The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby kenoma » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:51 pm

March 12, 2010
Pope knew priest was paedophile but allowed him to continue with ministry


This is fucking huge.
Really serious. The Pope has to send out a letter to the Irish congregation addressing the Irish child sex abuse scandal before the end of Lent: how's that going to work out now that he's been accused of exactly the same behaviour he was expected to condemn? And I don't know much about German law, but imagine that the Pope's protection of a known paedophile may possibly be actionable. Not to mention his brother's connection to a separate abuse scandal.

Off the top of my head I think only one pope has ever resigned, but I seriously think this may force this fucker out. Perhaps health reasons shall be cited.

chiggerbit wrote:It's pretty clear that these victims, at best, were considered collateral damage. But I think it's time to ask whether the sexual victimization of children was perquisite of the job.

QFT. It was, it seems, the 8th sacrament.
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby Simulist » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:51 pm

I'd just like to ask all remaining contributors to the Roman Catholic Church a question.

Since you're still voluntarily supporting this outfit with your money, how can you live with yourselves?
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby chiggerbit » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:32 pm

(conspiracy)
▸ noun: a plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act (especially a political plot)
▸ noun: a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act
▸ noun: a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose

TALKING POINTS

~But that's ok, because most of these weren't cases of true pedophilia. Everybody knows that it's not near as bad to force an 11-year-old to have anal sex as it is to force a 10-year-old to do the same thing, right? (Whew, good thing 70$ of them were boys, otherwise there might have been a lot more pregnacies.)
~Even though Ratzinger sent a priest to treatment back before he became Pope, he wasn't responsible for the decision to send the priest back to a different flock where the priest re-offended. The Pope is being hounded.
~And other churches are way, way worse than the Catholic Church is, anyway.

chig


http://tinyurl.com/y9ru5rg

Vatican officials defend pope on abuse
By FRANCES D'EMILIO, Associated Press Writer
57 mins ago



VATICAN CITY – The Vatican on Saturday denounced what it called aggressive attempts to drag Pope Benedict XVI into the spreading scandals of pedophile priests in his German homeland.

It also insisted that church confidentiality doesn't prevent bishops from reporting abuse to police.

The Vatican's campaign to defend the pope's reputation and resolve in combatting clergy abuse of minors followed acknowledgment by the Munich archdiocese that it had transferred a suspected pedophile priest to community work while Benedict was archbishop there.

Benedict is also under fire for a 2001 church directive he wrote while a Vatican cardinal, instructing bishops to keep abuse cases confidential.

Germany's justice minister has blamed the directive for what she called a "wall of silence" preventing prosecution.

Skeptical about the Vatican's handling of abuse, a U.S.-based advocacy group for abuse victims, Survivors Network of those Abused for Priests, urged faithful to bring candles and childhood photos to vigils outside churches, cathedrals and German consulates across the U.S. this weekend to remind people to "call police, not bishops" in cases of suspected abuse.

But the Holy See's so-called prosecutor for clergy sex abuse cases, providing some of the first statistics about his office's handling of allegations, decried what he called "false and defamatory" contentions that Benedict had promoted a "policy of cover up."

At the Vatican, rules on handling sexual abuse were "never understood as a ban on making a complaint to civil authorities," Monsignor Charles Scicluna told Italian bishops conference daily Avvenire.

But Irish bishops have said the document was widely taken to mean they shouldn't go to police. And victims' lawyers in the U.S. say the document shows the church tried to obstruct justice.

Scicluna contended that in countries that do not oblige bishops to go to authorities with allegations of abuse, "we encourage them to invite the victims to report these priests."

The Maltese prelate said the pope had taken on the "painful responsibility" of personally deciding to remove those priests involved in "particularly grave cases with heavy proof."

Those cases amounted to about 10 percent of some 3,000 cases handled by the Vatican in the last decade, what Scicluna described as a small fraction of the 400,000 priests worldwide, and cover crimes committed over the last 50 years.

Clergy in another 10 percent of the cases were defrocked upon their own request, said Scicluna, adding that among them were priests in possession of pedophilia-pornography or with criminal convictions.

Meanwhile, the scandal swirling around Benedict's brother, Georg Ratzinger, escalated with the first public allegations of abuse of choirboys during some of the 30 years he ran the boys' choir in Regensburg. Thomas Mayer told Germany's Der Spiegel weekly that he had been sexually and physically abused while a member of the Regensburger Domspatzen boys choir through 1992.

The pontiff's brother led the group from 1964 to 1994. Previously reported cases of sexual abuse date back to the late 1950s.

Mayer charged in Spiegel that he had been raped by older pupils. Spiegel quoted him as saying that pupils were forced to have anal sex with one another in the apartment of a prefect at the church-run boarding school attached to the choir. The Regensburg diocese has refused to comment on the report.

The Vatican spokesman, speaking to Vatican Radio and Associated Press Television News, defended Benedict.

"It's rather clear that in the last days, there have been those who have tried, with a certain aggressive persistence, in Regensburg and Munich, to look for elements to personally involve the Holy Father in the matter of abuses," the Rev. Federico Lombardi told Vatican Radio.

"For any objective observer, it's clear that these efforts have failed," Lombardi said, reiterating his statement a day earlier noting the Munich diocese has insisted that Benedict wasn't involved in the decision while archbishop there to transfer the suspected child abuser.

Lombardi told The AP that "there hasn't been in the least bit any policy of silence."

"The pope is a person whose stand on clarity, on transparency and whose decision to face these problems is above discussion," Lombardi said, citing the comments by Scicluna, who works in the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, which was long headed by Benedict before his election as pontiff.

"To accuse the current pope of hiding (cases) is false and defamatory," Scicluna said.

As Vatican cardinal in charge of the policy on sex abuse, the future pope "showed wisdom and firmness in handling these cases," Scicluna said.

He said in the first years after the 2001 directive, most of the 3,000 cases came from the U.S., where dioceses across the nation were rocked by allegations by priests and systematic cover-ups by hierarchy and drained by hefty lawsuits by victims.

Only about 10 percent of the case dealt with "acts of true pedophilia," Scicluna said, while 60 percent of the cases involved priests who were sexually attracted to male adolescents. Some 30 percent of cases dealt with heterosexual abuse, he said.

How the Vatican has handled the cases since the 2001 directive provides "a very important signal to all the bishops of the church to face these problems with the required seriousness, clarity, rapidity and efficiency," Lombardi said.

The Catholic church in Switzerland has become swept up in the scandals. Swiss daily Neue Zuercher Zeitung quoted a Benedictine abbot, Martin Werlen, as saying that the Swiss bishops conference and various dioceses are investigating allegations after 60 people came forward to say they were victims of abuse by priests.

Shortly before becoming pope, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger denounced what he called "filth" in the priesthood, but so far hasn't directly commented on the cases in his homeland.

He has promised to write a letter soon to faithful in Ireland about decades of systematic abuse in church-run schools, orphanages and other institutions in that predominantly Roman Catholic nation.

The Archdiocese of Munich and Freising, where Benedict served as archbishop from 1977 to 1982, says that a working group, established last month after allegations of abuse in a church-run school, would be expanded to include an external, independent legal office.
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby Ben D » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:51 pm

Apart from the sorry fact of the general and overall corrupt state of the catholic church which is not a new development, there does seem, IMHO, the possibility that the campaign currently underway against the pope/catholic church is being orchestrated by some persons/organizations unknown.

Facebook users wage condom campaign against Pope
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:31 pm

Ben D wrote:Apart from the sorry fact of the general and overall corrupt state of the catholic church which is not a new development, there does seem, IMHO, the possibility that the campaign currently underway against the pope/catholic church is being orchestrated by some persons/organizations unknown.

Facebook users wage condom campaign against Pope


It's no secret that the Pentecostals, the Dominionists, and the Mormons rate us no higher than Pagans. Old-time pagans. The Orange Lodge, Unionists, Loyalists, Wee Frees and Presbyterians, at least in Scotland and Ireland, see us also as the very embodiment of evil, and a threat to their power - Satanists in warm weather, and probably Commies when it's cold. And they all have very clear and obvious ulterior motives for painting us that way. Hell, even the Larouchies like to get a kick in now and again.

But the real problem is that the Vatican keeps making them right! If there's one thing we're not supposed to argue about, it's the fallibility of the Pope. Which is difficult when many Catholics just frankly despise the guy.

I'd just like to ask all remaining contributors to the Roman Catholic Church a question.

Since you're still voluntarily supporting this outfit with your money, how can you live with yourselves?


When the collection plate comes round, you suddenly realise why they sew those extra buttons inside suits.
FFS. Do you pay taxes, Simulist? To a nation state? Does that nation state wage war upon others, in which people die? Do you feel responsible for their deaths? Do you write for the Daily Mail? :lol:
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby chiggerbit » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:22 pm

Do you pay taxes, Simulist? To a nation state? Does that nation state wage war upon others, in which people die? Do you feel responsible for their deaths?


Speaking for myself, the answer is yes. And if I wouldn't get sent to jail for it, I wouldn't pay my taxes.
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby norton ash » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:41 pm

I have to go to Catholic funerals, weddings, baptisms. To not do so would be unkind to my family. There it is... I hate it, but it ain't worth the grief of taking a stand/making a 'statement', so I suck it up.

I'll mock the dumb-ass priests afterward, and occasionally bait my siblings for raising their kids Catholic. They're not religious. To them it's just part of being middle-class. Tribalism, traditionalism.

I used to help my Dad buy, warehouse and deliver food bank groceries for the St. Vincent de Paul Society. I was fine with that, he asked me if I would help. I was also fine with delivering his eulogy and picking the psalms and gospels for his mass... the aforementioned siblings knew it had to be me.

That's the human side, the light side. The rest of it is just an Empire death cult, and I say to hell with it.
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby Simulist » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:44 pm

AhabsOtherLeg wrote:
Simulist wrote:I'd just like to ask all remaining contributors to the Roman Catholic Church a question.

Since you're still voluntarily supporting this outfit with your money, how can you live with yourselves?


When the collection plate comes round, you suddenly realise why they sew those extra buttons inside suits.
FFS. Do you pay taxes, Simulist? To a nation state? Does that nation state wage war upon others, in which people die? Do you feel responsible for their deaths? Do you write for the Daily Mail? :lol:


Paying taxes to an evil empire is compulsory; making a voluntary gift to an organization with a history of enabling pedophiles isn't.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:21 pm

Simulist wrote:Paying taxes.... to an organization with a history of enabling pedophiles....


You don't pay taxes to the US government then? Fair enough. Me neither. I don't give money to the Vatican either. I am in full agreement with you.
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby Penguin » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:41 am

Well, belonging to the catholic church is entirely voluntary, whereas paying taxes to Uncle Sammy not so much. They will take the taxes out of your cold dead fingers, unless you move the hell out.

Ah, seems Simulist came up with the same defense already, above.
And since I got my countrymen serving in Afghanistan, Ive been trying to make do with no money and no job so I dont have to pay for them that much. As it is, I currently reside in the lowest possible tax bracket, which is around 8% of income :p
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby Sounder » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:12 am

http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/catho ... dal-widens

Following Ahriman does sick things to ones psyche.

There are plenty of progressive Catholics still in the Church, and the larger community may be better off with these folk in the Church, rather than out of it.

(Although this call can reasonably be argued against by asserting that good folk need to remove themselves entirely so that they don't inadvertently provide cover for creeps.)
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:00 am

Didja see the special edition of CIA-Time out on the news stands now? "Secret Societies." CIA ain't mentioned. Lotsa Masonic crap...
CIA-Newsweek did a special edition with that theme not too long ago, a few months.
The boyz are having to be repetitive to misdirect away from themselves and other dangerous cults.

Released Christmas 2008, the nun doubts the ethics of the priest who turns out to be innocent-
Image

Streep vs Hoffman and she's wrong/he's moral?
By no coincidence, Meryl Streep vs Dustin Hoffman was the set-up for 'Kramer vs Kramer' in 1979, just after Fritz Kraemer retired. Streep was the bad mommy and Dustin Hoffman was the moral father. Typical fascist social engineering.

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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:19 am

The current pope is the Bernanke of the Vatican.
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby smiths » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:30 am

i pay money each week into a catholic kitty,
it goes to a priest in sri lanka who is doing his best to keep people alive, safe and fed in a dangerous country everyone is ignoring,

you guys subscribe to a demented view of religious people and dont seem to understand the reality,

there are very few thinking catholics who have any respect or affection for the church, most i know would not be displeased to see the complete collapse of organised Catholicism,
but they would still go about every day of their lives praying, reading the bible and attempting to do good works to help people less fortunate than themselves,
the core of christianity as a belief system as preached by its most famous advocate is love, assistance, forgiveness, non-violence and an engagement with community,
whatever the pope or gordon brown does, pedophilia is a crime and a sin according to christianity
the question is why, who, why, what, why, when, why and why again?
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:28 am

smiths wrote:i pay money each week into a catholic kitty,
it goes to a priest in sri lanka who is doing his best to keep people alive, safe and fed in a dangerous country everyone is ignoring,

you guys subscribe to a demented view of religious people and dont seem to understand the reality,

I just hope that your Catholic do-gooder in Sri Lanka isn't a CIA-backed shill like Father Tom Dooley in Vietnam who helped stampede tens of thousands of panicked Catholic North Vietnamese towards South Vietnam using atrocity propaganda. Many died in transit and many more upon arrival with no infrastructure to support them. The Catholic elite and Catholic superstitions were CIA assets during the Cold War.

I have respect for the Berrigan brothers, Fathers Philip and Daniel, for their anti-Vietnam War activism.
And for the liberation theology Catholic clerics in Latin America resisting fascism.

But the Vatican itself is a fascist organization, just like the White House in Washington, D.C.

there are very few thinking catholics who have any respect or affection for the church, most i know would not be displeased to see the complete collapse of organised Catholicism,
but they would still go about every day of their lives praying, reading the bible and attempting to do good works to help people less fortunate than themselves,
the core of christianity as a belief system as preached by its most famous advocate is love, assistance, forgiveness, non-violence and an engagement with community,
whatever the pope or gordon brown does, pedophilia is a crime and a sin according to christianity

Christians who follow the teachings ascribed to Jesus can't go wrong. Stick with the Beatitudes.
Christians who fall for HQ are mired in authoritarian fascism and mind control.
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