Jersey investigation into child abuse

[blanc]

the 'expert' I heard wasn't JA, Ahabs, not this time. I didn't catch the name, but recognise our born again christian's delivery when I hear it. I'm intrigued by the 60million figure, dickd, it crops up so often. BTW, does anyone know what happened when JA, (having declared himself bankrupt to avoid paying the guardian after he fell on his sword of truth assisted by dodi's dad), was found to have a very healthy swiss bank a/c? I read the first part of this in the guardian, then, like operation ore subsequently, it just seemed to go quiet. (Its possible I missed it as I live outside the uk)
I recommend anyone interested in these dealings to read gerald james book 'in the public interest' (out of print I think, but second hand copies around) for info on the arms dealing which JA was helping along just before al yam. at that period (mid 80s ish) was the first time I heard that magic figure spoken - I suppose 60 million pounds was about 100 million dollars then, a nice round figure. I believe the papers for astra holdings were held by the uk govt (DTI?), and about to be destroyed, Gerald James being told he must foot the bill for their storage if he wanted them to stay in existence.
James' second man at astra was the last person to see supergun Bull alive apart from whoever killed him wasn't he?

[hava1]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/974874.html

Dont want to annoy Blanc here, but the State of Israel might be cashing in on some dead bodies again. Just the "Qatar" connection. could be wrong.

Nazi-RA, arms deals (the UK..again ?) and US-Israeli coupons.

---
Since recently I found out that the "human rights community" does same, i have nothing to add. Its a tough world out there for kids these days, the "comeback of sanctioned slavery".

[Stephen Morgan]

Radio 4's The Investigation, mostly about Bailhache.

[AhabsOtherLeg]

Double Post - deleted

[AhabsOtherLeg]

BTW, does anyone know what happened when JA, (having declared himself bankrupt to avoid paying the guardian after he fell on his sword of truth assisted by dodi's dad), was found to have a very healthy swiss bank a/c? I read the first part of this in the guardian, then, like operation ore subsequently, it just seemed to go quiet. (Its possible I missed it as I live outside the uk)

I'm not entirely sure what happened with that one, blanc, but it's perhaps not coincidental that Tony Blair only really got antsy about the SFO investigators when they started requesting the details of secret bank accounts in Switzerland and Leichenstein to be opened to them. Aitken's own side of the story (for what it's worth) can be read as a Google Books preview, thus happily denying him any money for his ridiculous autobiography. You might have read it already, but here is the relevant part, plus an account of his decision to study theology at Oxford after his release, which really warmed my heart. No, seriously. It's hilarious. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Vll1 ... PA185&lpg=
PA185&dq=jonathon+aitken's+swiss+bank+accounts&source=web&ots=
SQ-Dvyq9Yi&sig=J8a3x0dimUytAZB2dfh4ZVjIVtc&hl=en

(the link has to be copied and pasted to the address bar in it's entirety 'cos of it's sheer immense bigness).

I'm going to have to read that whole book now... Not looking forward to it.

A rather weird quote from him in a guardian piece on the release of this latest book too:

His most useful time was spent writing letters for illiterate prisoners and he was astonished by how many of them had been in care and abused. 'Some gruesome experiences, if they are to be believed,' he says. 'One always has to add that caveat in a prison.'

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/intervie ... 06,00.html

Don't tell me that on top of the arms deals and shilling for the Church he's turning into a False Memory Syndrome Foundationer too?

Might be good timing on his part to sew that seed of doubt. I'm going to have to scour his crappy books for trips to Jersey.

I recommend anyone interested in these dealings to read gerald james book 'in the public interest' (out of print I think, but second hand copies around)...

I'm going to have to get a hold of that book too, but at least it's one I can expect to enjoy. I remember there was a lot of stuff in Private Eye back in the day about James' fight to keep the documents, or at least keep them in existence, but I wasn't following it as closely as I should've at the time.

James' second man at astra was the last person to see supergun Bull alive apart from whoever killed him wasn't he?

Aitken and the other arms dealers involved in these things have left quite a trail of corpses behind them, even discounting the damage their weapons do after purchase.

I don't know how reliable this website is, other than that the people they are talking about definitely died in the way described, but it is worth looking at. It is at least legally established that Jonathon Moyle was "unlawfully killed," and I believe the method (discreditting the victim by the manner of their own death) is an Aitken/Khashoggi gang specialty. http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/autoero ... _in_uk.htm

I'm kind of worried about taking things too far from Jersey itself. I should probably shut up about Al Yam and Aitken and the rest of them, till I can find something more concrete (though I believe it is there to be found). I am going to try and track down the book you mentioned, and listen to the Radio 4 docu Stephen Morgan posted. Radio 4 is probably the last bastion of real news in the UK, even though some folk will say it can't be because it's BBC.

Anyway, like I said, I'm going to shut up.

Oh, except that items bearing bloodstains were found in the fourth cellar under Haut de la Garenne earlier today:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/1 ... tworkfront
[/quote]

[AhabsOtherLeg]

Radio 4's The Investigation, mostly about Bailhache.

This is unbelievable! I'd heard about Roger Holland on the Jersey Forums, but to hear the people who appointed him trying to defend their decision... when they knew he was a convicted paedophile. And the guy talking about 1992 as if it was Before Christ and it would take an expert historian to go back that far.... "Attitudes were different then...."

It's not The Crusades we're talking about, man!

It doesn't sound like the attitudes have changed that much, either, listening to the likes of Frank Walker.

This is definitely required listening.

[Stephen Morgan]

Yeah. I liked the one who said raping mentally deficient 14 year olds was "not a serious offence". Bailhache originally tried to say it was "the mid-80s", the reporter caught him on that and said it was 1992. Trying to make it seem more remote than it is, although it's not like even in the mid-80s most people approved of raping little kids.

[AhabsOtherLeg]

Updates on the case, not so much for people following it here, who will no doubt already be aware of these developments, but for posterity's sake.
When the whole story returns in a couple of years, or decades, these things might be worth remembering.

The fragments of a child's skull were loudly proclaimed in the media recently to be bits of either wood or coconut.

Sunday May 18 2008

In a letter to Lenny Harper, the island's deputy police chief, the experts stated: 'We concluded that the sample was not in fact bone but almost certainly a piece of wood. Its curvature may have had something to do with it being misidentified. It appears to be more likely a seed casing or a small piece of coconut. Our conclusion is that this sample is not bone and not human.'

Last night Jersey police issued a statement saying that officers were first told in early April of the lab findings. 'Police were told that in the opinion of the laboratory staff the item was not bone but wood or a seed,' said the statement.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/may/18/ukcrime6

Then it changed back again.

According to the police, who I hope know a bit more than the experts liberally quoted in the media, the original fragment of bone is still bone.
And even if the original skull fragments HAD been proven to be wood or coconut (which never actually happened) those fragments are no longer the main issue anyway. Except in certain tabloids.

27 May 2008

Detectives in Jersey have unearthed more bone fragments while investigating child abuse at the island's former children's home.

During a sieving operation by experts several pieces of bone and another child's tooth were discovered.

The latest development brings the number of milk teeth found in the cellar to eight.

Taking place in one of the underground chambers at Haut de la Garenne over the weekend, the search was part of the police's ongoing investigation into allegations of prolonged malpractice and child abuse.

Police said this find along with an earlier find of teeth and charred human bone parts pointed towards homicide, with the remains possibly cremated in a nearby fireplace.

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/u ... +fragments

Lenny Harper's still getting a hard time from both sides:- the authorities and the folk like myself who believe there will be a cover up. Never mind, lenny, you're retiring soon.

But to be honest he hasn't put a foot wrong so far, at least in my view.

Mr Harper said last week: "A lot of bones appear to have some degree of burning to them, a number were found in and around where we believe was a fireplace in the cellar area."

Also - arrests:

Third Held Over Jersey Care Home 'Abuse'

Updated:10:57, Friday May 30, 2008
A man arrested in connection with allegations of sexual abuse at a former care home in Jersey is believed to have been a previous resident, Sky News has discovered.

The 45-year-old suspect was detained in the UK on Thursday over offences alleged to have taken place at Haut de la Garenne in the 1970s and 1980s.

He is the third man to be arrested as part of a continuing historic abuse inquiry on the island.

A Jersey Police spokeswoman said: "This is in connection with alleged serious sexual crimes at Haut de la Garenne in the 1970s and early 1980s.

"The arrest of the man, 45, who is Jersey-born, took place in the UK yesterday.

"The man was brought back to Jersey last night and is now in custody at police headquarters. He will be questioned during today.
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"The States of Jersey Police will not release the name of the man unless he is charged."

Sky News crime correspondent Martin Brunt said the man is thought to have been a former resident of the home.

He is the second man to be arrested in connection with the alleged child abuse.

Gordon Claude Wateridge, 76, originally from Croydon, south London, is charged with three offences of indecent assault on girls under 16 between 1969 and 1979.

A third man has been arrested as part of the wider abuse inquiry.

Claude Donnelly, 68, of St Brelade, is charged with raping and sexually assaulting a 12-year-old girl on Jersey between 1971 and 1974.

Neither man has entered a plea.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,, ... 15,00.html

The quote-marks around 'abuse' are in the original headline. Check it out. I suppose they have to put the 'alleged' quotes in place once someone is facing trial, but the fact that abuse happened at Haut de la Garenne is already beyond question (in the view of the courts, too).

So what's the inverted commas all about? It's a bit like saying Eichmann got tried for 'war crimes.'

Skynews. Murdoch's covering both his faces. As usual. He's one of the few men on earth who can wear two masks at once without looking stupid. Actually, I have to admit it suits him.

I know a lot of this is old, or old-ish, news, but it's worth keeping bits. Plus, hoping to jolt the thread back to life.

[blanc]

I'm astonished that the police investigation has managed to fend off interference to the extent it has. The track record of investigations into organised child abuse is abysmal.

[AhabsOtherLeg]

I fear it will continue to be.

I have to admit that all the danger signs of a total whitewash, and even further injustice, are in place: - they have started prosecuting former residents, for a start.

The main culprit identified above could've been no more than 19 at the time of his crimes, and was an imate himself. That's no excuse, if he was an abuser, but I doubt he was the worst offender.

Former staff have named their bosses, which might be where the prosecution of the older guy came from - though I get the impression from the charge as it was written that he must've commited his crimes outside the home itself.

The tabloids, after their initial frenzy of righteousness, have had an equally good time pointing out the criminal and psychiatric records of most of the people who are alleging abuse. That's textbook stuff. But I've rarely seen the press start attacking the police, and the investigation itself. Normally they'd just run with it - it sells papers.

You're probably right that justice will never be done (if that's what you were saying). And I would normally agree - there's not much of a precedent for justice, or even full disclosure. But maybe this time? Who knows?

In another decade or so, most likely, but even that would be an improvement.

[RocketMan]

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/1307_jersey.shtml

It's feared island authorities may try to hush up the dossier on Haut de la Garenne orphanage but a source told us: "Officers on this case are in NO DOUBT what went on."

Innocent children WERE raped, murdered and their bodies then BURNT in a FURNACE at the Jersey House of Horrors, says a top-secret police report into the scandal.

A News of the World investigation reveals cops have shocking new evidence of how the killings were COVERED UP at the Haut de la Garenne care home.

[...]

"The problem has been identifying the children that went missing over the years. No records were kept of who came and left that place.

"Kids were shipped to the home from all over the UK and were never heard of again.

"All the inquiry team have to go on is this grim collection of teeth and bone fragments and no names to match up to the remains.

"Because this investigation has seen so many twists and turns people seem to find it hard to accept that children WERE slaughtered and their deaths WERE covered up."

[Stephen Morgan]

BBC:

More children in care go missing

Schools are getting a new duty to take more care of looked after children
The number of children who run away while in care in England has been rising, figures show.

In 2005, 860 looked after children went missing, 890 in 2006 and 950 last year. The rise came as the number of children in care fell to 83,400 last year.

The statistics follow new guidance from the Department for Children, Schools and Families aimed at improving the lot of children in local authority care.

It says efforts need to be focused on the most vulnerable and disadvantaged.

The figures show that the number who went missing from care homes only, rather than foster care or placements with relatives, has remained at about 290 a year.

[pepsified thinker]

update on this sory--check out comments at end of story.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/uk_news/7534350.stm

Jersey murder inquiry 'unlikely'
Remains of at least five children have been found at a former children's home in Jersey, but a murder inquiry may never take place, police have said.

They said such an inquiry was unlikely because an exact date could not be put on the remains, believed to have come from children aged four to 11.

So far police have found 65 milk teeth and more than 100 bone fragments at the former Haut de la Garenne home.

About 100 people have alleged abuse dating from the early 1960s to 1986.

Burned remains

Police experts have said the condition of the teeth meant they could only have come out after death.

Two pieces of the bone fragments have been identified so far, one from a child's leg and another from inside a child's ear.

FROM THE TODAY PROGRAMME
Please turn on JavaScript. Media requires JavaScript to play.
Police have evidence the remains were burned, and that attempts were made to conceal them in the late 1960s or early 1970s.

Deputy Chief Officer Lenny Harper, who is leading the investigation, told the BBC: "We were pinning our hopes on the process of carbon dating.

"The latest information we're getting is that for the period we're looking at, it's not going to be possible to give us an exact time of death."

Valuable evidence

He added: "The indications are that if the results come back the same way as they have now it is obvious there won't be a homicide inquiry.

"We cannot get away from the fact that we have found the remains of at least five children there.

"But at the end of the day there just might not be the evidence to mount a homicide inquiry in an attempt to bring anybody to justice."

However, Mr Harper said a number of valuable pieces of evidence had been found which "substantially corroborate" accounts of abuse at the home.

Jersey Police started an exploratory search of the home and made their first significant discovery on 23 February, finding what they believed to be a skull fragment.

It came two years after the start of a covert investigation into abuse following allegations by former residents.

'Systematic abuse'

Former Jersey health minister Stuart Syvret said it was important to remember the abuse that occurred at the home, even if there was no murder inquiry.

He said: "I know from speaking to survivors of the appalling abuse that occurred. The abuse aspect was quite appalling enough without children dying."

Mr Syvret was the Minister for Health and Social Services in Jersey until September 2007 when he was removed from his post.

Liberal Democrat MP John Hemming told BBC Radio Four's Today programme he would be speaking to a government minister later on Thursday about the issue of the rule of law in Jersey.

In February Mr Hemming signed an early day motion in Parliament that said there was a lack of confidence in the ability of the island's authorities to deal with the abuse allegations.

Among the reasons given were the lack of separation of powers on the island and "the prevailing desire on the part of the Jersey elites to sweep scandal and abuse under the carpet to preserve their reputation".

"What is clear is that there are five cases where there is sufficient evidence to prosecute but the prosecution has been shut down in some form or other," Mr Hemming told Today.

He said there was corroborating evidence from witnesses that should be enough to mount a case, although it may not be possible to prosecute for murder.

"There are efforts to cover this up, I don't think there's any doubt about that," he said.

(emphasis added)

My question: how/why is this situation different from others, as far as allowing such cover-up by the local elite to be part of the story?

[nikitacat]

My first post here. I am a 'long-time reader, first-time caller'

I have had extremely visceral reactions to the child-abuse/ritualistic child abuse stories on this board...My reactions have ranged from incredulousness, to horror, to outright denial. There have been months when I stop reading this board. I always come back.

The question I want to ask, on this thread, is why? There have been lots of posts about the proof; I don't doubt this really happened.

But why did it happen? Why is it happening at all economic levels, globally, apparently in all of recorded history? The only theme I have gleaned from all the stories is secrecy. Beyond that, I don't know...is there an underlying theme here?

What is going on here??

[pepsified thinker]

Nina, I don't know if you mean to ask for a 'theory', or if you're rhetorically wringing your hands, but in case of the former, read on.

This may miss the 'horror' of what's going on--or be simplistic?--but here's what I see in the various RA stories, especially those involving high-level perps, etc.

(and if I am simplifying [too much], well, I can see how Satanic stuff fits with what I'll offer as the, or 'an' underlying reason for RA, but I think weaving too much occultism or mystic/psychic stuff into the explanation becomes a distraction)

--so here's my theory

[warning: after I'd laid it out here--not having formally thought it out before--what I ended up saying seemed pretty harsh at points. It might be triggering.]

RA works as a sort of initiation/test, renewed at intervals, to demonstrate one's membership in a particular group. The times that it's connected with intel/elites/government officials, it could of course be also a basis for blackmail--but it serves to bind people together: once you've shared in doing such evil, you have dirt on each other of a soul-deep variety, you've shown each other a certain capability--it's a kind of evil intimacy. It must be affirming, too: if you're drawn to such acts, and society holds them to the utmost form of depravity, to find others who will do such acts. I imagine people who've shown each other their willingness to commit such acts would have a sense of each other's true selves, in a certain way. You'd know if someone was really, gladly participating, right? (sorry to go into that, but it's part of why I think this kind of atrocity works the way I'm outlining). So if you wanted to start a 'evil buddies' club--and wanted to test potential members--this would do it.

Also though, those doing this sort of thing may be so far gone, so utterly deluded, that they don't see it as evil--they just know it puts them in an outside, rejected, scorned, hated, despised category.

So secretly sharing it with others must have a component of finally, at long last, finding someone who understands them fully.

(a thought: maybe there's a divide between those who abuse children in private, and those who do so in groups--??)

Let me also add this, though. I'm sure those who are doing this are, in their dark, rotten-soul-hearts enjoying it; it's not just a secret handshake, its a sexual turn on for them, apart from being an 'initiation' or test. I don't mean to ignore or deny that aspect in first talking about it as an initiation.

I'm guessing the sexual enjoyment aspect of it draws on the far end of the 'sex-spectrum' that starts with mutuality and love and ends in power-dominance.

So. Put all that together and you've got a ready-made test that an undercover cop, or a casual, dilettante-type probably won't be able to pass. And an affirming bond-building, 'recreational outlet'.

I'm feel I'm babbling and I don't think I can healthily focus on this in this way any more, so I'll stop. (I feel a need to mentally gargle with bleach now.)

But: if this isn't too awful and/or is useful, I'll be glad to hear other's take on this. Sorry if my treatment of the issue was crude of insensitive.