Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

[FourthBase]

Mac, do you actually think there have only been four terrorist attacks in the US & UK this century?

Oh ffs heavens to betsy, I listed the four biggest ones, the four actual mass murders, according to your FBI's definition. But five, if you like, including Boston (3 dead).

Okay, so, yes, as I suspected, as you are confirming, you are definitely disconnected from reality. Not four, Mac, not five...keep going.

[nashvillebrook]

thank you FB.

with regard to someone fighting back, there was an off-duty, armed police officer who engaged him entering the club and was killed.

Rigorous intuition includes believing that a lone gunman with an AR15, or sig sauer, both semi-automatics which can't spray bullets, takes on 300 people and wounds or kills almost half of them? With no hard evidence?

They were unarmed fish in a fucking barrel. He didn't "take them on", because he faced absolutely zero resistance. It was target practice. They might as well have been first graders.

I don't know when you and the others here demanding "hard evidence" expect it. It's been a fucking week. I also suspect, based on your insane hoaxer history, that no form of evidence will ever be hard enough. Audio of the calls, pictures of corpses, security video...whenever it all does come out, you will update your priors? No. You won't.

I don't think a crack shot trained assassin or a special forces professional could pull off that kind of kill rate. We only believe this level of weapon handling is possible because of Rambo, The Terminator, etc.

Forgive me if this is too pointed:

YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Anyway, how did a guy the FBI was supposedly watching get hold of AR-15 in the first place?

Hey, a good question!

And what happened when he changed magazines? Made phone calls? Collected phones? Pledged allegiance to ISIS? Exchanged fire with police? No one grabbed a bottle or bottles and threw them at him? No one rushes him from behind. They just stand there and let this man shoot them? What? Because they were gay, they weren't able to defend themselves? Then, we get the story of the guy holding the exit door shut. Really? Against a hundred panicked--adrenaline charged--people?

Yep, apparently. People froze or fled. Nobody fought. How often in those situations do people fight back? How many people period are wise enough to understand that fighting back gives you the best odds, and brave enough to actually do it?

But be honest, hoaxmongerer, even if anyone fought back, you would find something just as darkly unbelievable about that, too.

If you've been paying attention since the very beginning you will have noticed key aspects of the narrative changing with certain stories and videos deleted as fast as they're posted. The numerous witnesses censored by the mainstream and social media?

Provide examples.

Then, the trouble identifying people at a nightclub? Have you ever gotten into a nightclub in the last 10 years without ID?

Hey, another good question!

[82_28]

Wait. The officer was killed? I'm trying to keep up. I hadn't heard he was killed as well.

[FourthBase]

Mac, do you actually think there have only been four terrorist attacks in the US & UK this century?

Oh ffs heavens to betsy, I listed the four biggest ones, the four actual mass murders, according to your FBI's definition. But five, if you like, including Boston (3 dead).

Okay, so, yes, as I suspected, as you are confirming, you are definitely disconnected from reality. Not four, Mac, not five...keep going.

Also, Mac, while I chuckle at your pathetic attempt to retroactively move the goalposts by restricting the meaning of "terrorist attack" to the FBI's definition of "mass murder", sorry, no, you are on record as actually believing there've only been four terrorist attacks in the US & UK this century. In the event that your deranged brain allows you to perceive the rest of them: Are they all PTB setups?

[MacCruiskeen]

Mac, do you actually think there have only been four terrorist attacks in the US & UK this century?

Oh ffs heavens to betsy, I listed the four biggest ones, the four actual mass murders, according to your FBI's definition. But five, if you like, including Boston (3 dead).

Okay, so, yes, as I suspected, as you are confirming, you are definitely disconnected from reality. Not four, Mac, not five...keep going.

Look, you disingenuous, dishonest, evasive, threadstretching, timewasting fascist bonehead, do it yourself. I am not going to list every poor bastard ever set up by your beloved FBI and sent to rot for life in one of your beloved profitable privatized "Supermax" jails. It would take too long, and in any case I am not your private nurse.

But here's some help, for I am not without charity:

Government agents 'directly involved' in most high-profile US terror plots

• Human Rights Watch documents 'sting' operations
• Report raises questions about post-9/11 civil rights

Nearly all of the highest-profile domestic terrorism plots in the United States since 9/11 featured the "direct involvement" of government agents or informants, a new report says.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/ ... ots-report

Some of the controversial "sting" operations "were proposed or led by informants", bordering on entrapment by law enforcement. Yet the courtroom obstacles to proving entrapment are significant, one of the reasons the stings persist.

The lengthy report, released on Monday by Human Rights Watch, raises questions about the US criminal justice system's ability to respect civil rights and due process in post-9/11 terrorism cases. It portrays a system that features not just the sting operations but secret evidence, anonymous juries, extensive pretrial detentions and convictions significantly removed from actual plots.

"In some cases the FBI may have created terrorists out of law-abiding individuals by suggesting the idea of taking terrorist action or encouraging the target to act," the report alleges.

See also:

Non-Muslims Carried Out More than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks in America

There's more, much more out there for anyone honestly interested in reality (or [cue laughtrack] justice).

And of course, being the kind of a guy you are, you deliberately omitted out the last line of my post, for you are (being the kind of a guy you are) reluctant to answer the questions:

So whodunnit, FourthBase? And did Dzhokhar Tsarnaev get a fair trial, d'you think? (While we wait for your considered reply, the suspense is bearable, for you are nothing if not unsurprising.)

[nashvillebrook]

This is how the jagged political angles are poking out, in actual fact.

If you're looking for fascist intent, it's not hard to find. Here's what an Orlando-area state attorney posted on social media immediately after the attack.

Basically this guy (prosecutor) is advocating using the tragedy to clamp down on our LGBT and international communities, and shut down private business. This is unthinkable shit. The fact that the Overton Window is cracked just this wide tells you all you need to know about FL political environment. There's fascism roiling just barely beneath the surface, and it's not swamp crazies riding their SeaDoos and 4-Wheelers out in Ocala. it's Chamber of Commerce and Disney MF'ers and their toady elected officials.

[nashvillebrook]

that's what's been reported. i'm having trouble keeping up as well. here's the full list of victims. not for nothing, but another Voice singer was killed, and he was Latino. shot in Chicago.


Stanley Almodovar III, 23 years old

Amanda Alvear, 25 years old

Oscar A Aracena-Montero, 26 years old

Rodolfo Ayala-Ayala, 33 years old

Antonio Davon Brown, 29 years old

Darryl Roman Burt II, 29 years old

Angel L. Candelario-Padro, 28 years old

Juan Chevez-Martinez, 25 years old

Luis Daniel Conde, 39 years old

Cory James Connell, 21 years old

Tevin Eugene Crosby, 25 years old

Deonka Deidra Drayton, 32 years old

Simon Adrian Carrillo Fernandez, 31 years old

Leroy Valentin Fernandez, 25 years old

Mercedez Marisol Flores, 26 years old

Peter O. Gonzalez-Cruz, 22 years old

Juan Ramon Guerrero, 22 years old

Paul Terrell Henry, 41 years old

Frank Hernandez, 27 years old

Miguel Angel Honorato, 30 years old

Javier Jorge-Reyes, 40 years old

Jason Benjamin Josaphat, 19 years old

Eddie Jamoldroy Justice, 30 years old

Anthony Luis Laureanodisla, 25 years old

Christopher Andrew Leinonen, 32 years old

Alejandro Barrios Martinez, 21 years old

Brenda Lee Marquez McCool, 49 years old

Gilberto Ramon Silva Menendez, 25 years old

Kimberly Morris, 37 years old

Akyra Monet Murray, 18 years old

Luis Omar Ocasio-Capo, 20 years old

Geraldo A. Ortiz-Jimenez, 25 years old

Eric Ivan Ortiz-Rivera, 36 years old

Joel Rayon Paniagua, 32 years old

Jean Carlos Mendez Perez, 35 years old

Enrique L. Rios, Jr., 25 years old

Jean C. Nives Rodriguez, 27 years old

Xavier Emmanuel Serrano Rosado, 35 years old

Christopher Joseph Sanfeliz, 24 years old

Yilmary Rodriguez Solivan, 24 years old

Edward Sotomayor Jr., 34 years old

Shane Evan Tomlinson, 33 years old

Martin Benitez Torres, 33 years old

Jonathan Antonio Camuy Vega, 24 years old

Juan P. Rivera Velazquez, 37 years old

Luis S. Vielma, 22 years old

Franky Jimmy Dejesus Velazquez, 50 years old

Luis Daniel Wilson-Leon, 37 years old

Jerald Arthur Wright, 31 years old

Wait. The officer was killed? I'm trying to keep up. I hadn't heard he was killed as well.

[FourthBase]

Mac, do you actually think there have only been four terrorist attacks in the US & UK this century?

Oh ffs heavens to betsy, I listed the four biggest ones, the four actual mass murders, according to your FBI's definition. But five, if you like, including Boston (3 dead).

Okay, so, yes, as I suspected, as you are confirming, you are definitely disconnected from reality. Not four, Mac, not five...keep going.

Look, you disingenuous, dishonest, evasive, threadstretching, timewasting fascist bonehead, do it yourself. I am not going to list every poor bastard ever set up by your beloved FBI and sent to rot for life in one of your beloved profitable privatized "Supermax" jails. It would take too long, and in any case I am not your private nurse.

So what you're saying is, yes, you believe that all terrorist attacks in the US & UK this century are PTB setups. Fort Hood would be a sixth per your new criteria. That, too? And then all the other ones...none of them are the work of just a violent Muslim fanatic attacking on his or her own?

But here's some help, for I am not without charity:

Government agents 'directly involved' in most high-profile US terror plots

• Human Rights Watch documents 'sting' operations
• Report raises questions about post-9/11 civil rights

Nearly all of the highest-profile domestic terrorism plots in the United States since 9/11 featured the "direct involvement" of government agents or informants, a new report says.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/ ... ots-report

Some of the controversial "sting" operations "were proposed or led by informants", bordering on entrapment by law enforcement. Yet the courtroom obstacles to proving entrapment are significant, one of the reasons the stings persist.

The lengthy report, released on Monday by Human Rights Watch, raises questions about the US criminal justice system's ability to respect civil rights and due process in post-9/11 terrorism cases. It portrays a system that features not just the sting operations but secret evidence, anonymous juries, extensive pretrial detentions and convictions significantly removed from actual plots.

"In some cases the FBI may have created terrorists out of law-abiding individuals by suggesting the idea of taking terrorist action or encouraging the target to act," the report alleges.

See also:

Non-Muslims Carried Out More than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks in America

There's more, much more out there for anyone honestly interested in reality (or [cue laughtrack] justice).

Nope. Irrelevant. "Nearly all" and the "highest profile" limit do not cut it. That still leaves room for actual, un-set-up Islamic terrorism. Which, being deranged, you do not seem to think exists. The amount of non-Muslim terrorism is irrelevant to the question, too.

And of course, being the kind of a guy you are, you deliberately omitted out the last line of my post, for you are (being the kind of a guy you are) reluctant to answer the questions:

So whodunnit, FourthBase? And did Dzhokhar Tsarnaev get a fair trial, d'you think? (While we wait for your considered reply, the suspense is bearable, for you are nothing if not unsurprising.)

Tsarnaev is guilty. Just like he admitted. Just like the jury found, and would have found 100/100 times in any kind of trial, fair or unfair. Who else is responsible is another question.

[MacCruiskeen]

Fourth Base, you just keep on exposing yourself for what you are: a dishonest, powerworshipping, timewasting fascist; QED. As you demonstrate for the zillionth time, it is a waste of time even addressing you because you are not honest; and in any case, this is an antifascist board. So I won't waste any more time with you.

Thankfully, most people on this board (or at least most visitors to it) are still capable of reading.

Enough, finally. 'Bye. And do drive carefully.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
^line drawn

Back on-topic, if humanly possible:

nashvillebrook, that is very interesting. Thank you for posting it.

If the FBI are really looking for someone with the means, motive and opportunity to organise a murderous attack on the Pulse nightclub, then they might think about interrogating (as a person of interest) any powerful rightwing Florida politicians with a demonstrable record of vicious anti-gay bigotry.

Where might the Feds start? Hmmm.... Not with a white man, obviously...

EDIT: typos And: This guy is not just virulently anti-gay but also virulently racist -- both of these demonstrably. Compare and contrast with the Designated Culprit, Omar Mateen (deceased, of course) -- a darkskinned bisexual Afghan-American, and a well-known regular at the club. And also the loving father of a very small son, whom we are instructed to believe he abandoned without a qualm.

[Agent Orange Cooper]

I'd probably add "racist" to that list of adjectives, Mac. Because I (sadly) think that's what, deep down, drives this fanatical belief in the FBI/CIA/MIC's phantom of "Islamic suicide terrorism." And obviously FB is not the only person suffering under this very deeply implanted delusion.

[82_28]

I think it matters not that it was a "PTB setup". It's like a wind up toy and you just let it go on its own. The mechanism has been set and see where it goes. Nobody wants this, but it keeps happening and power, profit and police state ensue.

[Nordic]

Watching this should be mandatory for anyone questioning how he could have entered while packing an AR15

[Nordic]

If you're saying that it wasn't LEE HARVEY OSWALD who shot THAT MAGIC BULLET AT JFK , you're beyond redemption. Look at his FRIENDS, the SOVIET UNION connection, whether there was some sort of coordination with THE CUBANS -- all of that is relevant. But dude -- OSWALD shot OUR PRESIDENT and AMERICA has reacted in the best way possible to a whole weekend of being under siege. Don't forget that this didn't start with OSWALD

[Nordic]

For those in Orlando, for whom this may have hit very close to home, is like to refer you to a thread I started iron a very real thing called "Terror Management Theory"

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39817

[MacCruiskeen]

I'd probably add "racist" to that list of adjectives, Mac.

Yes, definitely. Thanks, Agent Orange. (I'll amend my post accordingly.) Nearly all of the victims were latino or black. This was as much an attack on poc as it was on LGBT people. I've seen very little comment on that fact anywhere.

Because I (sadly) think that's what, deep down, drives this fanatical belief in the FBI/CIA/MIC's phantom of "Islamic suicide terrorism." And obviously FB is not the only person suffering under this very deeply implanted delusion.

Certainly. We could argue about whether the racism is a mere epiphenomenon or the actual driving force (i'd say the fundamental driving force behind the conjuring of that phantom is a grab for the "Middle East's" dwindling resources, backed up by repression of the entire domestic US population [PNAC]), but I think we are very much on the same page here. And that pasty-faced Master of the Universe's openly murderous contempt for "Untermenschen" of all kinds is certainly illuminating. He is a Person of Interest, all right.