Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby justdrew » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:50 am

justdrew wrote:another possibility is: it's a matter of programming, but malfunctioning programming. wrong time, wrong place, wrong target, never intentionally triggered.

as for where did the programming come from? Perhaps it's possible in the right circumstances for a person to become self-programmed in some way. a train of thought becomes cyclical and self-reinforcing, it seeks more content, eventually a sub-conscious thought structure capable of motivating real-world actions could assemble itself into existence, while the person remains somewhat to completely unaware of it's presence and potential. Sort of a meme-concretion, assembled from free-floating psychological content present in environment. Thankfully such things are not generally transmissible, as they're custom built in each head. Although there may be fairly complex sub-units or seed-crystals that are readily transmissible.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:57 am

12#4 wrote:This is just "you suck" internet discourse posturing I think, of the tween variety. The poster could have easily gotten this information by reading his copy of the Newtown Bee, by watching CNN/NBC/FOX or even from taking to a real-life person. I was not at his computer or inside of his head when he typed it but I certainly believe he did so with the full beliefs he expressed and a rational reason to put his words into the record of digital memory, joining many, many others touched by this tragic event who have no ill intentions and shouldn't be regarded as paranoid, delusional or ignorant.


Okay, point taken. I apologize, Mac, for the petulance. But the question remains: why trust CNN/NBC/FOX by assuming a factual reportage of the death of Mrs. Lanza and disregard the same sources on these other matters? They never saw the body. They were told by the police.

I assure you, plenty of persons writing on these fine old internets do not believe in the death or existence of Nancy Lanza.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby compared2what? » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:16 am

lupercal wrote:
compared2what? wrote:I can't speak for the whole population. But personally, I have too much specific pain and sorrow in my life.to waste any of my bafflement or anything else on distant people, irrespective of their abstract quoted qualities. Way too much. Seriously. If it gets any worse, I might even have to start complaining about it or something.

And I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on that one. But who knows?


Oh no, you're not alone. In fact, you're in a famous story! Maybe you've heard it?

"I wish to be left alone," said C2W. "I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned -- they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there."

"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."

"If they would rather die," said C2W, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. Besides -- excuse me -- I don't know that."

"But you might know it," observed the gentleman.

"It's not my business," C2W returned. "It's enough for a man to understand his own business, and not to interfere with other people's. Mine occupies me constantly. Good afternoon, gentlemen!"


Well put, C2W!

......................

p.s. if there's really some serious trouble in your life C2W I'm sorry to hear it. :hug1:


Thanks. Right back atcha.

Also....You're right that what I wrote reads as if I meant that I didn't care about non-immediate, non-personal suffering. But I really didn't. I wasn't actually even disagreeing with Mac, in, like, any oppositional kind of a way. I was just trying to say a very simple thing. That's never been my forte, though. Of course..

Back to topic.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Elvis » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:25 am

lupercal wrote:
Image



Image

...for missing my point entirely. Those videos alone wither your arguments about the AR-15 and a young man's ability to use it (whether or not Adam Lanza shot anyone).
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby lupercal » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:48 am

^ :lol: \<]
..........
Alistair Sim lends some late Bushmas cheer:



and now back to our regularly scheduled psy-op. . .
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:50 am

Lupe, I'm rather surprised that you are so unforgiving, but enough of that. Let it suffice to say that my opinion of you has lowered. But I still like you!

One thing that seems to have slipped everyone's attention is that it was reported early on that his rifle was modified. Taping 3 30 round clips side by side cannot be considered a "modification." Mr. WRex might affirm this. Generally, when law enforcement or those familiar with firearms speak of a semi-automatic weapon being modified they are not talking about its clips. (I got up to p.6 searching for the reference, so it's somewhere after.)

So what if this bushmaster was modified to fire 3 rounds per pull of the trigger?

As much as I hate to do this, young children's bones and bodies are soft and a single bullet could have passed through several bodies before coming to a rest. Multiple injuries and deaths from one bullet. Perhaps 3 rounds fired for every trigger-pull would account for the large number of wounds?

The muzzle velocity is very fast, faster than the speed of sound, traveling over 3200' per second.

And considering this weapon was never intended to be fully automatic, it most probably lacked the heavier barrel the GI issue is equipped with, so it would get hot but it could easily still fire 300 rounds in 10 minutes. The fully auto version can fire 800 rounds per minute.

While I may believe he was nothing more than a demanding spoiled child of privilege who just got pissed off with his mom for not getting his way, I have not discounted the woo factor from playing a role in these slayings.

So how about the school itself was usap? The principal the head trainer perhaps, and the alleged a former student-trainee? Revenge for fucking with his mind. And "saving" those kids from who knows what might lie ahead for them.

But if it were, why not consider time transport? You know, the shooters who just seem to "disappear"?
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby daedelus » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:30 pm

Piecing together various reports on Lanza's technique and equipment I'm left with not being sure one way or the other whether one lone shooter could pull this off. I mean it seems doable...

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/newtown-sandy-hook-school-shooting/hc-sandyhook-lanza-earplugs-20130106,0,2370630.story

As police wrap up at least the crime-scene portion of their investigation into Lanza's murderous spree that left 26 people dead in the school, including 20 first-graders, the earplugs are not the only evidence that shows Lanza might have carried habits either from the shooting range or the virtual world of video games into his real-world massacre.

Lanza changed magazines frequently as he fired his way through the first-grade classrooms of Lauren Rousseau and Victoria Soto, sometimes shooting as few as 15 shots from a 30-round magazine, sources said.


Investigators have not said how many shots Lanza fired with the Bushmaster semiautomatic rifle after he entered the school by firing half a dozen rounds through the glass at the school entrance. Sources said that he fired approximately 150 rounds during the shooting spree.


So if we take it that he fired somewhere between 100 and 200 rounds, and swapped out 30 round clips after only firing, say 20 rounds instead of the full magazine, ejected and flipped his "jungle-taped" clips, it seems likely he'd have had to stop shooting six or seven times during his "5 to 10-minute" walk around the school. All reports seem to say that he was methodical and accurate which implies taking his time to aim rather than willy nilly spraying bullets everywhere. Since the ammo has been reported by the coroner to be frangible, I'm assuming it is unlikely that any bullets did damage to more than one victim at a time (though that could be way off in that frangible bullets aren't designed for use on children's mush less dense bodies...)

The coroner also stated that of the seven autopsies her personally performed, there were between 3 and 11 bullet wounds. Let's say an average of 7 shots per victim??? (x26 victims) = 182 times to aim and shoot. That's probably close to 3 minutes worth of time right there. Adding in the time enter the school, walk around to various rooms, and swapping out of clips and we're probably pretty close to the five minute mark for the whole thing. Of course this is all speculation, but it does seem doable by a single person. That however doesn't makes any clarifications as regards the police scanner reports of "two shooters (shadows?) running past the gym" or the other camo pants guy taken into custody by the police. Or the other shadow moving through the woods as seen on the helicopter footage.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-timeline-details-lanza-massacre-article-1.1221904
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby dbcooper41 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:36 pm

regardless of his ability to pull the trigger that fast, wouldn't the targets(children) have run, hid, ran around screaming in terror , whatever, once the shooting started?
or did they all just stand there like good kids and get shot?
would a lone guman be able to control them and fire several hundred rounds. most of them hitting a target?
getting back to lauren rousseau's very bad day(wrong place, wrong time).
if her car was hit 3 times(supposedly by shots from inside), did the shooter actually hold his position and fire 3 indentical shots at targets inside and each one managed to pass through the school windows and find ms rousseau's car?

another thing, has anyone heard of the teacher she was subbing for that day? seems it would make a good human interest story. she must be filled with grief knowing a lovely young lady died in her place.

something else that seems peculiar, who declared so many of the victim dead on the scene?
why were so few loaded into ambulances and rushed to the ER?(i believe i read at least 2 were taken to the danbury hospital where emilie's dad, robert parker worked in neo natal intensive care).

in the heat of the moment it seems mightly cold to declare them dead without even attempting to treat them.
wouldn't the prudent thing be to load them up in ambulances, administer emergency treatment en route, and get them to an ER ASAP?
and why send all the ambulances away except for the newtown volunteer emts?


i'm sure someone will offer a logical explanation for all of this but it does seem highly improbable.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:16 pm

dbcooper41 wrote:regardless of his ability to pull the trigger that fast, wouldn't the targets(children) have run, hid, ran around screaming in terror , whatever, once the shooting started? or did they all just stand there like good kids and get shot?


Hi dbcooper41. Resident thread gatekeeper here. I think it depends upon the scenario. Most six-year olds can be easily cowed by yelling. Believe it or not, it's pretty easy to reduce six-year olds to crying and cringing. There were a few reports of just this type of activity - shouting and screaming from the shooter. The shooter apparently shot Rousseau in the face when he entered the classroom, and her students were found in a huddle. The one surviving child and one who survived but subsequently died en route to the hospital were apparently at the bottom of the huddle, and were likely protected by the other children's bodies. This type of huddling is totally characteristic of little kids.

would a lone guman be able to control them and fire several hundred rounds. most of them hitting a target?


Think of the space they were in. Think of the size of a typical first-grade classroom holding sixteen students, and imagine the coverage you'd get by bumping the trigger as shown in the videos upthread. Realistically, this is how you wind up with eleven bullets in a six-year old - by spraying at extreme close range, under twenty feet away. It also explains the multiple wounds in all the victims. He's not really aiming at individual targets except in the roughest sense.

But apparently students in Soto's class were already being hidden when the shooter burst in, and some of them tried to run for it only to be shot. Again, I'm assuming the shooter is spraying bullets, not unlike a machine gun. It's probably pretty easy to hit even a child-size target at such close range if you use enough lead.

getting back to lauren rousseau's very bad day(wrong place, wrong time).
if her car was hit 3 times(supposedly by shots from inside), did the shooter actually hold his position and fire 3 indentical shots at targets inside and each one managed to pass through the school windows and find ms rousseau's car?


The bump shooting could account for this grouping, bullets being sprayed around in grouped bursts and finding windows.

another thing, has anyone heard of the teacher she was subbing for that day? seems it would make a good human interest story. she must be filled with grief knowing a lovely young lady died in her place.


Rousseau was a permanent sub, meaning she had taken over for a teacher out on a long-term absence, usually due to illness or surgery. But yeah, that would make a great interview: "You realize of course that your probably fake illness caused the death of a beloved wife and mother, don't you? DON'T YOU??? WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT??? NOW CRY."

something else that seems peculiar, who declared so many of the victim dead on the scene?


Multiple wounds on a six-year old? Frangible rounds = massive wounds. I think the emergency medical personnel can pretty easily tell a dead person from a live one. Triage procedures in effect.

I hope that helps keep the gate closed for you. I'd hate to see any theories get by me without being shepherded back to a bland quotidian.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby dbcooper41 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:06 pm

Resident thread gatekeeper here.

at least you didn't say "IANAGK" :wink

i knew there was a simple explanation for all of this but:

getting back to lauren rousseau's very bad day(wrong place, wrong time).
if her car was hit 3 times(supposedly by shots from inside), did the shooter actually hold his position and fire 3 indentical shots at targets inside and each one managed to pass through the school windows and find ms rousseau's car?


The bump shooting could account for this grouping, bullets being sprayed around in grouped bursts and finding windows.


IANAGN(i am not a gun nut) but, after passing through a body, and a window would frangible(has this been verified?) bullets remain intact enough to penetrate a car door several hundred feet away? i have no idea but i guess it is possible.
but again, he would need to hold a very steady line to have them stay that tightly grouped at that distance.



"You realize of course that your probably fake illness caused the death of a beloved wife and mother, don't you?


i was not aware the teacher had laid out with a fake illness that day.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:22 pm

dbcooper41 wrote:IANAGN(i am not a gun nut) but, after passing through a body, and a window would frangible(has this been verified?) bullets remain intact enough to penetrate a car door several hundred feet away? i have no idea but i guess it is possible.
but again, he would need to hold a very steady line to have them stay that tightly grouped at that distance.


I'm thinking he must have either missed his targets while spraying bullets or shot outside on purpose. Regarding frangibles, there seem to be a variety of types of rounds called that with different characteristics. It would be useful to know what ammo he was using.

Anyway, I just did a google image search for "frangible bullet wound pig" and it wasn't altogether a pleasant experience. So I'm pretty much done with that line of inquiry.

dbcooper41 wrote:i was not aware the teacher had laid out with a fake illness that day.


They probably didn't, but it would probably make the interview more dramatic to claim they did. I mean, if you're gonna interview someone for a human interest story on the basis that their totally innocent action or lack of action lead inexorably to the violent and bloody death of a lovely young woman, I assume you want to go the whole route and throw in some nice baseless accusations for cake icing.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:06 pm

For frak's sake, go ahead and speculate like crazy on an MK background for the shooter, since it's not impossible. But how much farther can you take this naive put-on about the supposed difficulties of massacring a classroom of six-year-olds with a rapid-shooting rifle and hundreds of rounds of ammunition? The hardest part is being fucked up enough in the head and heart to go ahead and do such a thing, and that would be equally true of one, two or more shooters. Or the put-on about how mysterious it is that out of hundreds of rounds fired some ended up all over the place. Or how weird that the children are shredded and dead on the spot and don't escape or organize a successful resistance. Is this some kind of joke where you pretend you're from another planet and don't really know what a six-year-old is?
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby dbcooper41 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:22 pm

you're right of course and i apologize for wasting the board's time and bandwidth.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Pele'sDaughter » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:30 pm

This has been floated a few places. Is there are quick explanation? Just a total hoax?

http://rmtowersconspiracy.wordpress.com ... soto-page/
Don't believe anything they say.
And at the same time,
Don't believe that they say anything without a reason.
---Immanuel Kant
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby compared2what? » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:48 pm

dbcooper41 wrote:you're right of course and i apologize for wasting the board's time and bandwidth.


Well....If that was what you intended to by posting, okay. But assuming that it wasn't, you weren't doing it. So you unequivocally and simply have nothing to apologize for on that score. And that's equally true whether Jack is right or wrong.

...

That's all, I guess. I hope I didn't misunderstand you.
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