#OCCUPYWALLSTREET campaign - September 17

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: #OCCUPYWALLSTREET campaign - September 17

Postby Project Willow » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:18 am

Nice coverage of the arrests (on the Fox affiliate :shock:) and status later that evening (we were wandering around somewhere behind that fellow in the later shot).

http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-protestors-arrested-for-camping-in-westlake-park-20111005,0,6396015.story
User avatar
Project Willow
 
Posts: 4798
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: #OCCUPYWALLSTREET campaign - September 17

Postby Nordic » Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:14 am

I'll be damned. In Los Angeles, the city is supporting the protesters:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/05/o ... from-city/

Occupy Los Angeles’ protest gets official support from city

By Eric W. Dolan
Wednesday, October 5, 2011



Protesters who have gathered in front of City Hall in Los Angeles to show solidarity with the “Occupy Wall Street” protesters in lower Manhattan received 100 rain ponchos from Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa on Wednesday morning.

The “occupation” began on Saturday, when more than 750 people marched from Pershing Square to City Hall, chanting slogans such as, “Hey hey, ho ho! Wall Street greed has got to go” and “The people united will never be defeated.”

The mayor of the city is not the only official to support the demonstration. Seven of the 15 councilmembers on Wednesday voted to support “peaceful and vibrant exercise in First Amendment Rights carried out by `Occupy Los Angeles.”‘

The resolution calls for a vote on a proposal to require the city to to divest from financial institutions that have not cooperated with measures to prevent foreclosures.

“There was an Arab Spring,” said Councilman Bill Rosendahl. “You’re seeing an American Autumn. And it’s connecting all over America. And if Washington can appreciate that, they’ll withdraw the troops from these crazy wars. They will make the rich pay their fair share and reinvest in education, health care, infrastructure and the American people.”

Unlike the larger “Occupy Wall Street” protest in New York City, no arrests have been made.

“It’s been a very peaceful demonstration,” Los Angeles Police Department Sgt. Mitzi Fierro told the LA Times. “They’re out there exercising their First Amendment right, so we’re going to allow them to continue as long it doesn’t become an unlawful assembly.”

Lasting five days, “Occupy Los Angeles” is the third longest ongoing demonstration. “Occupy Chicago” started 13 days ago and “Occupy Wall Street” started 19 days ago.

"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

Re: #OCCUPYWALLSTREET campaign - September 17

Postby 2012 Countdown » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:08 am

Laughing boy Jon Stewart video story/ clip. Its pretty good.

Jon Stewart: How Are The Occupy Wall Street Protesters Not Like The Tea Party?
VIDEO
by Alex Alvarez | 11:57 pm, October 5th, 2011

On Wednesday night’s The Daily Show, host Jon Stewart turned to the Occupy Wall Street protests, explaining that the media’s coverage as gone from “blackout” to its only other setting, “circus,” as reporters from “from all the major networks… and CNN” have made their way down to the live-in demonstration.

He looked at some of the media’s coverage of the protests, most notably Ann Coulter‘s assessment that with “slight modification,” the protesters’ message could have very well come from German Nazis. How, he asked, could they be both a disorganized band of hippies, as much of the media would have as believe, and like a highly-organized, well-trained representation of totalitarian ideology?

Later, Stewart played a clip of Fox News personality Sean Hannity discussing a group that is expressing its frustration over being on the hook for “the trillions and trillions of dollars” being used to bailout major corporations…

…And that group was the Tea Party, back in 2009. And his thoughts on the protesters today? According a clip from October 3rd, they “hate corporations, they hate capitalism, and in the end, ultimately, they want statism over free markets. So they really don’t like freedom.” Stewart doesn’t quite understand the difference:

I don’t get it! Here’s a group of Americans, disenchanted, railing against big government bailouts, angry because they played by the rules, worked hard, now they’re in debt from student loans and they’re unemployed… I mean, look, if this thing turns into throwing trash cans into Starbucks windows, nobody’s going to be down with that. We all love Starbucks.
But these protesters, how are they not like the Tea Party? Alright, some of them, you know, smoke and have pants made out of pot. So call them the THC Party. Aren’t these folks real citizens with real problems? Aren’t they also speaking for America?
According to the media? “NOPE!” One reason? They’ve broken laws. But Stewart was quick to point out that the Tea Party movement’s namesake happens to be “the most celebrated act of theft and vandalism of private property in our nation’s history.”

Watch the segment, via Comedy Central:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jon-stewart- ... tea-party/

===

Also, from the march last night, the marchers did projections onto the buildings on Wall st.

Image
George Carlin ~ "Its called 'The American Dream', because you have to be asleep to believe it."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
User avatar
2012 Countdown
 
Posts: 2293
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:27 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: #OCCUPYWALLSTREET campaign - September 17

Postby elfismiles » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:49 am

This was posted 3 days ago ... any follow-up?

New York Govener Calls National Guard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxNax9_3Wz8
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8512
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: #OCCUPYWALLSTREET campaign - September 17

Postby wordspeak2 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:25 am

Don't know, is the National Guard there?

But I was gonna say- that is *wild* about the L.A. City Council passing a referendum supporting it. I'm borderline shocked at how much mainstream support this is picking up- big unions, liberal non-profits and such. My mom.
wordspeak2
 
Posts: 1209
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:20 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: #OCCUPYWALLSTREET campaign - September 17

Postby 2012 Countdown » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:31 am

At this time, I would like to say thank you to Jack for admitting he was wrong about this. Always supportive though! After reviewing this thread, I also see how quickly dismissive and elitist some are. I'm cynical too, but the immediate rush to judgement, the disdain and snideness, the "I know better, am more sophisticated, premature 'critiqing' that went on is laughable now. Instead on supporting and joining, you mocked and judged. I am very glad that changed.
You are all very smart people, sometimes too smart for your own good!

Now that this is entering the stratosphere, we have this to worry about...worth the time to read the entire piece, imo.

Occupy Wall Street & What Liberals Now Aim to Do with the Movement’s Energy
By: Kevin Gosztola Thursday October 6, 2011 9:16 am

Somewhere between 15,000 and 25,000 people were out in the streets of New York City on October 5 for a march on Wall Street. The march was part of a planned community group/labor action to show solidarity with Occupy Wall Street, the occupation of Liberty Park in lower Manhattan that has been going on for nearly three weeks now. In the past week, major unions and community groups have endorsed the occupiers. These endorsements have greatly transformed how the establishment media and those in power discuss the occupiers.

One might recall in the first week the constant criticism centered on how the “hippies” in the park were disorganized and poorly dressed. The media also labeled them as “anti-capitalist,” though there was very little evidence that they were going to call for an end to capitalism in America. The protesters were belittled for having participants affiliated with Anonymous, the hacktivist group known for engaging in cyber direct actions against companies or institutions that violate people’s rights. They were characterized as anarchists and this was when the media covered them. It was not until after the second weekend when a white-shirted officer named Anthony Bologna pepper-sprayed female protesters penned in on the sidewalk by the NYPD’s orange netting that the media started to show more interest.

The second week saw an additional layer of criticism added. Now, Occupy Wall Street had an incoherent message or, worse, didn’t have one at all. The occupation had no cohesion, nothing holding everyone together. Each person had a set of issues they wanted to advance and, on top of that, they didn’t have any goals. This was all promoted despite the fact that the occupation is the message. This was repeated by pundits and commentators, despite the fact that their target should be enough for anyone to understand what is being protested: they are protesting the crimes of Wall Street and the systemic greed and corruption of the financial business sector, which politicians whose re-election campaigns depend on these corporations have protected from regulation and accountability. They are protesting how the richest 1% in the country has been able to concentrate the country’s wealth in their hands and use the government to push policies, which funnel more of the other 99%’s wealth into the hands of the richest 1%.

Largely, these criticisms from media and those in power were enough to keep progressives timid. Liberal groups and organizations paid attention to Occupy Wall Street but few spoke out in support in the early days. When unions began to show their support, like the New York Local 100 Transportation Workers Union (TWU), progressives started to speak out in support. They showed more elitism arguing the unions were going to come in and save the Occupy Wall Street movement. They were going to establish a set of demands and they were going to also outline goals Occupy Wall Street needed to achieve. (All of this TWU Political Director Marvin Holland roundly rejected saying, “I don’t think it’s our job to tell them what their demands should be.”)

The utter-contempt that existed toward this bottom-up movement has now been swept under the rug. The Occupy Wall Street movement has energy and momentum, which is exactly what President Barack Obama needs to get re-elected. It has people and media attention, which is why the organizers behind the “Take Back the American Dream” conference made a calculation to adjust messaging and include talk about Occupy Wall Street. They did this because the conference was to be about producing a movement that could counter the Tea Party and now, as Van Jones explained to attendees, a movement that could be a counter-balance to the Tea Party had sprouted. They acted as if the people in the streets were for their vision and agenda and talked about how those people showed it was time to build a “Rebuild the American Dream” movement to rival the Tea Party from the left. They even went to the steps of Capitol Hill for a two hour rally to “send a message” to Congress.

Now, leaders who are working on the Obama 2012 re-election campaign or progressive groups that will be canvassing door-to-door to convince people to not abandon Obama are looking to tap in to Occupy Wall Street’s energy. The country is about to see, as Salon’s Joan Walsh suggests, what happens when a movement without leaders meets leaders without a movement. The segment MSNBC host Ed Schultz did on October 5 indicates liberals, whom the Democratic Party counts on to deliver votes, will be working to contain this movement and make it seem these are really frustrated Obama supporters.

Schultz opened the segment saying, “The Occupy Wall Street movement is about to reach critical mass and the Republicans can’t do anything to stop it,” an immediate sign that Schultz is focused on how the movement can help Democrats. “There is no doubt that the Republican Party is afraid of the 99 percent message and now they are attacking it,” he added.

After framing Occupy Wall Street as a group of the left that is against the right, even though the organizers’ message is clearly about those at the bottom against those at the top, he continued, “This is the official start of the 2012 campaign. If this movement is heard by some candidate, this just may be the movement that starts a major change in this country.” You mean if someone like Barack Obama comes along and wants a second chance to show that he isn’t bought off by corporate and special interests, especially big banks on Wall Street? Because, while there is a growing primary challenger movement against Obama, there is a scant amount of support for that among progressives. And, if he is talking about congressional candidates, they face the same system Obama has been unwilling to challenge and no matter how good they are will be managed by the White House so they cannot get in the way of business as usual.

The Obama administration and whoever is working on his re-election campaign has the same kind of scorn that New York Mayor Bloomberg has toward the occupiers. And, it all goes back to the attacks on the “professional left” by people affiliated with the Obama administration. It all goes back to Vice President Joe Biden coming out and trying to whip progressives into volunteering for Democrats in 2010 to bridge the enthusiasm gap. And, it is related to President Obama telling the Congressional Black Caucus to “stop whining.”

The Obama administration sees itself as the adults. People who challenge the administration, who always oppose the administration on its every move aren’t acting grown-up. The occupiers are children. They can go out and protest but at some point they have to step aside and let the adults do the hard work necessary to eke out some sort of agreement or compromise.

This is the culture Obama has promoted. It is why vision and policy ideas are secondary to how best to manage the country. It is how undermining justice and the rule of law has been justified. And, through the promotion of civility and the necessity of acting grown-up, corporate and special interests have come out the winner. Income inequality has worsened. Liberals or progressives have been made to

This promoted culture decreases the likelihood that bold steps are taken to address crises (i.e. global warming, wars, debt, etc). It helps preserve the image and careers of political leaders, the profits of businesses and corporations, and ultimately, has a negative impact on the American population. It is this culture that gives people the cover to not address gross criminal, economic and social injustices in America that has moved Americans to participate in or support Occupy Wall Street.

What should the Occupy Wall Street organizers do? They should continue on the path they were on prior to all the labor and Democratic Party support. They should put the movement first and not bow to any Democratic Party or liberal organization operatives who seek to channel the movement into electoral politics or compel the movement to lower its sights. It should work to maintain a level of discipline and make sure it establishes what it is not. It should continue to aim for the impossible and remember that they have earned their power because they have occupied the park and stood their ground in the face of a media blackout, police brutality and contemptuous criticisms.

The occupiers did not come together to be the Tea Party of the left. They came together to take on corporate power and address problems that impact Americans who are conservative and liberal, left wing and right wing. And, to continue to grow as a movement that challenges the influence of corporations, special interests and the top 1% in government, they need to make clear this is not about building a better Democratic Party. This is about the war on poor, working class and middle class Americans, the constant attacks on unions and how Americans are begin to have influence over their government so the assaults on poor and working Americans come to an end.

http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/
George Carlin ~ "Its called 'The American Dream', because you have to be asleep to believe it."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
User avatar
2012 Countdown
 
Posts: 2293
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:27 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: #OCCUPYWALLSTREET campaign - September 17

Postby 2012 Countdown » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:07 am

...and for the dumbass righties that insist on believing OWS is secretly protesting Wall St. in order to deflect attention on the Fed (how fucking STUPID is that?!)...I'm talking to YOU ALEX JONES...you small minded, myopic, failure (to see the opportunity at hand and JOIN us)...

Image

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44791261/ns ... ?gt1=43001
George Carlin ~ "Its called 'The American Dream', because you have to be asleep to believe it."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
User avatar
2012 Countdown
 
Posts: 2293
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:27 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: #OCCUPYWALLSTREET campaign - September 17

Postby Plutonia » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:27 am

I think that National Guard clip is a lie. I've seen no other reports of the guard anywhere.

Also:
WeOccupyAmerica We Occupy America
#invadewallstreet is a #memejacker move - try[ing] to infect #OWS /w violence.
2 minutes ago
[the British] government always kept a kind of standing army of news writers who without any regard to truth, or to what should be like truth, invented & put into the papers whatever might serve the minister

T Jefferson,
User avatar
Plutonia
 
Posts: 1267
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:07 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: #OCCUPYWALLSTREET campaign - September 17

Postby Plutonia » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:01 pm

48h global virtual assembly during October 8th and 9th

This is a call for everybody to join a 48h virtual assembly on the Net
We are creating a global movement to change the world, so people takes back the capacity for decission
October 15th is here, but first we would like to meet, to know what are you preparing for that day.
What are your expectations, what is the situation in your country, well its an excuse to meet and begin our new way
together to fight for a better world where all of us has its place and where human dignity is at its basis.

How can you join this 48h assembly?

We have opened several channels, you can use any of them, all of them, as you wish, as you like :-)

WebChat at freenode
Web chat is a written chat, its great for asymetric communication, you can have it open and follow it from time to time

http://webchat.freenode.net/?randomnick ... r&prompt=1

To change the default name to yourname_yourcity please put the following in the chat line
/nick yourname_yourcity

Example: /nick Groucho_Toledo

To open a new room put the following in the chat line

/join #takethesquare-NameOfTheRoom

For example if you want to set up a channel to speak in japanese
Example: /join #takethesquare-jp

Writing down the globalrevolution
To put in common all our ideas an actions you can write them down in
http://titanpad.com/15october

Mumble as voice conference chat

Mumble enables you to hear people and chat with them(with laptop and android), this time you have to install a software and configure the sound and you can join the conversation whenever you like.

For setting up mumble please follow the instructions in
http://takethesquare.net/2011/10/04/mum ... lkthrough/

Data needed to connect:

Label: Takethesquare (for example, it must be a name that gives you a clue to which server are you connecting to)
Server: tomalaplaza.net
Port: 64738
Username: name_country (we recommend that you put your name followed by country)
Once you have connected to the server please join channel #15oct, since that is the international channel

Video conference
Since we even like to see our faces, we invite you to also join the videoconference room set up at

http://conference.amesi-dimokratia.org/ ... ntagma.jsp


http://takethesquare.net/2011/10/06/48h ... h-and-9th/
[the British] government always kept a kind of standing army of news writers who without any regard to truth, or to what should be like truth, invented & put into the papers whatever might serve the minister

T Jefferson,
User avatar
Plutonia
 
Posts: 1267
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:07 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: #OCCUPYWALLSTREET campaign - September 17

Postby wordspeak2 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:28 pm

That was a really excellent article; thanks, 2012 Countdown. And for folks interested in a broad survey of the media scene around OWS, here's a favorable piece from the Guardian that has a similar tone as the Kevin Gosztola one 2012 posted:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... sfeed=true

Now, I know there's no official list of demands, but there was a forum post proposal of 13 demands, and it was picked up and went viral in right-wing media as the demands of OWS. It's not- there are no official demands- but I actually kind of like this guy's proposals. I'd add some thing, like "End the War on Drugs" and re-invest the money, but... here it is:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed- ... st-moveme/
wordspeak2
 
Posts: 1209
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:20 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: #OCCUPYWALLSTREET campaign - September 17

Postby elfismiles » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:52 pm

Lofi DriveBy of #OccupyAustin at 11:30am today

http://yfrog.us/c826xz

that was heading south

this one is heading north and is equal parts phone-cam malfunction :rofl2

http://yfrog.com/5xe9ez
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8512
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: #OCCUPYWALLSTREET campaign - September 17

Postby 2012 Countdown » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:05 pm

btw...lmao, Alex, I always supported you on this board. When the many arrows started flying, I stepped into their way. I took many hits for you. I am a subscriber and listen to your shows. What a sad pathetic man. You have failed to rise to the occasion and go with DIVISION. And once more, for you're pig headed education...

YOU ARE LATE!!!!! Get going, LAZY FUCK!!!! No one is trying to do anything you paranoid, self centered small man. Quit defending Hank Williams. You are wrong in your 'analysis' on that too. He was NOT condemning Bohner and Obummer. Are you dense? You are floundering and grasping on as of late. Go attempt to steal their beginning of the occupation in Dallas. Bring your bullhorn and shout! I laugh at you and your telling of LIES on the OWS movement.

===

Image
Scores march on Dallas Fed to protest corporate greed
By BRENDAN CASE
Published: Oct 6, 2011 10:20 AM


Scores of protesters arrived at Pike Park Thursday morning as part of an “Occupy Dallas” march against Wall Street bailouts and what they described as corporate greed.

In an echo of the Occupy Wall Street protests that began last month, Dallas protesters began marching to the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas at about 10 a.m.

“They gave the banks this money so they could have these record bonuses,” said Jonathan Batten, 23, a sales specialist at a home improvement store in Fort Worth.

“If they bailed out the people, people would spend money back into the economy,” said Batten, who said he was an Army veteran and an animal rights activist.

Martha O'Brien, 51, said she blamed corporate greed for exacerbating economic hard times. O'Brien, the chief executive of a 25-employee wire harness manufacturer in Arlington, said she had to drop health insurance covergage for her employees because of rising costs and weak sales.

“When CEOs are making $15 million, $20 million a year — they could be spending it on keeping jobs here in the U.S.,” she said.

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/head ... -greed.ece
Last edited by 2012 Countdown on Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
George Carlin ~ "Its called 'The American Dream', because you have to be asleep to believe it."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
User avatar
2012 Countdown
 
Posts: 2293
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:27 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: #OCCUPYWALLSTREET campaign - September 17

Postby Luther Blissett » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:12 pm

Just got back from Philly City Hall / Dilworth Plaza (which we are occupying) in a late 90's Argentinian-style lunch break protest. There are about 1000-1500 people holding a general assembly to begin a decision on whether or not to seek permits. Final consensus is hoped to be reached tonight in another GA at 7.

I'll post pictures in a bit. It's a great, energetic crowd, and very diverse. Minimal police presence, it's mostly working class detective guys standing around chatting.

The New York National Guard thing is from Hurricane Irene.
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
User avatar
Luther Blissett
 
Posts: 4994
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: #OCCUPYWALLSTREET campaign - September 17

Postby 2012 Countdown » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:18 pm

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
George Carlin ~ "Its called 'The American Dream', because you have to be asleep to believe it."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
User avatar
2012 Countdown
 
Posts: 2293
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:27 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: #OCCUPYWALLSTREET campaign - September 17

Postby ninakat » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:20 pm

Here's an interview with Robert David Steele on RT where he talks about driving up to NY today for a meeting with the protesters to talk with them about adopting a 9-point electoral reform program that he, Ralph Nadar, and others have drawn together. He goes on with predictions and what-ifs, which seem plausible, but I don't know. And, I'm not terribly familiar with Robert David Steele, although he's a former intelligence officer (which always gives me pause), and he's quite outspoken regarding the lies of 9/11. Click here for one of his lengthy reviews on amazon.com (this particular one is for Tarpley's Synthetic Terror).

‘USA might face a potentially violent revolution’
Published: 04 October, 2011
RT

(video at link)

Fury over corporate power in the US is spreading from New York across the country. Thousands have joined the 'Occupy Wall Street' movement, angered by the economic slump that may lead to a revolution in the country.

­Robert David Steele, political analyst and former intelligence officer, told RT the US right now is much more desperate than people realize.

“We have 22 per cent unemployment and on our way to 30 per cent. We are 16 per cent below the poverty line and on our way to 30 per cent. There is no question in my mind that this is going to be a very dark winter in the United States,” he stated. “Unless the government restores its own integrity and starts paying attention to the public interest rather than to the special interests, I believe that we will have a form of revolution, initially non-violent, but with the potential to become violent,” he added.

Despite the fact that “Occupy Wall Street” protesters have raised everything from lack of jobs to global warming, there is a common cause uniting the activists, Steele believes.

“These are not stupid people. They are very smart and they understand that at root this is about corruption in government and corruption on Wall Street,” he explained. “And until you have electoral reform, you cannot restore the integrity of US government. So there is a common cause, but it is voiced in many different ways,” he maintained.

The protest started out peacefully, but now it is the third week and more than 700 people have been arrested on Brooklyn Bridge. And according to Steele, the NYC police have on the one hand been very well-managed and on the other hand have gotten out of control at lower levels.

“My personal hope is that the general non-violent strike will be used to force the issue of electoral reform,” he concluded.
User avatar
ninakat
 
Posts: 2904
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:38 pm
Location: "Nothing he's got he really needs."
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests