Aurora CO Theater Massacre

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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby Hammer of Los » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:01 am

...

The navy girl is the first to move.

She runs as soon as she smells teargas.

She is shot in the back with a shotgun, a close range weapon.

So does he switch to the shotgun as soon as he releases the tear gas?

Or the automatic rifle?

Does he after shooting the navy girl put the shotgun down and switch to an automatic or semi or whatever?

Does he have all these guns and weapons strapped across his person?

I don't know nuthin' about guns really.

I'm just an old man with a walking stick.

Who can smell something fishy.

...
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby lupercal » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:22 am

^ A 07/27 Denver Post article on the Aurora injuries describes wounds from "high-caliber weapons" including shotguns, rifles, and pistols, also from teargas, shrapnel and trampling. Several personnel remark on the similarity to military injuries:

And at University of Colorado Hospital, they arrived with little warning — 23 patients, the most among the six facilities that treated casualties — and with wounds that spoke to the firepower wielded by their assailant.

"It felt like you were at war,"
said Dr. Comilla Sasson, one of two attending physicians working the overnight shift. "The sheer number of people you're seeing, and the extent of their injuries, is so unnatural."


Many of the 58 injured suffered the sort of multiple gunshot wounds that conjured visions of a battlefield rather than the suburban theater where the gunman also killed 12 others attending the release of a new Batman film.

"Tissue destruction was massive" from high-caliber weapons, said Dr. Frank Lansville, medical director of emergency services at the Medical Center of Aurora, which treated 18 victims.


At Medical Center of Aurora, Lansville described the first wave of arrivals as life-threatening gunshot wounds to the head and neck, the chest, or the abdomen. Those with head wounds were intubated, if necessary, then resuscitated if they had stopped breathing. Those patients get top priority. . . .

The next group to arrive had extremity wounds, severe soft-tissue damage or bone damage from shotgun blasts and rifle or pistol bullets. Doctors mapped soft-tissue damage and looked for a pulse in that extremity — "where the holes are," Lansville said.

The last to arrive had felt the effect of the fumes from the gas canisters tossed by the assailant, of shrapnel cuts sliced open by flying debris, or of falling and trampling injuries caused by the jostling crowd and panic.

In the final wave of patients, Lansville said, grazing gunshot wounds bled profusely but could be treated quickly. Those patients, after some X-rays to assure there was nothing deeper, were soon released Friday morning.


http://www.denverpost.com/theatershooti ... ms-emerges

So the conclusions I draw are that a) yes, there were multiple weapons being fired at once, and not randomly, and b) the shooters were trained military personnel, not amateurs. That's pretty much been SOP in all these shootings, including nearby Littleton.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby lupercal » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:37 am

Several survivors in videos and print reports have recalled that shooters aimed at people, for example in this CNN account:

Thirteen-year-old Kaylan was Veronica's babysitter, and she was seated with the girl and Veronica's mother when the shooting began. "He just kept firing and then he would stop like he was reloading and he kept firing at anyone he saw," Kaylan told CNN's Poppy Harlow.

Kaylan watched as three people with her were shot -- Veronica, the girl's mother, Ashley Moser, and their pastor, Michael Walker.


Considering that at least two of of twelve victims were military personnel involved in cyberspying and at least one was a Naval intelligence officer it's also possible that shooters were stopping to look for specific targets:

Childress, an Air Force reservist, was a cybersystems operator on active duty with the 310th Force Support Squadron at Buckley Air Force Base in Colorado. He was from Thornton, Colorado.


Petty Officer 3rd Class John Thomas Larimer, 27. Like his father and grandfather, Larimer chose to join the U.S. Navy. . . . His unit, part of U.S. Fleet Cyber Command/U.S. 10th Fleet, was stationed at Buckley AFB.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/21/us/colora ... index.html
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby Hammer of Los » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:39 am

...

Thanks a ton loopy.

Not so loopy, eh?

...
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:43 am

norton ash wrote:
“I was a threat to no one, I didn’t threaten anybody,” Mapes said.


Why are you such a stupid, insensitive asshole, Mr. Mapes? And while we're here, just how small IS your cock?


:lol:

Couldn't let that one go unacknowledged. My guess is that he would take the Fifth.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby Burnt Hill » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:12 am

To this train of thought-
there were multiple weapons being fired at once, and not randomly, and b) the shooters were trained military personnel, not amateurs

-But only 12 dead? If this were a trained military op with multiple perps hardly anyone gets out of the theater alive.
If this is a conspiracy by other than Holmes then to what ends?
Why set up a nerdy red head? There is no fear factor, in fact he is garnering sympathy(a little, misplaced).
"Death to the Neuroscientists, go USA"!!?
I can speculate an accomplice, most everything else seems a leap too far.
With what we know, anyway.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby undead » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:50 pm

-But only 12 dead? If this were a trained military op with multiple perps hardly anyone gets out of the theater alive.


I think this train of thought goes that there were specific military targets for some reason. After all if you wanted to just kill everybody a bomb would be much easier.

I'm not really invested in any particular story I was just remarking that it is pretty impressive for this kid to bust in with a massive assault rifle and a shot gun AND teargas AND full body armor and shoot up the place. That shit has to be really heavy.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby Elvis » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:01 pm




Just a note---AR15 is not a fully automatic rifle. However, one can pull the trigger pretty fast, and I've emptied those long clips in a (semiauto) AR15 in just a few seconds.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby Burnt Hill » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:10 pm

undead wrote:
-But only 12 dead? If this were a trained military op with multiple perps hardly anyone gets out of the theater alive.


I think this train of thought goes that there were specific military targets for some reason. After all if you wanted to just kill everybody a bomb would be much easier.

I'm not really invested in any particular story I was just remarking that it is pretty impressive for this kid to bust in with a massive assault rifle and a shot gun AND teargas AND full body armor and shoot up the place. That shit has to be really heavy.


Interesting take. Bears a harder look.
I started to speculate that I could walk into a theater a take out more than 12 with much less firepower, but no, I couldnt.
And Holmes behavior post-massacre could describe someone coming down from some heavy shit, both literally and figuratively.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby barracuda » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:16 pm

undead wrote:I'm not really invested in any particular story I was just remarking that it is pretty impressive for this kid to bust in with a massive assault rifle and a shot gun AND teargas AND full body armor and shoot up the place. That shit has to be really heavy.


Holmes was not wearing full body armor. And the Smith & Wesson M&P15 is not a heavy gun, being manufactured largely from polymer for the express purpose of weight reduction.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby Freitag » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:33 pm

I wonder if they'll un-drug him for the trial.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:12 pm

Elvis wrote:


Just a note---AR15 is not a fully automatic rifle. However, one can pull the trigger pretty fast, and I've emptied those long clips in a (semiauto) AR15 in just a few seconds.



!!!!!!

Thanks for learning me. I've only ever played with full models, didn't realize they were modified. I'm also even more baffled at the utility of gas cartridges in the AR-15 now! Engineers are a strange breed.

Also -- great catch on Ayn Navy! Her story really complicates the timeline and the single shooter theory.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby Aldebaran » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:12 pm

Burnt Hill wrote:If this is a conspiracy by other than Holmes then to what ends?

This may be a "leap too far", but, adding a few apples to oranges...

Using [WikiLeaks] war logs with about 77,000 events including location, day and time of occurrence and other details from the war in Afghanistan between 2004 and 2009, the team of scientists – including scientists from the universities of Edinburgh and Columbia, USA – were able to predict armed opposition group activity way into the future of the battle.

The researchers’ model was able to create a strikingly accurate prediction of armed opposition group activity in 2010, based solely on the data from the previous years, including which provinces would experience more and less violence as well as anticipate by how much the level of violence would increase or decrease.

Professor Visakan Kadirkamanathan, a co-author, Head of the University of Sheffield’s Department of Automatic Control and Systems Engineering and a member of the Centre for Signal Processing and Complex Systems, said: “Conflict dynamics models of the type developed here can provide forecasts of the levels of conflict with a degree of uncertainty, and reveal geographically spatial patterns in the conflict.

http://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/nr/war- ... t-1.197435

The above paper had the advantage of hard numerical data, but with advances in semantic analysis and natural language processing I wonder if similar techniques couldn't be applied to more nebulous or abstract problems.

c.f.
Is 10% the tipping point?

You can imagine that such research or others along that line would benefit greatly from a memetic "shock therapy" to study the resulting conceptual ripples (a la Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars), particularly if there was something specific "about" the way the group mind responds to abjectly horrific culturally-confusing mass murder (as opposed to, say, celebrity deaths or other "wait and see" events). For example, how group consensus intitally splinters then reforms around conceptual nodes may be especially useful.

Description of the framework

The Cynefin framework has five domains.[7] The first four domains are:

Simple, in which the relationship between cause and effect is obvious to all, the approach is to Sense - Categorise - Respond and we can apply best practice.
Complicated, in which the relationship between cause and effect requires analysis or some other form of investigation and/or the application of expert knowledge, the approach is to Sense - Analyze - Respond and we can apply good practice.
Complex, in which the relationship between cause and effect can only be perceived in retrospect, but not in advance, the approach is to Probe - Sense - Respond and we can sense emergent practice.
Chaotic, in which there is no relationship between cause and effect at systems level, the approach is to Act - Sense - Respond and we can discover novel practice.


The fifth domain is Disorder, which is the state of not knowing what type of causality exists, in which state people will revert to their own comfort zone in making a decision. In full use, the Cynefin framework has sub-domains, and the boundary between simple and chaotic is seen as a catastrophic one: complacency leads to failure.


Journal of Homeland Security and
Emergency Management
Volume 2, Issue 1
2005
Article 2
Believe in the Model: Mishandle the Emergency

During the past quarter century there have been many developments in scientific models and
computer codes to help predict the ongoing consequences in the aftermath of many types of
emergency: e.g. storms and flooding, chemical and nuclear accident, epidemics such as SARS and
terrorist attack. Some of these models relate to the immediate events and can help in managing the
emergency; others predict longer term impacts and thus can help shape the strategy for the return
to normality. But there are many pitfalls in the way of using these models effectively. Firstly, non-
scientists and, sadly, many scientists believe in the models’ predictions too much. The inherent
uncertainties in the models are underestimated; sometimes almost unacknowledged. This means
that initial strategies may later need to be revised in ways that unsettle the public, losing their trust
in the emergency management process. Secondly, the output from these models form an extremely
valuable input to the decision making process; but only one such input. There is a need to draw on
much tacit knowledge which by definition cannot reside in a decision support system. Most
emergencies are events that have huge social and economic impacts alongside the health and
environmental consequences. While we can model the latter passably well, we are not so good at
modelling economic impacts and very poor at modelling social impacts. Our knowledge of them is
tacit and they lie in the complex space of Snowden’s Cynefin categorisation of decision contexts.
Thus we draw upon recent thinking in both decision support and knowledge management systems
to suggest that we need a more socio-technical approach to developing crisis response system;
and, in particular, we explore how model predictions should be drawn into emergency
management processes in more balanced ways than often has occurred in the past.



Preposterous, maybe. :shrug:

EDIT: So what do you get when you combine neural networks, semantic analysis, predictive modeling, and decision management? Precisely the specialities of HNC and FICO, two (former) employers of Robert Holmes.
Last edited by Aldebaran on Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby elfismiles » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:29 pm

Earlier today I briefly tuned into AJ's show and he was saying that one of his office employees has a relative who was supposedly in the specific theater in which the shooting occurred and that they are trying to get her on the show - later today or soon. I didn't stay tuned in so don't know if that occurred or not. I assume that once that interview happens there will be more articles and vids from the infowars-network on this subject.

He's released 2 video interviews with Fritz Springmeier on the subject of the Aurora shooting but I've not watched them and probably won't.

Meanwhile, as someone else commented, author Bruce Rux () was interviewed by Tim Binnall within days of Bruce's having been in the theater complex where the shooting occurred. Bruce Rux was there that night for the BATMAN premier but was in a different theater.

http://binnallofamerica.com/boaa072712.html
http://www.cyberears.com/cybrss/16548.mp3 (Bruce Rux starts at 53 min mark)

Also, UFO journalist/podcaster Alejandro Rojas mentions (at the beginning of his recent interview with Robbie Graham) that he has friends named Heidi Soudani (and her daughter Farrah) who were hurt in the shooting:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/ufothinkta ... fos-expert
http://lisaromanekufoinsider.blogspot.c ... funds.html

... small world.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby lupercal » Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:15 pm

Aldebaran wrote:
Burnt Hill wrote:If this is a conspiracy by other than Holmes then to what ends?

This may be a "leap too far", but, adding a few apples to oranges...


I don't follow Aldebran but I wouldn't rule out anything as preposterous. As to why it was done, that's the million dollar question in any case, isn't it? Several global and local motives have been suggested already including changing the 2012 campaign narrative, i.e. bailing out MittBane, and eliminating inconvenient persons in the local intel sector, i.e. the intel unit at Buckley AFB. Other possibilities include distraction from foreign policy misteps (Syria, Bandar) and improving the climate of opinion for the security state (gun sales have spiked as they usually do after high-profile mass shootings, with no sign of "gun control" on the horizon, also usual). And so on. Basically the security apparatus has multiple motives for pulling these types of stunts, whereas James Holmes has none, and if past is prologue, said apparatus also has an impressive rap sheet whereas Mr Holmes was clean as whistle. So I'm confident in assigning responsibility for this atrocity to the usual perps.
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