Truth activists/bloggers snatch defeat from jaws of victory

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Re: Truth activists/bloggers snatch defeat from jaws of vict

Postby JackRiddler » Fri May 06, 2011 11:08 am

vanlose kid wrote:more in the same vein from here:

American Dream wrote:http://www.counterpunch.org/hallinan05062011.html

Bin Laden and the Great Game

By CONN HALLINAN



According to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Director Leon Panetta, the U.S. never informed Pakistan about the operation to assassinate al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Ladin because it thought the Pakistanis could "jeopardize the mission" by tipping off the target.

[a dismantling of this statement and derivation of far likelier implications follow.]



I was just coming to post this scenario here from the other thread. Thanks vk and AD for transmitting Hallinan.

I regard it as a strong and compelling case at this stage, one that explains many loose threads. OBL as a captive of ISI, with US knowledge, and the US gets the option to decide when the time comes to kill him for best effect. This could date all the way back to the Tora Bora "escape" or the "Taliban airlift" corridor allowed to the ISI by Rumsfeld in 2001. (Maybe the kill option and/or knowledge of his precise whereabouts was denied to the Bush regime, who after all were happy to have an amorphous "Bin Ladin out there" threat and also like plausible deniability?) Note that this scenario means the OBL "story arc" is just as faked and engineered for propaganda purposes as if he were dead and frozen and then dethawed. The faking and engineering is an ISI + US collaboration. What it conflicts with is the idea that "Pakistan is enemy" or "Pakistan is incompetent and US acted alone to kill OBL," instead saying that ISI elements are entangled with the US spook web in collaborating to construct both the overarching terror threat (NOT the reality of an unpacifiable Waziristan but the metanarrative of an Everywhere AQ) and the counterterror operations, with profit opportunities plentiful on both sides of that process.

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Re: Truth activists/bloggers snatch defeat from jaws of vict

Postby 8bitagent » Fri May 06, 2011 5:15 pm

JackRiddler wrote:
vanlose kid wrote:more in the same vein from here:

American Dream wrote:http://www.counterpunch.org/hallinan05062011.html

Bin Laden and the Great Game

By CONN HALLINAN



According to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Director Leon Panetta, the U.S. never informed Pakistan about the operation to assassinate al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Ladin because it thought the Pakistanis could "jeopardize the mission" by tipping off the target.

[a dismantling of this statement and derivation of far likelier implications follow.]



I was just coming to post this scenario here from the other thread. Thanks vk and AD for transmitting Hallinan.

I regard it as a strong and compelling case at this stage, one that explains many loose threads. OBL as a captive of ISI, with US knowledge, and the US gets the option to decide when the time comes to kill him for best effect. This could date all the way back to the Tora Bora "escape" or the "Taliban airlift" corridor allowed to the ISI by Rumsfeld in 2001. (Maybe the kill option and/or knowledge of his precise whereabouts was denied to the Bush regime, who after all were happy to have an amorphous "Bin Ladin out there" threat and also like plausible deniability?) Note that this scenario means the OBL "story arc" is just as faked and engineered for propaganda purposes as if he were dead and frozen and then dethawed. The faking and engineering is an ISI + US collaboration. What it conflicts with is the idea that "Pakistan is enemy" or "Pakistan is incompetent and US acted alone to kill OBL," instead saying that ISI elements are entangled with the US spook web in collaborating to construct both the overarching terror threat (NOT the reality of an unpacifiable Waziristan but the metanarrative of an Everywhere AQ) and the counterterror operations, with profit opportunities plentiful on both sides of that process.

.


Well there's now no use arguing over the intentional anomalies in the OBL raid story. Obama says it happend, "al Qaeda" says it happened, and honestly it's a distraction from 9/11 truth and the real agenda: ramping up war and framing Pakistan. It's a hitman outing his partner.

I'm just curious, why the major major wikileaks bin Laden stories 5 days before the raid? "bin Laden shocked the towers fell", "al Qaeda vows nuclear attack if bin Laden killed", "all of al Qaeda was in Pakistan, some at a hospital in Rawalpindi the day of 9/11". Poof goes the renal failure story in this latest narrative. Maybe kidney failure and "Tim Osman" is a hoax too.
Hillary is saying the US and Pakistan are still best buddies, but Penneta and the heads of the defense and others are all saying Pakistan double crossed us and supports al Qaeda and the Taliban.

I fear something happening in India being blamed on Pakistan, almost more likely than a false flag in America at this point
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Re: Truth activists/bloggers snatch defeat from jaws of vict

Postby HamdenRice » Sun May 08, 2011 7:21 am

JackRiddler wrote:.

HR, you know I love to see your stuff, always thoughtful even when I disagree. In this case, I certainly agree with the general observation that the "truth movement" doesn't know its opportunities when they appear, but that's been true since the new war games and Able Danger stories made no particular stir for it in 2005, or earlier really, and irrelevant since its final intellectual hijacking by the LC/AJ/WAC axis and the All-Demolitions All-the-Time approach in 2006.

I think you have to accept that the sum total of OBL stories before and since Sept 11 are largely in black-box territory.


Hi Jack, a lot to think about and I'm still thinking!
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Re: Truth activists/bloggers snatch defeat from jaws of vict

Postby 8bitagent » Sun May 08, 2011 9:04 am

HamdenRice wrote:
JackRiddler wrote:.

HR, you know I love to see your stuff, always thoughtful even when I disagree. In this case, I certainly agree with the general observation that the "truth movement" doesn't know its opportunities when they appear, but that's been true since the new war games and Able Danger stories made no particular stir for it in 2005, or earlier really, and irrelevant since its final intellectual hijacking by the LC/AJ/WAC axis and the All-Demolitions All-the-Time approach in 2006.

I think you have to accept that the sum total of OBL stories before and since Sept 11 are largely in black-box territory.


Hi Jack, a lot to think about and I'm still thinking!


Hamdem, I reread your OP and agree. However, the public both on and offline seem to have zero tolerance for questioning the official narrative. And now that the Pakistani ISI/al Qaeda/Taliban meme is not just mainstream but being pushed by the government and media, it's really the CIA that has some "splainin' to do". I do think this should be an opportunity for truthers and anti war activists to pounce, but thanks to the brilliant birther ruse(another PTB obfuscation trick), questioning events are as hated as the sept 12th 2001-2003 period. Course, now its the left acting as the rowdy pro war right.

See, because it doesn't matter that the first victims of the anthrax were the last to rent the hijackers a place to live. It doesn't matter that bin Laden's top financier owned the company whose software was on virtually every high level government system on 9/11. It doesnt matter that the hijackers were in close contact with defense company personnel and even former army trainers like Bert Rodriguez.
It doesn't matter that the WTC 1993 al Kifah center thats a direct al Qaeda/MAK spinoff morphed into the Logan Furniture wherehouse-care international-BMI-Ptech nexus funded by Saudi Arabia and linked to Aaifa Siddique. It doesnt matter that hijacker helper and new head of al Qaeda dined at the Pentagon right after 9/11. Or that so many of the Saudi officials flown out days after 9/11 had direct ties to the hijackers and al Qaeda. Or that beheading victim Nick Berg and the pilot of Wellstone's plane all had their stuff on the 9/11 hijacker's laptops

None of it matters, because the truth is sealed away. They "got their man" bin Laden, tidy as a bow. And that's that. Sounds defeatest? Oh I know your frustration. As much as I entertain and or support the tower theories, the "physical anomaly" stuff was so loud that it drowned out all the other stuff. Now of course the raid never happened, bin Laden was put on ice in 2001, and we live in a holographic world of subjective troof:)
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Re: Truth activists/bloggers snatch defeat from jaws of vict

Postby jingofever » Sun May 08, 2011 3:10 pm

Is it possible the helicopters really did dodge Pakistani radar?

From 2008, Pakistan Air Force gets latest American radar system. Is it possible that the United States sells radar systems around the world that they can penetrate undetected?
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Re: Truth activists/bloggers snatch defeat from jaws of vict

Postby thatsmystory » Sun May 08, 2011 5:53 pm

8bitagent wrote:
Hamdem, I reread your OP and agree. However, the public both on and offline seem to have zero tolerance for questioning the official narrative. And now that the Pakistani ISI/al Qaeda/Taliban meme is not just mainstream but being pushed by the government and media, it's really the CIA that has some "splainin' to do". I do think this should be an opportunity for truthers and anti war activists to pounce, but thanks to the brilliant birther ruse(another PTB obfuscation trick), questioning events are as hated as the sept 12th 2001-2003 period. Course, now its the left acting as the rowdy pro war right.


The Wikileaks saga ties into this:

1) Selective information release by the US government to fit the desired narrative. The self righteous accusations now leveled at Pakistan remind me of State Department condemnation of torture in other countries.

2) Wikileaks was portrayed as a quasi terrorist organization because they challenged the single source official narrative.

3) The authoritarianism involved in all of this is a key aspect.

Authoritarian followers usually support the established authorities in their society, such as government officials and traditional religious leaders. Such people have historically been the “proper” authorities in life, the time-honored, entitled, customary leaders, and that means a lot to most authoritarians. Psychologically these followers have personalities featuring:

1) a high degree of submission to the established, legitimate authorities in their society;
2) high levels of aggression in the name of their authorities; and
3) a high level of conventionalism.*

*Conventionalism. By conventionalism, the third defining element of the rightwing authoritarian, I don’t just mean do you put your socks on before your shoes, and I don’t just mean following the norms and customs that you like. I mean believing that everybody should have to follow the norms and customs that your authorities have decreed. (page 20)

The Authoritarians, Chapter 1
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Re: Truth activists/bloggers snatch defeat from jaws of vict

Postby JackRiddler » Wed May 11, 2011 11:37 pm

.

This article illustrates the frequent usefulness of deconstructing official stories on their own terms.


http://counterpunch.org/leupp05112011.html

May 11, 2011

"Shut Up and Move on About the Realities"
The Death of Bin Laden: a Scenario


By GARY LEUPP


The movie version, first draft.

Twenty-five heavily armored commandos descend in a two Blackhawk stealth helicopters into the valley surrounded by the scenic Sarban Hills. Lights still glitter in Abbottabad, a city of 80,000, just after midnight. The silent choppers hover momentarily over the heavily fortified compound, then land in the courtyard next to the trash incineration heap.

A lone defender fires a weapon at the SEALs from one of the buildings. Unflinching, the heroes enter and shoot him down. They blow away his wife, then blast their way through a wall to enter the main house. It’s a simple, rudimentary structure without air conditioning. An unarmed man appears on the first floor. They shoot him dead. An 18-year-old boy, also unarmed, appears on the stairway. They kill him immediately.

Bounding up the stairs past the corpse, the commandos find a 29 year old woman. She lunges at them, crying out Osama’s name. One of them shoots her in the calf. Someone binds her wrists while others climb the stairs to the fourth floor.

There they find their quarry in his pajamas, defenseless. Without hesitation, they shoot him in the chest, following up with a shot to the head that blows off half his skull. His 12-year-old daughter looks on.

In a “situation room” in the White House, the president and other top officials anxiously watch live video feeds from cameras mounted on Special Forces’ helmets, until the feed fails for 25 minutes. They do not see the death of bin Laden.

The special forces, proud and professional, quickly handcuff the 15 surviving women and children, leaving them there for Pakistanis security to detain and question. Then they gather intelligence: files, computers, video tapes, flash drives. Finally they soar into the sky in one of the stealth choppers with their precious cargo, Osama bin Laden’s bloody carcass.

This all needs to last 38 action-packed minutes, fully half of it to the intelligence-gathering.

After an appropriate musical interlude accompanying the helicopter flight over the majestic Khyber Pass we see the heroes back at Bagram Airfield in Afghanistan. The corpse is photographed and subjected to DNA testing. Somber-faced troops haul it onto another aircraft and fly south to the Arabian Sea. We watch a Muslim chaplain conduct a brief service before the body, wrapped in a sheet, is dropped into the water below.

I’m not really sure about what happened. The story has been altered many times in the last few days. But this is probably a realistic depiction of events.

The problem is, it doesn’t really inspire the film viewer. Maybe some would break into applause and chants of “USA! USA!” in seeing young Hamza blown away, or seeing Osama’s wife Amal crumble to the floor. But there’s no heroism here. It’s more like a horror flick.

So on to the second draft.

What this scenario needs, if it’s to get financing and become box-office hit, is an intense firefight fought inside a mansion. The Arab men should use their women as human shields, establishing their cowardice and contempt for women’s lives and highlighting the difference between Good and Evil. Fighting should continue throughout the operation, culminating with the engagement with bin Laden on the top floor. He should be reaching for his AK-47 on a table when a commando shoots him in the chest in self-defense.

In the White House, Obama and other top officials should be viewing the mission throughout, somberly following each advance.

The thing is, this is precisely the scenario originally announced. “After a firefight,” Obama announced the night of the action, “a small team of Americans with extraordinary courage…killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body.” The next day John Brennan, Obama’s counter-terrorism coordinator, stated that bin Laden had been “hiding behind women who were put in front of him as a shield.” A senior defense official at a Pentagon briefing repeated the story; bin Laden “and some other male combatants on the target appeared to use—certainly did use women as shields.”

Brennan called the firefight venue “a million-dollar-plus compound.” In fact, as Bloomberg reports, “Video of the interior featured rooms with basic, inexpensive furniture. More luxurious homes in Abbottabad are listed for less than $500,000.” But in the movie the house should be elegantly furnished, with ornate Persian rugs, teak furniture, polished bronze candlesticks, a fine brass hookah, silk curtains and so on.

It was initially reported that Obama and his national security team had seen everything. “It was probably the most anxiety-filled periods of times,” said Brennan. “The minutes passed like days, and the President was very concerned about the security of our personnel.” “Those were 38 of the most intense minutes,” declared Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. For the film, best to stick to that script and leave out the 25 minute gap in the live feed.

Some other ideas for the screenplay:

Some Pakistanis should be shown secretly monitoring events, perhaps from the nearby military academy, mortified that their complicity with al-Qaeda will be revealed, and contemplating action against the U.S. forces. This will help justify the violation of Pakistan’s sovereignty and make the commandos appear more heroic, since they risk engagement with local military.

The U.S. and bin Laden forces should be evenly matched to make it seem a fair fight. Some SEALs should at least be injured. Women soldiers (think of the Jessica Lynch myth) should play key roles, and there should be some African-Americans although in real life there aren’t may among the SEALs.

Osama should be wearing a bullet-proof vest, surviving the wound to his chest enough to take further threatening action. Perhaps the 12-year-old daughter, screaming, could rush to him and he could hold her close (as a human shield) forcing the heroes to blow the 6’4” Saudi’s brains out.

There should be tons of the blue pills on Osama’s bed stand. (Remember how Viagra was found in the luggage of Saddam Hussein’s son Uday, after U.S. soldiers assassinated him?) And some gay porn. (Recall how U.S. troops reported finding this in Manuel Noriega’s office?) It could be right next to an open Qur’an. A blueprint for a nuclear weapon should be laid out on the desk. And a stash of marijuana in the top drawer.

The thing is---this might very well happen. In 2002 HBO aired the television “Live from Baghdad” which featured the infamous fiction that Iraqi troops invading Kuwait in 1990 had removed prematurely born babies from incubators, leaving them to die. (The charges were made on the eve of “Operation Desert Storm” by a daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador, coached by the Hill & Knowlton advertising firm. They had been disproved over a decade earlier.) But hey, it makes for great drama.

Lies often serve the warmongering elite. From the sinking of the U.S.S. Maine in Havana Harbor in 1898 (falsely attributed to Spanish forces) that justified the Spanish-American War to the Gulf of Tonkin Incident of 1964 that justified the Vietnam War to charges of al-Qaeda ties and weapons of mass destruction that justified the invasion of Iraq in 2003, they pile on the lies. The neocons have an articulated theory about “noble lies” needed to generate public support for actions that wouldn’t be possible otherwise.

In this case, the discrepancy between the initial reports and later “corrections” has been attributed to the “fog of War.” Such a nice concept. War, you see, is so inherently confusing that misreporting is the norm. Nobody’s fault, surely. But what are we to believe happened in this case? Why was the counter-terrorism advisor so wrong? Did he misinterpret audio and visual reports from the ground? Did the sound of maybe a dozen assault rifle bursts over 20 minutes sound like a firefight? And was it not clear within hours of the episode that there had been only one instance of resistance in the first minutes of the operation?

The cynical (and not so cynical) might theorize that the initial false reporting was deliberate. Tens of millions will no doubt have been convinced forever that this was a heroic battle, and that those questioning that view are supporting the enemy. Those who peddle disinformation know that the truth will eventually come out, but by that time the purpose has been achieved. Many were ecstatic at the original version, gathering spontaneously to wave the flag and chant USA! USA! They won’t be inclined to listen to the debunkers.

Sen. John Kerry is among those with little patience for those who question and criticize. “I think those SEALs did exactly what they should have done,” he declared May 8. “And we need to shut up and move on about, you know, the realities of what happened in that building.”

Shut up and move on about the realities of what happened! In other words, agree without knowing or question that the commandos did “exactly what they should have done.” By definition, virtually.

I think of the old Beatles song: “Turn off your mind, relax and float downstream,” because this is what Kerry asks us to do. Why should we bother with “realities” when we have the psychological refuge of unthinking patriotism?

I think too of an unnamed Bush administration official’s statement to Ron Suskind on the eve of the invasion of Iraq, contemptuously dismissing “what we call the reality-based community.” These are people, the official elaborated, who “believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” He continued: “That’s not the way the world really works anymore. We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality, we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”

That sort of sentiment remains alive and well in the Obama administration and the whole power structure. Empire creates its own realities, and wants everybody to shut up.


Gary Leupp is Professor of History at Tufts University, and holds a secondary appointment in the Department of Religion. He is the author of Servants, Shophands and Laborers in in the Cities of Tokugawa Japan; Male Colors: The Construction of Homosexuality in Tokugawa Japan; and Interracial Intimacy in Japan: Western Men and Japanese Women, 1543-1900. He is also a contributor to CounterPunch's merciless chronicle of the wars on Iraq, Afghanistan and Yugoslavia, Imperial Crusades. He can be reached at: gleupp@granite.tufts.edu

We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

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Re: Truth activists/bloggers snatch defeat from jaws of vict

Postby JackRiddler » Wed May 11, 2011 11:42 pm

.

Obviously related threads:

OSAMA BIN LADEN ANNOUNCED DEAD BY OBAMA (The big one, currently 49 pages)
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31969

Black Box OBL (Me arguing for ISI-CIA collusion thesis in OBL death show)
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32007

It’s All About Pakistan - America’s latest villain (Raimondo, push to blame Pakistan, perhaps even attack Pakistan)
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32034

Truth activists/bloggers snatch defeat from jaws of victory (Hamden's critique of "OBL long-dead" approach)
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31981

Surging Towards Disaster in the "Afpak Theatre" (selection of Afpak war developments since Feb 2009)
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23040

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Truth activists/bloggers snatch defeat from jaws of vict

Postby 2012 Countdown » Thu May 12, 2011 5:32 pm

Bin Laden’s Death Won’t End Toll on Taxpayers


Even in death, Osama bin Laden will be taking revenge on American taxpayers for years to come.

The U.S. government spent $2 trillion combating bin Laden over the past decade, more than 20 percent of the nation’s $9.68 trillion public debt. That money paid for wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as additional military, intelligence and homeland security spending above pre-Sept. 11 trends, according to a Bloomberg analysis.

This year alone, taxpayers are spending more than $45 billion in interest on the money borrowed to battle al-Qaeda, the analysis shows.

The financial bleeding won’t stop with bin Laden’s demise. One of every four dollars in red ink the U.S. expects to incur in the fiscal year beginning Oct. 1 will result from $285 billion in annual spending triggered by the terrorist scion of a wealthy Saudi family.

Without bin Laden, “we would have accumulated less debt, be spending less on interest and we would be on a lower spending path going forward,” said Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, a research organization in Washington.

Along with the dollars-and-cents toll, bin Laden has left behind a less quantifiable imprint on American life. Thousands of families have suffered grievous loss from the Sept. 11 attacks and the two wars. U.S. government buildings in Washington and around the world have grown to resemble fortified bunkers. And the line between government power and individual liberty was redrawn as agencies gained new powers to combat a novel threat.

Costs ‘Ad Infinitum’
---
“We’re on this new road that’s been created. We’ll veer a little left. We’ll veer a little right,” Meacham said. “But the road has been laid out.”


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-1 ... ayers.html
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