Can tension become creative?

[crikkett]

sales of novels with vampires, shape shifters, werewolves and other paranormal creatures were “exploding,”

That is NOT sci-fi!

I'll be able to chat with one of the book ladies tomorrow, to ask which genres are selling.

[Searcher08]

Can tension become creative? I wondered if there was a video that embodied this in a meaningful way. After some reflection, I realised that there was one that captured the unique style of Analyst and Speculator exchange here at RI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpoki4wBwtA

[brekin]

brekin wrote:

You know Project Willow this is about me.

Oops, meant not about me.

Yes, exactly. Here are people generalizing petty personal issues onto the functioning of the board/community which, to resurrect a point 'cuda made yesterday, is kind of laughable considering there has been some actual dangerous activity conducted through the forum in the past and the potential remains. If we're going to do meta, then why don't we do meta that addresses stalking, harassment and serious trolling. All the teen hormone inspired pissing and pouting should be relegated to a bar or alleyway, and no, that's not an invite to my Saloon.

I'm actually sad I posted in this thread at all. I think I have creative block and seeking escape form the tasks of the day. Forget I said anything. Sigh.

This shouldn't be personal. In fact
clear definitions would create standards that are
not personal but more uniform and falling equally
on all.
The problem is nothing is clearly defined regarding
trolling, harassing, stalking, etc and this is where
confusion and frustration is reigning.

This is not a call for people to illustrate examples
using their favorite nemesis, but to create general standards
that can be referenced for the entire community.
Not a shit list but a bill of rights I guess.
what is troll like behavior or stalking, or harassing, etc
and that is where the problems are ocurring. Seems
like you are done with this

[Canadian_watcher]

Jack Riddler and I had a long exchange about God of all things a way back, and we came through it okay in spite of him completely not coming around to my religion (j/k). We didn't end up in fisticuffs nor did either of us really budge much (well I kinda entertained the notion that maybe I was an atheist after all.. )

Anyway my point is really for Eyeno -
don't let bastards like Jack Riddler get you down.
(j/k again. I love Jack like a suburban mom loves a Pampered Chef party )

you get my point though, right? Eyeno? you still here?

[Canadian_watcher]

:sun: Can tension become creative? I wondered if there was a video that embodied this in a meaningful way. After some reflection, I realised that there was one that captured the unique style of Analyst and Speculator exchange here at RI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpoki4wBwtA

or this one?

[Canadian_watcher]

brekin wrote:

You know Project Willow this is about me.

Oops, meant not about me.

Yes, exactly. Here are people generalizing petty personal issues onto the functioning of the board/community which, to resurrect a point 'cuda made yesterday, is kind of laughable considering there has been some actual dangerous activity conducted through the forum in the past and the potential remains. If we're going to do meta, then why don't we do meta that addresses stalking, harassment and serious trolling. All the teen hormone inspired pissing and pouting should be relegated to a bar or alleyway, and no, that's not an invite to my Saloon.

I'm actually sad I posted in this thread at all. I think I have creative block and seeking escape form the tasks of the day. Forget I said anything. Sigh.

This shouldn't be personal. In fact
clear definitions would create standards that are
not personal but more uniform and falling equally
on all.
The problem is nothing is clearly defined regarding
trolling, harassing, stalking, etc and this is where
confusion and frustration is reigning.

This is not a call for people to illustrate examples
using their favorite nemesis, but to create general standards
that can be referenced for the entire community.
Not a shit list but a bill of rights I guess.
what is troll like behavior or stalking, or harassing, etc
and that is where the problems are ocurring. Seems
like you are done with this

How's this for ONE SIGNIFICANT part of a definition of 'trolling':

If someone tells you to please drop it with them and you don't, you might be a troll.
If you persist three, four, five or more posts after being asked to drop it.. you are for SURE a troll.
If you move it to PMs and don't stop when asked you've moved beyond troll into something sure-fire bannable.

[Pierre d'Achoppement]

I might as well give my opinion sitting here since noone wants to discuss workout routines. Ive been following this board for a couple of years now, I think since 2007 & the one big change imo is when Jeff stopped blogging. If you look at the board now, to me, it's become an uberPC progressive leftwing almost if you will revolutionary board, where apparently 'work has to be done'. Now that's fine by me, and probably a respectable stance, in fact i'm all for pc in the workplace and so forth, and if i had to situate myself politically i'd put myself on the leftside as well (who cares right?) although I'd want it to be a conservative left, so basically traditional values and so forth but with more money going to the poor and less to the rich, and nationalistic, so basically national socialism, which sounds really bad, which i sometimes think was the whole point of wwii, it's a political taste that's almost not catered to anymore, anyho my point being that an uberpc leftleaning political board is all fine and dandy but also pretty BORING! There I've said it. Which brings me to another point, the endless copypastes of artciles of what's going on all over the world. If i wanted to be informed I'd read some quality papers and/or magazines. Because the mainstreamedia have long caught up and are basically printing the exact same stories that are being copypasted here. Who has the time or enegry to read all that stuff anyway, i sometimes doubt the ones pasting have. What attracted me in Jeffs blogs was their sensationalistic approach, cheap thrills, and like a good horrorstory to make you scared, there was always a link to our own daily lives, close at home you know? And sure from there Jeff made little side excursions to old egypt or maybe wartime germany, just like the omen starts somewhere in the desert right, only to come back in suburban life. So that interests me a lot more than 20 pages on the arabian spring, to be honest. And one of the posters that has stayed truest to that vision imo is 8bitagent, who at least writes some paragraphs of his own, always goes for the catchy storyline, interlaced with some weird trivia, some quotes taken out of all context and squeezed for all they're worth. Off course he's more of a standard gore like Wes Craven to Jeff's more subtle Lynchstyle, but the focus is the same. But now Jeff has become all seriouslike, believing in the greenhouse effect, women's rights, civil disobediance and all that crap, which for him personally is probably sane but makes for less fun. Id also like to say that i consider it bullying to package personal spite in a socalled constructive effort to adress some general problems, the moreso if such an effort seems reasonable. It's sort of like a psychological trick no? Not that i'm personally a big fan of 8282, i usually skip most of what he writes, as i do with most people. I(t's funny to me people who have to use an ignorefunction for that LOL...

[Canadian_watcher]

Gee, Pierre, how can we change so as to become more pleasing to you?

[brekin]

Crap, I'm posting from my Iphone and am not able to delete
the repetition in the last post and I wanted to bold that it would
be more productive again to draft what we think is appropriate and
not without using specific names or quotes. Really I think this
should be about guidelines moving forward. I honestly am not interested
in mine or other peoples past spats. Just think this may minimize future
spats.

[Searcher08]

:sun: Can tension become creative? I wondered if there was a video that embodied this in a meaningful way. After some reflection, I realised that there was one that captured the unique style of Analyst and Speculator exchange here at RI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpoki4wBwtA

or this one?

[brekin]

CanadianWatcher wrote:

How's this for ONE SIGNIFICANT part of a definition of 'trolling':

If someone tells you to please drop it with them and you don't, you might be a troll.
If you persist three, four, five or more posts after being asked to drop it.. you are for SURE a troll.
If you move it to PMs and don't stop when asked you've moved beyond troll into something sure-fire bannable.

I think that is a good start.
"to please drop it" meaning I guess to not engage
that person anymore in dialogue or refer to them in
posts? I'm thinking 2 requests should be sufficient
as long as the requester doesn't put anything
else in their requests. And tied to that 1st request
should be the understanding no PM's?
What do others think?
What else?

[Joe Hillshoist]

Wow this went off overnight...

[Joe Hillshoist]

Agreed. It was well put. Your an interesting fellow to start a conversation like this Joe. One minute you can go to the outer reaches of woo and entertain the wildest speculations and the next minute your rather mundanely rational and reasonable. It's the demonstration of the rational/reasonable part that lends credibility to your other speculations. It's sort of like how Picasso had to be an accomplished realist before he invented his style of cubism if he ever expected to taken seriously.

Cheers.

There's no point in speculating about the wildest crazy stuff if it doesn't have some relevance to actual life. And there's no point ignoring the wild crazy shit that happens in order to maintain whats obviously a flawed worldview. (By def its flawed if it can't account for wild crazy shit in a meaningful and useful way.)

Thats what I try to do, and if you think I am that's good to know.

This whole organite thing for example...

This is a can of worms here, but its always fought in such an either or way... now there is a fair amount of bullshit there, sure, and chucking mud pies at cell phone towers isn't actually something that makes a lot of sense.

But ...

Its art and craft, and ritual, and attached to a belief system that is quite far out. But not that far out really. Orgone or Chi or Prana or whatever ... something does (well certainly appears to) connect all life, and in fact all aspects of existence, whatever word you use for it and whatever hopes and fears you pin on it this stuff exists. If anything it measures direction not magnitude. We base our maths on magnitude, but ... well the I ching for example. Its a binary maths system designed to measure direct not magnitude. Ultimately.

Anyway back to organite.

Making this stuff is a ritual, well thats how it started out. And incorporating it into - well what are basically sculptures. They follow a particular form and structure, in the same way punk rock, charcoal drawing or ballet does. This allows the person who made it to interact with reality magically, after all creative acts and ritual are pretty important parts of any magical working.

This whole thing stems from a powerlessness in the face of massive environmental destruction. Whether thats enough to make magic work is another issue.

And of course building organite stuff and then pumping the atmosphere full of shite or dumping battery acid or the left over chemicals from your eckie kitchen in local catchments ... obviously those things do not fit together.

But ...

Anyway thats just an example of something worth speculating on that at first glance might seem a bit foolish.

[82_28]

82, barracuda was in no way calling you out in that post, nor do I think it necessitated a familiar diatribe about how you are the lord of your own manor and will always and forever call people dicks if you think they deserve it.

I am pretty sure I speak for everyone when I say that we know you feel that way.

So chill the fuck out, bro.

No offence CW, but lets all pander to the bully. Lets spend our time soothing his reactionary aggression, and avoiding questions or criticism or challenge, because they just trigger another torrent of profanity and abuse. Instead lets tip-toe around and make sure not to hurt his ego, or raise topics he doesn't want talked about. Because thats how we deal with bullies, isn't it?

well ... I kind of have a bit of a shorthand with 82, I think. But maybe I'm wrong. We'll see.

You do. It's all good. And come back eyeno.

And for the record, I have never bullied a soul in my life other than those who are doing the bullying -- that is how I see you as w2. Let's drop all of this and carry on. Do we agree with the charter of RI? Then do what your heart tells you to do and also do the "right thing".

Creativity can come from tension when all around can agree that the tension can be put aside and reflected on. However, this depends on others and the cultivation of allowable emotion. But if I or anyone is spoken down to around here for free speculation one more time, I am gone. Many of us have a history of worthy posts and as the dam builds up with current differences the past becomes forgotten by the sheer passage of time and the ebb and flow of members. There is no need for any of this. I've never lost a single friend in my life other than by natural attrition and the diverging paths of life. And with that, I am done with this thread.

[vanlose kid]

I might as well give my opinion sitting here since noone wants to discuss workout routines. Ive been following this board for a couple of years now, I think since 2007 & the one big change imo is when Jeff stopped blogging. If you look at the board now, to me, it's become an uberPC progressive leftwing almost if you will revolutionary board, where apparently 'work has to be done'. Now that's fine by me, and probably a respectable stance, in fact i'm all for pc in the workplace and so forth, and if i had to situate myself politically i'd put myself on the leftside as well (who cares right?) although I'd want it to be a conservative left, so basically traditional values and so forth but with more money going to the poor and less to the rich, and nationalistic, so basically national socialism, which sounds really bad, which i sometimes think was the whole point of wwii, it's a political taste that's almost not catered to anymore, anyho my point being that an uberpc leftleaning political board is all fine and dandy but also pretty BORING! There I've said it. Which brings me to another point, the endless copypastes of artciles of what's going on all over the world. If i wanted to be informed I'd read some quality papers and/or magazines. Because the mainstreamedia have long caught up and are basically printing the exact same stories that are being copypasted here. Who has the time or enegry to read all that stuff anyway, i sometimes doubt the ones pasting have. What attracted me in Jeffs blogs was their sensationalistic approach, cheap thrills, and like a good horrorstory to make you scared, there was always a link to our own daily lives, close at home you know? And sure from there Jeff made little side excursions to old egypt or maybe wartime germany, just like the omen starts somewhere in the desert right, only to come back in suburban life. So that interests me a lot more than 20 pages on the arabian spring, to be honest. And one of the posters that has stayed truest to that vision imo is 8bitagent, who at least writes some paragraphs of his own, always goes for the catchy storyline, interlaced with some weird trivia, some quotes taken out of all context and squeezed for all they're worth. Off course he's more of a standard gore like Wes Craven to Jeff's more subtle Lynchstyle, but the focus is the same. But now Jeff has become all seriouslike, believing in the greenhouse effect, women's rights, civil disobediance and all that crap, which for him personally is probably sane but makes for less fun. Id also like to say that i consider it bullying to package personal spite in a socalled constructive effort to adress some general problems, the moreso if such an effort seems reasonable. It's sort of like a psychological trick no? Not that i'm personally a big fan of 8282, i usually skip most of what he writes, as i do with most people. I(t's funny to me people who have to use an ignorefunction for that LOL...

the PC canard again? the golden age of the board too? double-whammy there.

no seriously. i disagree. me being one of the "endless copy pasters" (of articles which i do in fact read before i post, by the way) you probably won't read this so here's why.

1) i never thought the point of Jeff's blog and this board was entertainment, or fun. maybe i'm reading you wrong as to what you mean by "fun". maybe you mean "outside the ordinary". but that can be, in fact is, pretty serious. i'd like someone, anyone – maybe you even – to point me to one of Jeff's post which does not, in one way or another, have to do the the mundane "real" world or current events transpiring or transpired. i can't think of one honestly.

2) i can't see any disconnect between, say general misogyny and e.g. RA. as i see it one supports the other. so if you want to do away with RA one of the things you'd have to address, in my view, is misogyny. that's to say that i do see a point in discussing what you find terribly tedious, boring, run of the mill and "found on every other uberPC board on the internet" topic (a claim i furthermore find hardly credible, but we'll leave it at that for now).

3) take the DSK thread. following it through all 37 pages so far what it touches on from the "boring uberPC" stuff like misogyny, rape, global economics, to CIA/strategy of tension connections to pedophilia etc., it pretty much covers all aspects of what RI and especially Jeff is about. now you and others might be of the view that the mundane stuff is just boring and beneath you and everybody else does it, but in my view they are, i stress again, connected. part of RI deals with the how and why of media portrayal and dissemination of information so, in my view, actually posting an entire article as is, also works toward bringing that out. (sunny quoted Zappa on that once, somewhere).

4) in contrast to 8-bit, some of us don't think that "they" are hidden or metaphysical but actual and corporeal, i.e. they have names, addresses, jobs, faces, they're right there. none of "them" are hidden. it's all in plain view. the political stuff being done to the poor, powerless and unfortunate wherever they may be and which you find so utterly boring is being done by the same people who also work magic and ritual and RA etc. it's the same crew carrying out the same policies on all levels, so again, i don't see the disconnect that all you purists claim there is. is that too hard to grasp? or just too boring?

5) as for Jeff and blogging and this forum. i'm of the view, and i may be wrong, but i'm of the view that he blogs when he blogs. i think that when he started blogging things came to a head for him as they did for many of us. 911 was a watershed moment. this connects to what crickett said about things speeding up. Jeff said some time ago that he would be stepping back from blogging for a while. where that ends no one knows. things he's picked up since then might crystallize as they did first time around (because none of that i'm sure came out of the blue), then again they might not. he might just go off line and do something else entirely. which is all good. scrubbing the bathtub, mundane as it is, is a worthy chore. there's a world of the mundane that all of us have to deal with. that's rock bottom.

he'll do whatever he finds worth doing and that'll be that. until then, i think, this board works for him in some way. it works for many of us in many ways. dogmatic purity isn't what's called for.

as for the analyst/speculator point brought up by Searcher08. i'd say he's right. to a certain extent. only i don't think that there are any pure analysts or pure speculators on this board or anywhere else for that matter. we're all both and tend towards one or the other at different times re different topics etc.

whether tension can become creative? sure. if you're willing to put your stuff out there with the understanding that you might get it pulled to pieces to see what stands and what doesn't. as long as the exchange is civil it shouldn't be a problem. same goes for everyone.

i'm off to post more uberPC boring stuff on sandn*r's rasing a ruckus in arabia and economics killing the trash and rabble until my account gets shut down. have fun. enjoy the coming national socialist future.

*