Final WTC7 Report Released

[Eldritch]

Let's say the buildings did not fall from "Controlled Demolition", there would be absolutely no way on this planet to ever...ever convince many truthers otherwise...

I think you're right.

As someone who considers "controlled demolition" a likely scenario, I'm willing to turn my attention from it (for the moment) towards matters that are provable—and indictable—realizing that folks like me seem to have "been played."

Maybe we've "been played" by the truth!—truths that are so unfathomable to most people that they become "artful deceptions," masterfully employed to discredit any questions about the whole affair.

[thegovernmentflu]

The truthers have been getting played and led to the wrong areas
since the beginning.

The first thing that happened was the elites pushed the "Jews did it trap", in fact the first artificial theories pumped out were Jewish in nature.

Oh yeah, there's no doubt that 911 Truthers got played; it just seems likely that the level at which they got manipulated is probably deeper than we can even imagine.

I have an extremely bad feeling about this new film "Fabled Enemies" by Jason Bermas, Alex Jones' young franchise-ee. Something tells me that they're going to run with obviously planted stories like the "dancing Israelis on a rooftop" bullshit. They even used the "pulled" Fox News clip about Israeli involvement in 911 in their trailer. I've always been suspicious of that clip; that and the widely-reported "dancing Israelis" incident always seemed like blatant attempts by the corporate media to foster anti-Jewish 911 conspiracy theories.

I have a gut feeling that we're going to see some fucking monumental blows to the circumstantial case for 911 skepticism with this new film.

[8bitagent]

The truthers have been getting played and led to the wrong areas
since the beginning.

The first thing that happened was the elites pushed the "Jews did it trap", in fact the first artificial theories pumped out were Jewish in nature.

Oh yeah, there's no doubt that 911 Truthers got played; it just seems likely that the level at which they got manipulated is probably deeper than we can even imagine.

I have an extremely bad feeling about this new film "Fabled Enemies" by Jason Bermas, Alex Jones' young franchise-ee. Something tells me that they're going to run with obviously planted stories like the "dancing Israelis on a rooftop" bullshit. They even used the "pulled" Fox News clip about Israeli involvement in 911 in their trailer. I've always been suspicious of that clip; that and the widely-reported "dancing Israelis" incident always seemed like blatant attempts by the corporate media to foster anti-Jewish 911 conspiracy theories.

I have a gut feeling that we're going to see some fucking monumental blows to the circumstantial case for 911 skepticism with this new film.

If I was orchestrating 9/11, I would damn sure want to manipulate events so that there at least appeared to be some sort of genuine(on the surface) finger pointing toward's Israel

Why, the first theories within days of 9/11 were "the Jews did it".

[MacCruiskeen]

So, to sum up the conventional wisdom on The Great Uninvestigated Crime, as of August 2008:

1) NIST's unconscionably belated, helplessly poor and desperately unconvincing explanation of WTC7's collapse is in fact a cunning plot to entrap what the endlessly-wise and well-informed 8bitagent calls "truthers". Being sophisticated (i.e., not being "truthers"), we'd all we well-advised just to ignore that explanation completely. Ours not to reason.

2) As a movement of political activists, "Truthers" [sic] (i.e. American citizens who give a damn about their government's conduct, and about the quality of the explanation given for a universal casus belli) would have done better to foist copies of the works of Peter Dale Scott (perhaps including his poetry) on anyone they met, rather than focusing on the actual crime itself.

3) The very concept of "the truth" is in itself naive, deeply uncool, and basically kinda hokey, except in the form conveyed to the world by Peter Dale Scott and other high priests, via 8bitagent -- i.e., as profound, baffling and (de facto) impenetrable complexity, and thus guaranteed never have to have any timely practical political or criminological effect. The correct response to such truths (But! Can we know that these "truths" are "true"? How, pray? Questions, questions...) is to write books about them, perhaps in prose form, perhaps as slim volumes of verse.

4) No one with any intellectual self-respect will allow himself to be seen making loud noises on the street. That kind of stuff is for the likes of Alex Jones.

It's no wonder American political culture currently enjoys such rude health.

[Jeff]

So, to sum up the conventional wisdom...

Anti-intellectualism in the defense of Truth is no virtue.

[MacCruiskeen]

So, to sum up the conventional wisdom...

Anti-intellectualism in the defense of Truth is no virtue.

1. Verbal economy is no proof of profundity.

2. Sarcastically capitalising the word "Truth" does not discredit the concept of truth, although in this case it was intended to do so, thereby exemplifying perfectly the intellectual vice I was objecting to in my previous post.

3. Nowhere in my post was I anti-intellectual. On the contrary.

[Jeff]

Nowhere in my post was I anti-intellectual. On the contrary.

the endlessly-wise and well-informed

"Truthers" would have done better to foist copies of the works of Peter Dale Scott (perhaps including his poetry)

The very concept of "the truth" is in itself naive, deeply uncool, and basically kinda hokey, except in the form conveyed to the world by Peter Dale Scott and other high priests

The correct response to such truths is to write books about them, perhaps in prose form, perhaps as slim volumes of verse.

No one with any intellectual self-respect will allow himself to be seen making loud noises on the street. That kind of stuff is for the likes of Alex Jones.



Sarcasm doesn't count?

[erosoplier]

Mac's "anti-itellectualism" seems to be quite secondary to the contempt and scorn he was expressing for the intellectually flawed position taken by the likes of 8bit.

Mac, you flatter 8bit by associating him with Peter Dale Scott.

Anti-intellectualism in the defense of Truth is no virtue.

But dogged determination to persue the truth, regardless of the acts of those who would send you off down the garden path, is a virtue.

[8bitagent]

So what's their even to discuss? The church of controlled demolition is infallible. Freezeframed youtube videos, circular psuedo science power point presentations and "my eyes not be lyin'!" arguments versus government paid
analysts and the majority of liberals, conservatives and people who laugh at the CD theory.

I never said I thought I didn't think the towers were not ensured to collapse...it's clear to me that if you're going to put something together like 9/11, the main event *is* the destruction of the Two Towers. One has to ensure this happens.

I'm just not convinced "controlled demolition" in the classical sense is the answer I am satisfied with.

Also, in a court of law, what's more easier to prove? That the hijackers were being state sponsored at every turn, or that "the buildings collapsed from controlled demolition and therefore Cheney did 9/11"?

I'm a big fan of movies, like a lot on here.

Could you imagine if Star Wars was merely about the death star blowing up alderan, or Luke getting the lucky shot to destroy the death star? We wouldnt know who pulled the trigger, who funded the death star, ect.

And what does the implication of "CD" mean? Who would have wired the buildings for months, planned it and ultimately pressed the button?

[erosoplier]

As I was saying.

[thegovernmentflu]

So, to sum up the conventional wisdom on The Great Uninvestigated Crime, as of August 2008:

1) NIST's unconscionably belated, helplessly poor and desperately unconvincing explanation of WTC7's collapse is in fact a cunning plot to entrap what the endlessly-wise and well-informed 8bitagent calls "truthers". Being sophisticated (i.e., not being "truthers"), we'd all we well-advised just to ignore that explanation completely. Ours not to reason.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I never claimed to make any definitive statement about it either way in my older post. I was just pointing out that it's completely unnecessary for the establishment to provide the public with any sort of plausible explanation for ANYTHING. Everyone on this board probably figured that out years ago.

So keeping in mind that the public will pretty much buy any explanation, no matter how implausible(the Truthers constantly harp on this fact), why is it so far-fetched that the "911 conspiracy theorists" are the target of this report and not the general public? It seems like a classic honeypot.

I never said that any of this is necessarily true, but I also think that it's a valid theory. Isn't it a rather simplistic view of propaganda to see it as this force that wants to overtly influence your opinion? From what I know about it, it seems much more nuanced than that. Many people think they're wise to propaganda just because they automatically believe the opposite of everything that's on Fox News, and I think those types are falling prey to a form of sophisticated disinformation. But I could be wrong. At least I admit when I'm speculating, unlike CD advocates.

4) No one with any intellectual self-respect will allow himself to be seen making loud noises on the street. That kind of stuff is for the likes of Alex Jones.

You wanna see what happens when people emulate Alex Jones? Look no further than that kid who confronted John Kerry down in Florida. Where do you think this 911 Truther got the idea that he could loudly speak truth to power as long as he refused to back down?. He was obviously scared shitless the entire time, but he was still trying to be assertive when they tried to eject him. And it got him fucking tased.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

So what's their even to discuss? The church of controlled demolition is infallible.

It is called LAWS OF PHYSICS and EVIDENCE, not "a church."
Spooks are trying hard to portray anyone who is certain of something as mentally ill.
As if science and evidence didn't exist. Don't do the same thing.

Freezeframed youtube videos, circular psuedo science power point presentations and "my eyes not be lyin'!" arguments versus government paid
analysts and the majority of liberals, conservatives and people who laugh at the CD theory.

OMG. That's your characterization of laws of physics, physical evidence, and hundreds of credible witnesses?

No wonder you keep putting up threads with "finally explained"-titles pointing people into vague rabbit holes of innuendo proving nothing whatsoever.

I'm just not convinced "controlled demolition" in the classical sense is the answer I am satisfied with.

Which laws of physics do you prefer in your internal movie? Tough.

Also, in a court of law, what's more easier to prove? That the hijackers were being state sponsored at every turn,

You can't even begin to prove there WERE hijackers. Yet this utterly escapes you no matter how many times this is pointed out to you.

or that "the buildings collapsed from controlled demolition and therefore Cheney did 9/11"?

Answer:
Controlled demolition is EASILY PROVEN.
Example:
WTC7 can't come down at perfectly symmetrical free-fall speed without being blown up. It is impossible for all the support columns to fail at the same instant without being blown up. PERIOD. You don't have to be an expert to understand that.
A child can understand that.

The Twin Towers can't be atomized and tons of debris hurled hundreds of feet horizontally in a symmetrical radial pattern without being blown up. PERIOD.
A child can understand that.

What does Cheney have to do with it? YOU are the ONLY one who keeps tying Cheney to demolition. Cut that shit out. Straw men are for those who can't make sense.

And what does the implication of "CD" mean? Who would have wired the buildings for months, planned it and ultimately pressed the button?

EXACTLY. NOW you are pointing at what the PROVEN demolition also indicates, who within the National Security State of spooks and contractors could have done it.

Exploiting the crime and covering it up are altogether other crimes.
That's where you CAN indict Cheney and lots more people.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

The CIA media have their 9/11-themed decoy story deployed in today's news cycle, a story about WTC steel.

Give us this day our daily psyops...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080824/ap_on_re_us/iron___steel_run

World Trade Center steel placed near Pa. 9/11 site

SHANKSVILLE, Pa. - Steel from the World Trade Center has been transformed into a cross and placed near where United Airlines Flight 93 crashed on Sept. 11, 2001, in Pennsylvania.

The 14-foot-high, 3,000-pound monument traveled from New York to the Shanksville fire station Saturday as part of a 300-mile motorcycle escort from New York.

The cross will be dedicated at a ceremony Sunday. That ceremony is not part of the $58 million Flight 93 National Memorial, which will be dedicated on the 10th anniversary of the attacks.

Hijackers crashed Flight 93 near Shanksville when passengers tried to wrest control of the cockpit. It was headed to San Francisco from Newark, N.J.
---
On The Net:

Iron & Steel Run: http://www.ironandsteelnyctoshanksville.com/

[geogeo]

Let me see...those with true power don't have tell anything, while the rest of us have been happily at each others' throats for the last 7 years...and we feel safe being so rude, too, because Jeff is the only identifiable contributor to this list. Wow.

One thing might be true: Cheney and Co. weren't directly involved or in charge, otherwise there would have been a careful trail laid to indict Iraq and possibly Iran. The project of contructing bin Laden was the 90s FBI Counterintelligence folks (NYC base, O'Neill largely responsible) and of course the CIA and etc. The crucial thing is the geography--when Kroll and associates takes over security of WTC, and O'Neill put in charge, certainly there's means, motive and opportunity to do some rigging of the buildings.

My take on CD has always been that it's important, yes, but it has been promoted at the expense of the all-important circumstantial evidence, which can be gleaned from witness accounts in a courtroom, from the revealing of memos, etc. Physical evidence can also be damaging, but not if it's all been hauled away! Thus you suppress all truthful narratives (i.e. truly insider accounts--folks who were in on it), while muddying the waters with hopeless numbers of narratives, some planted, and in the mean time throw some serious support behind something for which the physical evidence is lacking. Helps that many Americans believe, thanks to endless TV crime dramas, that circumstantial evidence is weak while the 'smoking gun' is how you solve the case.

I think something similar might have happened in the JFK issue. And I feel 9-11 slipping away, as if in our lifetimes nothing important will ever truly be revealed.

Sorry.

[geogeo]

It might be helpful to study the history and power that NIST, and the closely related USNO, have. I am still unsuccessful in my search for the reason why, or more precisely at what point, the much ballyhooed Winter solstice of 2012 on 12-21 got set for 11:11 AM. But whatever--those who control the very measurement of time and its synchronization wield enormous power. Time in its "raw" form, whatever that may be, is a very different thing from the time as established by our government (and as enforced by our employers, schools, and so forth).

Anyway, my point is that the agendas of standards-keeping and defining government agencies, national and international, is at the very heart of the ushering in of the NWO. You would expect NIST to have the 'final' word in all the most important lies.

(If my comments on time seem weird, take note that the indigenous territories of Mexico, I learned recently, refuse to observe daylight savings time as implemented by the Mexican government. Every time you go to an Indian town you have to change your watch. And, of course, time is measured and counted in many different ways around the world in those areas where the West does not have hegemony. Just thought I'd point out how deeply we are attuned to and controlled by the imperfect "scientific" truths of our world.