Strange clusterings of missing persons cases.

[RocketMan]

finished listening to the sept 2013 interview
about 430 this am.........

Disturbing doesn't really cover it...
- there's something out there, and has been for a very long time.

Djinn know wharra i'm saying?

Yep, I believe the veil between this world and some other is thinner in some places than others. Or perhaps for some people than others...? Some interesting commonalities arise in the cases.

I feel that the unknown world is so near

[zangtang]

the clothing
the distance travelled
some bodies recovered, some not
most dead, some left to live....minds obviously so shattered any semblance of memory locked up and buried wrapped in black & yellow tape.
wonder how the dead differed from the alive.....
maybe the survivors didnt smell as tasty on closer inspection.
not really much indication its about food.

going to listen to the others (the devils in the details? 2014)

[Lord Balto]

finished listening to the sept 2013 interview
about 430 this am.........

Disturbing doesn't really cover it...
- there's something out there, and has been for a very long time.

Djinn know wharra i'm saying?

Yep, I believe the veil between this world and some other is thinner in some places than others. Or perhaps for some people than others...? Some interesting commonalities arise in the cases.

I feel that the unknown world is so near

I lean more toward jumping timelines, which is at least possible under the current rules of quantum mechanics with no need to posit additional constructs. See, for example, The Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics, by Dewitt and Graham. The theory involves infinite branching, though my gut feeling is that once you have parallel worlds, there's no reason to assume that they are hermetically sealed from each other.

[Lord Balto]

the clothing
the distance travelled
some bodies recovered, some not
most dead, some left to live....minds obviously so shattered any semblance of memory locked up and buried wrapped in black & yellow tape.
wonder how the dead differed from the alive.....
maybe the survivors didnt smell as tasty on closer inspection.
not really much indication its about food.

going to listen to the others (the devils in the details? 2014)

Keep in mind that any form of time travel involves dislocation relative to the surface of the earth. Remember, the earth is traveling through space at the rate of 1/365th of its entire orbit every day. The earth is also rotating, so if you travel one hour into the future you are already 15 degrees or more than a thousand miles away. Doing a little calculating, if a kid disappears and then reappears 12 miles away, that's the equivalent of a time slip of just ~42 seconds. 12/24901 x 24h x 60m x 60s = 0.000482 x 86400s = 41.6448s.

[slomo]

Keep in mind that any form of time travel involves dislocation relative to the surface of the earth. Remember, the earth is traveling through space at the rate of 1/365th of its entire orbit every day. The earth is also rotating, so if you travel one hour into the future you are already 15 degrees or more than a thousand miles away. Doing a little calculating, if a kid disappears and then reappears 12 miles away, that's the equivalent of a time slip of just ~42 seconds. 12/24901 x 24h x 60m x 60s = 0.000482 x 86400s = 41.6448s.

Earth's angular velocity around the sun is 30 km/s, and the sun's angular velocity around the center of the galaxy is 200 km/s. Thus, if you're going to appeal to improbable events consistent with known physics, it seems more likely that after 42 seconds the kid would end up in outer space.

The simplest explanation is malfeasance on the part of government officials and/or private interests. The second simplest explanation is interference from beyond the veil (i.e. on the part of our "neighbors", as Gordon White likes to call them). To me, improbable events consistent with our standard model of physics is a distant third.

[Lord Balto]

Keep in mind that any form of time travel involves dislocation relative to the surface of the earth. Remember, the earth is traveling through space at the rate of 1/365th of its entire orbit every day. The earth is also rotating, so if you travel one hour into the future you are already 15 degrees or more than a thousand miles away. Doing a little calculating, if a kid disappears and then reappears 12 miles away, that's the equivalent of a time slip of just ~42 seconds. 12/24901 x 24h x 60m x 60s = 0.000482 x 86400s = 41.6448s.

Earth's angular velocity around the sun is 30 km/s, and the sun's angular velocity around the center of the galaxy is 200 km/s. Thus, if you're going to appeal to improbable events consistent with known physics, it seems more likely that after 42 seconds the kid would end up in outer space.

The simplest explanation is malfeasance on the part of government officials and/or private interests. The second simplest explanation is interference from beyond the veil (i.e. on the part of our "neighbors", as Gordon White likes to call them). To me, improbable events consistent with our standard model of physics is a distant third.

These are all relative velocities based on Einstein's assumption that you can use the fixed stars as an absolute frame of reference. There is no reason to assume that time travel or any other kind of unusual translation would necessarily be subject to standard relativistic or Newtonian rules.

But the real problem with conspiratorial explanations of such events is that these hypothetical governmental or private actors would still be subject to the same constraints as any other mortal. One would expect some kind of indication of a transportation device: helicopters, motorcycles, VTOLs, these all make a bit of noise and all of them leave some kind of disturbance on the ground, be they tracks or scorch marks. Even horses tend to leave evidence of their presence, both physical and biological.

As for our standard model of physics, that is much stranger now than it was a hundred years ago. And I'm not sure why you distinguish between our "neighbors" and "improbable events consistent with our standard model of physics." These would appear to me to be one and the same thing. Do you think that these "neighbors" of yours exist beyond the realm of physical laws?

[slomo]

These are all relative velocities based on Einstein's assumption that you can use the fixed stars as an absolute frame of reference. There is no reason to assume that time travel or any other kind of unusual translation would necessarily be subject to standard relativistic or Newtonian rules.

But the real problem with conspiratorial explanations of such events is that these hypothetical governmental or private actors would still be subject to the same constraints as any other mortal. One would expect some kind of indication of a transportation device: helicopters, motorcycles, VTOLs, these all make a bit of noise and all of them leave some kind of disturbance on the ground, be they tracks or scorch marks. Even horses tend to leave evidence of their presence, both physical and biological.

As for our standard model of physics, that is much stranger now than it was a hundred years ago. And I'm not sure why you distinguish between our "neighbors" and "improbable events consistent with our standard model of physics." These would appear to me to be one and the same thing. Do you think that these "neighbors" of yours exist beyond the realm of physical laws?

From a macroscopic perspective, any quantum-level effect like tunneling is extremely improbable. According to the standard model. Which has not, to date, successfully reconciled quantum mechanics with general relatively. That said, I think it's quite likely our standard model is wrong in some very fundamental way, much the same as Newtonian physics turned out to be fundamentally wrong (even though it serves as a good approximation in the asymptotic limit of macroscopic entities). So, yes, the neighbors do exist beyond the realm of physical laws as we understand them. As do we.

Fundamentally, I believe consciousness is the substrate for physical reality, so that any violation of any physical law is possible given a powerful enough consciousness (not necessarily or even probably human). This is why I do not distinguish between "aliens" and "spirits", since to interact with either of these classes of intelligences necessarily entails a violation of physical laws as we understand them. Reality is ultimately non-physical, although asymptotically/macroscopically/day-to-day it serves us better to pretend so.

Somewhat related: I just finished reading Our Mathematical Universe. I ultimately disagree with the author (a highly trained and accomplished physicist) because his fundamental assumption is that there is an external/objective reality independent of human consciousness, and I don't take this to be true axiomatically. However, the book serves as a very interesting exercise in where this assumption takes you if you follow it faithfully with a very high level of physical understanding. The author Tegmark ends up concluding that physical reality (which is far more heterogeneous than most people believe, according Tegmark) is ultimately a "mathematical structure", which to me sounds ultimately like it is made up of a consciousness substrate. In other words, all roads lead back to consciousness.

[Luther Blissett]

…However, there is a great pyramid in Great Barrington, just west of Monument Mountain, the location of which is a closely guarded secret. This is all you'll get from me: It is just west of Monument Mountain on private property at the edge of a cornfield bordered by a creek. According to Indian legend, Monument Mountain achieved its height from rocks deposited by passing natives paying homage to a young Indian woman who committed suicide after being prohibited by custom from marrying her one true love, her cousin. The Pyramid is not small, and it is baffling.
…
http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2014/05/the-bennington-triangle-and-the-man-eating-stone-of-glastonbury-mountain/
…

You're killing me now. I never told you, but the first time you mentioned this I went on a wild google satellite goose chase from the mouth of the Housatonic River in Connecticut all the way as far as I could, tracing the western bank, checking in on the terrain view every time something looked appealing. I gave up after awhile, but your new clues have renewed my search. I thrive on geographic mysteries like this. The town of Housatonic itself is quite evocative in its low summer sunlight and decaying passenger train station with Monument Mountain looming so large overhead.

I still can't find it, but that's okay. Maybe some things are supposed to remain a mystery. Found a few curious things, dirtbike trails that look like petroglyphs, some large mounds that look like they might match, denuded hillsides and that sort of thing.

Here's a bit of creep-factor even though I know it's completely innocent (missing church in the forest). The red marker is the peak of Monument Mountain:


I don't think I'd ever read the Reed case before, which is very rare for me. Thank you for that.

[Elvis]

Fundamentally, I believe consciousness is the substrate for physical reality, so that any violation of any physical law is possible given a powerful enough consciousness (not necessarily or even probably human). This is why I do not distinguish between "aliens" and "spirits", since to interact with either of these classes of intelligences necessarily entails a violation of physical laws as we understand them. Reality is ultimately non-physical, although asymptotically/macroscopically/day-to-day it serves us better to pretend so.

Somewhat related: I just finished reading Our Mathematical Universe. I ultimately disagree with the author (a highly trained and accomplished physicist) because his fundamental assumption is that there is an external/objective reality independent of human consciousness, and I don't take this to be true axiomatically. However, the book serves as a very interesting exercise in where this assumption takes you if you follow it faithfully with a very high level of physical understanding. The author Tegmark ends up concluding that physical reality (which is far more heterogeneous than most people believe, according Tegmark) is ultimately a "mathematical structure", which to me sounds ultimately like it is made up of a consciousness substrate. In other words, all roads lead back to consciousness.

Thanks, Slomo, very though-provoking, fundamentally I'd say I agree (as anyone who knows me would predict). And it's interesting and refreshing that you hold that view in spite of -- or perhaps because of -- your scientific education. So glad your posting more again.

One question I have about the distinction between "aliens" and "spirits": couldn't an alien have a physical form (as opposed to a non-corporeal 'spirit'), and travel to Earth in a physical vehicle, and so not necessarily violate physical laws as we understand them?


As to the missing persons in the national parks, from all the details, I couldn't say it's all one thing. But many cases frankly sound like a some kind of large furry creature is involved. Mainly because of the recovered children's recollections, and, in the cases of death, bodies being found impossibly distant, over rugged terrain etc., from the site of their disappearance. The furry creature hypothesis, especially a cryptid, need not rule out nearby "government lab" scenaria.

But the shoes. What's with the shoes always being off?

[Freitag]

I've read the first two Paulides books. The information is good, but the writing style annoyed me a bit. He refuses to draw any conclusions from the data. He just gives you the facts of each case. There's not a lot of meta-narrative.

It sure is a hell of a mystery though. It reminds me of fairy tales. If you wear bright colors in the woods, the big bad wolf's gonna get you. Little Red Riding Hood. The victims' bones are mostly gone, with only a few small bones left over, like they've been eaten.

Fee-fi-fo-fum,
I smell the blood of an Englishman,
Be he live, or be he dead
I'll grind his bones to make my bread

It's like something is watching people in the woods, snatching them, and either eating them or throwing them off of mountains.

I'll probably buy the other two books at some point. Since reading the first two books, I've worked myself into a paranoid state more than once when alone near the woods.

(Oh - and Paulides speculated in one of his previous interviews that the removal of the shoes was so the victims are less likely to escape, or could not get far if they tried (the terrain being snow and/or forest floor).)

[Iamwhomiam]

How ironic my reading that quote today of all days. My son would be terrified from my recitation. Nearly my most painful memory, I loved him so.

[Searcher08]

How ironic my reading that quote today of all days. My son would be terrified from my recitation. Nearly my most painful memory, I loved him so.

from me, dear Iam

[Elvis]

(Oh - and Paulides speculated in one of his previous interviews that the removal of the shoes was so the victims are less likely to escape, or could not get far if they tried (the terrain being snow and/or forest floor).)

Yes, that bolsters the large creature hypothesis. And thanks for the review; I have not read his books, but have heard a few of his radio interviews and feel like I've got a fairly good handle on the details.

[BrandonD]

Fundamentally, I believe consciousness is the substrate for physical reality, so that any violation of any physical law is possible given a powerful enough consciousness (not necessarily or even probably human). This is why I do not distinguish between "aliens" and "spirits", since to interact with either of these classes of intelligences necessarily entails a violation of physical laws as we understand them. Reality is ultimately non-physical, although asymptotically/macroscopically/day-to-day it serves us better to pretend so.

Well written, I'm in complete agreement. In fact, if you wouldn't mind indulging me I'd like to share a silly story I wrote a few years ago on the subject:

(setting: Luke and Matthew playing monopoly, in the midst of a discussion.)

"Yes, in fact. Man can fly, I've seen it."

Matthew raised his eyebrow as he rolled the dice. "I'd really love to believe you, but the laws of physics simply make that impossible."

"Those laws might," Luke replied, "but there are laws of awareness, of which your cherished laws of physics are only a sub-set, which tell me otherwise."

Matthew slid his wheelbarrow piece over to St Charles Place. "Ok, I'll play along with you. What exactly are these laws?"

"Well in a nutshell, I'd say that the scope of your awareness determines what's possible and what's not. The laws that restrict you represent the boundaries of that scope. By the way, you owe me $53."

Matthew frowned, looking back down at his place on the board. He handed over a few orange and white bills from his pile of fake money. "Don't take this as an insult, but what you're describing sounds a little like metaphysical mumbo-jumbo, without conveying any actual meaning."

Luke looked up from the board. "I thought you might say that. Well then, would you prefer an illustration?"

Matthew raised an eyebrow and replied, "Yes, by all means."

"Ok then, let's take this game as an example. I'll tell you what space I'm going to land on next. On my next turn, I'll land on Boardwalk."

Mathhew looked down at the board and smirked. "Well that would definitely be an impressive show of prognostication, you're gonna have to roll double sixes. Go for it, show me some magic."

Luke smiled and shook up the dice in his cupped hand. Throwing them onto the board, Matthew watched carefully as they rolled to a stop.

"Ah, too bad," Matthew sighed, a little disappointed. "A seven. Looks like your mystical law didn't work after all."

"Oh yeah?" Luke picked up his dog piece and dropped it on Boardwalk.

Matthew sat up and crossed his arms, lowering his brow. "Well of course you can land there if you cheat."

"I don't know why you're so disappointed," Luke shrugged. "It's not every day that you get to see a dog fly."

[zangtang]

halfway thru the dec2014 2part interview.
big hairy creatures may be the 1st Fortean port of call,
but there's more at play here.
R.A.W. alluded briefly (it wasnt one of his big areas) to
the oz factor prevalent in many sasuatch/cryptid cases....
theres some non-local/ transtime dimensional mcfuckery going on here also

some live, most die, some just disappear off the face of the earth
why?

i suspect some of these people (victims) are dying of
fear so traumatic the spirit just opts to vacate the body.

more later.