Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby lupercal » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:23 am

Inequality In America Is Worse Than In Egypt, Tunisia Or Yemen
Friday, January 28, 2011

Egyptian, Tunisian and Yemeni protesters all say that inequality is one of the main reasons they're protesting.

However, the U.S. actually has much greater inequality than in any of those countries.

Specifically, the "Gini Coefficient" - the figure economists use to measure inequality - is higher in the U.S.

Image

Gini Coefficients are like golf - the lower the score, the better (i.e. the more equality).

According to the CIA World Fact Book, the U.S. is ranked as the 42nd most unequal country in the world, with a Gini Coefficient of 45. In contrast:

Tunisia is ranked the 62nd most unequal country, with a Gini Coefficient of 40.

Yemen is ranked 76th most unequal, with a Gini Coefficient of 37.7.

And Egypt is ranked as the 90th most unequal country, with a Gini Coefficient of around 34.4.

And inequality in the U.S. has soared in the last couple of years, since the Gini Coefficient was last calculated, so it is undoubtedly currently much higher.

So why are Egyptians rioting, while the Americans are complacent?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/01/ ... an-in.html
.........................................

Yes, so why are Egyptians rioting? Maybe because they're paid to, like this little feller?

Image

Freedom (for banksters, bombsters and BP) is on the march!
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby lupercal » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:34 am

Mubarak says protests a plot to destabilize Egypt
Friday 28th January, 2011, Israel News.Net

Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has appeared on national television for the first time since protesters took to the streets demanding his ouster.

At the same time Lieutenant General Sami Enan, the Egyptian army's chief of staff, who was meeting U.S. defense officials in Washington, cut his trip to the U.S. short and departed the United States for Cairo.

http://www.israelnews.net/story/737500/ ... lize-Egypt
...............................
So the Egyptian army's chief of staff is holed up in the Pentagon while the shit hits the fan, hmm... maybe Mubarak is onto something?
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby lupercal » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:46 am

This article by a former Israeli government analyst indicates that "questions" about Mubarak's commitment to peace with Israel have been floating for years. Notice how this issue is neatly attached to "the U.S. effort to open the Arab Middle East to democracy and free markets," i.e. to banksters and Walmart sweatshops:

Egypt and Israel: A Reversible Peace
by Dan Eldar, Middle East Quarterly, Fall 2003, pp. 57-65

For the first thirty years of Israel's existence, Egypt was its archenemy. The two countries fought a war per decade for four decades: 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973. President Anwar Sadat's historic decision of 1977 to achieve peace with Israel broke the cycle. He believed Egypt could achieve its strategic goals by means other than war. When he declared his famous appeal for "No more wars," he was saying that Egypt could only regain sovereignty in Sinai by signing a peace treaty with Israel, relying on the assistance of the United States. It was a cold calculation.

{snip}

But beyond the issue of Egyptian rhetoric are larger questions about the long-term trajectory of Egypt's regional policy. Is Egypt effectively only in a state of temporary truce with Israel while it builds up its own military capabilities and incites others to erode Israel's strategic, political and economic assets? Is Egypt one more obstacle on the obstacle-strewn path to securing Palestinian and Arab acceptance of Israel? If the answer is yes, or maybe yes, how should Israel and the United States respond? These questions are not unrelated to questions Washington is already asking itself about whether Egypt under Mubarak is a liability or an asset in the U.S. effort to open the Arab Middle East to democracy and free markets.[36]

These questions must be asked with greater frequency, and with less complacency, right now. Later may be too late. Continued U.S. support for the Egyptian military is not the best guarantee of peace, which requires deeper roots in Egyptian society if it is to last. As the United States considers the mix of aid for a post-Mubarak Egypt, it would do well to ask whether its resources would be better applied to education for peace and democracy. Without a change in attitudes, there will be little to prevent a future ruler of Egypt from reversing the country's course as dramatically and suddenly as Sadat did with dire consequences for the entire region.

Dan Eldar is adjunct research fellow at the Moshe Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and African Studies, Tel Aviv University. He was previously senior analyst at the Israeli prime minister's office.

http://www.meforum.org/565/egypt-and-is ... ible-peace
............................

So the US and its partners-in-the-Middle-East weren't best friends with Mubarak after all? Gee what a shock!
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby hava1 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:45 pm

responses in Israel are strange. First it was apathy (we are in control), now - somewhat of a panic (maybe the intelligence was unprepared). The Bibi's had a huge party in their huge Villa today, to remind us that while Mubarak is faltering, the local pigs are happy and safe in their bastions.

Courtesy of Alice here I bothered to read Bzezinsky on "global awakening", and yes, the Obama situation seems premeditated to absorb the rage of the thrid world masses. But on second look, is there any way to contain the situation ? not sure. So Hail bzez...

ISrael now happy with the new vice pres, a friend of the IDF and a "reasonable man".

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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby nathan28 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:21 pm

lupercal wrote:Inequality In America Is Worse Than In Egypt, Tunisia Or Yemen

...And inequality in the U.S. has soared in the last couple of years, since the Gini Coefficient was last calculated, so it is undoubtedly currently much higher.

So why are Egyptians rioting, while the Americans are complacent?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/01/ ... an-in.html
.........................................

Yes, so why are Egyptians rioting? Maybe because they're paid to, like this little feller?

Image

Freedom (for banksters, bombsters and BP) is on the march!


Can you actually answer the question? What would a genuinely democratic movement look like? What would a genuine world-historical moment look like?



To attempt to deal with this seriously, you're full of self-important condescension: you imply that the only way to take a world-historical political movement in the ex-colonized world seriously is to see an exactly identical contemporaneous movement in the US (and presumably Israel and the UK, homes of your other bete noires).

To start, China, Brazil and Mexico all have greater income disparity than the US. Mexico and Brazil are facing ongoing structural political turmoil as the drug industry fills the gaps the legitimate state and economy fail to address, see, e.g., the recent campaigns in the faevelas. I think the simple fact that you can describe armed gov't action on its own streets as a campaign should indicate something. In China, union protests have been massive and ongoing as well as suppressed violently but largely quietly--the CCP doesn't want to admit it serves bourgeois interests and the anglosphere press refuses to acknowledge that workers have rights, and prefered to focus on the much smaller Falun Gong crap, which has fallen by the wayside.

on edit, cross-posted: China blocks "Egypt" from all search engines under its auspices, according to Falun Gong's Epoch Times.

So suggesting that b/c the US isn't in turmoil despite greater inequality doesn't work--because in nations with even greater inequality, there is substantial upheaval.

Likewise maybe you didn't realize it, but there's protests outside the UN building, you know, in New York, and the Egyptian embassy in DC. You know, like, in America.

And you seem a little ignorant on the issue of banking:

SUBJECT: SENATOR LIEBERMAN’S FEBRUARY 17 MEETING WITH GAMAL MUBARAK

...Gamal, a former international banker, opined that the U.S. needed to “shock” its financial system back to health, and said that Egypt -- which had so far escaped much of the pain of the global economic crisis -- was preparing to face tough economic times ahead. The Ambassador, Senator Lieberman’s foreign policy adviser, and the ECPO MinCouns as note taker were also present. End summary.


http://213.251.145.96/cable/2009/02/09CAIRO326.html


Gee, I wonder if "shock" means higher interest rates, drastically cut spending and raised taxes, you know, deflationary policy to assuage bondholders. The CIA must have put that there!
Last edited by nathan28 on Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby Simulist » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:33 pm

lupercal wrote:So why are Egyptians rioting, while the Americans are complacent?

Maybe Egyptians are smarter.
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby tazmic » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:04 pm

So why are Egyptians rioting, while the Americans are complacent?

The Americans have Hope.
"It ever was, and is, and shall be, ever-living fire, in measures being kindled and in measures going out." - Heraclitus

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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:40 pm

It's started so well I think we may be able, with an additional exertion of stupid, to set some kind of record here.

Whatever could be the differences between Egypt and the US in the department of factors driving the country's people to rise up and risk their lives in immediate revolution? It's such a mystery, since conditions in Egypt must be, according to the lupertazmic logic of picking up one indicator completely without context, rhyme or reason, way better than in the US! Unless, of course, you realize that each of those Cairene rock-throwers was hired by the Agency!!!

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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby vanlose kid » Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:53 pm

JackRiddler wrote: ...

Whatever could be the differences between Egypt and the US in the department of factors driving the country's people to rise up and risk their lives in immediate revolution? ...

.


corn syrup?

right?

*
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby lupercal » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:30 pm

^ oh come on, I'm sure the point wasn't lost even on you vanlose, or maybe it was, so let's see if this helps: the supposedly intolerable conditions in these countries are nothing of the kind, and the "yearning to be free" actually pushing all this fake astroturf along is more likely to be coming from Wall Street than the Arab street, and let's not leave out Langely and Houston and London and as it appears Paris.
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:38 pm

lupercal wrote:^ oh come on, I'm sure the point wasn't lost even on you vanlose, or maybe it was, so let's see if this helps: the supposedly intolerable conditions in these countries are nothing of the kind, and the "yearning to be free" actually pushing all this fake astroturf along is more likely to be coming from Wall Street than the Arab street, and let's not leave out Langely and Houston and London and as it appears Paris.


FFS Sake prove it.

Oh wait you can't, cos you are wrong about this.

So wrong its not funny. I'm sorry but thats just how it is.
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby lupercal » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:47 pm

hava1 wrote:responses in Israel are strange. First it was apathy (we are in control), now - somewhat of a panic (maybe the intelligence was unprepared). The Bibi's had a huge party in their huge Villa today, to remind us that while Mubarak is faltering, the local pigs are happy and safe in their bastions.

Courtesy of Alice here I bothered to read Bzezinsky on "global awakening", and yes, the Obama situation seems premeditated to absorb the rage of the thrid world masses. But on second look, is there any way to contain the situation ? not sure. So Hail bzez...

ISrael now happy with the new vice pres, a friend of the IDF and a "reasonable man".

--

Thanks hava1, that's pretty much what I'd expect so merci bien for the update. Whether Bibi's military or intelligence agencies are playing direct operational roles in this or not, they have a stake in the endgame, and regime change appears to be the favored outcome.
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:53 pm

Try and convince me, cos I am open to it.

But you'll need to show the motive, the means and the opportunity and relate them to what happened in Tunisia and elsewhere.

Seriously, whats their motive? Why? What do they gain?

So far nothing I can see. I may be wrong, but honestly I cannot see Mubarak ever rebuilding his army to attack Israel. Not in a million years. If Egypt under the ... well I'm gonna call it previous ... regime was so unaccepting of Israel they haven't shown it with their attitude to gaza.

And why would anyone in the west want instability in Egypt? Especially with a hostile Egypt as a possibility. The IDF could barely hold it together in Lebanon a few years ago. They basically lost that fight, despite the casualty rates. Egypt has a much better military and can access Gaza and use it as a fortress. No way would you want that if you were a western hegemonist.

I can't see a reason for it.

If you can then can you explain it?
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby jingofever » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:59 pm

lupercal wrote:the supposedly intolerable conditions in these countries are nothing of the kind

AlicetheKurious, as far as I know the only person here that lives in Egypt, agrees with the grievances of the protesters. Why do you disagree with them? Because of the way a map is colored?
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby Simulist » Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:08 pm

Joe Hillshoist wrote:Try and convince me, cos I am open to it.

But you'll need to show the motive, the means and the opportunity and relate them to what happened in Tunisia and elsewhere.

Seriously, whats their motive? Why? What do they gain?

While Lupercal is still busy trying to answer that question, here's another one:

Why might intelligence agencies want to spin so many of these things (the current unrest in Tunisia and Egypt and the revelations of WikiLeaks, for just three examples) as events which they themselves are orchestrating?

To make themselves seem much more formidable than they really are, of course!

(Intelligence agencies no doubt took a lesson from Gideon, who made his forces appear more powerful to his enemies than they really were, confounding them — and prompting them to turn on each other in their confusion. A well-done psy-op, from the original book of psy-ops, the Bible.)
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