'Well, son of a bitch!' Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover-up.

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Re: 'Well, son of a bitch!' Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover-

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:23 pm

Right. And contrast this with our daily media diet of quotes, real or invented, from "sources" "speaking on condition of anonymity", who invariably back up whatever the approved or official story happens to be. Never do the hacks remind us that these anonymous assertions are made entirely without evidence.

And of course the Biden CFR Boast is evidence. They are just wilfully ignoring it. I'd be really curious to know if it's EVER been shown as part of any BBC news report on the whole impeachment to-and-fro. I doubt it. Maybe someone who owns a TV can let us know?
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Re: 'Well, son of a bitch!' Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover-

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:37 pm

Here's Jack's essay again again, which is great and which everyone should read, and which, in a just world, would be a front-page op-ed in the NYT.

On edit: on second thoughts, I reposted it to the RI Top 100 thread, so as not to stretch this one.
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Re: 'Well, son of a bitch!' Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover-

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:54 am

.

Cross-posting as it's relevant to this thread:


Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:26 pm wrote:.

stillrobertpaulsen » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:38 pm wrote:
Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:19 pm wrote:.I have, however, come across information from other sources that strongly suggest that Biden's activities, and that of his son, are minimally worthy of investigation.

The only "other sources" I've seen suggesting that Biden's activities, and that of his son, should be investigated beyond the investigation that was already conducted, have major credibility gaps, to put it mildly. Could you link the ones that don't?


This investigation that was already conducted... which one was that?

That aside: the larger issue, of course, is that much of Biden's activities in the Ukraine, or China, are par for the course among 'top-tier' U.S. politicians on both sides of the aisle. The level of corruption they partake in is essentially accepted/normalized. For this reason, regardless of the merits, a proper investigation likely won't happen, for the same reasons why the Democratic Party won't push the scope of any impeachment proceedings to extend beyond its current very limited [and therefore, less likely to succeed] boundary: because Trump's more egregious impeachment-worthy actions would set a precedent for future presidents the Democrats [or Republicans] don't want to set.

This thread, if you haven't perused it yet, is worthy of attention [Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover]:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=41840

This Atlantic piece touches on my comments above:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... on/598804/

An excerpt:


Scratch into the bios of many former U.S. officials who were in charge of foreign or security policy in administrations of either party, and you will find “consulting” firms and hedge-fund gigs monetizing their names and connections.

Some of these gigs require more ethical compromises than others. When allegations of ethical lapses or wrongdoing surface against people on one side of the aisle, they can always claim that someone on the other side has done far worse. But taken together, all of these examples have contributed to a toxic norm. Joe Biden is the man who, as a senator, walked out of a dinner with Afghan President Hamid Karzai. Biden was one of the most vocal champions of anticorruption efforts in the Obama administration. So when this same Biden takes his son with him to China aboard Air Force Two, and within days Hunter joins the board of an investment advisory firm with stakes in China, it does not matter what father and son discussed. Joe Biden has enabled this brand of practice, made it bipartisan orthodoxy. And the ethical standard in these cases—people’s basic understanding of right and wrong—becomes whatever federal law allows. Which is a lot.

Who among us has not admired or supported people who have engaged in or provided cover for this kind of corruption? How did we convince ourselves it was not corruption? Impeachment alone will not end our national calamity. If we want to help our country heal, we must start holding ourselves, our friends, and our allies—and not just our enemies—to its highest standards.



Hunter obtains a $50,000/month board member position with Burisma, a Ukrainian gas company, months after Joe Biden backs a coup there, and he [Hunter] then lands a lucrative deal in China after his father flew him there on Air Force Two, but never mind all that: these people are pros. Plausible deniability is always their go-to option, and the Bidens are not so foolish as to conduct their business in a way that can lead to damning 'discovery' [though I may later be proven wrong here, depending on how events over the next 6 or so months transpire. Same can be said for Trump, of course].

In another reality, the above would absolutely be worthy of a thorough investigation.
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Re: 'Well, son of a bitch!' Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover-

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:31 am

So when this same Biden takes his son with him to China aboard Air Force Two, and within days Hunter joins the board of an investment advisory firm with stakes in China, it does not matter what father and son discussed.


Correct. They did not need to discuss anything and they presumably are just smart enough to discuss nothing. It suffices that Hunter steps off the plane with his father, the Vice-President of the United States. Hunter no doubt has his appointments in China scheduled already. But, for the sake of argument, even if he didn't, he'd be approached soon enough!

Joe Biden has enabled this brand of practice, made it bipartisan orthodoxy.


Seriously exaggerated. He's a fish swimming in a pool that goes back 80 years, and that is similar to the pools that preceded it over prior centuries.

And the ethical standard in these cases—people’s basic understanding of right and wrong—becomes whatever federal law allows. Which is a lot.


Here's the key. It is not only what federal law allows, but how it was written and rewritten to legalize yesterday's corruption. In this, Biden would have played a role in the rewriting process.

Who among us has not admired or supported people who have engaged in or provided cover for this kind of corruption? How did we convince ourselves it was not corruption?


This example illustrates why corruption is not a very useful category for understanding and rolling back the doings of the ruling class and the power elite. Corruption (like conspiracy) implies crime under an applicable law, an indictable crime. But that's rarely the case, and thus a distraction.

The valid categories are class and system. There is a two-tiered legal system, by design. There is a system of political economy and ownership designed to benefit and protect and grant legal impunity and privilege to the ruling class and its managers (in a sufficiently complex system the latter effectively become ruling class, or can be more important as members in the system, regardless of how big a chunk of property they own themselves).

It goes back to conceptions and legal structures of property rights hundreds of years old, preceding the founding of the United States (the Constitution of which was practically a utopian project of this mode of thinking). A hundred turns later, and especially after the big neoliberal turn of which he was a small part, Biden's doings are the routine practice of a whole management class and a ruling class that celebrates nothing more than making money by whatever means are available, and that has begun to take on the qualities of a feudal caste.

Framing this as corruption is, first, overwhelmingly likely to fail in court, as if it would ever get that far. (Maybe in Ukraine, in abstentia!) And it is prone to bad apple or exemplary punishment theory, as if bringing down this one case would cleanse the system of the "corrupt," or, in the terms of the Creature from the NYNJ Development Mobster Swamp himself, "drain the swamp."

They will be found innocent of the supposed legal violations, as their actions will turn out to be legal. We all know it's happened that corporate-state lawyers have lobbied to legalize previously criminal behaviors that they then immediately engage in.

Second, it veils the systemic and routine nature of the actions, which are conducted as everyday business by tens of thousands within the upper class, and even perceived as necessary conduct in maintaining the system.

This can only be addressed through revolution, by whatever means. Other than full fascism, which would represent the worst and most catastrophic outcome, the likeliest revolution (and I'm not calling it likely) would involve a complete rewriting of the underlying legal code, which in many ways preceded the "market" system and the ideologies through which it is naturalized. Short of Bernie Sanders winning in an 82% landslide, and then improving on that in the midterms and reelection, it's hard to imagine. In other words, also impossible.

The difference between Biden and Trump, to repeat myself, is that although the latter began as ruling class and establishment by definition, as a big property owner and money launderer in NYNJ with excellent local political connections ("corruption") and total media cover for his "organization" (in fact, celebration as a success story), he is used to doing business on a more personal, bone-breaking level, through his personal diktats as owner of "property." He is unable or just doesn't want to adapt to the White House context. So he actually manages to find the loopholes by which his behavior can be framed by his opponents as genuinely in violation even of the "laws" reserved for the top tier.

However, this also fits his fascistic understanding of how things should work. He is the boss, his dictate should suffice. He doesn't do nuance, as Bush said of himself. He doesn't do winks and nods. His religious faith is in the vitalism of the lone entrepreneurial individual who creates all "wealth" through his will and creative power, even though he's pretty much the most sorry possible avatar of this fabled creature.

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Re: 'Well, son of a bitch!' Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover-

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:29 am

.
Excellent distillation.
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Re: 'Well, son of a bitch!' Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover-

Postby RocketMan » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:15 pm

Belligerent Savant » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:29 pm wrote:.
Excellent distillation.


Yes, I agree, not to sound too obsequious but JackRiddler really classes up this place.

This example illustrates why corruption is not a very useful category for understanding and rolling back the doings of the ruling class and the power elite. Corruption (like conspiracy) implies crime under an applicable law, an indictable crime. But that's rarely the case, and thus a distraction.

The valid categories are class and system. There is a two-tiered legal system, by design. There is a system of political economy and ownership designed to benefit and protect and grant legal impunity and privilege to the ruling class and its managers (in a sufficiently complex system the latter effectively become ruling class, or can be more important as members in the system, regardless of how big a chunk of property they own themselves).


Yes, this is the REAL Deep State in the Peter Dale Scott, not Steve Bannon mode, and the essence of para-politics. To look for true motives and vectors of power in the "official" institutions just leads to a lifetime wondering in a wilderness of mirrors. You end up constantly wondering and never understanding just HOW someone like Trump COULD POSSIBLY MANAGE to gain the presidency and fuming at Mitch McConnell every evening on CNN while he at the exact same time yucks it up with Nancy Pelosi over shrimp at some function. But deploy the concepts of class, system and pecuniary interest and, while your anxiety might not go anywhere, at least you're not going completely insane and delusional.
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Re: 'Well, son of a bitch!' Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover-

Postby NeonLX » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:24 pm

RocketMan » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:15 am wrote:
Belligerent Savant » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:29 pm wrote:.
Excellent distillation.


Yes, this is the REAL Deep State in the Peter Dale Scott, not Steve Bannon mode, and the essence of para-politics. To look for true motives and vectors of power in the "official" institutions just leads to a lifetime wondering in a wilderness of mirrors. You end up constantly wondering and never understanding just HOW someone like Trump COULD POSSIBLY MANAGE to gain the presidency and fuming at Mitch McConnell every evening on CNN while he at the exact same time yucks it up with Nancy Pelosi over shrimp at some function. But deploy the concepts of class, system and pecuniary interest and, while your anxiety might not go anywhere, at least you're not going completely insane and delusional.


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Re: 'Well, son of a bitch!' Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover-

Postby alloneword » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:37 pm

^^^ Heh... good metaphor, as when they're performing, it's the same one bloke doing both funny voices and a hand up each of their arses.

That's the way to do it! ;)
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Re: 'Well, son of a bitch!' Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover-

Postby NeonLX » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:40 pm

alloneword » Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:37 pm wrote:^^^ Heh... good metaphor, as when they're performing, it's the same one bloke doing both funny voices and a hand up each of their arses.

That's the way to do it! ;)


Hahaha. An even better illustration!
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Re: 'Well, son of a bitch!' Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover-

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:40 pm

(Thanks for comments above.)

Unsurprisingly, Aaron and Max are going to the same places, with some new details (being such dedicated research troopers).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACMfC4w8_NU
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Re: 'Well, son of a bitch!' Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover-

Postby Harvey » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:46 pm

RocketMan » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:15 pm wrote:
Belligerent Savant » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:29 pm wrote:.
Excellent distillation.


not to sound too obsequious but JackRiddler really classes up this place.



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Re: 'Well, son of a bitch!' Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover-

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:48 am

Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:23 pm wrote:.

A simple synopsis would suffice. I will not be scrolling through reams of MSM crap. I happened across your comment, that the charges are "false" -- which caught my attention -- and am now asking for you to back up this claim, in your own words.


Dude, you should know not to post in the disinfo thread started by the self-appointed disinfo-dissemination machine to shadow and displace this one. Anything you post there is going to disappear behind pages and pages of further corporate-media copy paste.

So a simple synopsis really wouldn't be the point, would it now?

Because a simple synopsis is really easy.

The activities of Hunter Biden are almost certainly legal. Various forms of corrupt self-enrichment by members of the policy-making class have always been legal. Also, many practices that were at times illegal have been legalized during the long neoliberal era. As long the club-members play by certain formalities, as we know, it's fucking legal to buy elections, to buy legislation and agencies, to buy the airwaves on key issues as a fake org. A billionaire donor can buy his way on to the DNC primary debate stage.

And since the Bidens are a family of professionals working in their own sector of grift (unlike Trump, who has moved off his grift into a grift he is not qualified for), these formalities probably were followed. There was, for example, probably no need for the profit-seeking incompetent son (just like Trump's, look at that!) to communicate with his father on the details of his ongoing grifts. The contractors in a coup country like Ukraine will all know who he is anyway.

Legality doesn't make it right. The bigger questions are, what kind of people are these, who take advantage of this legality to do something so self-evidently wrong? Why is this legal? Why is this systemic? Why would anyone think it is right, or ethically defensible? Why would anyone want to argue philosophically or morally to defend the behavior?

This is why the disinformation attack has to be really, really, really, eternally long, so that the simple and self-evident stuff about right and wrong can be swamped in the faithful reproduction of every irrelevant corporate media piece on the matter. Also, if on a message board, it has to occupy top spot at all times -- above this thread, for example, which involves many mortal humans having a discussion that heretically allows for the idea that gee golly, maybe the vice-president's son shouldn't be following him around to see what foreign contracts he can enrich himself with on the simple basis of being the VP's son.

Otherwise, the corporate media really, really, really want to focus on the secondary question of legality, so that people forget the simple question of right or wrong.

In this, "the investigations" end up assisting them. You might see this go into another one of these Benghazi things (well, in this case with a lot more basis than "Benghazi") and "the investigation" then goes on for nine thousand years, and nothing is found to have been illegal, because it wasn't.

This is one case where fire and brimstone condemnations are more appropriate. This is just wrong on its face.

Is it right for Hunter Biden to be called in to make $50,000 a month on the basis of his name?

Is it right for this mercenary operator to be facilitating a FRACKING company? (Another angle that gets ignored.)

Of course not. Ethically, morally, open and shut.

.
Last edited by JackRiddler on Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 'Well, son of a bitch!' Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover-

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:03 am

To add one more line, Jack, to your last:

But is to be expected and admired by capitalists, as this is how they always have operated, and they will continue conducting business as usual, until we put a stop to it. Good luck in achieving that lofty goal.
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Re: 'Well, son of a bitch!' Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover-

Postby RocketMan » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:27 am

JackRiddler wrote:This is why the disinformation thread has to be really, really, really, eternally long, so that the simple and self-evident stuff about right and wrong can be swamped in the faithful reproduction of every irrelevant corporate media piece on the matter. Also, it has to occupy top spot at all times -- above this thread, for example, which involves many mortal humans having a discussion that heretically allows for the idea that gee golly, maybe the vice-president's son shouldn't be following him around to see what foreign contracts he can enrich himself with on the simple basis of being the VP's son.


I'm still not convinced of malicious intent on this level but by golly does this make what has gone on on this board for the last few years more comprehensible.

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Re: 'Well, son of a bitch!' Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover-

Postby alloneword » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:43 am

Just dropping this here - I think it quite concise considering the ground it covers:

Impeachment, Brought to You by the CIA

For the first time in half a century, the political left in the U.S. is ascendant. Bernie Sanders is holding his own in the primaries. A group of well-considered programs to save the environment and provide good jobs and health care for all is gaining political traction. And the need is dire. The climate is warming, the seas are polluted and fished out and industrial agriculture threatens to end life on the planet. So, it’s time to change the subject?

Despite occasional warm gas passed in a leftish direction, establishment Democrats never had any intention of allowing a left political program to move forward. After four decades of asserting that they ‘believe’ climate science, the moment has arrived when the only political path forward is to take on their donors. Whatever your assessment of their motives, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer have no intention of doing this...


https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/10/04 ... y-the-cia/
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