MAN, yet ANOTHER wrinkle, re: Taliban claims they were tipped-off.
First off: From what I gather, it's VERY problematic that the Chinook was shot and 'exploded in midair' from a Muhadijn-era RPG. The Koprean-war vintage Chinook is a VERY durable, heavily-armoured, dependable transport helo. Chinook pilots and flight-crews claim they are nearly-impervious to small-arms fire and only subject to grenade-rocket strikes that take out a rotor transmission or penetrate the cockpit (though wily Afghani fighters have taken some out by throwing chains down onto the spinning rotors from high-ridges). Besides, the chances of scoring an RPG hit on an unlighted craft on a dark night are very remote. Far more likley would be the Taliban are using modern guided shoulder-fired missile-weapons, probably from China or Iran. Which the US would not disclose for obvious PR reasons.
Next: It is SOP, the US would NEVER disclose a high-value Special Ops mission -- certainly not one that resulted in complete disaster. There HAS to be an alterior psyops motive.
Now that the numerous lies and deceptions about the original OBL raid have come to light, esp. with some 50+ immediate neighbors to the alleged compound claiming the US perpetrated a fraud since it was impossible for OBL to be living there with no-one living nearby knowing or suspecting a thing, a whole new angle presents itself re: this 'shoot-down' was a contrived accident to eliminate the majority of Spec ops who were on that "raid"-- possibly to eliminate the risk of family-members whistleblowing that the raid was a fake?
I think 82_28 might be onto something, more contradictory info to muddy the waters with a mixed-bag of conspiracy theories that totally confuse what's real:
82_28 quote:
"People are fucking dying left and right everywhere. Why would it be so important to broadcast that the "secretive unit" of the Navy Seals who offed osama perished as opposed to others in that same time frame and narrative of "political" importance?
I think, to make more conspiracy speculation which confuses everything that much more.
--unquote--
Following post and comments may add some more light on these and related questions, at least providing more food to expand the field of rigorous analysis.
http://letsrollforums.com/seal-team-6-t ... 876e4&Seal Team 6 will tell no tales
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31 American military personnel were killed when the Boeing Chinook helicopter in which they were flying crashed in Afghanistan.
Of the thirty-one killed, twenty were members of SEAL Team 6.
More importantly, I’ve been reliably informed (by a retired Colonel, US Army intel) that these very same operatives were the men who allegedly killed Usama bin Laden recently in Abbottabad. [NB: Seal Team 6 is an ultra-elite group of "black" operatives who exist outside military protocol, engage in operations that are at the highest level of classification, and often outside the bounds of international law.]
The official story is that the Taliban shot down the chopper. I have my doubts (as do many others far more savvy than yours truly).
[Remember Pat Tillman, the Pro Football star who forsook a megabuck contract and volunteered to go fight in Afghanistan in the heat of the post-9/11 patriotic frenzy? The official story is that Tillman was killed in a friendly-fire incident.
According to reports from several US military personnel (a few of whom I know), Pat Tillman was assassinated by his own government. Reportedly, Tillman, the quintessential poster-boy for military recruitment, was waking up to the 9/11 lie, and was beginning to get a little too loose-lipped for his own good. Word traveled up the chain fast. Three bullets to the head fired at close range killed him. Friendly-fire indeed.]
Usama’s “recent death” brings to mind photos that made international headlines during the Iraq invasion.
Remember that iconic image of cheering Iraqis helping bring down the statue of Saddam? A Marine I know told me he had a friend who was actually there, on the ground, in that town square. Evidently, there were no more than 50 Iraqis in that “cheering crowd” — and virtually all of them were paid to participate in the photo shoot. [Did you happen to notice there was only one tightly cropped shot from just one camera angle? The rest of the square was virtually empty, save for US military personnel and equipment.]
Then there was that other classic shot, of a bearded and bedraggled Saddam crawling out of a hole with his hands pathetically held up in the air in a gesture of utter defeat. Remember that one?
Again, rigged. I’m personally acquainted with a former Marine who knows one of the guys who actually helped stage that sordid affair.
Truth is, Saddam was finally cornered in the home of one of his friends, and he fought valiantly to the last bullet. He was eventually nabbed, mussed up further (he apparently didn’t look great to begin), physically forced into the hole, and dirt thrown on him for good measure to ensure a Hollywood-grade image. That photo’s singular intent was to demoralize the Iraqi populace by showing their leader cowering in abject defeat.
Usama bin Laden’s REAL Death
It is generally known by military insiders (and others who look to alternative sources for their news) that Usama bin Laden died of natural causes in 2001. He had just returned to Pakistan from Dubai following medical treatment at the American Hospital.
As early as March, 2000, Asia Week expressed concern for bin Laden's health, describing a serious medical problem that could put his life in danger because of "a kidney infection that is propagating itself to the liver and requires specialized treatment.”
Having taken off from Quetta in Pakistan, bin Laden arrived in Dubai and was transferred to the American Hospital. He was accompanied by his personal physician and a ‘faithful lieutenant’ (possibly al-Zawahiri). Usama was admitted to the well-respected urology department run by Dr. Terry Callaway, an American gallstone and infertility specialist.
Bin Laden was checked into one of the hospital’s VIP suites. While there, he received visits from many members of his family as well as prominent Saudis and Emiratis. During the hospital stay, the local CIA agent, known to many in Dubai, was seen taking the main elevator of the hospital to bin Laden's floor.
A few days later, the CIA man bragged to a few friends about having visited bin Laden. Reliable sources report that on July 15th, the day after bin Laden returned to Quetta, the CIA agent was recalled to headquarters. [NB: Contacts between the CIA and bin Laden began in 1979 when, as a representative of his family's business, he began recruiting volunteers for the Afghan resistance against the Soviet Red Army.]
The LAST ‘Death’ of bin Laden
What the world has been told about the recent “Death of Usama bin Laden” is pitiful and laughably absurd (especially the parts about no forensic tests having been performed, and the body quickly dumped into the sea. That last doctored photo was the clincher).
Truth is, bin Laden’s bin dead a long time.
The charade in Abbottabad was one massive psyop to provide soothing peace of mind for the American public subject to full-throttle media propaganda, while continuing, unabatedly, one of the greatest, deadliest, and most expensive hoaxes of all time: 9/11 and "The War on Terror."
And now, every single SEAL Team 6 member who was involved in the ‘assassination’ psyop is dead.
Incidentally, I had to smile when I saw one particularly amusing headline re Usama’s latest death, in the US publication Business Insider: “Meet The 'Seal Team 6', The Bad-Asses Who Killed Osama Bin Laden”
Well, all those hapless ‘bad asses’ are now dead.
And dead men tell no tales.
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/917/4...lking_Now.htmlhttp://beforeitsnews.com/story/919/4...nside_Job.htmlJackBauer24
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Jon Simon
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Since bin-Laden and his crew had nothing to do with 9/11 and his death was also reported in Egyptian and Pakistani newspapers in Dec. of 2001 from kidney disease, I knew that the SEAL team/bin-Laden story was ficticious.
I also knew to some degree that everyone who took part in that ficticious "kill bin-Laden mission" probably had a limited number of days left in their lives from that point on.
Anyone with any sense should know that anytime you participate in a big lie in a big way, you're going to be liquidated at some point.
Tough break, fellas.
Jon
#3
Paula
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Simon
Since bin-Laden and his crew had nothing to do with 9/11 and his death was also reported in Egyptian and Pakistani newspapers in Dec. of 2001 from kidney disease, I knew that the SEAL team/bin-Laden story was ficticious.
I also knew to some degree that everyone who took part in that ficticious "kill bin-Laden mission" probably had a limited number of days left in their lives from that point on.
Anyone with any sense should know that anytime you participate in a big lie in a big way, you're going to be liquidated at some point.
Tough break, fellas.
Jon
My ex is an Army Ranger.
We talked face to face early this morning and one thing that he brought up off topic to what was being discussed was that a S.E.A.L. friend of his told him that S.E.A.L. Team 6 has not acknowledged by that name in decades.
#4
Osmosis1
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One of the major news networks reported today that none of those killed were part of the USA-ma assasination - of course that just perpetuates the hoax that he was killed in the raid in the first place.
Osmosis1
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#5
JackBauer24
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This could have been a real crash from a Taliban rocket. Or it could have been a "friendly fire" assassination shoot-down. No way to tell. You can believe the official story or the conspiracy theory.
KABUL, Afghanistan -- The 30 American service members – most of them elite Navy SEALs – who died when their helicopter was shot down had rushed to help Army Rangers who had come under fire, two U.S. officials said Sunday.
The heavy loss shows that covert tactics carry huge risks despite the huge success of the SEAL mission that killed Osama bin Laden more than three months ago. Some of the SEALs who died Saturday were from the same unit that killed bin Laden, although none of the men took part in that mission.
It's possible they really did kill Bin Laden three months ago. We'll never know for sure.
The irony of Afghanistan is that we are now the invaders the same way the Soviets were. The Taliban are the freedom fighters. They are shooting down our helicopters the same way the Mujahedeen freedom fighters shot down Soviet copters with shoulder-fired surface to air bazookas all through the 1980s.
Osama Bin Laden was our guy back then he was our hero we sponsored him he was the brave leader of the freedom fighters.
(more comments at link)
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AND:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08/06 ... hem-quiet/Breaking News: “Bin Laden” Heroes Probably Murdered to Keep Them Quiet
1.4KShareSome Possibly Killed in Abbottabad Helicopter Crash Months Before
By Gordon Duff, Senior Editor
Today 31 NATO troops, 20 of them Navy Seals from the Osama bin Laden operation died in what is reported as a helicopter crash in Afghanistan.
The chances of this story being true is almost nil. The chances of this being a staged coverup is over 80%. We believe these people were murdered to silence them. This is why.
We have solid information on two areas:
1.Osama bin Laden died in 2001 as an active CIA employee and his body was recovered in Afghanistan and taken to “the sand box.” We were told it was frozen. We have so much verification from this, CIA, ISI, US military and top officials. I have a direct confirmation from Bin Laden’s CIA handler who I grilled mercilessly on this.
2.The Abbottabad operation involved numerous American deaths, witnessed, bodies all over, a helicopter crash. (suppressed translated TV interview below) These bodies were recovered by land vehicle from Islamabad and there was NO “successful” bin Laden operation of any kind. There was and has been a CIA safe house in Abbotabad where terror suspects were stored for years.
This gave the US several areas of severe vulnerability. Generally, Navy Seals are the best people in the world at keeping their mouths shut, these are real team players, as the term “Seal Team” belies.
We at VT were informed that the bin Laden operation was staged at this time, a theatrical farce, to cover the exit of Secretary Gates, the move by former CIA Director Leon Panetta into the DOD as Secretary of Defense and to stem any heroic claims by new CIA Director Petraeus of killing the long dead Osama bin Laden, the long frozen CIA operative.
Petraeus is a possible presidential contender and had to be denied this “gift from heaven,” a fast track to the oval office for sure.
Will We Ever Know What Happened?
Again, I remind you, I went over specific meetings on bin Laden with his handlers, getting every last detail. I have watched what has gone on, the continuing need to vilify a long dead top CIA operative to provide residual cover for the Bush administration….
The reason? Bush and his cronies are all facing charges of war crimes, not just in minor jurisdictions but heading for the ICC, putting them on the dock with Gaddafi ( a far less harmful character).
As for the timing of this incident? This we will work on. What we can easily surmise is that some of the dead have been dead since their bodies were taken away from the helicopter crash site in Abbotabad.
Who would order such a thing? We are going to have to wait but we are going to find out. However, we expected this, the timing is exactly as predicted.
HOW VT TRIED TO SAVE THEM
When the phony Abbotbad operation came out, I immediately understood what happened. I also saw much potential good from it other than the tragedy of the dead Americans from the crash. I wrote of this and see their deaths as more heroic than many recognize.
They died to erase for all time remnants of the Bush era fairly tale of badguy and evildoer Osama bin Laden. Enough good men had died chasing a ghost who lived only in phony video and audio tapes by “Bin Laden Studios” in Tel Aviv and in the continual “boogeyman” rhetoric of professional fearmongers.
Not long afterward, Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, another able public servant announced the near defeat of Al Qaeda, another Bush fairly tale.
Al Qaeda has never existed, there are no magic worldwide terror conspiracies other than those run by governments. There are several of those and I have written extensively on these. Google will help you with this if you are curious.
When VT saw why the government staged this, we saw we could accomplish two things:
1.We could simply report the truth for those willing to believe it, something we believe is the right thing to do.
2.We could also support the United States in a very real way, knowing Pakistan would weather this crisis, timed, in some ways, as a face saving move in response to the embarrassing Raymond Davis affair. I believed if the truth came out, clear enough for insiders, intel and miliary for sure, to understand that we knew and other insiders knew, there would be no reason to “clean house” afterward, to stage a coverup and get rid of any involved.
Abbotabad - How Many Died Here?
I had felt that we had provided cover for the Seal Team, we hadn’t trashed them, we acknowledged the dead at Abbotabad where no one else bothered, this is our job as fellow members of America’s military forces (current and former).
More importantly, we got out word, I certainly did enough radio and TV on this, enough that, for anyone who care, the “truth was out there.”
This is all we could do but I hoped it would stem a need for covering tracks. After all, anyone leaking real information on the operation would only seem like they had gotten it from me and I put it out there in such a manner that I allowed room to be “debunked.”
I do this to protect myself but I really was thinking of them. These are great guys, Seals are among the best people on earth. The Seal and Special Forces communities are, of the military groups in the US, some of the finest people I know.
They also help cover my “behind,” which I appreciate.
This is just too obvious, too brazen. I can’t imagine it started at the White House or even cabinet level but maybe I am deluding myself. Bin Laden was all about the election.
After the bond collapse and credit disaster yesterday, anything threatening President Obama’s reelection is seen, by some, as a threat to America’s financial survival. This debt crisis is a bigger threat to the US than a Japanese invasion in 1942 would have been.
You may not see it that way and you certainly cant get out your hunting rifle to fix it. (Don’t be a sap, kill a Jap!)
Osama in Better Days
Someone had gotten to someone. My best guess and this is a guess…an expose’ by the mainstream media, perhaps Murdoch, another guess, conjecture I admit, regarding the farce at Abbottabad, information possibly gotten through spying, bribery and blackmail, threatened to take down Obama.
With Murdoch’s good friend and “monkeyboy,” Netanyahu ‘on the ropes,” with crowds marching in Israel’s streets demanding his ouster, we have more timing to factor in.
The bin Laden killing, the third rate drama of capturing an unarmed frozen dead guy and throwing him into the ocean had probably become an albatross around certain high ranking necks.
Norway was no accident, it was a warning too. It has been containerized, just as the Murdoch espionage issue is now “poor Rupert and the pie thrower.”
These Americans are casualties in a game, one like 9/11, sacrificial pawns, like Britain’s 7/7, all lies, all theatre, all evil.
This is not for public consumption. There are those who know exactly who I am talking to.
There are many of us here who still keep our mouths shut about so many things. There are too many who don’t even care, most of us at VT do. Yes, I am aware I can be jailed, I am aware my passport can be pulled, I already see the damned surveillance.
Amateurs.
We aren’t anti-American. I am simply sick of seeing solutions that go one direction, stealing everything that isn’t nailed down. I am also sick of the fact that Washington can’t visit the “head’ without Israel’s permission.
This…today, this is too much. It is unforgivable. We are not going to allow this to stand.
We have a long standing history of “cleaning house” after operations of this kind. Usually its dead senators in plane crashes, heart attacks, car wrecks, like the Minot Barksdale or 9/11 incidents. I could name a dozen more. Does the name Wheeler meaning anything to you? Anyone remember Pat Tillman?
But this many?
