America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby American Dream » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:48 pm

OK- things are starting to become a bit more clear now...


Neo-Confederate
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Neo-Confederate is a term used by some academics and political activists to describe the views of various groups and individuals who have a positive belief system concerning the historical experience of the Confederate States of America, the Southern secession, and the Southern United States.



Summary of neo-Confederate beliefs

Honor of the Confederacy and its veterans — Much of the Neo-Confederate movement is concerned with giving the proper due honor to the Confederacy itself, to the veterans of the Confederacy and Confederate veterans' cemeteries, to the various flags of the Confederacy, and to cultural Southern identity.[1]

Economics — neo-Confederates usually advocate a free market economy which engages in significantly less taxation than currently found in the United States, and which does not revolve around fiat currencies such as the United States Dollar.[2]

History — many neo-Confederates are openly critical of the presidency of Abraham Lincoln to varied degrees, and of the history of Reconstruction. Various authors have written critiques of Lincoln and the Union. Slavery is almost never defended, but it is usually denied as a primary cause of the American Civil War. Critics often accuse Neo-Confederates of "revisionism" and of acting as "apologists".[3]

Culture — many neo-Confederates promote an unabashed Christian culture. They support, for example, public displays of Christianity, such as "Ten Commandments" monuments and displays of the Christian cross.[4] Almost all Neo-Confederates strongly support the right to keep and bear arms, present in both the United States Constitution and the Confederate States Constitution. Generally they oppose unmitigated illegal immigration of foreign nationals into Southern states.[5] Some Neo-Confederates view the Civil War as a conflict between a secular North and a Christian South.[6] Certain Neo-Confederates believe in a Celtic identity theory for residents of the South, with residents of the North being mostly English.[7]

Secession — many neo-Confederates openly advocate the resecession of the Southern states and territories which comprised the old Confederate States of America. The League of the South, for example, promotes the "independence of the Southern people" from the "American empire".[2] Most neo-Confederate groups do not seek violent revolution, but rather an orderly separation, such as was done in the division of Czechoslovakia.[citation needed] Many Neo-Confederate groups have prepared for what they view as a possible collapse of the federal United States into its 50 separate states, much like the Soviet Union collapsed, and believe the Confederacy can be resurrected at that time.

The Civil Rights Movement — some neo-Confederates adopt a paleoconservative or libertarian view of the Civil Rights Movement.[8]


Though outsiders often see neo-Confederacy as "rebellion", the Neo-Confederates themselves generally believe that the federal government of the United States has strayed from its original intent, and that the Confederate States of America was both the lawful and logical successor of the original government which formed out of the American Revolution.[citation needed]

The term "neo-Confederate" is considered by many people a pejorative political epithet and its application to specific groups and individuals has caused controversy. Not everyone, however, avoids the term. Al Benson, Jr., head of the former Southern Independence Party declares, "I am part of what Morris Dees calls the 'Neo-Confederate Movement'".


Neo-confederates and libertarianism

Historian Daniel Feller asserts that libertarian authors Thomas DiLorenzo, Charles Adams, and Jeffrey Rogers Hummel have produced a "marriage of neo-Confederates and libertarianism." Despite an apparent disconnect (Feller asks, "How can a lover of liberty defend slavery?), Feller writes:

What unites the two, aside from their hostility to the liberal academic establishment, is their mutual loathing of big government. Adams, DiLorenzo, and Hummel view the Civil War through the prism of market economics. In their view its main consequence, and even its purpose, was to create a leviathan state that used its powers to suppress the most basic personal freedom, the right to choose. The Civil War thus marks a historic retreat for liberty, not an advance. Adams and DiLorenzo dismiss the slavery issue as a mere pretext for aggrandizing central power. All three authors see federal tyranny as the war's greatest legacy. And they all hate Abraham Lincoln.[10]

Hummel in turn, in a review of libertarian Thomas E. Woods, Jr's "The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History", refers to the works by DiLorenzo and Adams as "amateurish neo-Confederate books". Of Woods, Hummel states that the two main neo-Confederate aspecs of Woods' work are his emphasis on a legal right of secession while ignoring the moral right to secession and his failure to acknowledge the importance of slavery in the Civil War. Hummel writes:

Woods writes 'that the slavery debate masked the real issue: the struggle over power and domination' (p. 48). Talk about a distinction without a difference. It is akin to stating that the demands of sugar lobbyists for protective quotas mask their real worry: political influence. Yes, slaveholders constituted a special interest that sought political power. Why? To protect slavery.[11]

Hummel also criticizes Woods' "neo-Confederate sympathies" in his chapter on Reconstruction. Most egregious was his "apologia for the Black Codes adopted by the southern states immediately after the Civil War." Part of the problem was Woods' reliance on an earlier neo-Confederate work, Robert Selph Henry's 1938 book "The Story of Reconstruction."


Continues at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Confederate
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby wintler2 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:08 pm

OT.

Twyla LaSarc wrote:
Elvis wrote:
Twyla LaSarc wrote:Evil system corrupts all it elevates beyond peasantry.

Good thought-byte!

Thanks, although I should by rights amend it to say that even peasants are bought off by rewards given according to skin color. From my own trailer park observations it is the basis of white supremacism..."I'm a fucking total loser, but at least I'm not black and thus subject to more abuse, and indeed can inflict a lick or two of my own"...many people seem to be so easily gratified by the ability to abuse.


They're complying with the first rule of power heirarchies: violence down the heirarchy is entirely acceptable and indeed demanded by those at the top. Its basic to the self-maintaining pyramid scheme, and one way persecuted groups find limited safety via assimilation, eg. Scots settlers in Ireland under the Brits, Irish in US & Aus police, Sikhs in Indian police, ethnic mix in US military, Indonesian settlers in Timor & Papua.
I'd agree that elevation is usually a corrupting process, but at least its not irrevocable, imho.
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby publius » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:39 pm

The drollery of it all. I am anti-State, not Neo-Confederate. I am philosophically opposed to Tyranny.
The South had every right to leave the union. 4 of them had originally founded the union. Once you recognize the legitmate right of the South to leave, the Federal response of total war clearly marks a contrast with the Republic to date.

You Damn Yankees are just radical authoritarian nationalists. Your pseudo-progressive political ideology stems from propaganda swallowed young. A syrup in school from the blood of the two million murdered by War Dictator Abraham Lincoln. You Fascists seek rejuvenation of the nation based on commitment to an organic national community BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. Two million dead. Martial Law. CORPORATE UNITED STATES.
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby American Dream » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:48 pm

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/i ... e-movement

Essay: The Neo-Confederate Movement

By Euan Hague


Proponents of neo-Confederacy typically look to the antebellum South and the Confederate States of America (C.S.A.) for lessons on leadership, values, morality and behavior. The C.S.A., which existed during the Civil War from 1861 to 1865, and its leaders Jefferson Davis, Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, J.E.B. Stuart, Robert E. Lee and Nathan Bedford Forrest, are venerated as working to uphold the U.S. Constitution by preventing Abraham Lincoln's federal government from maliciously revising its provisions. Neo-Confederacy thus promotes a perspective that claims that the Civil War, often termed the War of Northern Aggression, was an unconstitutional invasion of southern states by aggressor Union forces. In this interpretation, President Lincoln is understood to be a war criminal and key amendments to the U.S. Constitution, most pertinently the Fourteenth Amendment's "equal protection" clauses, are illegal and their implementation is therefore illegitimate.

As a result of these mid-nineteenth century actions, America is thought to have diverged from the path established by the Founding Fathers and, having gone astray, abandoned the culture and foundations upon which American society should be built. The result is a "multicultural empire" that fundamentally contradicts the very meaning of America. Federal authority is asserted to be an unconstitutional infringement on states' rights and U.S. culture is considered to be "profane" and incompatible with traditional American society, given its promotion of equal rights for women, ethnic minorities, LGBT people, and non-Christian religions. Because the U.S. has become a "multicultural empire," neo-Confederate ideologues argue that it is doomed to dissolution into smaller, self-governing nation-states. This is because, in neo-Confederate belief, the idea that a state can be multi-ethnic is a contradiction in terms. Often drawing on eighteenth and nineteenth century political philosophers for justification, neo-Confederates contend that the ideal unit for governance is a small, ethnically homogeneous republic. Some advocates have gone so far as to propose a return to independent city-states and local fiefdoms. Thus, neo-Confederacy is closely intertwined with nationalist and secessionist sentiment.

Current neo-Confederacy finds its intellectual origins in the Southern Agrarianism of the 1930s and 1940s and the efforts to stall racial integration and rearticulate conservatism in the 1950s and 1960s. The first contemporary usage of the term seems to have been in Southern Partisan in 1988 when the magazine's editor, Richard M. Quinn, used it in praise of former Reagan administration staffer Richard Hines. Arguably the most important neo-Confederate periodical, Southern Partisan began publication in 1979 and was established by two men who subsequently became leading neo-Confederates, Clyde Wilson and Thomas Fleming. Two important neo-Confederate organizations are the Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC) founded in 1985, and the League of the South (LOS) founded in 1994 (the LOS was originally named the Southern League). The CCC was created based on the mailing lists of the anti-integration White Citizens' Councils, which sprang up throughout the South in the 1950s after the Supreme Court ended segregation in 1954 in Brown v. Board of Education. The CCC has publicly opposed interracial marriage, affirmative action and immigration and its members included the late syndicated columnist and former Washington Times editorialist, Samuel T. Francis. Though not formally in favor of segregation, the CCC has venerated the Confederate Battle Flag. Echoing many of the CCC's positions, the LOS, led by J. Michael Hill since its inception, has also criticized racially integrated schools, proclaimed that education in the United States is anti-southern indoctrination and rallied in support of the Confederate battle flag. Unlike the CCC, the LOS advocates secession. The LOS regularly publishes a newsletter, Southern Patriot, and maintains one of the most comprehensive neo-Confederate websites.

Many of the proponents of neo-Confederacy are intellectuals and educators – from professors and pastors to political and community leaders. As such, although neo-Confederacy is reactionary and contains racist, sexist, elitist and antidemocratic positions, these are glossed over with a scholarly veneer of closely argued rationales, references to legislative precedents and philosophical treatises. One of the most important articulations of neo-Confederacy is the New Dixie Manifesto. Published in The Washington Post in 1995 and written by two founding members of the LOS, Thomas Fleming and J. Michael Hill, the article fulminated against the homogeneity being forced onto the United States by the media, universities and wanton federal authorities and demanded independence for southern states. Although focused on the southern states, and drawing most of its supporters from this area, neo-Confederacy is not just a southern form of nationalism. It is a conservative ideology that has gained adherents throughout the United States.

At the core of neo-Confederacy is a genetic argument, the belief that "Southern" people and culture are "Anglo-Celtic." This argument initially surfaced in the mid-1970s in the work of historian and future League Director Grady McWhiney, who died in 2006, and his colleagues at the University of Alabama. In a series of scholarly publications in prominent academic journals, McWhiney and his Southern intellectual allies maintained that at the time of the Civil War, the United States was divided between the English northern states and Celtic southern states, the residents of each practicing wholly incompatible cultures and exhibiting a historical animosity that could be dated back to early Europe. Using evidence gathered from examining surnames found in, and travel narratives about, the antebellum southern states, proponents maintained that the Civil War was a continuation of the ancient rivalry of the Celts and English.

Such a contention is problematic and is not sustainable. Not only does this argument completely bypass the central issue of slavery, but also numerous scholars have exposed the flaws in the propositions forwarded by McWhiney and other proponents of the "Celtic South" thesis. Amongst the many criticisms are demonstrations that advocates of the "Celtic South" thesis rely upon erroneous assessments of U.S. Census data from the late-eighteenth and early-nineteenth centuries, incorrectly understand immigration patterns in the United States, reduce the diversity of the early American population to homogenous, culturally monolithic blocks, and expansively define who comprises "Celtic" people in a manner that is wholly inconsistent with usages employed by other scholars. Despite such challenges, the proposal that because "Southern people" speak English and are descended from European Celts they are "Anglo-Celts" now enjoys much popular currency amongst neo-Confederates.

Popular films like Braveheart have been interpreted by neo-Confederates as mirror images of their own struggles and proponents of the Celtic South thesis simplistically conflate Confederate with Celtic. Within this interpretation, Celtic culture is assumed to be genetic and evidence of supposedly Celtic behavior (fighting, drinking, emotional reactions, clannishness, disdain for authority, etc.) is taken as proof of Celtic ancestry. In turn, Celtic ancestry legitimates these supposedly Celtic behaviors, practices that are typically understood to be unchanged since the Bronze Age. This Celtic culture and ethnicity is understood by neo-Confederates to be under attack from a mainstream U.S. policy that favors non-white ethnicities over others. Proponents maintain that malevolent actors are deliberately committing "cultural genocide" against the "Anglo-Celtic" white southern population. Invoking the language of multiculturalism and self-determination, neo-Confederates demand the right to pursue and preserve their own culture in their own communities. When coupled with neo-Confederate beliefs about the ideal unit of self-governance, the result is an intellectualized argument for racially homogeneous and ethnically segregated self-sufficient communities.

One of the most troubling aspects of neo-Confederacy is how proponents understand the relationship between culture and ethnicity. What is lauded in the "Anglo-Celtic" population (e.g. violent masculinity) is derided in other ethnic groups, particularly those of African descent. Neo-Confederacy proposes the antiquated position that cultures do not change over time. The behaviors of "Celtic" peoples in the seventeenth and eighteenth century British Isles are understood to have been transmitted intact to the southern states of the U.S.A. The Confederate troops in the Civil War are claimed to have fought in a Celtic manner, and musical and culinary tastes of white southern residents and historical Celts are taken to be identical. In a manner that closely mirrors nineteenth century racial arguments, such cultural traits and behaviors are understood to be genetically inherited across generations and oceans.

Such logic is also applied to other ethnic and racial groups in the United States, although less explicitly. The result is a sentiment that the dominant beliefs and behaviors of an ethnic group are resistant to change and thus it is nonsensical to invest in social programs like affirmative action or welfare. People and cultures "naturally" find their place in society and so government has no business getting involved to alter this state of affairs. The strongest cultures will rise to positions of superiority and less able ethnic groups will settle into subordinate positions. Thus, egalitarianism is illogical and a "one person, one vote" democracy is unfair and ultimately unsustainable. The League of the South's J. Michael Hill, utilizing the language of nineteenth century social Darwinists, has argued that society is divided into "superiors, equals and inferiors" and that such a hierarchy is God-ordained.

Neo-Confederate websites and authors are quick to reject allegations of racism, offering strong denunciations of the Ku Klux Klan and more crudely racist extremists. Another response to accusations of prejudice is to challenge the legitimacy of the very concept of "racism" and demand that it is a modern invention, unmentioned as sinful in the Bible, and a mainstay of political correctness. Yet, when examining the proposals forwarded in neo-Confederate publications, it is evident that race is central to this ideology. The 1950s and 1960s are regularly invoked as the decades in which American society spiraled into terminal decline. Integration of schools is lamented, desegregation is derided as "social engineering" and policies like school busing and affirmative action are depicted as vindictive attempts to merge whites and African-Americans together to produce a single, ethnically homogenous and racially undefined identity. Leading neo-Confederate authors argue that racial animosities are now greater than ever in U.S. history and that the periods of slavery and Jim Crow segregation were eras of harmonious race relations.

Advocates of neo-Confederacy articulate their arguments in numerous books, magazines and websites. One common practice is to reprint copies of pro-Confederate nineteenth century texts, such as those by Confederate Army Chaplain Robert Louis Dabney (1820-1898) and Mathematics Professor and Slavery Apologist Albert Bledsoe (1809-1877). Another is to produce new materials that advocate neo-Confederacy. Often written in a breathless style that makes the reader feel as if they are becoming privy to long-suppressed truths, the most prominent publisher of neo-Confederate texts is Pelican Books of Gretna, La. Its catalogue, which has important books outlining neo-Confederate sentiments, also contains several overwrought polemics including Michael Andrew Grissom's Southern by the Grace of God; James and Walter Kennedy's Was Jefferson Davis Right? and The South Was Right!; Walter Kennedy's Myths of American Slavery and Gordon Thornton's The Southern Nation: The New Rise of the Old South. Other significant neo-Confederate books include Frank Conner's The South Under Siege (1830-2000) which argues that Jews from northern states instigated and funded the African-American civil rights movement and used Martin Luther King, Jr., as a puppet in an effort to "destroy Christianity" and Southern Slavery As It Was by Steve Wilkins and Douglas Wilson, which selectively interprets slave narratives and rehashes pro-slavery arguments of the mid-nineteenth century to argue that the practice was benign, sanctioned by God and was used as a "pretext" by Unionists to prosecute a war fought over the "biblical meaning of constitutional government" in an effort to suppress Christianity.

A central aspect of neo-Confederacy is this intersection with theology, which has produced a uniquely neo-Confederate reading of Christianity. Advocates maintain that the Civil War was a struggle over the future of this religion. In this assessment, the Confederacy was a bastion of supposedly orthodox Christians fighting against heretical Union troops. Abolitionists are understood to have misinterpreted the Bible, which is held up by neo-Confederates as condoning slavery. As a result, slave owners are depicted as pious observers of Biblical teachings whereas those who opposed slavery necessarily opposed this Biblical lesson and thus the word of God. One of the major efforts of current neo-Confederate writing is to reinterpret slavery as a benevolent institution in which kindly masters brought Christianity to their slaves and cared for their wellbeing.

The upshot of this interpretation is that the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery. Rather, it was a theological war fought to ensure that Christianity would survive in the United States. Given this view, emancipation was an affront to Biblical teachings and thus, when the Confederacy was defeated, so too was the centrality of Christianity to American society. Consequently, neo-Confederates demand a return to communities founded upon what they term orthodox Christianity. Many proponents therefore argue for the implementation of Biblical law, sometimes called theonomy, as the true Christian basis of American society. This understanding of Christianity also incorporates the patriarchal family as its most vital institution, condemns homosexuality, promotes home schooling as a Christian duty and understands that people are not equal because God makes everyone unique. Any effort to overturn social, physical, mental, and other human inequalities comprise an artificial interference in God's chosen order.

Neo-Confederate activists are engaged in numerous struggles to control the depiction of the past and shape the future. Many curators at museums in southern states have been subjected to public and private harassment by neo-Confederates demanding that exhibitions be restaged to ensure that the Confederacy is presented in a positive light and that the "truth" about the Civil War and slavery be told. Opponents of neo-Confederacy have been threatened with lawsuits, physical injury and worse for exposing this nasty underbelly to supposedly innocuous celebrations honoring Confederate ancestors. Neo-Confederacy's advocates have been elected to school boards and other minor political positions, and have had some success in wresting control of major organizations like the Sons of Confederate Veterans from more moderate members.

Elected officials, most notably former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott (R-MS), have spoken at meetings of the Council of Conservative Citizens, expressing sympathy for the organization's positions (often, bad publicity forced quick retractions). Other politicians were members of the League of the South while in office, for example the late Alabama Republican State Senator Charles Davidson between 1994 and 1998. As a result, conservative columnist Stanley Crouch felt moved to write in 1999 that "Neo-Confederates with a disguised racial policy have risen to the top of the G.O.P." and journalist Peter Applebome wrote in Dixie Rising, "it's hard to know these days where the Confederacy ends and the Republican party begins." Believers in neo-Confederacy, historian David Goldfield assesses, "are not fringe people." Their worldview and activities have "a broader white support in the South, within the Republican Party and among some evangelical Protestants."

In sum, neo-Confederacy is an ideology, advanced by professors, pastors, politicians and other well-educated members of society, many of them in positions of authority, which offers an intellectual justification for positions that many would consider anti-democratic, racist, sexist, elitist, religiously intolerant and homophobic. It is considerably more than just support for the Confederate battle flag or nostalgia for the Old South. Neo-Confederacy is an active and ongoing attempt to reshape the United States in the Old South's image.




Euan Hague is Associate Professor of Geography at DePaul University where he researches white supremacy and neo-Confederate activism. His work has appeared in the Annals of the Association of American Geographers, Canadian Review of American Studies and Cultural Geographies and he co-authored and co-edited Neo Confederacy: A Critical Introduction.
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby Elvis » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:29 pm

publius wrote:You Fascists

American Dream wrote:anti-democratic, racist, sexist, elitist, religiously intolerant and homophobic


And the winner is..

Nobody! :yay :yay :yay :yay :yay
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby Searcher08 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:22 pm

Elvis wrote:
publius wrote:You Fascists

American Dream wrote:anti-democratic, racist, sexist, elitist, religiously intolerant and homophobic


And the winner is..

Nobody! :yay :yay :yay :yay :yay


:mrgreen: :hug1: :mrgreen:
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby American Dream » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:37 pm

http://newsone.com/nation/casey-gane-mc ... civil-war/

OPINION: The GOP’s Neo-Confederate Problem, Rewriting The Civil War

Written by Casey Gane-McCalla, Lead Blogger on April 7, 2010


Image



The GOP has a neo-confederate problem. Rather than viewing slavery as a genocidal crime, many in the Republican party seem to view it as a romantic, proud way of life defended by noble warriors who were defending their states’ rights, culture and way of life in the Civil War.

Recently the governor of Virginia, declared April, Confederate History Month. To many African Americans, the Confederacy is a reminder of slavery, brutality, dehumanization, rape and murder. Still, many southern white Americans hold the Confederacy, its history and its flag in high acclaim.

Can you imagine if states in Germany began showing off the Nazi flag? What if a state in Germany declared Nazi history month or people began bringing Nazi flags to protests supported by a political party like Tea Party protesters use Confederate flags. The confederate flag has been used as symbol for racism both before and after the Civil War and to African Americans, shares the same connotations as the Swastika.

Still it seems as if the Republicans, especially southern members of the party, are holding on to Confederate history and pride. Despite the fact that both slavery and the Confederacy are viewed as being on the wrong side of history, many right wingers have their own revisionist history in which the South was the victim and the north was to blame for the war, while ignoring slavery.

Several prominent republicans have attached themselves to the Confederacy, they are known as neo-confederates. One neo-confederate who has recently come to prominence is South Carolina congressman, Joe Wilson. Wilson gained national media exposure by yelling “You Lie!!!” during Obama’s speech.

Wilson is a member of Sons Of Confederate Veterans, the group that lobbied for Confederate History Month in Virginia. The group started off to preserve southern heritage but has recently been taken over by neo-confederate extremist “lunatics” who want to secede from the union again, see slavery as a benign institution and belong in camps named after Jesse James and John Wilkes Booth (the man who assassinated Lincoln).

Joe Wilson is not the only Republican with neo-confederate ties. Republican congressman, Ron Paul has also has several ties to neo-confederates and has expressed neo-confederate ideas. Paul told Tim Russert that he believes that the Civil War was unnecessary and that the north should have bought the slaves back from the south to end slavery.

Ron Paul is also closely tied to the Ludwig Von Mises institute. The SPLC labels the Ludwig Von Mises a neo-confederate organization. Ron Paul’s former chief of staff, Lew Rockwell, Paul’s close friend and former chief of staff heads the organization. Of the Civil War, Rockwell said it “transformed the American regime from a federalist system based on freedom to a centralized state that circumscribed liberty in the name of public order.” Ludwig Von Mises publications have been very supportive of southern secession.

Several members of the racist League of The South, which credits Rockwell as a founding member, have spoken and give presentations at the Von Mises Institute. The SPLC labels the League of The South as a hate group and that they believe the “godly” nation it wants to form should be run by an “Anglo-Celtic” (read: white) elite that would establish a Christian theocratic state and politically dominate blacks and other minorities.”

Paul has also been publicly endorsed the works of Thomas Dilorenzo. Dilorenzo is a senior faculty member at the Von Mises institute and also an affiliated scholar of the racist League Of The South. Dilorenzo has published several books about the civil war. In “The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War,” Dilorenzo argues that the Civil war was a war to prevent southern independence and blames Lincoln for the war while defending the Confederacy. Ron Paul would use that book to back up his claim that the Civil War was an unnecessary war that Lincoln was to blame for on MSNBC.

The problem with Ron Paul, Joe Wilson and the many neo-confederates who support or work in the Republican party is that you can not separate slavery and the Confederacy, once you defend one, you defend the other. That is like separating Nazis and the holocaust.

The history of the south that should be celebrated, is the noble Blacks and Whites who fought against slavery, not those who fought for it. In order for the south to move past its history, it must condemn the practice of slavery and those who fought to preserve it. I know this may be hard for people whose relatives may have fought in the war, but they must respect the many more people whose relatives who were enslaved, murdered and raped due to slavery.
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby publius » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:17 pm

My basic idea is that the War State would have fought that Civl War even if Blacks were emancipated by Jefferson Davis. I enquire into the Presidency of the Commander-In-Chief of a Coup, As we saw in Europe later, these democratic dictatorships are excessive. This is hardly a Neo-Confederate stance. I stand with Lysander Spooner as you stand with Sherman.

Congress adjourning Sine Die generated a Civil War by the elected Executive Branch
President, then Commander-in-Chief Lincoln fought a war without Congressional authorization
He established a War Dictatorship and won the Civil War under this Dictatorship
The post Civil War Reconstruction Act took all power away from the states
The 14th Amendment was never ratified
The 14th Amendment overthrew the Constitution
The 14th Amendment divided the country into 12 Districts. These Federal district courts are illegal and represent military districts
The creation of the CORPORATE UNITED STATES required the 14th Amendement
Civil War established the foundation of Fascism as Modernist Americanism. I see in the combine of industry and state and militarism that emerged from the Civil War the famous Iron Heel of Jack London.

United States that was in operation until 1860; a collection of sovereign Republics in the union. Under the original Constitution the States controlled the Federal Government; the Federal Government did not control the States and had very little authority. War Dictatorship and victory altered this as did his Good Friday death. Starting from the War Dictatorship the original United States has been usurped. This Wall Street-Washington D.C. axis evolved by intelligent design into a separate and different UNITED STATES formed in 1871, which only controls the District of Columbia and its territories, and which is actually a corporation (the UNITED STATES CORPORATION) that acts as our current government using the 14th Amendment. The United States Corporation operates under Corporate/Commercial/Public Law rather than Common/Private Law.

This fact was made clear by Supreme Court Justice Marshall Harlan (Downes v. Bidwell, 182, U.S. 244 1901) by giving the following dissenting opinion: “Two national governments exist; one to be maintained under the Constitution, with all its restrictions; the other to be maintained by Congress outside and Independently of that Instrument.”

Constitution is of course the War Dictatorship.
======
More modern looking backwards: O say can you see a conversation between HG Wells and Stalin, Suppose we could read Lincoln in this conversation years later, as Roosevelt.

WELLS: I am very much obliged to you, Mr. Stalin, for agreeing to see me. I was in the United States recently. I had a long conversation With President Lincoln and tried to ascertain what his leading ideas were. Now I have come to you to ask you what you are doing to change the world. . . .

STALIN: Not so very much. . . .

Discussing planned economies...

Stalin: Theoretically, of course, the possibility of marching gradually, step by step, under the conditions of capitalism, towards the goal which you call socialism in the Anglo-Saxon meaning of the word, is not precluded. But what will this "socialism" be? At best, bridling to some extent the most unbridled of individual representatives of capitalist profit, some increase in the application of the principle of regulation in national economy. That is all very well. But as soon as Roosevelt, or any other captain in the contemporary bourgeois world, proceeds to undertake something serious against the foundation of capitalism, he will inevitably suffer utter defeat.

The banks, the industries, the large enterprises, the large farms are not in Lincoln's hands. All these are private property. The rail roads, the mercantile fleet, all these belong to private owners. And finally, the army of skilled workers, the engineers, the technicians, these too are not at Lincoln's command, they are at the command of the private owners; they all work for the private owners. We must not forget the functions of the State in the bourgeois world. The State is an institution that organizes the defense of the country, organizes the maintenance of "order"; it is an apparatus for collecting taxes. The capitalist State does not deal much with economy in the strict sense of the word; the latter is not in the hands of the State. On the contrary, the State is in the hands of capitalist economy. That is why I fear that, in spite of all his energy and abilities, Lincoln will not achieve the goal you mention, if indeed that is his goal. Perhaps, in the course of several generations, it will be possible to approach this goal somewhat; but I personally think that even this is not very probable. .
“To think is easy. To act is hard. But the hardest thing in the world is to act in accordance with your thinking.”
― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby eyeno » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:15 am

Elvis wrote:I guess I'm more likely to get some real answers in the Whitley threads.

:roll:


That may just be accurate. :thumbsup


elvis wrote:
I went over this UNITED STATES inc., gold-fringe stuff a few years ago, and, if it's true, I could never figure out:



Me too. I did it until it put my eyes out and I went blind again.


And, considering the "Run Pal is gunna put niggas in chanes sune as he gits in da office of presudent" stuff. http://ww4report.com/node/10748


I'm not a Paultard, yes it true. Paul isn't going to do anything to make a difference anyway. I won't waste my time registering to vote. Even if he tried he would get a lead injection so its a mute point for me.

This is an interesting thread though. The Constitution has to die and that is obvious. It is 'the' threat to federal power, even though a weak one these days. The constitution is an evil devil with horns for the PTB. It was specifically written to tell the federal government/finance wing to "fuck off."

It should have contained specific provisions about slavery that were enforced but that did not happen.

The right to 'travel by the normal conveyance of the day un-incumbered and without permit' used to be a right that could not be infringed and now is revocable privilege. My my how far we have come, or gone. Add free speech and the rest to the list, > i.e OWS.

The trail of how we got here is interesting though. The trail to the future can somewhat be discerned by the trail of the past, and its patterns, if it could be untangled, which might be questionable. Knowing the future is valuable to all, and a tightly guarded secret by the few.

I'm not necessarily enjoying the constitution = slavery = christian reconstruction = bow down to jesus = put black folk in chains= put women in their place , = etc..., because I don't think it applies. If I thought it did I would say so, and I would be against it.

I am still learning a lot so I hope the thread continues.

Considering the fact that the constitution will soon be relegated to the halls of dusty history I think its an important thread so that we can contemplate what will come next. Its already been relegated to the halls of dusty history in a way because it is not being observed. All that remains is the official funeral. I suspect when it becomes amended, and it will, that things will then slowly but drastically change even more, if that is even possible, and I am sure it is.

I might post some quotes I consider relevant as to why I say the days of the constitution are numbered. 2012 could be a very interesting year according to some very in the know powerful people that have put their words into the public domain. Time frames are fluid, no guarantees, but I see "shock n awe" coming to a theater near us in the future. We have a new President (sic) coming into view. He will need to bond himself to the hearts and minds of the beasts in the field in the proper fashion, being strife and fear.
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby American Dream » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:02 am

Lest we forget...


Ku Klux Klan: A Violent History
No Far Right British politician looking to soften his movement's image would relish being associated with the Ku Klux Klan.

By Tom Leonard/Telegraph
23 Oct 2009


Image
A Ku Klux Klan rally in Illinois.

The organisation – founded by ex-Confederate soldiers following the American Civil War – has long been far more ruthless and violent than any white supremacist group in the UK.

Started in 1865 as a secret society (taking its name by combing kyklos, the Greek word for circle, with clan) that attacked Unionists and blacks, it was already facing extinction by the 1870s.

However, the Klan ethic enjoyed a resurgence in the inter-war years as whites reacted angrily to the migration of black Americans into the city as well as the arming of black troops in the First World War.

At its peak in the mid-1920s, the Klan boasted an estimated six million members, only to dwindle to nothing within a few years as outrage spread over its violence.

When the Civil Rights movement took off in the South in the 1950s, various independent Klan groups started up to resist it. Klansmen bombed activists' homes and black churches, beat up blacks and white opponents and killed them.

A series of Klan murders in the 1960s, including the killing of the three civil rights volunteers commemorated in the film Mississippi Burning, were only cleared up over the past few years as loyalty to – and fear of - the Klan dwindled among white Southerners and all-white juries.

The violence continued into the 1980s – four elderly black women were shot but not killed in Tennessee in 1980 by Klansmen who had just taken part in an initiation rally. A year later, Michael Donald, a young black man in Mobile, Alabama, was the victim of a random lynching by two Klansmen. In 1997, one of them – Henry Hayes - became the first Klan member to be put to death for a Klan murder in the state since 1913.

However, after civil liberties organisations successfully started hitting the Klan in the wallet with multi-million dollar civil lawsuits, the movement split into myriad small groups while curtailing its criminal activities.

Today, there are estimated to be almost 180 chapters, together boasting no more than 8,000 members. Two-thirds are still in the southern states.

The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, founded by David Duke, remains the largest, while others include Imperial Klans of America and the Bayou Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

It is widely seen as a movement in decline, with white supremacists more attracted by neo-Nazi groups.

Last year, a jury in Kentucky forced the Imperial Klans of America to pay out $2.5 million after finding that some of its members had savagely beaten up a 16-year-old at a state fair.

Sporadic Klan-related violence continues. In November last year, Raymond Foster, the leader of a group called the Sons of Dixie, was charged with murdering a woman after a row during an initiation rite in Louisiana.

Confederate flags and six Klan robes were found at the backwoods campsite where she was killed.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... story.html
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby Stephen Morgan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:27 am

You all know there were slave states on Lincoln's side in that war, right?
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby Cedars of Overburden » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:08 am

The people with the greatest need and the most self-evident right to secede tend to be brown or black.
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby American Dream » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:22 am

Cedars of Overburden wrote:The people with the greatest need and the most self-evident right to secede tend to be brown or black.


Nationalism is sometimes tied to liberation movements that are anti-racist, i.e. that oppose the sorts of White Supremacy being pandered here. That said, it's a very, very slippery slope: Klan leader David Duke was famously a friend/ally of Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan for just this sort of reason. One can easily believe that some Nazi/Klan types would be happy with a white homeland in the northwestern U.S. (at least for now) just as some black nationalists have advocated- and fought- for a separate homeland in the state of Mississippi.

I don't identify with nationalism myself- am far more of an internationalist- and I know that there are millions and millions of people here in the States who could give a shit about black/white binaries.

I am also anti-authoritarian but do know that white supremacists have a long history of appropriating anti-State rhetoric to further their own vile ends. Though I do think we should work for a world in which there is more participatory decision-making, we must recognize that people from the broader milieu which publius represents for us are generally not just deeply racist but also extremely homophobic, patriarchal, etc. etc.


For them, "anti-State" means freedom to oppress people.
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby eyeno » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:51 am

One can easily imagine that that some Nazi/Klan types would be happy with a white homeland in the U.S.' northwest just as some black nationalists have advocated- and fought- for a separate homeland in the state of Mississippi.



Really? White folk and black folk getting together for a pow wow? Didn't know that. Got a cite for that? I'd like to read it. I bet its interesting...

Or are they gonna fight it out for the northwest and southeast territories until the bitter bloody end?

Are you serious?
Last edited by eyeno on Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby American Dream » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:55 am

eyeno wrote:
One can easily imagine that that some Nazi/Klan types would be happy with a white homeland in the U.S.' northwest just as some black nationalists have advocated- and fought- for a separate homeland in the state of Mississippi.



Really? White folk and black getting together for a pow wow? Didn't know that. Got a cite for that? I'd like to read it. I bet its interesting...


The above doesn't relate to any sort of pow wow- just "black" and "white" nationalists pursuing parallel agenda.
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