Fuck Ron Paul

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Re: Fuck Ron Paul

Postby ninakat » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:51 pm

publius wrote:The lunacy of Ron Paul makes sense in the modern context of stagnant rhetoric. He is a whiff of populist white libertarianism with it's old fashioned ideology of "Don't Tread On Me." His appeal is romantic. People are hungry for a leader, a messiah, a daddy. From a distance without looking closely he sounds good. Then as you move closer and see who he is -the John Birch fellow traveller, friend of the KKK, friend of corporate subsidies, nativist, rhetorician-he is an atavistic throwback to the "good old days" of small town USA before World War I.

However, given that his opponents are equally evil, his anti-Federalist attitude gains traction in the electorates mind. Paul Craig Roberts supports him, influential monetary websites like Zero Hedge do also. He perhaps is seen as the less evil robber baron.

It is of great interest that there is no populist on the Left-no Upton Sinclair say-that is willing to be as forceful about ideas. Nor, interestingly, do the existing Left organizations wish to do more than promote Obama. The great vacuity of ideas in these United Sates creates the space for populist right rhtetoric.


That is such an excellent summation. Thank you, publius. The Ron Paul phenomenon is really a lot less about him than it is his followers, in my opinion. But I disagree that Paul Craig Roberts, Zero Hedge, and the multitudes of Paulbots out there see him as a less evil robber baron -- he really is the savior in their eyes, the one last hope for America. I find it terrifying that anyone would trust one word out of any politician's mouth in this day and age -- especially one with the dark associations Ron Paul has had for years, and continues to attract -- and especially a politician who sounds too good to be true (from a distance, as you said).

And how does Paul Craig Roberts square Ron Paul's vehement denials regarding 9/11 truth, for example -- something Paul Craig Roberts himself has embraced in a major way in many of his essays. I think people are hearing what they want to hear. Paul's playing them -- he's very shrewd. Think the cartoon Droopy. Image Why doesn't this sound familiar? We do have a sitting president who rode in as the savior, or have we forgotten? Is this insanity of repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results simply trumped by this supposed new flavor of politician: a libertarian underdog? It'll be different this time, you'll see! You know, much as people of true conscience like hearing about the wars ending and all the foreign U.S. military bases closing, I don't believe a word of it coming out of Ron Paul's mouth. He's yet another in a long line of con men with an ulterior motive. Fool me twice (more than that, actually), shame on me.

Regarding the lack of left leadership, I think the problem is that the left followership has disintegrated because it's been consumed by the corporatist state. In short, they sold out. Chris Hedges and others talk about this in depth. Here's a description of Hedges' Death of the Liberal Class on amazon:

    For decades the liberal class was a defense against the worst excesses of power. But the pillars of the liberal class— the press, universities, the labor movement, the Democratic Party, and liberal religious institutions—have collapsed. In its absence, the poor, the working class, and even the middle class no longer have a champion.

    In this searing polemic Chris Hedges indicts liberal institutions, including his former employer, the New York Times, who have distorted their basic beliefs in order to support unfettered capitalism, the national security state, globalization, and staggering income inequalities. Hedges argues that the death of the liberal class created a profound vacuum at the heart of American political life. And now speculators, war profiteers, and demagogues— from militias to the Tea Party—are filling the void.

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Re: Fuck Ron Paul

Postby publius » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:54 am

I would see the progressive movement differently. Emphasis is where the Left and Right converge politically quite schizophrenically. After Congress adjourned Sine Die citizens began incoherently killing citizens over the rights of free born citizens in some concept of Federal union, FORMERLY comprising a nation known as these United States with a legitimate government under Constitutional Law-a Republic. The progressives could not but be the post-traumatic children of the Administrative Age that built the Dynamo and raped and killed the Virgin earth. The creation of the Bureaucratic Robot Heel began with the Civil War. After the Civil War-I think of it as the First World War in minature complete with submarines and trenches and efficent artillery- a new national order was created as the Corporate United States. The new entity was a new nation. A corporate state. A military industrial complex. Scientific Capitalism. Progressive industrial age ideology was never Proudhonian. Their politics were those of uplift, not radical wealth redistribution or radical equality. The death in other words of real politics and it's replacement by measurements and expert policy. Now 10 years after the Auto-Golpe of September 11 the NDAA comes in the morning news. FEMA camps like so many reservations dot the land. Comes now Ron Paul. Perhaps in this context an archetype. A Fisher King. The last white hope of a dying white world buried by men of other worlds, of other colors, of other faiths, and other tounges. Gandalf/Merlinus as politican, a TRIBUNE of the People, who nobly runs for President and embodies, becomes, the pious hope of Gold, that there is a Constitution, Honest Mammonry and Honest Government. Israel cries out in distress Help Me God of Abraham, isaac, Washington, and Robert E. Lee! Americans pray Real Politics and not Real Politik. The promised land paradoxically for the American Right is mythologically pre-Wasteland, Dixie America and not Obama's Jim Crow.
“To think is easy. To act is hard. But the hardest thing in the world is to act in accordance with your thinking.”
― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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Re: Fuck Ron Paul

Postby barracuda » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:29 am

publius wrote: After Congress adjourned Sine Die


I enjoyed reading your post above, publius, but this is the second time you've mentioned the sine die adjournment of Congress - are you referring to the adjournment of March 27th, 1861?
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Re: Fuck Ron Paul

Postby publius » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:02 pm

Yes. "Without a day."
“To think is easy. To act is hard. But the hardest thing in the world is to act in accordance with your thinking.”
― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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Re: Fuck Ron Paul

Postby Searcher08 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:45 pm

Ranting Chanting "It's all a pile of shit" and "They are all the same" with a passion and a fashion that would make a TM practitioner envious in it's precision predictability serves no purpose other than to create a field of bad feeling. It retards / disempowers taking action.

As an illustration, the woman in this video has just informed the 'cynical leftie' man that Ron Paul gave away his house and sold his own organs to pay for medicine for starving third world kids.
This was his reaction.

:mrgreen:
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Re: Fuck Ron Paul

Postby publius » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:20 pm

Ni Dieu, Ni Maitre is individualistic. I simply do not see 300 million 'mericans embracing this idea.
“To think is easy. To act is hard. But the hardest thing in the world is to act in accordance with your thinking.”
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Re: Fuck Ron Paul

Postby compared2what? » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:31 am

publius wrote:Yes. "Without a day."


That's an accurate translation of the Latin words "sine die" yes. But that's obviously not what it means in this context:

Congress adjourned sine die


Because that would be senseless.

Rather, it means "Congress adjourned for the final time."

But every congress does that every two years. Like clockwork. So why the distinction?
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
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Re: Fuck Ron Paul

Postby barracuda » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:18 am

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Re: Fuck Ron Paul

Postby publius » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:17 am

usa-the-republic.com/.../US%20legal%20history.html -No de jure, constitutional Congress has existed since March 27, 1861 when seven (7) Southern States walked out of Congress leaving Congress without a quorum for adjourning and therefore ending sine die. That which is called “Congress” today assembles and acts under the authority of the President acting in capacity of being Commander-In-Chief of the Armed Forces, under emergency war-powers rule, i.e. “law of necessity,” i.e. no law (see 12 Stat 319, which has never been repealed and exists in Title 50 USC §§ 212, 213, 215, Appendix 16, 26 CFR Chapter 1 § 303.1-6(a), and 31 CFR Chapter 5 § 500.701 Penalties).

3. Since the above-referenced date, March 27, 1861, Americans have been under Fascist rule via presidential executive order under the aforementioned Emergency War Powers, 12 USC 95 a,
===
This is the line of thought. One government pre-Civil War, and another after.
“To think is easy. To act is hard. But the hardest thing in the world is to act in accordance with your thinking.”
― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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Re: Fuck Ron Paul

Postby compared2what? » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:36 am

^^But....Well, you know:

According to that logic, there hasn't been a legitimate British monarch since the American Revolution. Which is to say, it's a completely daft assertion that doesn't make one whit of sense, even on its own terms.

I mean, what part of the constitution rescinds Article 1 for all eternity if representatives from seven (7) Southern states decide to violate Section 10 by walking out of the 37th Congress of the United States and forming a confederation? Even if the ensuing four years of bloody civil war hadn't eventually been settled de jure -- which, incidentally, they were -- there's no common-law precedent for holding that no session of Congress can be constitutionally convened following the irregular adjournment of a previous session. Those are two entirely separate and discrete issues, de jure. Res ipsa loquitur.
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
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Postby IanEye » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:33 am

publius wrote:The progressives could not but be the post-traumatic children of the Administrative Age that built the Dynamo and raped and killed the Virgin earth.

- - -

Americans pray Real Politics and not Real Politik. The promised land paradoxically for the American Right is mythologically pre-Wasteland, Dixie America and not Obama's Jim Crow.

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Re: Fuck Ron Paul

Postby Bruce Dazzling » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:30 pm

Martin Luther King + Ron Paul + The Journey Toward A More Perfect Union…
Staff Writer; Arthur Lewin
ThyBlackMan.com
January 16, 2012

Ron Paul said, “Martin Luther King is one of my heroes.” because of his advocacy and practice of civil disobedience. But was he being on the level? Well, let’s see. Let’s start at the very beginning. . .

They declared that they were free of any and all other powers save that of the Almighty. And so one man was tasked with making a draft of the formal statement of their independent stance. Thoughtfully he wrote, on that first fourth of July, in 1776, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. . .”

But what of the men, women and children in bondage? Did they not also have rights that can never be taken away from them? Not to him and his fellows. They did not count. In fact, Thomas Jefferson, the man who penned those immortal lines, held the largest number of human beings in chains than anyone else in the colonies. And so, 87 years later. . .

A gaunt, black clad figure in a stovepipe hat arose, bared his bushy head and looked out at the crowds gathered on the grounds of the enormous cemetery. Here, men by the many thousands their copious blood they did shed, in the fiercest battle of a horrific conflict that then still raged. Now, though, could be seen a faint flicker of light at the end of the tunnel signaling perhaps and end to the carnage, and so Abraham Lincoln said in his Gettysburg Address,

“Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought for on this continent a new nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal,” and he went on to promise, “that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. . .“ (November 19, 1863)

And when the guns eventually did go silent, the new birth came, but it died in infancy. And so, exactly 100 years later (August 28, 1963), standing in the shadow of a stupendous alabaster monument of the Great Emancipator, a small, powerful Black man arose, looked out upon the throng stretching to the horizon, and with a mighty voice that we can still hear, he proudly declared,

“I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal.’. . I have a dream that one day. . . little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers!”

A little black boy, but two years old at the time, exactly 45 years later to the day, (August 28, 2008), stood before a wildly cheering crowd to accept the nomination of his party to become the president of the United States, which he did in three months time. The Dream at last? But yet again, it did not come to pass. Nonetheless, three years later to the day (August 28, 2011), they planned to unveil an alabaster monumental likeness of the Man Who Had a Dream, as if to say it had.

But, as the best laid plans of mice and men are wont to do, things went awry. On August 23, 2011, the earth shook so hard it cracked the towering white phallic symbol to the first president, highest structure bar none in the capital city that bears his name, while two and one half hundred miles away, the greatest city in the land, and in the world some would say, saw its skyscrapers for the first time ever shudder and sway.

20 weeks and a day after the scheduled unveiling, January 16, 2011, the twenty-sixth celebration of the day set aside to honor America’s revered Black icon, the Reverend Martin Luther King, jr., five white men are set to gather, and each present their case, as to why they should be picked to try and replace the Black ruler that captains the nation. One of them, old and wizened, but nonetheless a champion of the young, invoked the spirit of the man called King. Did he have a right to, or is he, like so many others, naught but a usurper?

What exactly have we come to?

On the airwaves the Fairness Doctrine is no more. Anyone can pay to say anything without any rebuttal at all. And money is given free rein to support any candidate for anything. But wait, perhaps this is as it should be! After all, the stations on the left counter those on the right, and vice versa, don‘t they? And the favored contenders for the crown, with money to spare, have thus stripped each other bare in the public square. And so, will the wise old one with legions of the young, whom the cameras studiously avoid, end up being the last man standing to do battle with Barack Hussein Obama? Then shall the winner take us the rest of the way to realizing the elusive Dream, a perfect union, at last?

Imagine that debate. Each man would have to defend his record and lay out his vision, to win the hearts and minds of the people of the nation, that on the world stage holds pride of place, but somehow has yet to come to grips with the original, and still pending, issue of race.


President Obama would have to address the shameful mass incarceration of the Black and the poor and the Brown. And Ron Paul would be called upon to explain his initial opposition to the King holiday and the sometimes hateful newsletters that once appeared under his name. And he, in turn, would doubtless call out the president for the useless wars we’re fighting, and the many we appear to be planning. And Obama would certainly take Ron Paul to task for proposing that to the side, the already fragile social safety net be cast. What a contest that would be! Will it come to pass? We shall see. . .

Oh, yes, the question we first asked. Ron Paul said, “Martin Luther King is one of my heroes.” But is he telling the truth?

You say you want to know what I think? You want to know my opinion on the matter? Why?

A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Don’t let others do your thinking for you.
"Arrogance is experiential and environmental in cause. Human experience can make and unmake arrogance. Ours is about to get unmade."

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Re: Fuck Ron Paul

Postby publius » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:33 pm

I think the argument is logical. The old nation died in the Civil War. The new nation came into being formally in 1871.

We must go back to the year 1871, which was the beginning of the decline of the ... In essence, this Act formed the corporation known as THE UNITED STATES. ...
http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/us_corporation.htm - Cached - Similar


Actually after the Brits cut the head off of Charles I, had a Lord Proptector, then a Restoration, then a Glorious Revolution they went through some changes in the Monarchy-just to have a Bank of England that the Stuarts never desired to see..
===
So a line of argument is simply that 1871 was a different nation than 1861. A different government.
And that government opened up the Gilded Age. Dixie was the old world, 1871 the New.

Republic to Empire.
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Re: Fuck Ron Paul

Postby barracuda » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:44 pm

Any argument which neatly invalidates the Reconstruction amendments is going to be extremely attractive to certain people. If you know what I mean.
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Re: Fuck Ron Paul

Postby Elihu » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:10 pm

is going to be extremely attractive to certain people. If you know what I mean.
racist. it's okay to say what you mean cuda. end of discussion for certain people. if you know what i mean.
We must go back to the year 1871, which was the beginning of the decline of the ... In essence, this Act formed the corporation known as THE UNITED STATES. ...
http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/us_corporation.htm - Cached - Similar
i don't doubt that this happened. i wasn't around in 1871 and hence can't compare but it would explain the stupendous stultifying craven cupidity of what passes for public pronouncements as i experience them today. after all, what do corporations do 24/7? marketing.
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