Multiple fatalities at Oregon’s Umpqua Community College

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Re: Multiple fatalities at Oregon’s Umpqua Community College

Postby tapitsbo » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:47 pm

Yes from what I can see the self-identified reactionaries correspond to what someone else here called "people who favour a return to the hierarchies of the late 19th and early 20th centuries".

And yes it wasn't very clever of me to suggest Luther Blisset was "reacting".

Something like the Iranian Revolution - or other movements in South America, Europe, and Asia opposed to Anglo-American liberalism - often represent something else as far as I can tell

I think the "angry white men" will find the "reactionary" position increasingly useless (and fragile in the same way Saudi Arabia is) and increasingly move towards the latter group of ideas for inspiration

If the anarchist/anti-oppression/blac bloc/social justice nexus wants to frame other groups as "reacting" to them they need to pick up their momentum so they can persuasively say they are on the leading edge of change again, instead of themselves collapsing into internecine conflict and inaction. One last point - I tend to meet a LOT of women and people of colour who aren't exactly enthusiastic about this kind of "rad" politics, OR the current elites, OR (needless to say) some Mencius Moldbug dismal hate fantasy
Last edited by tapitsbo on Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby IanEye » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:52 pm

tapitsbo » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:37 pm wrote:Another possibility is that if the USA hadn't attacked Syria OR funded the jihadi destabilization, America wouldn't be in such a humiliating position.


that seems fair.

again, the neo-con perspective would be that by putting boots on the ground, one has a better ability to "control the narrative".

But I am certainly open to the idea that the GOP wants to "own" the neo-con perspective, and so even through Obama was attempting to carry out a neo-con agenda, they could not allow that to happen in terms of branding and such.
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Re: Multiple fatalities at Oregon’s Umpqua Community College

Postby Luther Blissett » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:58 pm

I didn't state it outright so I appreciate the confusion. When my friends say "ban angry white men", I have repeated it here to illustrate a stance more radical than anything I would propose, while relating to my somewhat softer position. It's also something we (my friends and I) recognize as an inherently ridiculous, impossible position. They are asking how we can have peace and prosperity for all when the elites, the patriarchy are who they are. They are asking how they can feel safe when those who believe themselves to be heirs apparent to the patriarchy don't get what they think they deserve and this keeps happening.
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Re: Multiple fatalities at Oregon’s Umpqua Community College

Postby tapitsbo » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:03 pm

It's not ridiculous or impossible - large-scale purges of ethnic or class groups have happened before.

I'm pretty sure the sharper witted actors on all sides don't feel they "deserve" anything and realize they'll only get what they fight for.

What you wrote begs the question of why the current elites who are largely white-coloured men are pouring massive amounts of funding and energy into neutralizing what gets called the patriarchy (see: the university system). My guess is that they want to minimize resistance from frustrated, fighting-age males, among other things

But now we're back to the long-term, institutional social engineering projects researched by people like guruilla or Dream's End
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Re: Multiple fatalities at Oregon’s Umpqua Community College

Postby backtoiam » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:32 pm

Roseburg, for a tiny town of 20,000 people, is blessed with a plethora of extraordinary notable individuals. I read through the bios of the "notable people" list and it is very interesting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roseburg,_Oregon
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Re: Multiple fatalities at Oregon’s Umpqua Community College

Postby guruilla » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:23 pm

Nordic » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:29 am wrote:
Obama and the U.S. are in the position of defending Al Queda terrorists and admitting they funded and trained these enemies of the state in order to destabilize Iraq. Aiding and abetting the enemy, the very people they claim attacked us on 9-11 and who we have been fighting and killing for 14 giving years.

That is treason, pure and simple. The enormity of this is pretty fucking enormous. But it's not even the half of it.

I don't follow current events (except via RI!), so forgive my ignorance here, but how mainstream is the coverage of this? Guardian? Do you have a link?
It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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Re: Multiple fatalities at Oregon’s Umpqua Community College

Postby 82_28 » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:36 pm

It's mainstream, but noticeably truncated given the gravity. Thus it is all "old hat" and who cares, so to speak. Nobody is asking the right questions as to the rot of this gun culture that consumes us apparently.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Multiple fatalities at Oregon’s Umpqua Community College

Postby tapitsbo » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:43 pm

Questions like how countries like Sweden and Germany are big time arms exporters who also practice rigorous gun control domestically?
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Re: Multiple fatalities at Oregon’s Umpqua Community College

Postby Luther Blissett » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:53 pm

tapitsbo » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:03 pm wrote:It's not ridiculous or impossible - large-scale purges of ethnic or class groups have happened before.

I'm pretty sure the sharper witted actors on all sides don't feel they "deserve" anything and realize they'll only get what they fight for.

What you wrote begs the question of why the current elites who are largely white-coloured men are pouring massive amounts of funding and energy into neutralizing what gets called the patriarchy (see: the university system). My guess is that they want to minimize resistance from frustrated, fighting-age males, among other things

But now we're back to the long-term, institutional social engineering projects researched by people like guruilla or Dream's End


I'm just saying that the people who might say something like that are actually against all forms of genocide and don't have the capacity or ability to oppress white men in any way.

I work in higher ed and I feel as though we only bolster existing power structures as they exist now. I haven't really seen a lot of speaking truth to power in my short (~9 year) career in academia. That is, if I understand what you are saying correctly. And I'm sure that this is obvious but I think that the neutralizing of the middle class and the class war waged by the elites against us is a major part of what leads to these tantrums. Mass shooters aren't exactly living in Rat Park.
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Re: Multiple fatalities at Oregon’s Umpqua Community College

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:02 pm

I want everyone to be more careful about what you type because our jokes are becoming reality was faster than usual in 2015.

Case in point: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/j ... ok-truther

Probably mistaken identity but still hilarious...

Sheriff In Charge Of Oregon Massacre Probe Posted Sandy Hook Truther Video

The sheriff investigating a mass shooting at an Oregon community college that left at least nine people dead posted a video to Facebook in 2013 that raised questions about the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.

Douglas County Sheriff John Hanlin posted a link to a YouTube video called "The Sandy Hook Shooting - Fully Exposed," which summarized conspiracy theories surrounding the shooting and quickly racked up millions of views, about a month after the massacre took place.

"This makes me wonder who we can trust anymore..." Hanlin wrote. "Watch, listen, and keep an open mind."


Hopefully he'll be shamed out of a job in the next 48 hours. Too lazy to put that in green font, sorry.
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Re: .

Postby Nordic » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:04 pm

IanEye » Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:21 am wrote:
Nordic » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:29 am wrote:
Nobody is paying any attention right now.




Your framing on this is interesting.

Obama went to Congress in 2013 for their approval of a military strike solution in Syria.
They turned him down, and he abided by that decision.
All of the "humiliations" you tally up to the present can be traced back to that decision.

So your framing, while appearing to be critical of the neo-con perspective, it fact validates it.

Obama was weak for abiding by the decision of the Congress. If the Executive Branch had "gone it alone", Obama would not be in his current "humiliating" position.

also, this:



.


Are you joking? It's hard to tell with you.

This is about American imperialism and America's sense (that just ended abruptly) that they can do whatever the fuck they want in the world and nobody will hold them accountable or call them on their bullshit.

History just changed.

There is a new world order, literally. As of this week. It's a big deal.

And it was a total defeat for the Americans. Just BAM!

We should round up all the neocons now and throw them in jail. Including those who fake bring non-neocons, like Obama. It would be a really good time to do so.
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Re: Multiple fatalities at Oregon’s Umpqua Community College

Postby backtoiam » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:36 pm

Are you joking? It's hard to tell with you.

This is about American imperialism and America's sense (that just ended abruptly) that they can do whatever the fuck they want in the world and nobody will hold them accountable or call them on their bullshit.

History just changed.

There is a new world order, literally. As of this week. It's a big deal.

And it was a total defeat for the Americans. Just BAM!

We should round up all the neocons now and throw them in jail. Including those who fake bring non-neocons, like Obama. It would be a really good time to do so.



And then there is this pesky little detail of Putin standing among the gang, winking shades very dark in one eye only. His face is ash, same as the eggs of the Phoenix Bird. I don't profess to know who is on which team. Considering the economic ruin to the elite that would instantly result by destroying so much hard work done in a single catastrophic world war between Russia, U.S, and China, I'm doubting they want to go that route. I won't distract from the topic of this thread further and will post it in the balkanization thread. I'm thinking more slow burn than mass destruction of their own playground. And the media response to this Putin dilemma is just wayy to calm. Like yawning calm...

Image

Image
Cool. This dude and Obama have the same hand wave.

Image
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Postby IanEye » Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:29 pm

Nordic » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:04 pm wrote:
Are you joking? It's hard to tell with you.




Image


I would imagine one’s perspective would vary, depending on whether or not one believed Obama actually wanted Congress to give him authorization to intervene militarily with boots on the ground in Syria.



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Re: .

Postby tapitsbo » Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:54 pm

Nordic » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:04 pm wrote:
IanEye » Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:21 am wrote:
Nordic » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:29 am wrote:
Nobody is paying any attention right now.




Your framing on this is interesting.

Obama went to Congress in 2013 for their approval of a military strike solution in Syria.
They turned him down, and he abided by that decision.
All of the "humiliations" you tally up to the present can be traced back to that decision.

So your framing, while appearing to be critical of the neo-con perspective, it fact validates it.

Obama was weak for abiding by the decision of the Congress. If the Executive Branch had "gone it alone", Obama would not be in his current "humiliating" position.

also, this:



.


Are you joking? It's hard to tell with you.

This is about American imperialism and America's sense (that just ended abruptly) that they can do whatever the fuck they want in the world and nobody will hold them accountable or call them on their bullshit.

History just changed.

There is a new world order, literally. As of this week. It's a big deal.

And it was a total defeat for the Americans. Just BAM!

We should round up all the neocons now and throw them in jail. Including those who fake bring non-neocons, like Obama. It would be a really good time to do so.


Hope you'd find the time to release some of the more spuriously imprisoned victims of the USA penal system while you were at it, Nordic.

Also important to keep in mind that Sanders and Trump both appear to be "fake non-neocons" as well.
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Re: Multiple fatalities at Oregon’s Umpqua Community College

Postby Iamwhomiam » Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:16 pm

^^^^ Working on it over here on the left-leaning right coast!
What better place to begin than at the entry point into incarceration!
Chief Judge Jonathan Lippman announces bail reforms for New York
Chief judge says simple lack of money traps many in detention

By Robert Gavin
Updated 11:38 pm, Thursday, October 1, 2015

Chief Judge Jonathan Lippman wants to overhaul the state's bail system — and he is starting in New York City.

The judge, who will leave his post at the end of the year due to reaching the mandatory retirement age of 70, said 40 percent of the jail population in New York City is being detained before trial only because the defendants lack the money to afford bail. He argued that for many defendants, a pre-trial bail of $2,500 might as well be $25 million.

"These numbers do not lie," Lippman in a speech at the Citizens Crime Commission. "Far too many people are trapped in pre-trial detention simply because they are poor."

Lippman has pushed legislation to create statutory presumption that a defendant will be released without bail if the judge determines there is no risk to public safety or legitimate expectation that the person will not return to court.

While that legislation would need to pass into law to take effect, Lippman took measures Thursday to handle the issue administratively.

The judge directed the criminal courts in all five boroughs of the city to have a judge automatically review bail determinations whenever defendants charged with misdemeanor have been unable to make bail.

"This means the judge will take a fresh look at the case and make an independent determination whether the bail amount should be adjusted — higher or lower — or whether bail should be permitted in a less onerous form," Lippman said.

Lippman ordered regular, periodic judicial review of case viability and bail. When defendants are in custody pending disposition of the charges against them, he said, the new rules will require a status conference at designated milestones in the person's case. Lippman noted the case of a Bronx teen who committed suicide after spending at least 2 1/2 years in Rikers Island because he could not afford bail in a backpack robbery case based on a one witness, which was dismissed.

The judge is additionally ordering a pilot program in Manhattan where electronic supervision will be used to track defendants on pretrial release — and immediately locate them if they do not appear in court when needed. He said other states and the federal government have been using such techniques for 20 years.

rgavin@timesunion.com • 518-434-2403 • @RobertGavinTU

http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Chief-Judge-Jonathan-Lippman-announces-bail-6543158.php


Also, while working with a victims of homicide group we met with former inmates, all of whom were murderers, including one woman who shot her husband, one man who as a teen was the getaway driver for a robbery in which one of the robbers shot dead an armed guard, and a few others whose crimes I cannot now recall.

I learned about how unfairly Victims Impact Statements were being used long after sentencing in the parole hearing process. VIS are to be used only by the judge to help determine an appropriate sentence and after a jury verdict of guilty has been rendered.

Once one is sentenced, upon entry into the incarcerating facility they are given a set of rules to obey with certain goals clearly set out and these should be the only factors to be weighed in determining whether one should be granted parole. If they have exhibited "good behavior" and made strides towards or have accomplished all goals as set out upon entry, parole should be granted.

Yet time and time again, victims are present to read again and again their impact statements, year after year, hearing after hearing, and this is an injustice inherent in the system that must not be permitted any longer.

In my case the murderer committed suicide, so I was spared the anger and anguish of "carrying the torch by speaking for my dead child" at trial and at parole hearings ever after. (Honestly, how one can speak for anyone else, dead or alive?) But as victims, and they are indeed victims, they speak with their own voice and in place of their loved one, their anger they hold dear, feeling they are still doing all they can to defend their child or lost loved one, and sadly this unhelpful to anyone rage they embrace. All too often what they seek is revenge, not justice.

So, once a person has been convicted and received their sentence after weighing human impact upon family and/or friends, their release should be determined solely by their behavior in prison. Once sentencing has been issued, all victims involvement should cease to have bearing upon a convicts continued incarceration Imo, of course. It's also the law.
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