So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

[Nordic]

I know surprisingly little about 8bitagent. I know nothing about his background or lineage. I do not know where 8bitagent was educated or what he has done besides poison the relationship between teacher and student. Nevertheless, I can tell you all that you need to know about him. Permit me this forum to rant. Contrast, for example, his views with those of the most morally questionable schmucks you'll ever see, and observe that there is no contrast. I, by (genuine) contrast, take the view that he says that advertising is the most veridical form of human communication. Whenever I hear such statements from 8bitagent I reel in disbelief. Does he really believe such dangerous things? Before you answer, let me point out that if one dares to criticize even a single tenet of 8bitagent's circulars, one is promptly condemned as unsavory, insensitive, hidebound, or whatever epithet 8bitagent deems most appropriate, usually without much explanation.

Worst of all, our children's children would never forgive us for letting 8bitagent shame my name. If I recall correctly, if you'll allow me a minor dysphemism, he is too contemptible to reason with. Or, to phrase that a little more politely, when a friend wants to drive inebriated, you try to stop him. Well, 8bitagent is drunk with power, which is why we must convince conniving, twisted spongers to stop supporting 8bitagent and tolerating his excuses. 8bitagent proclaims at every opportunity that he'd never get as many people as possible to line up behind the geek-tent barkers at the latest and greatest carnival of paternalism. The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks. He knows that performing an occasional act of charity will make some people forgive—or at least overlook—all of his refractory excesses. My take on the matter is that 8bitagent definitely believes that his barbs provide a liberating insight into life, the universe, and everything. What kind of Humpty-Dumpty world is he living in? Many people consider that question irrelevant on the grounds that I am not interested in debating 8bitagent. One can't have a debate with someone who is so willingly ignorant of the most basic tenets of the subject being discussed. Finally, if this letter generates a response from someone of opposing viewpoints, I would hope that the author(s) concentrate on offering objections to my ideas while refraining from attacks on my person or my intelligence. I've gotten enough of that already from 8bitagent.

Could you cut that out? It's getting kind of old, and I just spent the last seven minutes carefully reading that, trying to figure out what you were talking about before I figured it out.

Seriously, it's kind of annoying. Or maybe I'm just grumpy.

[OP ED]

i blame my parents generation for not overthrowing the government back during the vietnam war.

[82_28]

I know surprisingly little about 8bitagent. I know nothing about his background or lineage. I do not know where 8bitagent was educated or what he has done besides poison the relationship between teacher and student. Nevertheless, I can tell you all that you need to know about him. Permit me this forum to rant. Contrast, for example, his views with those of the most morally questionable schmucks you'll ever see, and observe that there is no contrast. I, by (genuine) contrast, take the view that he says that advertising is the most veridical form of human communication. Whenever I hear such statements from 8bitagent I reel in disbelief. Does he really believe such dangerous things? Before you answer, let me point out that if one dares to criticize even a single tenet of 8bitagent's circulars, one is promptly condemned as unsavory, insensitive, hidebound, or whatever epithet 8bitagent deems most appropriate, usually without much explanation.

Worst of all, our children's children would never forgive us for letting 8bitagent shame my name. If I recall correctly, if you'll allow me a minor dysphemism, he is too contemptible to reason with. Or, to phrase that a little more politely, when a friend wants to drive inebriated, you try to stop him. Well, 8bitagent is drunk with power, which is why we must convince conniving, twisted spongers to stop supporting 8bitagent and tolerating his excuses. 8bitagent proclaims at every opportunity that he'd never get as many people as possible to line up behind the geek-tent barkers at the latest and greatest carnival of paternalism. The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks. He knows that performing an occasional act of charity will make some people forgive—or at least overlook—all of his refractory excesses. My take on the matter is that 8bitagent definitely believes that his barbs provide a liberating insight into life, the universe, and everything. What kind of Humpty-Dumpty world is he living in? Many people consider that question irrelevant on the grounds that I am not interested in debating 8bitagent. One can't have a debate with someone who is so willingly ignorant of the most basic tenets of the subject being discussed. Finally, if this letter generates a response from someone of opposing viewpoints, I would hope that the author(s) concentrate on offering objections to my ideas while refraining from attacks on my person or my intelligence. I've gotten enough of that already from 8bitagent.

Could you cut that out? It's getting kind of old, and I just spent the last seven minutes carefully reading that, trying to figure out what you were talking about before I figured it out.

Seriously, it's kind of annoying. Or maybe I'm just grumpy.

Hahaha! You are grumpy!

I just posted a defense of you btw on that 8bit thread. Yes, it is annoying. That's why I did it. That is the beauty of it. It is annoying seeing anonymous people get pilloried with big words that sound exactly like the complaint generator. The quoted text sounds no different than the generator. That is the only reason I did it. I am sorry!

[orz]

8. The lack of... you know... TRUTH.

[lupercal]

8. The lack of... you know... TRUTH.

I don't think there's any lack of truth in the 911 truth movement, along with distraction and limited hangout artists aplenty. So as far as 8bitagent's question goes, I'd rephrase it to ask, "So Whose Fault Is the Perception that '9/11 Truth' Was An Abysmal Failure?"

When put like this, the mental geography becomes clearer. The propaganda pushback on 911 is a wonder to behold. An entire department of federal government, the DHS, was created largely to prop up the official story, with other miscellaneous repressive functions like the harassment of immigrants and airline travelers tossed in for good measure.

Anyway 8bit, it sounds like you've been listening to Michael Ruppert, who's apparently been expressing this same sentiment and attempting to divert attention from 911 to his peak oil hobbyhorse for the last five years. Lately he's been making the rounds pushing his new movie. He's an interesting character with lots of inside dirt no doubt, but he's wrong about 911, and you really have to ask yourself who he's working for.

p.s. the new board looks fantastic, props to Jeff and the rest!

[chump]

Thank you Alice (and also Hugh) for taking the time to dissect 8bits nonsensical rant; otherwise I was going to just let this dog lay.

I have also studied 9/11 ad nauseum; read dozens of books and literaly thousands of articles and watched numerous videos and listened to countless interviews trying to figure it out. I still don't know shit. Nevertheless, I'm gonna swallow my puke and try to briefly address the "points" made by 8bit at the top. FWIW.

First of all, you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater when you dismiss Alex Jones, Loose Change, and some of the Jew bashers. Alex Jone's, '9/11 Road to Tyranny' was an eye opener to me. It did a good job providing the historical context in which 9/11 took place. The video's analysis of OKC was quite a revelation. It also highlighted the many connections between the two. I don't care to listen to the AJ show much at all; and I haven't heard him in months. But I can't disagree with most of the things I've heard him say. He describes a paradigm that is a lot closer to reality than the one portrayed on television - especially regarding 9/11.

Loose Change demonstrated very effectively that a controlled demolition brought down at least three towers on that day. The smoking gun: They fell at almost free-fall speed. The video blew away the governments contention that airplanes caused them to collapse.

Loose Change also expounded on the Pentagon no-plane (or should I say no 757) theory to my satisfaction. Please explain to me why that is not so obvious. There is no damage on the lawn, and I'm being told to believe that a 757 slammed into the first floor, through three or four rings of a newly constructed section and disintegrates without breaking the windows where the wings supposedly slid through.

But don't get me wrong! Alex Jones wouldn't be so prominant if he didn't convey a message that the PTB want to be heard. I haven't quite figured that out yet. Maybe, his faction of "truthseekers" has become what I think is referred to as a 'limited hangout'; or a lightning rod to gather the names and addresses of those who are with the terrorists. He has become a major source of the 911 genre - a cottage industry onto himself. But perhaps the flow of information made available through his show has a purpose other than what even he is aware of.

I noticed that the first edition of 'Loose Change', along with a couple of other videos, highlighted a flash that occurred in all of the videos taken of the second aircraft as it slashed into the WTC. What was that? This section of the video disappeared from the subsequent editions (but is still available on the net). It could have been a trick, or a tricky double trick, but maybe somebody wanted that part removed when the "Loose Change" team joined forces with Alex Jones and later supposedly teaming up with Mark Cuban to re-release the third or fourth or fifth editions.

I don't put a lot of creedence in that video. It's another piece of the puzzle. Frankly, I didn't know that it was made by a 'supposed film student'. Does he have a manufactured background? That would be interesting.

Daniel Hopsicker said (on Dave Emory) that he could say what he does because he is somewhat protected by certain elements of the CIA who had a reason to encourage him to do so. Nevertheless, I definitely recommend "Barry and the Boys" and "Welcome to Terrorland" as two of the top books to read on the subject of 9/11. It is an amazing history of the CIA's drug running activities and a great background for understanding 9/11.

Personally, I think Christopher Bollyn is on to something. I don't know who is the boss of who, but for a long time there has been a network of prominant Zionists in key positions of business, government, security, law enforcement and the courts to pull this off; especially with the help of Skull and Bones, organized crime and whoever else was in a position to get a piece of the action.

I agree with you that the mainstream liberal, left bloggers such as the ones you mentioned are a waste of time, but I couldn't really say. I only scan them now occasionally. Are the right wing conservatives blogs any better? I doubt it. I think it is too much crap to wade through to, maybe,catch something that's newsworthy. RI has some of the best news that I know of, but I still have on my waders. There are still a few sites left, but over the years I've seen the blogosphere become more and more crowded, yet sanitized. Pretty soon it will be as bad as TV.

For me, it is important to know the truth (even though it hurts). I know 9/11 was an inside job. No matter how you look at it, 9/11 was a product of the 'deep state'. While these investigations have revealed a number of individuals that should be brought to trial, if the people who are authorized to do something about it don't do it, what is this discussion going to accomplish? A new investigation? More hearings? I don't know about the rest of the people here, but I remember JFK, and the similiarities between the two events are astonishing. How many assasination hearings did they parade accross the networks over the years about that? What good did it do?

Furthermore we are perpetuating a reality that is of their making. 9/11, like 11/22, has been ingrained into our consciousness. The way it stands, there is so much information and disinformation out there; we can read and speculate and argue 'til the end of time, but the only ones who know what really happened are the ones that arranged it. And they're gleefully raking in the profits, and the power, and control while we dwell on the past. 9/11 is like a film over our eyes and we can't see clearly. We're being led around in the fog.

Speaking for myself, I think I need to transcend the fog, and the bickering, so I can see more clearly.

[17breezes]

"and some of the Jew bashers."

wtf???

[Wombaticus Rex]

"and some of the Jew bashers."

wtf???

awkwardly stated formulation of the concept that detailed and systematic criticism of Israel as a nation and Zionism as a philosophy should not be equated with simple "Jew bashing"

...is my guess.

[Canadian_watcher]

some great posts here - thanks everyone.
I'd like to third (or fourth or fifth) the compliment to Alice's post.
Chump, nice one too.

[eyepen]

Alice that was brilliant.


Chump I see your point. AJ's bullhorn is obnoxious, but his message is closer to the point than its opposite.



Nordic, ditto on that auto complaint generator. I started reading it going wtf? Then realized what it was. I think it contaminates the thread too because some people will have no clue it was done by the auto complaint generator.

[barracuda]

The comments here just reinforce my beliefs that the attackers have done a bang-up job of compartmentalising the operation. There enough breadcrumbs on the dark floor of this forest to drive Hansel and Gretel to cannibalism. How many ways can we fold this origami narrative? An incomplete recap of the who done its:

- The alphabet agencys and the US Military

- The neocon PNAC-er crew

- Big Dick Cheney and BushCo. LIHOP/MIHOP

- Jihad P-TECHers puppeted by CIA

- Israel

- The NWO Illuminati Occult Numeralologists

The high profile conspiracy circus clowns such as Alex Jones and, yes, 8bitagent, always seem to reach for the stars by assuming last group on the list, but that's the research methodology that kept the JFK killers safe in their beds, and leads to ideas which tie the Face on Mars to the crime of 911. I've seen it done, so I know you can do it.

And that list is just culled from this little four page thread amongst a group of monumentally like-minded writers numbering less than fifteen. Mix and match these ingredients as you wish, but anyway you do, some one of or combination of these usual suspects is closer to the truth than the others, simple as that. Someone here is basically right about what happened.

I blame controlled demolition, to a degree. I don't care if it's true or not, it's never taken us closer to justice, and has effected the thrust of knowledgable discourse in much the same way as "no planes", only bigger. Not to say that that couldn't change with some future finding. But the physical evidence is not what brought anyone closer to understanding 11/22. It was patient research separating the wheat from the chaff.

[Hammer of Los]

Lets take a look at that list (bold for emphasis, my comments in italics);

The comments here just reinforce my beliefs that the attackers have done a bang-up job of compartmentalising the operation. There enough breadcrumbs on the dark floor of this forest to drive Hansel and Gretel to cannibalism. How many ways can we fold this origami narrative? An incomplete recap of the who done its:

- The alphabet agencys and the US Military - Well, certainly some of those involved worked with and in and through those permanent institutions.

- The neocon PNAC-er crew - These lot are strongly connected with Cheney and other "crazies" from George Herbert Walker Bush's administration.

- Big Dick Cheney and BushCo LIHOP/MIHOP - You are naming names here. Let's leave aside the fake LIHOP/MIHOP dichotomy.

- Jihad P-TECHers puppeted by CIA - Sure they needed patsies. The international islamic brigades they created years ago serve many purposes. And who might be powerful enough within the CIA establishment? You'd have to have been head honcho or something.

- Israel - Well, its clear Israeli intelligence knew about it. Whether they had to uncover it or were told I couldn't say. Told, most likely, simply because it could not have been kept secret for long. Of course they are a scapegoat in certain strands of disinfo. We know how the game is played. In this list it looks like the joker in the pack.

- The NWO Illuminati Occult Numeralologists - They want to bother you with this rubbish. That's why George Herbert Walker Bush fondles pyramids.

Come on, put your thinking caps on. It's a question of identity. All of the above bar Israel could easily be seen to represent the workings of a secretive group within the government and military. Might there not actually be a single figure behind the various cronies, thugs, puppets, allies, proxies and sons to have populated the highest echelons of US government for decades? I mean, you simply must have had influence in more than one US administration to coordinate something like this. It's clear that the highest powers in the United States simply must have been behind an operation of this scale and audacity. They've been running the show since they had JFK gunned down. The bay of pigs crowd. You know.

Of course, I could be wrong.

[Sounder]

I should say, first off, I’m not much into CT. So while I do read (to) much of the material, I count on others to do the analysis. We do need to leave ample room for (mis-guided) beliefs to be what colors the picture rather than nefarious agendas and Alaya is speaking well to this.

Alaya wrote…

True but needs change too and people go through phases of backing up, retreating and going forward again.

I thought there was more of a sense of community here. None of us are static. Sometimes we are all over the place, instead of being focused. So what?

The way I see it, we all need the space room to be less than perfect.

We cannot be perfect but credibility comes from answering objections and not by running away from them.

Kenoma wrote…

BTW, I remember well that the usually voluble 8bit fell silent for a long period of time (3 months I think) just after this long-forgotten thread, in which the ludicrous fable where the head of a very large and sophisticated intelligence agency would personally wire money to an alleged field operative was challenged. I thought that silence indicated some rethinking of his position re: the dubious role of ISI in 9/11. But really it seems he had a very naive understanding of tradecraft, since he continued as before.

I remember this as well, and when he came back later with the same suspect script, still more salt was needed to flavor his material.

Nathan28…

But otherwise, besides it being bad form to bash someone who just left....

Yes, very convenient here, so lets break into two ‘groups’, with one faction thinking there is something worthy to analyze here and another faction suggesting we drop it because its bad form.

DoYouEverWonder wrote…

According to the Official Fairytale, 4 hijacked passenger jets flew around the NE US for over 2 hours and no one did anything to stop them. Give me a break. The only way this could happen is if the planes were never hijacked. Atta and the boys were nothing more then glorified drug runners. Even if they were on the planes, they probably all thought they were doing another drug/money run. Just another day.

Lots of people are playing a part that is different than the part they may ‘think’ they are playing.

[Nordic]

Lots of people are playing a part that is different than the part they may ‘think’ they are playing.

Well that's the extremely simple truth that people tend to overlook. The patsies don't realize they're patsies. There's a whole 'nuther "plot" that they're involved with, that turns out to be a wild goose chase on their part. Kind of like the "fake" invasion of France to throw off the Nazis, right?

Then there's the stuff designed to throw off the investigators .....

9/11 is apparently a masterpiece of ALL of this. Which is why it's impossible to actually figure out.

[Wombaticus Rex]

Re: Pyramid fondling -- that actually turns out to be a remote control. I got to physically touch one at a pawn shop. They do exist elsewhere, and control a large plastic and totally outdated proto-surround sound system.



BTW, not debunking your intended point, I still think it's equally as significant to include in a photo op. Who knows what evil lurks...