2016 Presidential Election

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: 2016 Presidential Election

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:07 pm

where did you get that idea...I would never throw my vote away...just to make me feel good ...I would never take the easy way out just to clear my conscience ...it doesn't work that way ..I just don't show up once every 4 years and "do my part"


how much time have you spent on your local elections?

how much time have you spent with the Green Party?

Luther Blissett » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:05 pm wrote:
seemslikeadream » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:54 pm wrote:Tammy Duckworth and Russ Feingold are going to be elected....yes voting does make a difference

to real ordinary people ..living real ordinary lives.......parents trying to raise decent human beings ..it makes a difference

if Illinois and Wisconsin citizens didn't vote Illinois and Wisconsin would look like Kansas


I'm overjoyed to hear that you're voting Stein.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: 2016 Presidential Election

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:16 pm

Police raid Indiana's largest voter registration operation after Republican claims of fraud

By Meteor Blades
Wednesday Oct 05, 2016 · 1:01 PM CDT


As part of an investigation into alleged voter fraud that began in August, Indiana State Police raided a northside Indianapolis, Indiana, office of the Indiana Voter Registration Project (IVRP) Tuesday morning.

The investigation now spans nine counties. It began after fraudulent voter registration forms were filed in two of those counties two months ago. Justin L. Mack at the Indianpolis Star reports:

The results of the search are not being released, and the affidavit and search warrant will remain sealed for 30 days.

"An investigation of this nature is complex, time consuming and is expected to continue for several more weeks or months," said an ISP statement. "Victims of the activities by some agents of the Indiana Voter Registration Project may not discover they have been disenfranchised from voting until they go to vote and realize their voting information has been altered. Such action may result in the citizen having to cast a provisional ballot."
Blaming the IVRP, which is legally required to turn in every voter registration form for the state to determine which are good and bad, is quite the clever move.

Can you chip in $3 to help Hillary Clinton keep Donald Trump out of the White House?

Are you a member of MoveOn? No matter where you live, help defeat Donald Trump and take back the Senate by texting MoveOn members in swing states to knock on doors where they live.

Spencer Woodman at The Intercept has some disturbing details:

The [IVRP] group alleges that police told a worker she was not allowed to film the raid and attempted to block workers from access to counsel, said Jeff Macey, the attorney representing the IVRP. He called me from his car parked across the street from the voting offices he said he was unable to enter.

With its headquarters stripped of essential equipment, the registration drive’s future is suddenly uncertain.

The Washington, D.C.-based liberal-leaning Patriot Majority oversees the Indiana voting drive. “At the end of the day, when they find that the organization has done nothing wrong,” said Patriot Majority head Craig Varoga, “they will still have killed the ability of this organization to register voters.”
And, given the source of the allegations, killing voter registration could be the whole point.

Woodman writes that IVRP says it has submitted tens of thousands of registrations and “that by zeroing in on just a handful of problematic applications the state appeared to be criminalizing a basic feature of voter registration itself, which inevitably involves submitting paperwork that contains imperfections.”

But an ISP official noted that the problems in voter registration forms they had assessed were not “innocent errors” but included names of people who didn’t exist and addresses that didn’t exist.

Maybe so, but for the next 30 days, we won’t get a look at that search warrant or the complaint that sparked it. The deadline for voter registration in Indiana is next Tuesday, October 11.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/10/5 ... s-of-fraud
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: 2016 Presidential Election

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:13 pm

This really isn't the point: spending decades building a third party according to the rules under which all that counts is either money or persistent bureaucratic machinery run by hacks. A recipe for not getting very far. I'd rather see smart and active people spend the decades fighting as movements on issues, striving to create the conditions for a rapid shift -- such as appears to be nearer than ever, by the way. The Republicans were founded in 1854 as a result of the Kansas-Nebraska Act and took the presidency already in 1860. Of course, they incorporated all these Whig and even northern Democrat fragments. So Sanders had the right idea too. Where are the third party voters going to come from, well obviously from all the old parties as well as the non-voters. It's the political mood that must arrive, not some conventional piece-by-piece building of hierarchical organization vetting politicians. The most meaningful effort on the electoral front after November would be to challenge ballot restrictions, push for IRV, public campaign finance, etc.

The Democrats did work to build their organization (more than the Republicans, obviously, by the way, whose principle was always take an oath to the creed and pay up and we'll let you play politician, which went wrong this year). But that doesn't mean they own any of it, since it is also the product of a larger system and interests that privileged them, and since so much of it is based on lies. Democracy may arrive, walk through the door and own their shit, one day soon, as it almost did this year. If that means it's a huge bunch of people suddenly involved who had never before done a thing for the Democrats (out of entirely understandable reasons, of course), or who had never before bothered with anything political, then too bad for all the hard-working hacks and bureaucrats and servants to business interests and careerists who put all those years of work in just to have it appropriated by the frightful mob of the majority.

This was the real struggle of the primaries in 2016, besides the top-down rigging, and I'm not thinking at all that it proved they were invulnerable when the Sanders challenge was finally defeated. It made their weakness obvious. Nice, likable guy, sure, very principled in his way and fairly inspiring, but that was a 74-year-old squat Jewish man who did that, with not a single other figure on the D-left with the courage to even think it.

I do think an inside-outside strategy of movements that are ecumenical about parties makes sense, so the dumbest thing would be to have an over-moralistic stance for or against lesser-evilism. So tiresome. Go ahead and vote your damn thing, any vote not for the Orange Hitler is a vote against him. He doesn't own any slice of the electorate any more than Clinton does. Only those who vote for him will be responsible if he wins (and Morning Joe and the rest of the corporate fuckers who platformed the shit out of him).

I'm not going to condemn anyone who votes for Clinton if they do so thinking to stop the beast, long as they don't fool themselves about her and her establishment or delude themselves about what must follow. That means movement building first, that's the way to get a party that might actually change something. (The awesome loss of nerve or corrupt reveal of Syriza once in power could be used as evidence against my argument, of course.)

Beat Trump, then fight Clinton, in other words.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 2016 Presidential Election

Postby Cordelia » Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:23 pm

Getting a 1974 kind of vibe.

Image.

Will he resign withdraw?
The greatest sin is to be unconscious. ~ Carl Jung

We may not choose the parameters of our destiny. But we give it its content. ~ Dag Hammarskjold 'Waymarks'
User avatar
Cordelia
 
Posts: 3697
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: USA
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 2016 Presidential Election

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:35 pm

Beat Trump, then fight Clinton, in other words......yep

if things go well the Dems will take back the Senate and things will get done


Will he resign withdraw?

No he won't ...he's going to bring down the house

even though all the sensible/ cowards didn't speak up sooner ...they are now condemning him....too little too late

and we have a whole bunch of pissed off crazies running around when Trump looses
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: 2016 Presidential Election

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:11 pm

Absolutely not. This needs to go down.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 2016 Presidential Election

Postby Freitag » Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:50 pm

Cordelia » Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:23 am wrote:Getting a 1974 kind of vibe.


I'm getting a 1980 kind of vibe ;)
User avatar
Freitag
 
Posts: 615
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 2016 Presidential Election

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:20 pm

FiveThirtyEight Chance of winning



Hillary Clinton
81.2%


Donald Trump
18.8%





http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/201 ... id=rrpromo
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: 2016 Presidential Election

Postby 8bitagent » Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:20 am

Here's your two choices America. May the better slimeball racist rapist win

Image
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 2016 Presidential Election

Postby Nordic » Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:19 am

seemslikeadream » Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:35 pm wrote:Beat Trump, then fight Clinton, in other words......yep

if things go well the Dems will take back the Senate and things will get done


Will he resign withdraw?

No he won't ...he's going to bring down the house

even though all the sensible/ cowards didn't speak up sooner ...they are now condemning him....too little too late

and we have a whole bunch of pissed off crazies running around when Trump looses



Obama had the Senate and the House and a huge popular mandate for change, as well as the GOP dying and not even on life support.

That didn't work out so well. Haven't you noticed the Dems are 100% complicit in the crimes of the empire? They only play good cop to the GOP bad cop. It's so brazen now we had a vice presidential debate where the 2 men were virtually identical.

The Dem party AND the GOP need to be tossed in the dumpster and set on fire.

Why would anybody think that the Dem party had 1% of anything good left in them?????
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

Re: 2016 Presidential Election

Postby Harvey » Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:41 am

Excellent post Jack.

At this point it's clear that Trump was merely the ascent stage for the Clinton payload. How else were they going to get this monstrosity into orbit?

The 'vote Trump out' signal is looking increasingly academic as he 'becomes unelectable.'

Are lifelong Democrats really not agile enough to dump Clinton as well? No reason remains * to suspect getting Clinton to the White House wasn't the whole point of the exercise, as many have been saying for over a year, Salman Rushdie being the first I know of to publicly suggest this as an explanation.



As it is, throngs of Democrats are supporting the heir to the Nobel Peace laureate and everything which that will entail. Will Nobel give a similar endorsement to the years of slaughter ahead? Too obvious?

This peace activist just slammed the Nobel Peace Prize, and even Obama thinks she’s worth listening to...

And:

...Barack Obama won the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize --for not being George W. Bush. This seemed unseemly at the time, but not outrageous. Seven years later, it seems grotesque...

*Edited: to remove the word 'not'
Last edited by Harvey on Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


Eden Ahbez
User avatar
Harvey
 
Posts: 4201
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 4:49 am
Blog: View Blog (20)

Re: 2016 Presidential Election

Postby 8bitagent » Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:55 am

Harvey » Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:41 am wrote:Excellent post Jack.

At this point it's clear that Trump was merely the ascent stage for the Clinton payload. How else were they going to get this monstrosity into orbit?

The 'vote Trump out' signal is looking increasingly academic as he 'becomes unelectable.'

Are lifelong Democrats really not agile enough to dump Clinton as well? No reason remains not to suspect getting Clinton to the White House wasn't the whole point of the exercise, as many have been saying for over a year, Salman Rushdie being the first I know of to publicly suggest this as an explanation.



As it is, throngs of Democrats are supporting the heir to the Nobel Peace laureate and everything which that will entail. Will Nobel give a similar endorsement to the years of slaughter ahead? Too obvious?


I never got why sexist "politically incorrect/Muslim hating" Bill Maher is against Trump. Trump seems like Bill Mahers knight in shining armor
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 2016 Presidential Election

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:25 am

a misogynist blames a woman for her husbands/boyfriends deeds


8bitagent » Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:20 am wrote:Here's your two choices America. May the better slimeball racist rapist win

Image
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: 2016 Presidential Election

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:30 am

two fucking choices that's it.....


Nordic » Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:19 am wrote:
seemslikeadream » Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:35 pm wrote:Beat Trump, then fight Clinton, in other words......yep

if things go well the Dems will take back the Senate and things will get done


Will he resign withdraw?

No he won't ...he's going to bring down the house

even though all the sensible/ cowards didn't speak up sooner ...they are now condemning him....too little too late

and we have a whole bunch of pissed off crazies running around when Trump looses



Obama had the Senate and the House and a huge popular mandate for change, as well as the GOP dying and not even on life support.

That didn't work out so well. Haven't you noticed the Dems are 100% complicit in the crimes of the empire? They only play good cop to the GOP bad cop. It's so brazen now we had a vice presidential debate where the 2 men were virtually identical.

The Dem party AND the GOP need to be tossed in the dumpster and set on fire.

Why would anybody think that the Dem party had 1% of anything good left in them?????
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: 2016 Presidential Election

Postby dada » Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:05 pm

Going to let my imagination run, see what kind of ideas come up. Not worried about practicality, just brainstorming freely. You know, I like to do thought experiments.

JackRiddler » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:13 pm wrote: It's the political mood that must arrive, not some conventional piece-by-piece building of hierarchical organization vetting politicians. The most meaningful effort on the electoral front after November would be to challenge ballot restrictions, push for IRV, public campaign finance, etc.


I envision an occupy-style groundswell with a detailed platform addressing many fronts, as opposed to the (refreshingly) original occupy platform of 'no platform.' A movement that deliberately allows itself to be channeled into electoral politics.

Every occupy-area grows its own political party. It's understood from the start that these parties are not conventional parties, they change constantly, merge, split. There's planned obsolescence built into some of them. Others have that distinctly discordian flavor (Guns and Dope. Is it a political party or a joke?) They're all temporary tools by design.

This is Smart-politics, a new utilitarian way of thinking about how to apply political pressure. Flood the market. Don't play the establishment's political games, make up our own games and make them more fun than theirs. The new system is fluid, a mutant organism. Greens and Libertarians are forced to struggle to keep up if they want to stay relevant. In the future things can move fast. Do try not to get stuck in the past.

It's the political mood that must arrive. Occupy may have started as an ad campaign, but it grew unpredictably, spontaneously. Be prepared to make suggestions next time. Or watch it happen, if you like. Your observation will be noted by the data-collectors. That will help, too.


Democracy may arrive, walk through the door and own their shit, one day soon, as it almost did this year. If that means it's a huge bunch of people suddenly involved who had never before done a thing for the Democrats (out of entirely understandable reasons, of course), or who had never before bothered with anything political, then too bad for all the hard-working hacks and bureaucrats and servants to business interests and careerists who put all those years of work in just to have it appropriated by the frightful mob of the majority.


The Lucky Black Cats say the media is the pivot point. So much money and effort has been invested in creating the media 'hardware.' Yet cheap, effective, quality 'software' can be plugged in by anyone.

Corporate pr strategies are at a disadvantage in the now future. Heavy-handed marketing requires more and more, for less and less result. The best programs be subtle, transparent, invisible. Planting ideas, manufacturing desires, and influencing minds is best when practiced by individuals on shoe-string budgets. Capital can't compete.

How does this response have to do with the quote above it?


This was the real struggle of the primaries in 2016, besides the top-down rigging, and I'm not thinking at all that it proved they were invulnerable when the Sanders challenge was finally defeated. It made their weakness obvious.


I agree. It also made the peoples' weakness obvious. Naive idealism. Imagining the democratic system to be a holy institution doesn't help. The political machine doesn't think in those terms, to their advantage.

Hopefully the people take this lesson to heart. The system is simply another tool for making political changes, nothing more, nothing less. Mystical, sentimental ideas about democracy need to be dispelled.


I'm not going to condemn anyone who votes for Clinton if they do so thinking to stop the beast, long as they don't fool themselves about her and her establishment or delude themselves about what must follow. That means movement building first, that's the way to get a party that might actually change something. (The awesome loss of nerve or corrupt reveal of Syriza once in power could be used as evidence against my argument, of course.)

.


It does come down to not fooling ourselves. Reminding people to think in a new way is key. All votes are tactical. Any party once in power has already served its purpose and quickly becomes a hindrance. Strategies need constant revision, endless updating. We're in space in the future. There's no ground, we're constantly moving.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
User avatar
dada
 
Posts: 2600
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:08 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 159 guests