Can tension become creative?

[vanlose kid]

ps: re this:

I might as well give my opinion sitting here since noone wants to discuss workout routines....

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[vanlose kid]

just a point on the analyst/speculator divide, and "Rigorous Intuition". the below from stefano is a perfect example of intuition without rigor i reckon, the intuition being that if p: the copernican model is correct then q: stones don't fall from the sky and p: the copernican model is correct – therefore q. no empirical testing is necessary. that of course proved to be wrong although the logical inference is valid. (possible scenario.)

...

My favourite story along those lines is the one about the French Royal Academy in the 18th century: having adopted the Copernican model of the galaxy they thought that it was impossible for rocks to fall from the sky and convinced museum curators all over Europe that their meteorites were not, in fact, meteorites at all, and the curators promptly tossed them all out.

...

the relation between R and I as i see it, is the I is the beginning, a hunch, which if developed can produce a hypothesis, which of course has to be tested. that's where R comes in. e.g. when Jeff, with all the available info re 911 in hand says: if you want to know what happened here you have to follow the money.

that's intuition forming a hypothesis, not proclaiming a truth ex-cathedra. it hasn't been tested by or with rigor, which entails doing all the hard mundane boring work of following up the leads and documents and movements of parties etc. now one can contest the intuition or not as one wishes. but the intuition alone only provides a way of possibly finding out what happened on 911. that's all intuition can do. that's why rigor is needed.

one should test one's own intuitions and be willing to have them subjected to testing.

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edit: creativity, art, science, thought, need both R and I. need the tension between the two.

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[IanEye]

fuck your fascist beauty standards...

Too right.

i hadn't thought of eye shot myself dotcom in quite a while. then this whole weiner exposé occurred and the double entendre crept into my mind.

Weiner "shot himself" in more ways than one.

ala Spitzer, Weiner took on powerful forces and the stress and tension of this task led him down a path one might see as destructive.

but maybe he could have done it more creatively.

"I am Anthony Weiner, and when I am not busy challenging the elite who feel they can use the entire Judicial branch of Government as their personal lobbying arm, I like to take naked self portraits. Come see my latest gallery showing at Mass MoCa."

Perhaps this post was more on point:

.

.

[Sounder]

82-28 wrote…

People's hang-ups that force them to destroy shit never ceases to amaze me.

Yes, more wonder of this world.

Thank-you stefano and searcher08 and everyone else.

Please excuse the apparent interruption and/or the scattered presentation.

A few days ago my boss, (in a two man remodel business) told me that his young daughter tried to commit suicide the day before. He was asking for advice so I went into a bit of monologue about misplaced priorities created by a culture that uses transitional objects as substitutes for a lack of connection to authentic expressions of self. Ok, sure, -over the top, but I actually used ‘simpler’ words than the ones written here. At any rate, ---- interjected that what he was most upset about were the lies of his wife. I commented that there were all kinds of ways to lie. ---- blew up at this, proclaiming that yes indeed, sure, he was the fucked up person here, with sarcasm. I responded by saying; ‘You know, funny thing, I was just thinking about something like this this morning, and it seems to me most peoples troubles are the result of believing ones own stories.’

Perhaps better context is called for. The day before I brushed my boss off when he rationalized the length of time that a partial bath remodel was taking by saying that he could not purchase the shower pan until he was sure of the dimensions of the space. Keeping my mouth shut seemed like a better option than blurting out that if a person cannot figure out the available space between two walls before he tears it out then maybe he doesn’t belong in the remodel business. Still, my boss likes to do ‘good’ work and that covers for many faults in my book.

The preceding was the implied reference for the ‘believing ones own story’ story. My efforts may sound cruel on the face given the context of the suicide attempt. But it is a reasonable self interest to try to reduce exposure and connection to pathological expressions. Also, compassion does not always come wrapped with a bow, indeed it is almost always quite painful to account for and establish a relationship with ones unconscious drivers. My compassion is for the daughter and her victimization because of the sick psychical expressions of two very dysfunctional parents.

My boss seems to be breaking down even while he keeps a chipper face on things with his British accent and ‘all the best’ salutations. I may well soon see if in fact, whatever does not kill you will make you stronger.

[82_28]

I guess I am not done with this thread after all.

Sounder, thanks for that. I have a similar story about a remodeler I once worked for as well, but will save for a later date. I super hope your boss and his family can sort this out. Shit like that is always hard, especially with dysfunctional familial situations. My girlfriend's friend has a daughter who tried to do the same last year and is now heavily medicated, though maybe not as heavily as when it first went down.

But let me relay this story I have about tension, suicide, depression and etc. I was suicidal (well, quasi suicidal for about two years -- I did not want to live at all, but did not want to leave those who I loved high and dry -- conflicted with deep pain). Honest to god, I came out of it by beginning to post here. I was telling my girlfriend about this dust up last night and I said "seriously, were it not for RI, you, my dad, Sara etc etc, I would not be here today". I used and do use this place as a creative outlet and did so with a view to not whining about my shitty ass life, but to add to what I think is a creative-ass community on topicality. Often, because I was so depressed, like contemplating death depressed, I would come to RI to distract myself. I got over my paranoia in posting here by getting over my depression by communicating here -- QED. To lose RI would not be as awful as the losses I accrued those years and the dysfunctional way (I believe) I handled things inside due to a resurgence of my sometimes brutal OCD. But the creativity and the love here saved me. All by perfect strangers and by way of the creativity, I have made new friends all across the globe.

I was surfing all the depression sites, medication sites all the time, just trying to find some kind of answer to the pain I was feeling. And you motherfuckers saved me, every last one. This is where I came to grieve and to once again live, in edifying fashion. This is how I feel about this place. It is what it is. And what it is is what it is. Sure, we cover a bunch of depressing-ass shit here, yet at least people here are thinking. It's not nice to push people out when they come in peace and this is disturbing, to me. We are not all the same. We're all here and must trust that similar routes are also being followed to get to here by each and every one of us.

[brekin]

I guess I'm not sure what this thread is about.
I thought it was about how much tension should be allowable
or is worthwhile and to what extent it is productive.
Reviewing it seems like it is a potpourri of things including
workout routines.

I thought it'd be good to define acceptable behavior and non acceptable
behavior to clear up some discourse muckiness, but looks like that hasn't gained traction.

My two cents whether tension can be creative?
I quote Sting on The Police from memory.
"You need some tension to be creative with others. Without tension a bass string just
sounds like a fart."



And for workout routines? I'll quote Sting again:

Sting: I came to Yoga late in my life. I'm probably in my fourth year now which would mean that I started when I was 38 or 39. It's actually my regret that I didn't begin earlier. I think I would have been further along the path than I am now had I started earlier. But then again, perhaps I wasn't ready. I have been through various fitness regimes before, you know. I used to run about five miles a day and I did aerobics for awhile. I always stayed fit because I'm a performer and all of those things help me to perform. But it wasn't until I met Danny Paradise, who became my mentor in Yoga, that I started the practice which I feel I will stay with for the rest of my life. I would like to. I feel it is a path that is involved enough to keep developing. It's almost like music in a way; there's no end to it. I think once you've run five miles in a reasonable time, as you get older, you can either sustain that time or it gets worse. That's pretty frustrating. I think, if anything, one of the most exciting things about Yoga is that as I get older I seem to get better at certain parts of the practice, which is very inspiring. It makes you want to keep going. If anything, it's reversing the aging process. I can do things with my body now that I wouldn't even have thought of doing when I was an athlete, a teenager. So that keeps me going. This is something I want to keep doing.

[Allegro]

... edit: creativity, art, science, thought, need both R and I. need the tension between the two. [REFER.]

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Thanks, VK.

[§ê¢rꆧ]

§

Of course tension becomes creative!



(Still I hate myself for reading these meta threads with so much interest sometimes - they can be compelling when reading but not satisfying afterwards usually)

[Luther Blissett]

Does anyone want to see me make a muscle?

[justdrew]

a BEAST OF A MAN

took a while to find a version with the intro intact...

[ShinShinKid]

I like to run, and I've been getting back into kendo, which is tons of fun.
Jujutsu resembles yoga in many ways, and there's always good ol' Okinawan Bare Knuckle workouts, which also resemble some good hard yoga.
My latest thesis regarding yoga is that Bodhidarma was a decsendant of a lieutenant/ captain(?) in Alexander's army; with some date research I should be able to come up with something more coherent...

[Joe Hillshoist]

I like to run, and I've been getting back into kendo, which is tons of fun.
Jujutsu resembles yoga in many ways, and there's always good ol' Okinawan Bare Knuckle workouts, which also resemble some good hard yoga.
My latest thesis regarding yoga is that Bodhidarma was a decsendant of a lieutenant/ captain(?) in Alexander's army; with some date research I should be able to come up with something more coherent...

Wow that'd be some interesting research if it goes anywhere. Keep us updated.

I found out Erle Montaigue died earlier this year Jan I think, just yesterday. I always found the stuff I learned that he brought to the west (tho its controversial) to be good. His chi kung and yoga exercises mixed together - depending on how I felt that'd determine what exercises I did - were good for balancing both sides of my brain, my head and my heart and the rest of the systems within my body.

I didn't really know him, tho we talked a couple of times. Belated but anyway - best wishes and commiserations to his family and friends. (He died suddenly @ 62 from diabetes complications apparently. He was in fairly good health apart from the obvious, or so they reckon, tho he wasn't treating his diabetes with anything other than diet and exercise.)



I've been on a bender for a couple of years tho ... and haven't been as into it as I used to be.

[vanlose kid]

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[ShinShinKid]

Joe, it's always good to balance the heart/ body/ mind...
Deepest regards on the loss of Montaigue; I just recently commemorated the loss of my first kendo teacher. Good teachers are hard to come by, by and by...

"Nobody knows where we go...Listen Joe, it'll drive you crazy"

[8bitagent]

I might as well give my opinion sitting here since noone wants to discuss workout routines. Ive been following this board for a couple of years now, I think since 2007 & the one big change imo is when Jeff stopped blogging. If you look at the board now, to me, it's become an uberPC progressive leftwing almost if you will revolutionary board, where apparently 'work has to be done'. Now that's fine by me, and probably a respectable stance, in fact i'm all for pc in the workplace and so forth, and if i had to situate myself politically i'd put myself on the leftside as well (who cares right?) although I'd want it to be a conservative left, so basically traditional values and so forth but with more money going to the poor and less to the rich, and nationalistic, so basically national socialism, which sounds really bad, which i sometimes think was the whole point of wwii, it's a political taste that's almost not catered to anymore, anyho my point being that an uberpc leftleaning political board is all fine and dandy but also pretty BORING! There I've said it. Which brings me to another point, the endless copypastes of artciles of what's going on all over the world. If i wanted to be informed I'd read some quality papers and/or magazines. Because the mainstreamedia have long caught up and are basically printing the exact same stories that are being copypasted here. Who has the time or enegry to read all that stuff anyway, i sometimes doubt the ones pasting have. What attracted me in Jeffs blogs was their sensationalistic approach, cheap thrills, and like a good horrorstory to make you scared, there was always a link to our own daily lives, close at home you know? And sure from there Jeff made little side excursions to old egypt or maybe wartime germany, just like the omen starts somewhere in the desert right, only to come back in suburban life. So that interests me a lot more than 20 pages on the arabian spring, to be honest. And one of the posters that has stayed truest to that vision imo is 8bitagent, who at least writes some paragraphs of his own, always goes for the catchy storyline, interlaced with some weird trivia, some quotes taken out of all context and squeezed for all they're worth. Off course he's more of a standard gore like Wes Craven to Jeff's more subtle Lynchstyle, but the focus is the same. But now Jeff has become all seriouslike, believing in the greenhouse effect, women's rights, civil disobediance and all that crap, which for him personally is probably sane but makes for less fun. Id also like to say that i consider it bullying to package personal spite in a socalled constructive effort to adress some general problems, the moreso if such an effort seems reasonable. It's sort of like a psychological trick no? Not that i'm personally a big fan of 8282, i usually skip most of what he writes, as i do with most people. I(t's funny to me people who have to use an ignorefunction for that LOL...

D'aw...thanks:) My overall response to this thread is "what the heck was that about?" 35-60 year olds bickering over silly stuff and ego's flaring.

I was drawn to RI simply because I kept reading what a journey his posts were...and boy, was that quite a rabbit hole. I still recommend the RI book for anyone that wants a truly frightening and mind blowing read...truth be told for awhile RI scared the crap out of me, mostly in the way Jeff wrote and hinted at things. In his posts right when youre wondering where its going, he goes there...and beyond.

Now here's where we have to separate things. I do acknowledge a difference between civil/LGBT/worker/oppressed/poor/etc rights, environmental studies, food/health awareness, and all these disparate things to which to be genuinely an activist/concerned citizen about...and what some might call merely "food for thought" or campfire tales. I mean yeah, it doesn't help a starving Palestinian kid to discuss
military fortean connections to 9/11 or oddball synchronicities between this or that event. But RI was definitely a red pill of food for through...the good ol Bush years. I mean lets face it, the original post hints at the notion that people were more down to discuss all manner of crazyness and possibility under the Bush rule. Now it's truly all a fog...

Obama started yet another conflict(this time in Yemen) yet the media and public are talking about a guy's penis. I mean talk about silly season. So yeah, I do miss the Lynch/Kubrickian filled para-woo political blogs and such, but that doesn't seem to be of much interest anymore.

Also I agree with Barracuda, when certain people over time bring in some truly hurtful/plain wrong fallacies to the board. And yes, I will agree I at times lay on a bit thick verbose quasi predictions.
I truly have no agenda, other than discussing food for thought. I posted a tongue and cheek thread about things you can do now to "fight the NWO", which laid out simple real world things to better one's life and other's lives. Because ultimately, ya can't save the world. Ultimately, whether people want to admit it or not, for the most part this is all armchair mouseclickity masturbation. Word games. There's no real activism on a collective whole other than bettering vocabulary and trivia. (Not to say individuals on here arent themselves engaged in really good activist/volunteer work)
Then again, maybe I'm just a bored gen x hipster at times:)