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Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:26 pm wrote:.stillrobertpaulsen » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:38 pm wrote:Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:19 pm wrote:.I have, however, come across information from other sources that strongly suggest that Biden's activities, and that of his son, are minimally worthy of investigation.
The only "other sources" I've seen suggesting that Biden's activities, and that of his son, should be investigated beyond the investigation that was already conducted, have major credibility gaps, to put it mildly. Could you link the ones that don't?
This investigation that was already conducted... which one was that?
That aside: the larger issue, of course, is that much of Biden's activities in the Ukraine, or China, are par for the course among 'top-tier' U.S. politicians on both sides of the aisle. The level of corruption they partake in is essentially accepted/normalized. For this reason, regardless of the merits, a proper investigation likely won't happen, for the same reasons why the Democratic Party won't push the scope of any impeachment proceedings to extend beyond its current very limited [and therefore, less likely to succeed] boundary: because Trump's more egregious impeachment-worthy actions would set a precedent for future presidents the Democrats [or Republicans] don't want to set.
This thread, if you haven't perused it yet, is worthy of attention [Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover]:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=41840
This Atlantic piece touches on my comments above:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... on/598804/
An excerpt:
Scratch into the bios of many former U.S. officials who were in charge of foreign or security policy in administrations of either party, and you will find “consulting” firms and hedge-fund gigs monetizing their names and connections.
Some of these gigs require more ethical compromises than others. When allegations of ethical lapses or wrongdoing surface against people on one side of the aisle, they can always claim that someone on the other side has done far worse. But taken together, all of these examples have contributed to a toxic norm. Joe Biden is the man who, as a senator, walked out of a dinner with Afghan President Hamid Karzai. Biden was one of the most vocal champions of anticorruption efforts in the Obama administration. So when this same Biden takes his son with him to China aboard Air Force Two, and within days Hunter joins the board of an investment advisory firm with stakes in China, it does not matter what father and son discussed. Joe Biden has enabled this brand of practice, made it bipartisan orthodoxy. And the ethical standard in these cases—people’s basic understanding of right and wrong—becomes whatever federal law allows. Which is a lot.
Who among us has not admired or supported people who have engaged in or provided cover for this kind of corruption? How did we convince ourselves it was not corruption? Impeachment alone will not end our national calamity. If we want to help our country heal, we must start holding ourselves, our friends, and our allies—and not just our enemies—to its highest standards.
Hunter obtains a $50,000/month board member position with Burisma, a Ukrainian gas company, months after Joe Biden backs a coup there, and he [Hunter] then lands a lucrative deal in China after his father flew him there on Air Force Two, but never mind all that: these people are pros. Plausible deniability is always their go-to option, and the Bidens are not so foolish as to conduct their business in a way that can lead to damning 'discovery' [though I may later be proven wrong here, depending on how events over the next 6 or so months transpire. Same can be said for Trump, of course].
In another reality, the above would absolutely be worthy of a thorough investigation.
So when this same Biden takes his son with him to China aboard Air Force Two, and within days Hunter joins the board of an investment advisory firm with stakes in China, it does not matter what father and son discussed.
Joe Biden has enabled this brand of practice, made it bipartisan orthodoxy.
And the ethical standard in these cases—people’s basic understanding of right and wrong—becomes whatever federal law allows. Which is a lot.
Who among us has not admired or supported people who have engaged in or provided cover for this kind of corruption? How did we convince ourselves it was not corruption?
Belligerent Savant » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:29 pm wrote:.
Excellent distillation.
This example illustrates why corruption is not a very useful category for understanding and rolling back the doings of the ruling class and the power elite. Corruption (like conspiracy) implies crime under an applicable law, an indictable crime. But that's rarely the case, and thus a distraction.
The valid categories are class and system. There is a two-tiered legal system, by design. There is a system of political economy and ownership designed to benefit and protect and grant legal impunity and privilege to the ruling class and its managers (in a sufficiently complex system the latter effectively become ruling class, or can be more important as members in the system, regardless of how big a chunk of property they own themselves).
RocketMan » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:15 am wrote:Belligerent Savant » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:29 pm wrote:.
Excellent distillation.
Yes, this is the REAL Deep State in the Peter Dale Scott, not Steve Bannon mode, and the essence of para-politics. To look for true motives and vectors of power in the "official" institutions just leads to a lifetime wondering in a wilderness of mirrors. You end up constantly wondering and never understanding just HOW someone like Trump COULD POSSIBLY MANAGE to gain the presidency and fuming at Mitch McConnell every evening on CNN while he at the exact same time yucks it up with Nancy Pelosi over shrimp at some function. But deploy the concepts of class, system and pecuniary interest and, while your anxiety might not go anywhere, at least you're not going completely insane and delusional.
alloneword » Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:37 pm wrote:^^^ Heh... good metaphor, as when they're performing, it's the same one bloke doing both funny voices and a hand up each of their arses.
That's the way to do it!
RocketMan » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:15 pm wrote:Belligerent Savant » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:29 pm wrote:.
Excellent distillation.
not to sound too obsequious but JackRiddler really classes up this place.
Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:23 pm wrote:.
A simple synopsis would suffice. I will not be scrolling through reams of MSM crap. I happened across your comment, that the charges are "false" -- which caught my attention -- and am now asking for you to back up this claim, in your own words.
JackRiddler wrote:This is why the disinformation thread has to be really, really, really, eternally long, so that the simple and self-evident stuff about right and wrong can be swamped in the faithful reproduction of every irrelevant corporate media piece on the matter. Also, it has to occupy top spot at all times -- above this thread, for example, which involves many mortal humans having a discussion that heretically allows for the idea that gee golly, maybe the vice-president's son shouldn't be following him around to see what foreign contracts he can enrich himself with on the simple basis of being the VP's son.
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