Why I'll Never Support Interventionist Warmonger Obama

[professorpan]

Obama is not SINGING and JOKING about incinerating innocent human beings. Regardless of what you think about his endorsement of the war in Afghanistan, he has stated his commitment to withdrawal of combat troops from Iraq. Which is very different than McCain's lackadaisical "hundred year" plan for occupation.

And unlike McCain, he has never suggested that dropping bombs on innocent human beings, or killing them with cigarettes, is fucking funny.

A few of you seem so myopic in your fixation on Obama's obvious flaws that you can't see the dramatic, clear differences between him and McInsane. Do you ONLY care about the sham "war on terror?" What about someone who wants to get an abortion? What about poor people scraping to pay for health care, or college, or bus fare to get to work? What about your own fiscal situation? What about energy policy? What about the animals and the trees? The air and water?

Imagine this dialogue:

"Yo -- you voting for Obama?"

"Fuck no, man, Obama wants to deploy more troops to Afghanistan. No way can I vote for him. That's the deal-killer. I don't care if my decision results in McCain getting into office. And he voted for FISA, the flip-flopping, sellout motherfucker. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing."

"But what about (human rights, civil rights, air, water, trees, animals, poor people, sick people...)? Huh? Surely, he's a much better advocate for many of those issues than lunatic McCain. You gotta see that. And since we're in a state with a tight race, please, why won't you take the chance to vote AGAINST McCain?"

"What, and abandon my principles? Vote for a lesser evil? No way. I couldn't live with myself unless I voted for someone who embraced my pacifist ideals, advocated revolution, cut the military budget by 90%, and eliminated the death penalty."

"But dude, McCain might win this state! You're willing to let that happen so you can feel righteous? Fuck, man, do you realize what a McCain presidency could do to this country... to YOU?"

"Hey, I refuse to participate in this broken system. Maybe things need to get worse before people wake up and start voting for Kucinich or McKinney or Nader. Maybe things need to fall apart so we can build a just society."

"Wait a minute. You're telling me that you won't take a half hour out of your time to potentially stop McCain -- by casting a vote against him -- because you want the system to fall apart?"

(etc. etc.)

I hope those of you who live in states with potential McCain victories will be able to sleep at night if the bloodthirsty motherfucker wins. I'll hold you accountable, and I won't let you forget you had a chance to stop him and didn't.

[Eldritch]

I hope those of you who live in states with potential McCain victories will be able to sleep at night if the bloodthirsty motherfucker wins. I'll hold you accountable, and I won't let you forget you had a chance to stop him and didn't.

Well, I'm sure THAT will scare the bejeesus out of people.

Funny how you threaten to hold other posters here accountable, but aren't pressing nearly so hard for Obama himself to be held accountable—for his own words and deeds—which threaten his candidacy far more than anyone here possibly could.

[elfismiles]

I hope those of you who live in states with potential McCain victories will be able to sleep at night if the bloodthirsty motherfucker wins. I'll hold you accountable, and I won't let you forget you had a chance to stop him and didn't.

And we'll hold you responsible for when Barack invades Pakistan, Iran, wherever ... and when he expands domestic police state powers and follows in Clinton's fascistic bootsteps.

Deal?

I luv ya pan but no amount of guilting is gonna make me vote AGAINST someone.

[cptmarginal]

Because you can bet your bottom dollar that with McCain as president it'll be a lot harder to effect any meaningful change? Because the world simply can't afford another four years of neocon/republican thuggery?

Actually, it does not seem very hard to imagine a scenario in which Obama's election would be an even bigger block than McCain. As has been said by other people here (but not nearly enough), the choice between Obama & McCain is important for the reason of what psychological effect it is going to have on the US populace & world population at large.

Give people a black or female president in order to signify that "change is here", then proceed to implement a program of policy modifications designed to sound good on TV. Maybe we'll get health care or something out of the deal, but the trade-off is going to be a stupidly satisfied populace which will no longer bitch & moan as they now do re: big bad Bush (who they've been told to hate)

In this scenario, you could bet your bottom dollar that the vast majority of the sweeping Bush-era law & policy changes would not only remain in place, but would do so with the tacit approval of the population. This seems like a very dangerous situation, increasing the likelihood of ignorance about our drastically modified world situation.

Just my speculation; really it just feels very important for me to repeatedly interject this meme into threads: Elections are psy-ops. Please treat them as such.

[compared2what?]

I really can't believe all of you care so much about making me vote for someone I really don't want to support.

If they can get YOU to do it, Elfismiles, maybe they'll be able to shore up their own flagging confidence.

Flagging confidence?

Actually, false hope disguised as pragmatism.

Honey, do my arguments really come across like that? Because I'm honestly not very hopeful. owing to how pathetically limited any pragmatically attainable advantage might be gained by voting for Obama actually is.

Feedback appreciated, since I should really consider firing my inner debate coach if I'm coming across as motivated by the need to protect my falsely hopes and hence my ego.

[justdrew]

Obama is not going to invade pakistan for fucks sake, I don't care what he's said…

Before, it didn't matter to some people what Obama DID—because, after all, they "knew" what his intentions really were.

Now, it doesn't seem to matter to some people what Obama SAYS—because, after all, they "know" what he really means by it.

I know of no way to predict future behavior, except through past performance—in both word and deed.

So you've never heard of the concept that politicians 'position' themselves and pander to some interests and beliefs in order to get elected but then do something else once elected? There might be good reasons to do something different, like maybe the real facts are not publicly known or knowable?

Like if he said, I believe forces in Turkey and the ISI have been conspiring with republicans and Lieberman-types to manipulate us and start wars? They'd laugh him off the stage and it would be over. Sometime';s it NECESSARY TO LIE in order to work a greater good. That's just the way it is.

[Eldritch]

Obama is not going to invade pakistan for fucks sake, I don't care what he's said…

Before, it didn't matter to some people what Obama DID—because, after all, they "knew" what his intentions really were.

Now, it doesn't seem to matter to some people what Obama SAYS—because, after all, they "know" what he really means by it.

I know of no way to predict future behavior, except through past performance—in both word and deed.

So you've never heard of the concept that politicians 'position' themselves and pander to some interests and beliefs in order to get elected but then do something else once elected? There might be good reasons to do something different, like maybe the real facts are not publicly known or knowable?

Like if he said, I believe forces in Turkey and the ISI have been conspiring with republicans and Lieberman-types to manipulate us and start wars? They'd laugh him off the stage and it would be over. Sometime';s it NECESSARY TO LIE in order to work a greater good. That's just the way it is.

How many presidents in your lifetime have pretended to be worse—in order to get elected—and then behaved much, much better once in office?

[Eldritch]

I really can't believe all of you care so much about making me vote for someone I really don't want to support.

If they can get YOU to do it, Elfismiles, maybe they'll be able to shore up their own flagging confidence.

Flagging confidence?

Actually, false hope disguised as pragmatism.

Honey, do my arguments really come across like that? Because I'm honestly not very hopeful. owing to how pathetically limited any pragmatically attainable advantage might be gained by voting for Obama actually is.

Feedback appreciated, since I should really consider firing my inner debate coach if I'm coming across as motivated by the need to protect my falsely hopes and hence my ego.

You yourself were not in my thoughts when I wrote that.

But, generally speaking, I think there is a lot of "false hope disguised as pragmatism" going on in this election cycle—especially whenever the utilitarian argument about supporting the "lesser of two evils" is applied to a discussion.

[elfismiles]

[justdrew]

Obama is not going to invade pakistan for fucks sake, I don't care what he's said…

Before, it didn't matter to some people what Obama DID—because, after all, they "knew" what his intentions really were.

Now, it doesn't seem to matter to some people what Obama SAYS—because, after all, they "know" what he really means by it.

I know of no way to predict future behavior, except through past performance—in both word and deed.

So you've never heard of the concept that politicians 'position' themselves and pander to some interests and beliefs in order to get elected but then do something else once elected? There might be good reasons to do something different, like maybe the real facts are not publicly known or knowable?

Like if he said, I believe forces in Turkey and the ISI have been conspiring with republicans and Lieberman-types to manipulate us and start wars? They'd laugh him off the stage and it would be over. Sometime';s it NECESSARY TO LIE in order to work a greater good. That's just the way it is.

How many presidents in your lifetime have pretended to be worse—in order to get elected—and then behaved much, much better once in office?

irrelevant. this man is not even close to being 'every other president'. I'll give him a chance. If he fucks up, then so be, I'll oppose him just like bush. I strongly believe we're looking at a massive realignment in the shadows here. To describe as metaphor: One mafia family is about to get whacked by another. The "good guys" are going to win. I _know_ it's not all cool and cynical to think that, but fuck it, I'll dare to dream.

You dream and hope and have faith in whatever you want. I'm putting my money on things really, significantly changing course, and they picked Obama to make it clear that there is a choice for us to make. Nasty shit is still going to go on in the dark, but I think the end of American bomb diplomacy is here. It's just not tenable anymore.

[Eldritch]

this man is not even close to being 'every other president'.

How do you know?

His record suggests otherwise.

[justdrew]

his background is what interests me not his 'record' - I could care less about his record, I know he's playing for a different team than the republicans. Don't assume that this country has only one set of powers that be. The non-ascendant powers have been biding their time and now is the push. The big push. It either works or ouyr worst fears will come to pass.

[Eldritch]

his background is what interests me not his 'record' - I could care less about his record…

Are you saying that, because of his "background" (whatever that means), that this somehow makes his troublesome words and deeds something to "care less about"?

…I know he's playing for a different team than the republicans.

And you know this because… of his "background"? Not because of what he has done or said?

Such "evidence" doesn't really inspire a great deal of confidence—however much I might hope your tea leaves are accurate.

[8bitagent]

Why I'll Never Support Interventionist Warmonger Obama nor any other War Party.

Heard this bit on the radio last night and I nearly puked in disgust.

Biden's invocation of 911 / War on Terror and Obama's desire for more troops in Afghanistan ... @ 4 minutes 10 seconds into this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09ugYiF5tSI

"Or should you believe Barack Obama who said a year ago 'we need to send two more combat battalions to Afghanistan.' <sheeple cheers> The fact of the matter is al-Qaeda and the Taleban, the people who actually attacked us on 911, they've regrouped in the mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan, and they are plotting new attacks. And the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has echoed Barack's call for more troops. John McCain was wrong and Barack Obama was right. <sheeple cheers>"

GET YER WAR ON FOLKS!

F*ing sickening.

"Who actually attacked us"

Fuck you Obama bin Biden and every braindead liberal who thinks Muslims from a goddamn cave orchestrated 9/11, the result of blowback and "incompetence". FUCK THAT MEME. Hundreds of thousands of dead Afghanis and Iraqis are rotting in the ground BECAUSE OF THIS MEME.

THANK you for posting this.

It fucking boils my blood how so many Democrats, liberals and "anti war" people support the war on terror, the war in Afghanistan and the official 9/11 bullshit. I don't even think I could be friends with someone who believed this nonsense at this point. Im just so sick of it all.

[marmot]

I agree with you.

I know, Eldritch. Sorry for not posting your entire thought. Your position, though, I'm certain, is clearly understood by everyone reading this thread.

The danger with the voting-as-a-TOOL metaphor is the image it conjures of the people wielding power, when, in truth, the real instrument of power is in the hands of the TOOL who counts the votes.

Even the term "voter fraud" is one of those crafty think tank terms (read psy-ops). The phrase, in my mind at least, conjures up images of the voters themselves being the ones responsible for any fraudulent votes, safely protecting the real manipulators from coming under fire.