Better thread structure?

[seemslikeadream]

I know it's so very hard and time consuming to scroll....


I think it's more about copy/paste crap that has nothing to do with the topic that is a bit annoying

[slimmouse]

Paralel threads,

the outside world - The LATEST articles of interest, videos, podcasts, images and stuff, with all associated external commentary.

The inside world - talking about all of this as the observer of the outside world, but with the associated personal emotion.

[BrandonD]

Last but not least
1 Please don't invite / post JREF affiliated people here. FMSF and all that.

There are JREF people here? If so, then I'm glad I haven't interacted extensively with them - I suspect we would be like oil and water.

On second thought, they're more like cyanide: sometimes beneficial in very small amounts, but generally poisonous.

[seemslikeadream]

You don't remember Mr. Built A. Burger?

[Searcher08]

I'm probably missing something here, but are people being raked across the coals for copy/pasting too much content into threads? That is verboten now?

You are missing my key point - my concern is primarily about posting process NOT content. Posting a couple of pages article is 80% of what happens. People reply with their ideas and add their own posts. Posting long strings of posts within a topic even though no one is replying is 'gaming' - that is the 'something else going on'

I do have a concern with readibility - posting a very long article can nix an ongoing conversation - do you really have no problem with people Copy-Pastaing 12,000 words at a time? Without even reading what they are posting? Or adding any orienting context to frame it?

Inter-personal dialogue is fine. But, lets be honest, most of that can just become pretty superficial meta-commentary and less news and more gossip that would be better placed in The Lounge.

Some of what you call superficial meta-commentary is 'social lubricant' - sometimes a report on one's own reaction is enough to continue a thread EG Wombat's WTF moment re anti-vaxx rage encouraged me to look back on the social media convos I had seen.

And isn't there some code you can throw down to collapse long chunks of text?
Maybe big chunks should just be encouraged to have that.

AFAIK that feature is not available in this Forum software - it would be GREAT if it was.

And banning people for cross posting in threads? A lot of this seems like the Village Green Society wanting to castrate litterers.

To use your metaphor, the Village Green is currently under two feet of dog shit, the village pond has an area with tires and rubbish burning, the kids play area has been vandalised and is no longer used, and visiting tourists get beaten up. So as someone who remembers a Village Green that was not like this, I would like to get it a happier, livelier, less aggro filled and functional place

I didnt say that about CROSS-posting - I said public flogging for MULTI-posting, which means posting the SAME post in the SAME thread.
CROSS-posting on the first page of General Discussion has the same effect as GAMING, whether intentional or not. Almost no-one except American Dream does this consistently. If it was a vote for attention on GD page 1, this would be 'stuffing the ballot box'.

If these big data dumps were off topic then I could see that being obstructive,

A big data dump where there are long trails of posts within a thread with no replies except NEW posts by the OP doesnt belong in a Discussion Area - it belongs in a READING area, not GD for the simple, elegant reason that NO ONE IS DISCUSSING IT!

but if they are on topic, what are people afraid of? Reading?
Again, is there a bigger problem at play here?

Yes, there is.
The problem is a type of posting *process* which results in multiple defacto 'Sticky Topics' which are sometimes not replied to for over a month, accumulating more and more posts and which are full of cross-posts to other threads that are doing the same and also on on page 1 of a supposed discussion area.

I hope that is clearer, brekin - my issue is 'content'-free but about posting processes and usability.

[Searcher08]

Last but not least
1 Please don't invite / post JREF affiliated people here. FMSF and all that.

There are JREF people here? If so, then I'm glad I haven't interacted extensively with them - I suspect we would be like oil and water.

On second thought, they're more like cyanide: sometimes beneficial in very small amounts, but generally poisonous.

I believe RI was threatened by their lawyers over some Randi discussions some years ago.
The poster was called Mason I Bilderberg IIRC
Posts were from pseudoskeptics - see 'Conspirituality' and AD's David Aaronovitch ones. Aaronovitch is probably the person who represents the absolute antithesis of what RI means, to me personally.

[Elvis]

David Aaronovitch ones. Aaronovitch is probably the person who represents the absolute antithesis of what RI means, to me personally.

[brekin]

Searcher08 thanks for your cluing me in response. I think we are in general on the same page, (get it "same page" yuk, yuk) with all this. I've benefited from large bowls of copy pasta without preface as well as long streams of gooey "social lubricant" but, yes, if I had my druthers I'd like a nice lasagna of balanced discourse layering both. I haven't been spending as much time as I used to on RI but I wouldn't characterize the Village Green you've described as the current state of things. I'd love someone to link to some dates to search the forum when RI had its golden age. But sure, when I check in now it actually seems a little tepid and routine, if not quite a industrial wasteland. Someone said it was a ghost town recently? I can more see that. I probably delete 3/4 of my posts before I post them now because it seems like most of what needs to be said, has been said in one form or another and a forum that doesn't look back farther than a weeks previous posts is going to get stale no matter what the subject matter is. So it goes, as K.V. use to say.

One thing, though, I've learned is that a lot of calls for improving forums and the like are really calls for behavior change, which are actually calls for changes in thinking, which are actually calls for breaking old habits. This is usually noble, but as everyone has probably found on their own, changing ones own habits let alone someone elses habits is one of the hardest endeavors there are. Technical solutions can force habit change, but I don't see anyone wanting to take on the technical redesign of the site to possibly facilitate this and intense moderation of most of these issues can be onerous and pointless. In questions of style, we really are talking about individual's personality and character regarding order and expression, and that is a big boat to row. I'm not saying this to dissuade you in your endeavor, but interesting content usually trumps style anyways, whereas trying to reinforce structure and procedure is a long, lonely road.

[Searcher08]

Cheers, brekin (and lulz for Michael Douglas )

I think there is a brilliant technical solution available now, which wasnt a few years ago, it is called Commons in a Box and was developed by the City University of New York (CUNY) as an extension of Wordpress (called Buddypress). It is free, easy to install Open Source software that allows the set-up of integrated Forums, Blogs, User defined Groups, Commenting and Wiki. There was a thread a couple of years ago where doodad suggested something similar, but which didnt exist then. It is very stable and is actually used by CUNY for their whole Academic Commons.

RI 3.0 It could be a truly amazing site...
http://commonsinabox.org/

[Searcher08]

Gaming the frontpage in action

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38536

This thread has now (Feb 5 2015) reached *ELEVEN* CopyPasta posts since November 2014.

Total number of Words written by American Dream in the thread to Feb 5 2015 = ZERO

Number of Comments from RI users received to Feb 5 2015 = ZERO


Can I suggest that if > 4 posts are added to a thread with no replies, that the thread is moved to the Data Dump?

[American Dream]

I would say personally that such a process should not be something that would be implemented selectively and/or opportunisticaly but should be part of a universally shared policy that would be applied consistently, if at all.

[Searcher08]

Weasel words, AD, which ignore the whole context for this conversation and which subtly seek to make this about YOU. It is not. It is about shitty posting behaviour.

The fact is... that you -by design or not (I believe the former) - are gaming General Discussion and turning it into your person CopyPasta Information Dump.

I object to this and so do many other people here, a fact that you appear to treat with contempt.

General Discussion is for ...General Discussions
not
My Little LinkFarm and CopyPasta Cafe

Go and grow your link farm in the Data Dump, not General Discussion

[American Dream]

Ironic but not so surprising that the person pushing here to impose their dictates would say: "Weasel words, AD, which ignore the whole context for this conversation and which subtly seek to make this about YOU. It is not. It is about shitty posting behaviour.

I think my comments suggest an alternative approach which is really much better.

I would say personally that such a process should not be something that would be implemented selectively and/or opportunisticaly but should be part of a universally shared policy that would be applied consistently, if at all.

[zangtang]

"I'm the BAD guy???"

[Searcher08]

The context here is one of behaviour equivalent to a Thread Gamer / Spammer (whether by design or stupidity). Many people here have issues with that behaviour and yet AD consistently ignores their concerns.

I think my comments suggest an alternative approach which is really much better.

They do not. The paragraph is full of weasel words.
It is ambiguous,
It is non-specific
It does not address issues raised, it says nothing about addressing
1 Thread Gaming
2 CrossPosting,
3 Multi-Posting,
4 Context-free and Outcome-free CopyPasta (12,000 words for one post? is that a new record? will it be Whole Books next?)

I would say personally that such a process should not be something that would be implemented selectively and/or opportunisticaly but should be part of a universally shared policy that would be applied consistently, if at all.

[/quote]

What is your specifically stated, unambiguous process for dealing with issues raised here?
Why are you consistently avoided addressing ANY of these issues?

A weasel word (also, anonymous authority) is an informal term[1] for words and phrases aimed at creating an impression that a specific and/or meaningful statement has been made, when in fact only a vague or ambiguous claim has been communicated, enabling the specific meaning to be denied if the statement is challenged. A more formal term is equivocation.

The use of weasel words to avoid making an outright assertion is synonymous to tergiversate.[2] Weasel words can imply meaning far beyond the claim actually being made.[3] Some weasel words may also have the effect of softening the force of a potentially loaded or otherwise controversial statement through some form of understatement, for example using detensifiers such as "somewhat" or "in most respects".[4]

Weasel words can be used in advertising and in political statements, where encouraging the audience to develop a misleading impression of what was said can lead to advantages, at least in the short term (in the longer term, systematic deception is likely to be identified, with a loss of trust in the speaker).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word


A short course in unpicking manipulative language
I am going to tease this disingenuous nonsense apart:
AD says "The person pushing here to impose their dictats"

presupposes:
A someone is seeking imposition
Who is this mysterious 'someone'? Could it be ... Searcher?
= "Searcher is seeking to impose on you"

impose their dictats
presupposes:
B there ARE dictats
when actually there are specific suggestions being put forward for discussion to deal with Thread Gaming and associated issues
AND
Someone(who?) has created dictats
Who is this mysterious 'someone'? Could it be ... Searcher?
= "Searcher has created dictats!"

Let's look at what this is...
A Diktat (correct spelling) is

An order or decree imposed by someone in power without popular consent: a diktat from the Bundestag [mass noun]: he can disband the legislature and rule by diktat

So what is being said here are the following implications:

Searcher has created diktats
Searcher is seeking to impose those on RI
Searcher is doing this without popular consent

This frames me, funnily enough, as a fascist, seeking to "enact decrees without popular consent".


NO, it is just someone responding to Forum gaming and Information Dumping in an area called
General Discussion
not
General CopyPasta and InfoDumps