Grr! Industrial Materialists Fall To Irritating Jesus Freak!

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Re: Grr! Industrial Materialists Fall To Irritating Jesus Fr

Postby Allegro » Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:29 am

.
Links are mine; more in the original.

— Presently, I presume Family Research Council beds with The Family.

Down in Polls, Santorum Gets Big Endorsement
Jan 15, 2012, Randy LoBasso, philadelphiaweekly.com wrote:With the inevitable on the horizon, conservative action groups are still looking for a viable alternative to Republican presidential frontrunner Mitt Romney. So this weekend, the Family Research Council held a two-day meeting in Brenham, Texas, in which they balloted for a new candidate. After much consideration, they came up with former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum, whose numbers are down to single-digits in SC, according to recent polls.

“After three rounds of balloting this morning, and vigorous and passionate discussion, there emerged a strong consensus around Rick Santorum as the preferred candidate for this group,” the group’s leader, Tony Perkins, said in a conference call yesterday.

All presidential campaigns, save Jon Huntsman, participated in the event, sending representatives to make the case as to why their guy should be the one represented by the Research Council. Nate Silver at FiveThirtyEight notes the endorsement may “resuscitate” Santorum in the southern state.

FRC head Tony Perkins has in the past stated “the research is overwhelming that homosexuality poses a danger to children.” The Southern Poverty Law Center lists the FRC as a “hate group,” noting it has gone out of its way to use studies to link gay men to pedophilia.

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Re: Grr! Industrial Materialists Fall To Irritating Jesus Fr

Postby Allegro » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:52 am

.
While prepping that ^^ post, I read the following ThinkProgress article. The Kansas House Speaker is another Jesus freak, and, honestly, Jesus freaks are not funny to me. I believe their words are to be taken seriously, and perhaps their words should not be described with the word meme or with the flippant phrase tongue-in-cheek, for some Christian evangelicals or fundamentalists or dominionists wish to be bold in their proclamations that end with “in the name of Jesus,” spoken or not. This essay I think applies context for Psalm 109, the primary reference in what follows.

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Kansas GOP House Speaker ‘Prays’ That Obama’s ‘Children Be Fatherless And His Wife A Widow’
— Think Progress | Marie Diamond | Jan 13, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    ThinkProgress reported last week that Kansas House Speaker Mike O’Neal (R) was forced to apologize to First Lady Michelle Obama after forwarding an email to fellow lawmakers that called her “Mrs. YoMama” and compared her to the Grinch.

    Earlier that same week, the Lawrence Journal-World was sent another email that O’Neal had forwarded to House Republicans that referred to President Obama and a Bible verse that says “Let his days be few” and calls for his children to be without a father and his wife to be widowed.

    Nick Sementelli at Faith in Public Life notes that Psalm 109, which is a prayer for the death of a leader, became a popular conservative meme after Obama’s election. The “tongue-in-cheek” prayer for the president was seen on bumper stickers. The relevant part of the psalm reads:

      Let his days be few; and let another take his office.

      May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow.

      May his children be wandering beggars; may they be driven from their ruined homes.

      May a creditor seize all he has; may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.

      May no one extend kindness to him or take pity on his fatherless children.

    O’Neal forwarded the prayer with his own message: “At last — I can honestly voice a Biblical prayer for our president! Look it up — it is word for word! Let us all bow our heads and pray. Brothers and Sisters, can I get an AMEN? AMEN!!!!!!”

    O’Neal’s office refuses to apologize for the email, insisting that the message was only referring to Obama’s days in office. Sementelli notes the response of a Rockford Register Star columnist who explains why this excuse won’t do.

    Speaking to a reader he writes, “You say that verse 8 of Psalm 109, as applied to President Obama, does not suggest a wish for his death. But the first five words of verse 8 are: ‘Let his days be few.’ And verse 9 says: ‘Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.’…You suggest yourself that scripture should not be ‘taken out of context.’ Well, the context of Psalm 109 is a wish for someone’s death.”
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Re: Grr! Industrial Materialists Fall To Irritating Jesus Fr

Postby Allegro » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:26 am

.
What might have happened during Family
Research Council's recent meeting in Texas?

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Rick Santorum's evangelical endorsement | Was the voting rigged?
— several links in original
on January 17, 2012, at 12:41 PM, The Week wrote:— Religious conservatives get together hoping to form a united front against the moderate Mitt Romney — and instead, wind up embroiled in a "civil war"

Rick Santorum got a potentially important boost over the weekend when a prominent group of evangelical Christian leaders voted to join ranks and back the ex-senator's presidential campaign. But Santorum might not benefit as much as he would like. The endorsement has become tainted by controversy, with religious conservatives who support Newt Gingrich charging that the vote was rigged. So instead of presenting a united front, says Ralph Z. Hallow in The Washington Times, the meeting touched off a what some evangelicals are calling a "civil war." Here's what you need to know:

What was this gathering all about?
After Mitt Romney swept Iowa and New Hampshire, a group of more than 100 influential evangelical leaders got together for an emergency meeting in Texas to discuss the race for the Republican presidential nomination. According to Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, a "supermajority" decided to back Santorum, a staunchly anti-abortion Catholic, in the hope that a unified evangelical vote could help derail Romney and result in the nomination of a more reliable conservative.

So why the controversy?
Several religious conservatives who attended the meeting said there was no consensus to back Santorum. One participant — Bush administration evangelical-outreach official Doug Wead, a Ron Paul supporter — said the event was nothing more than a pro-Santorum stunt. "The organizer was for Santorum, the person who created the invitation list was for Santorum, the emcee was for Santorum," Wead said. Gingrich supporters said the vote had been "manipulated," and one participant even accused Santorum supporters of ballot stuffing.

Do Gingrich's supporters have a legitimate complaint?
"This wasn't a clean sweep by Santorum," says David Brody at CBN.com. "Gingrich clearly had evangelical support in the room," so his backers have every right to point out that evangelical leaders aren't endorsing Santorum with one voice. It doesn't matter which candidate evangelicals back anyway, says Steve Benen at Washington Monthly. This emergency anti-Romney scheming is "almost certainly too late to make a difference." And now, with all this in-fighting, evangelicals are probably giving a boost to Romney, rather than Santorum.

Sources: CBN.com, NY Times, Wash. Monthly, Wash. Times
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Re: Grr! Industrial Materialists Fall To Irritating Jesus Fr

Postby Allegro » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:25 pm

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The site, Santorum Exposed, contains a lot of quotes, and I wish I knew the appropriate descriptor other than bizarre or weird wrt to the quotes. Moreover, as Santorum speaks, I feel an underlying inauthenticity perhaps vouchsafed in the privileged must-suffer-for-Jesus syndrome. The site tags Santorum as a loser. And I ask, ‘for whom?’

Plenty of links in original text.

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Santorum | On the Record

Rick Santorum has a long, colorful history of making bizarre, inflammatory and just plain ridiculous statements about all sorts of important issues. Here is a rundown of some of Rick’s “greatest hits.”

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    “…everything I’ve read shows that we would not have gotten this information as to who this man was if it had not been gotten information from people who were subject to enhanced interrogation. And so this idea that we didn’t ask that question while Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was being waterboarded, he [John McCain] doesn’t understand how enhanced interrogation works. I mean, you break somebody, and after they’re broken, they become cooperative. And that’s when we got this information. And one thing led to another, and led to another, and that’s how we ended up with bin Laden.”

    — Rick Santorum saying that John McCain, who was tortured as a prisoner of war, doesn’t understand “enhanced interrogation”, 5/17/11

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    “A lesbian woman came up to me and said, ‘why are you denying me my right?’ I said, ‘well, because it’s not a right.’ It’s a privilege that society recognizes because society sees intrinsic value to that relationship over any other relationship.”

    — Rick Santorum on gay adoption, 5/3/11

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    “I don’t think it works. I think it’s harmful to women, I think it’s harmful to our society to have a society that says that sex outside of marriage is something that should be encouraged or tolerated, particularly among the young. I think it has, as we’ve seen, very harmful long-term consequences for society. So birth control to me enables that and I don’t think it’s a healthy thing for our country.”

    — Saying that birth control is harmful to women, society and our country. CN8′s “Nitebeat with Barry Nolan”, July 28, 2005. Click here to watch the video. [The vid up there.]

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    “Is anyone saying same-sex couples can’t love each other? I love my children. I love my friends, my brother. Heck, I even love my mother-in-law. Should we call these relationships marriage, too?”

    — Rick Santorum comparing his love for his mother-in-law to the love that same-sex couples share, 5/22/2008

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    “In this case, what we’re talking about, basically, is priests who were having sexual relations with post-pubescent men. We’re not talking about priests with 3-year-olds, or 5-year-olds. We’re talking about a basic homosexual relationship. Which, again, according to the world view sense is a perfectly fine relationship as long as it’s consensual between people. If you view the world that way, and you say that’s fine, you would assume that you would see more of it.”

    — Regarding Catholic Priests who molested children.

    Associated Press interview, April 2003.

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    “It is startling that those in the media and academia appear most disturbed by this aberrant behavior, since they have zealously promoted moral relativism by sanctioning “private” moral matters such as alternative lifestyles. Priests, like all of us, are affected by culture. When the culture is sick, every element in it becomes infected. While it is no excuse for this scandal, it is no surprise that Boston, a seat of academic, political and cultural liberalism in America, lies at the center of the storm.”

    — From Fishers of Men, an opinion piece about child molestation scandals involving Catholic Priests.

    Catholic Online, July 12, 2002.
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Re: Grr! Industrial Materialists Fall To Irritating Jesus Fr

Postby Laodicean » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:09 am

Project Willow wrote:Image

Image

Image

The Stranger, adolescence enshrined.


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Re: Grr! Industrial Materialists Fall To Irritating Jesus Fr

Postby Allegro » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:53 am

.
Santorum to sick kid:
Don’t complain about $1 million drug costs
— The Raw Story | By David Edwards | Thurs, Feb 2, 2012 10:32 EST

    Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum told the mother of a child with a rare genetic disorder on Tuesday that she shouldn’t have a problem paying $1 million a year for drugs because Apple’s iPad can cost around $900.

    Speaking to more than 400 people at Woodland Park, Colorado, the former Pennsylvania senator said that demand should set prices for drugs.

    “People have no problem paying $900 for an iPad,” the candidate explained. “But paying $900 for a drug they have a problem with — it keeps you alive. Why? Because you’ve been conditioned to think health care is something you can get without having to pay for it.”

    The mother replied that she could not afford her son’s medication, Abilify, which can cost as much as $1 million a year without health insurance
    .

    “Look, I want your son and everybody to have the opportunity to stay alive on much-needed drugs,” Santorum insisted. “But the bottom line is, we have to give companies the incentive to make those drugs. And if they don’t have the incentive to make those drugs, your son won’t be alive and lots of other people in this country won’t be alive.”

    “He’s alive today because drug companies provide care,” the candidate continued. “And if they didn’t think they could make money providing that drug, that drug wouldn’t be here. I sympathize with these compassionate cases. … I want your son to stay alive on much-needed drugs. Fact is, we need companies to have incentives to make drugs. If they don’t have incentives, they won’t make those drugs. We either believe in markets or we don’t.”

    Watch this video from ABC News, broadcast Feb. 1, 2012.
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Re: Grr! Industrial Materialists Fall To Irritating Jesus Fr

Postby Nordic » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:24 am

Image
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Industrial Materialists Irritating Jesus Freak!

Postby Allegro » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:29 am



REFER David Vitter | Mansplaining thread

Vitter research cross posted here.
05FEB12, Allegro wrote:REFER David Vitter in the bottom paragraph in the above article.

What's to know about David Vitter, a Roman Catholic?

    Louisiana Family Forum earmark: In September, 2007, Vitter earmarked $100,000 in federal money for a Christian group, the Louisiana Family Forum, known for challenging evolution by means of "teaching the controversy" which promotes intelligent design. According to Vitter, the earmark was "to develop a plan to promote better science education". Though the Louisiana Family Forum is largely forbidden from political activity due to its tax-exempt status, The Times-Picayune alleged the group had close ties with Vitter. However, they have criticized Vitter for his support of Rudy Giuliani.

    On October 17, 2007, the liberal organization People For the American Way, along with several other groups asked the Senate to remove the earmark. Vitter later withdrew it.

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Louisiana Family Forum

Louisiana Family Forum (LFF) is a social conservative non-profit advocacy group based in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. The organization supports Louisiana's covenant marriage law and opposes abortion and same-sex marriage. The group's stated mission is to "persuasively present biblical principles in the centers of influence on issues affecting the family through research, communication and networking." According to its website, the group "maintains a close working relationship with Focus on the Family and Family Research Council" and is part of a network of individual state Family Policy Councils.

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Focus on the Family

Focus on the Family (FOTF, or FotF) is an American evangelical Christian tax-exempt non-profit organization founded in 1977 by psychologist James Dobson, and is based in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Focus on the Family is one of a number of evangelical parachurch organizations that rose to prominence in the 1980s. A component of the American Christian right, it is active in promoting interdenominational work toward its views on social conservative public policy. Focus on the Family is also currently the primary sponsor for Phil Vischer's JellyTelly.

Focus on the Family's stated mission is "nurturing and defending the God-ordained institution of the family and promoting biblical truths worldwide." Some of the core promotional activities of the organization include a daily radio broadcast by Dobson and his colleagues, providing free resources and family counseling according to Focus on the Family views, and publishing a variety of magazines, videos, and audio recordings. The organization also produces specialized programs for targeted audiences, such as Adventures in Odyssey for children, dramas, and Family Minute with James Dobson. Both Focus on the Family and Adventures in Odyssey are broadcast on Trans World Radio in the UK.

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Family Research Council

The Family Research Council (FRC) is a conservative or right-wing Christian group and lobbying organization formed in the United States in 1981 by James Dobson. It was fully incorporated in 1983. In the late 1980s, FRC officially became a division of Dobson's main organization, Focus on the Family, but after an administrative separation, FRC officially became an independent entity in 1992. The function of FRC is to promote what it considers to be traditional family values, by advocating and lobbying for socially conservative policies. It advocates against LGBT rights, abortion, divorce, embryonic stem-cell research, the theory that global warming is the result of human activity, and pornography. The FRC is affiliated with a 501(c)(4) lobbying PAC known as FRC Action. Tony Perkins is the current president of FRC. The organization has been involved in the politics of social policy, notably in controversy concerning its position on homosexuality.

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REFERENCES ARE PERIODICALLY ADDED: The Prosperity Gospel; Prosperity Theology | White Savior Industrial Complex | The Joshua Project | 1040 Window | Campus Crusade for Christ | Focus on the Family | Family Research Council | The Family | Opus Dei | Dominion Theology | Reconstructionism | Christian Fundamentalism | Christian Dispensationalism | Christian Evangelism | Pentecostalism | Muscular Christianity

National Association of Evangelicals | World Vision International | Traditional Values Coalition | International Center for Religion & Diplomacy | International Christian Concern | National Christian Foundation | Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability | ONE Campaign | American Family Association
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Re: Grr! Industrial Materialists Fall To Irritating Jesus Fr

Postby Allegro » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:21 am

Allegro wrote:...particularly the eight people on the Congressional Science Committee listed as Republicans. I’ll research later to find which of those committee members have backgrounds in Christian fundamentalism. There will likely be no surprise in the final count.
To see the extent for which the committee’s impact has on science, refer United States House Committee on Science, Space and Technology.

Apparently, a person on the committee doesn’t have to have any sort of background in science according to each committee member’s Wiki page perused, but being a Christian fundamentalist or associating with those who are is a giant step in the right direction when one wishes a place on the committee. Oh, and friendliness to the Koch brothers’ climate lobbying efforts seemingly helps, too.

Follows are points of interest gleaned from members’ Wiki pages.

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Todd Akin, Missouri | Presbyterian Church in America (evangelical)
    Akin supporters have been or are Family Research Council, American Family Association, and Mike Huckabee (a Southern Baptist).
    All six of Akin’s children were home schooled.

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Sandy Adams, Florida | Episcopalian
    In the 2009 Republican primary, she was supported by former Alaska Governor and 2008 vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin.

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Ralph Hall, Texas | Methodist
    Tea Party caucus

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(Jim) Sensenbrenner, Wisconsin | Episcopalian, Anglican Catholic
    Introduced the USA PATRIOT Act; authored the Real ID Act.
    A global warming denier.

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Dana Rohrabacher, California | Baptist
A climate change denier.

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Paul Broun, Georgia | Southern Baptist
    His fundamentalist religious views inform his politics. In May 2009, Broun proposed failed legislation that would have proclaimed 2010 “The Year Of The Bible”.
    Tea Party caucus. A creationist.

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Mo Brooks, Alabama | non-denominational Christian
    Brooks joined the LDS Church in 1978, and though he still attends Mormon services with his wife, he considers himself a non-denominational Christian.
    A global warming denier.

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Lamar Smith, Texas | Christian Science
    Tea Party caucus

_________________
REFERENCES ARE PERIODICALLY ADDED: The Prosperity Gospel; Prosperity Theology | White Savior Industrial Complex | The Joshua Project | 1040 Window | Campus Crusade for Christ | Focus on the Family | Family Research Council | The Family | Opus Dei | Dominion Theology | Reconstructionism | Christian Fundamentalism | Christian Dispensationalism | Christian Evangelism | Pentecostalism | Muscular Christianity

National Association of Evangelicals | World Vision International | Traditional Values Coalition | International Center for Religion & Diplomacy | International Christian Concern | National Christian Foundation | Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability | ONE Campaign | American Family Association


POST 2627
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Re: Grr! Industrial Materialists Fall To Irritating Jesus Fr

Postby Allegro » Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:55 am



Highlights mine. See links in original.

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Strange bedfellows at Christian confab
One of the scheduled speakers once said that Jews must accept Christ

Salon | By Jillian Rayfield | Thursday, 13SEP12 06:05 PM CDT

    The annual Values Voter Summit is blessed with a diverse array of opinion from the far-right to the ultra-right. It’s not always as cozy as it sounds.

Image
^ House Majority Leader Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va., center.
(Credit: AP Photo/Evan Vucci)
    This year’s speakers will include both Jewish House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.), and a retired Colonel who once said that Christians should be working to get Jews to accept Jesus. In 2009, [Lieutenant General William G.] Boykin said that it “really bothers” him when pastors say that “the Jews don’t have to come to know Jesus, they’re under the old covenant. And that’s destroying the efforts of the Messianic Rabbis, and other Messianic Jews that are trying to lead their brothers and sisters to Christ.” Boykin is apparently referring to a little known tradition that observes elements of Judaism, but also believes in Jesus as a savior. Cantor didn’t return a request for comment.


^ Jews Must Be Converted:
William G. Boykin, Vice
President, Family Research
Council
    Boykin, who scored a meeting with Mitt Romney in August, was publicly rebuked by President George W. Bush in 2003 for anti-Muslim rhetoric – like comments that the war against Islamic extremists is a war of Christianity against Satan, or that there should be “no mosques in America. Islam is a totalitarian way of life.”

    The immortal moment from last year’s Summit involved another inter-religious spat when Mitt Romney, speaking ahead of the American Family Association’s Bryan Fischer, said: “We should remember that decency and civility are values too. One of the speakers who will follow me today, has crossed that line. Poisonous language does not advance our cause.” Fischer, who’s known for hating both grizzly bears and Muslims, and who had previously said that Mormons shouldn’t have First Amendment rights, essentially told Mitt to go to Hell: The next president, he said, “needs to be a main of sincere, authentic, genuine Christian faith.”

    With Romney leading the ticket this year, TPM reports that Fischer will be attending the Summit this year but won’t have a speaking slot.

    Via Right Wing Watch.

    Jillian Rayfield is an Assistant News Editor for Salon, focusing on politics. Follow her on Twitter at @jillrayfield or email her at jrayfield@salon.com.

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REFERENCES ARE PERIODICALLY ADDED: The Prosperity Gospel; Prosperity Theology | White Savior Industrial Complex | The Joshua Project | 1040 Window | Campus Crusade for Christ | Focus on the Family | American Family Association | Family Research Council | The Family | Opus Dei | Dominion Theology | Reconstructionism | Christian Fundamentalism | Christian Dispensationalism | Christian Evangelism | Pentecostalism | Muscular Christianity

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Re: Grr! Industrial Materialists Fall To Irritating Jesus Fr

Postby Allegro » Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:46 pm

Image
^ Paul Broun | IMAGE CREDIT
BADASTRONOMY
Refer this upthread post and note Paul Broun, who’s a member of the United States House Committee on Science, Space and Technology and a Southern Baptist. From research in RI’s archives, apparently, being a Southern Baptist and an evangelical highlighted with touches of fundamentalism and reconstructionism is, these days, no longer necessarily contradictory; believing those ideas, and preaching them “in the name and power of Jesus Christ” while holding membership on a U.S. committee of science IS contradictory.

The writer of the following article, Mr. Benjy Sarlin, wrote Broun has his B.S. in chemistry. If that’s true, then why would that chemistry degree not be listed on Broun’s wiki page? From whom did Sarlin or his editor receive that information? Oops, I found it. His chemistry degree is listed on Roll Call.

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Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA): Evolution, Big Bang ‘Lies Straight From The Pit Of Hell’
On 05OCT12, TPM, Benjy Sarlin wrote:Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA) tore into scientists as tools of the devil in a speech at the Liberty Baptist Church Sportsman’s Banquet last month.

“All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and the Big Bang Theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of Hell,” Broun said. “And it’s lies to try to keep me and all the folks who were taught that from understanding that they need a savior.”

According to Broun, the scientific plot was primarily concerned with hiding the true age of the Earth. Broun serves on the House Science Committee, which came under scrutiny recently after another one of its Republican members, Rep. Todd Akin (R-MO), suggested that victims of “legitimate rape” have unnamed biological defenses against pregnancy.

“You see, there are a lot of scientific data that I’ve found out as a scientist that actually show that this is really a young Earth,” he said. “I don’t believe that the Earth’s but about 9,000 years old. I believe it was created in six days as we know them. That’s what the Bible says.”

Broun — a physician, with an M.D. and a B.S. in chemistry — is generally considered to be among the most conservative members of Congress, if not the most. He drew national attention in 2010 for saying he did not know if President Obama was an American citizen.

In his speech, a clip of which was provided to TPM by The Bridge Project, a non-profit progressive tracker, Broun credited his literal Biblical interpretation with driving his approach to government.

The full 47-minute speech, posted by the Liberty Baptist Church, can be found here.

“What I’ve come to learn is that it’s the manufacturer’s handbook, is what I call it,” he said. “It teaches us how to run our lives individually, how to run our families, how to run our churches. But it teaches us how to run all of public policy and everything in society. And that’s the reason as your congressman I hold the holy Bible as being the major directions to me of how I vote in Washington, D.C., and I’ll continue to do that.”

TPM reached out to a spokeswoman for Broun, but did not immediately receive a response.
In YOUTUBE NOTES, you’ll find the following transcription as an excerpt from Rep. Paul Broun’s (R-GA) remarks at the Liberty Baptist Church Sportsman’s Banquet on September 27, 2012, in Hartwell, Georgia:

    “God’s word is true. I’ve come to understand that. All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and the Big Bang Theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of Hell. And it’s lies to try to keep me and all the folks who were taught that from understanding that they need a savior. You see, there are a lot of scientific data that I’ve found out as a scientist that actually show that this is really a young Earth. I don’t believe that the Earth’s but about 9,000 years old. I believe it was created in six days as we know them. That’s what the Bible says.

    “And what I’ve come to learn is that it’s the manufacturer’s handbook, is what I call it. It teaches us how to run our lives individually, how to run our families, how to run our churches. But it teaches us how to run all of public policy and everything in society. And that’s the reason as your congressman I hold the Holy Bible as being the major directions to me of how I vote in Washington, D.C., and I’ll continue to do that.”

_________________
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Re: Grr! Industrial Materialists Fall To Irritating Jesus Fr

Postby Allegro » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:56 pm

I’m not sure I would’ve claimed that Marco Rubio was a Jesus freak until his name was linked with Ralph Reed in this article: GOP Congressmen Line-Up To Attend Ralph Reed’s Conference posted at Right Wing Watch, submitted by Brian Tashman on 08APR11.

For further reference: Sen. Marco Rubio’s religious journey: Catholic to Mormon to Catholic to Baptist and Catholic posted at CNN 23FEB12.

Links in Plait’s original.

_________________
Why Doesn’t Florida Senator Marco Rubio Know How Old the Earth Is?
Phil Plait | Bad Astronomy at Slate, 20NOV12

    The Earth is 4.54 billion years old.Image
    ^ Image credit: NASA


    We know this because science works. A large number of independent fields of science show that the Earth is terribly old, and all these different scientific areas—highly successful in their own rights—converge on the same age of the Earth. This number is very well known, very well understood, and the process behind its determination is a foundational assumption across all fields of science.

    So why does U.S. Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) say he doesn’t know how old the Earth is?

    In an interview published by GQ magazine, reporter Michael Hainey asks the senator simply, “How old do you think the Earth is?” The answer too should be simple. Rubio’s reply, however is anything but:

      I’m not a scientist, man. I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that’s a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States. I think the age of the universe has zero to do with how our economy is going to grow. I’m not a scientist. I don’t think I’m qualified to answer a question like that. At the end of the day, I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all. I think parents should be able to teach their kids what their faith says, what science says. Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I’m not sure we’ll ever be able to answer that. It’s one of the great mysteries.

    Actually, it’s not a great mystery. It used to be ... a century ago. I am a scientist, and I can tell you that nowadays—thanks to science—we know the age to amazing accuracy. The age of the Earth is 4.54 billion years … plus or minus 50 million years. That’s a number known to an accuracy of 99 percent, which is pretty dang good.

    Sen. Rubio’s answer, however, is so confused and error-riddled its difficult to know where to start.

    Image
    ^ Senator Marco Rubio (R-Fla).
    Image credit: Getty images
    Right off the bat, he mentions the Bible in terms of the Earth’s age several times, including the “seven days” part. This is not necessarily an indication he’s a young-Earth creationist—that is, he thinks the Earth is ten thousand years old or less—but it does indicate some pretty fuzzy thinking on his part, and it makes me think he supports religious findings over scientific ones (or is trying to not tick off an electorate who does). The fact that he says theologians argue over interpreting the biblical age of the Earth, and doesn’t mention that scientists know the actual number, is distressing to say the least.

    When he does mention science, he downplays it. About the age of the Earth, he says, “I’m not sure we’ll ever be able to answer that.” In fact, the age of the Earth and the solar system is one of the unifying concepts of science specifically mentioned in the U.S. National Education Standards—an educator-created list of concepts which all students should know upon graduating high school.

    Did I mention that Sen. Rubio sits on the Senate Commerce, Science, and Transportation Committee?

    Which makes his equivocation all the more tragic. I know that a large fraction of the people in the United States think the Earth is less than 10,000 years old. These people are wrong, and provably so, but of course they have the right to believe anything they want. But when someone believes in something that is provably false, and then they act on this belief … that’s when it gets very, very dangerous.

    I got a chill when I read Rubio’s statements, “I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States. I think the age of the universe has zero to do with how our economy is going to grow.”

    Perhaps Senator Rubio is unaware that science—and its sisters engineering and technology— are actually the very foundation of our country’s economy? All of our industry, all of our technology, everything that keeps our country functioning at all can be traced back to scientific research and a scientific understanding of the Universe.

    Cell phones, computers, cars, machinery, medicine, the Internet, manufacturing, communication, agriculture, transportation, on and on … all of these industries rely on science to work. Without basic research none of these would exist.

    And all of science points to the age of the Earth being much, much older than Senator Rubio intimates. Astronomy, biology, relativity, chemistry, physics, anatomy, sociology, linguistics, cosmology, anthropology, evolutionary science, and especially radiometric dating of rocks all indicate the Universe, and our home planet Earth, are far older than any claims of a few thousand years. The overwhelming consensus is that the Earth is billions of years old.* And all of these sciences are the basis of the technology that is our country’s life blood.

    Senator Rubio is exactly and precisely wrong. Science, and how it tells us the age of the Earth, has everything to do to do with how our economy will grow. By teaching our kids actual science, we can guarantee the future of this country and its economic growth. By hiding it from them, by equivocating about it with them, by providing false balance between reality and wishful thinking, what we guarantee is a future workforce that can’t distinguish between what’s real and what isn’t.

    That’s a formula for failure. And you don’t need to be a scientist to see that.

    Tip o’ the obliquity to Talking Points Memo via Fark.com

    Correction, Nov. 19, 2012: This article originally suggested that sociology, linguistics, anthropology, and other sciences indicate that the Earth is billions of years old. Those sciences establish that Earth is much more than a few thousand years old, but other sciences established the precise age of the Earth.

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Re: Grr! Industrial Materialists Fall To Irritating Jesus Fr

Postby Allegro » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:04 pm

Refer this post of Plait’s previous article.

See images and links in original.

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Marco Rubio Backtracks a Bit on the Age of the Earth | Phil Plait
Bad Astronomy | Monday, 17DEC12

    In November, in an interview in GQ magazine, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) made an interesting statement about the age of the Earth:

      I’m not a scientist, man. I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that’s a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States. I think the age of the universe has zero to do with how our economy is going to grow. I’m not a scientist. I don’t think I’m qualified to answer a question like that. At the end of the day, I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all. I think parents should be able to teach their kids what their faith says, what science says. Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I’m not sure we’ll ever be able to answer that. It’s one of the great mysteries.

    I took great exception to this, as did many other people. The two points I wanted to make were that, from science, we do in fact know the age of the Earth to great precision, and that science is extremely important to our economic growth. Rubio dismissed a lot of science in his short statement.

    However, now he appears to be backtracking. In a second interview, he attempted to clear things up:



    The key statement he makes in this interview is: “The answer I gave was actually trying to make the same point the President made a few years ago, and that is there is no scientific debate on the age of the Earth. It’s established it pretty definitively; it’s four and half billion—at least four and half billion years old. […] I was referring to the theological debate.”

    He then goes on to say that religious people, including himself, can accept the scientific result and still reconcile it with their personal faith.

    Let me be clear: The scientific result is correct. If you believe the Earth is only a few thousand years old, you have that right, but you are incorrect. However, I do think that if people can reconcile their religious beliefs with what we know to be true, then more power to them! Seriously, that’s great. We know a huge amount of information about the Universe due to our scientific investigations over the centuries, and we’re now quite adept at unveiling its secrets. People should be trying to fold that into their own beliefs.

    However, I still take exception to Rubio’s comments. Note the last two lines from his first interview, saying we’ll never know the true age of the Earth, and it’s one of the great mysteries. That says a lot to me, because it’s not a great mystery. It’s actually pretty well known through various different scientific processes. Rubio is now saying he was caught off-guard by the question and was referring only to the theological debate, not the scientific one. But it’s telling that for a scientific question, he automatically went to a religious answer, and not a scientific one.

    Rubio’s point about agreeing with Obama is interesting. At a forum on religious matters before becoming president, Obama was asked a similar question, and gave a similar—but not identical—answer (and truth be told, I feel the same way about the religious parts of his answer as I do Rubio’s). But if you read the transcripts of that interview to get the context, you’ll find Obama also goes on to give a lot of credence to science, saying for example he thinks evolution is true and global warming is real, and people should try to reconcile their own beliefs to those realities. Since that time he has been clear that scientists need to be able to investigate the world “free from manipulation and coercion” and has generally supported science.

    Note, importantly, that Obama was asked this question in a religious setting, yet still supported science—he went out of his way to do so. When Rubio was asked the same question in a secular setting, he turned to religion. While some people (including Slate’s own Daniel Engber) see an equivalence between the two answers, the context shows there is in reality a huge gulf between them.

    It’s important to note that in the second interview, Rubio also says that science should be taught in school and people should still be free to believe what they want. I agree, but this is a very, very thorny issues, and despite the First Amendment to the Constitution being clear about it, a lot of religious politicians want to mandate the teaching of religious belief as fact in the public schools. I want a leader for this country who turns to science first in a situation like that.

    I am somewhat mollified by Rubio’s follow-up comments, but given his initial statement, I will continue to watch him with a very skeptical eye. Given that he is one of the media darlings for the Republican nomination for the 2016 Presidential race, we all should watch him with a skeptical eye.
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