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by smiths » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:28 pm
by divideandconquer » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:35 am
Hunter » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:09 am wrote:ISIS is really becoming a HUGE problem, they are killing everyone, muslims, christians anyone who doesnt believe in their hard line radical ideology.
I have a question for you all, is it possible ISIS was created and is being used and manipulated to serve the West's agenda to further villify Islam or do you think it is the real deal?
ALL of my close muslim friends, of which I have many, believe they are not legit and are likely being manipulated and used and probably created by intell agencies. They do not agree with anything they are doing and think this Caliph dude is a nut and probably on the payroll.
Hell even Iran is siding with us against them.
by justdrew » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:52 am
smiths » 11 Aug 2014 16:28 wrote:thats what i keep shouting at the TV news, "where the fuck is the connection to the Saudi's and Qatar"
thats why we got this 'story' a couple of months back
ISIS just stole $425 million, Iraqi governor says, and became the ‘world’s richest terrorist group’
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn ... ist-group/
otherwise people might start asking tricky questions like, Who's funding this army that just emerged and swept across parts of Iraq and Syria?
by 8bitagent » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:36 am
by 8bitagent » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:14 am
by Sounder » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:41 am
and yes, to be clear, I assign primary agency in the actions of ISIS to the persons making up the troops of ISIS, not to some unprovable conspiracy.
West's Feigned Concern Vs. Genuine Drive to Divide and Destroy
Now, as the US feigns concern for religious minorities being slaughtered in front of the eyes of the world, it should be remembered that this conflict was engineered, set in motion, and perpetuated intentionally by the West for at least the last 7 years. The West knew the sectarian genocide now unfolding in Syria, Iraq, and soon in Lebanon was the inevitable result of their efforts to raise this regional mercenary force.
Western concern for religious minorities and the minimal provisions being made to "assist" them, is to maintain an increasingly tenuous plausible deniability. The feigned dithering of the West in the face of their growing mercenary force is to allow it to overrun the Iraqi government if possible, create more havoc within Syria, and spread the chaos to Lebanon.....
.....ISIS is a standing army that requires state sponsorship - billions in cash, gear, weapons, and logistical, intelligence, and political support. While the West claims it has been handing over hundreds of millions to "moderates" in Syria, it has offered no plausible explanation as to who is providing ISIS and other Al Qaeda affiliates with even more resources enabling the extremists to displace these "moderates." There is no other explanation besides the fact that there were never any moderates to begin with and that the US, UK, France, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and even Israel, have from the beginning, intentionally created a mercenary army composed of Al Qaeda extremists of unprecedented dimensions and capabilities.
The direct war with Iran the West has for so long attempted to sell the world is now clearly being replaced with an immense proxy war. It will feign ignorance to the genesis of ISIS and the fact that no other explanation beyond state-sponsorship exists to explain its continued success on the battlefield. Token airdrops and even "airstrikes" against ISIS positions will admittedly do nothing to disrupt ISIS' ongoing campaigns across the region.
by Searcher08 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:57 am
by bks » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:05 am
The direct war with Iran the West has for so long attempted to sell the world is now clearly being replaced with an immense proxy war. It will feign ignorance to the genesis of ISIS and the fact that no other explanation beyond state-sponsorship exists to explain its continued success on the battlefield.
Beginning in 2011 - and actually even as early as 2007 - the United States has been arming, funding, and supporting the Muslim Brotherhood and a myriad of armed terrorist organizations to overthrow the government of Syria, fight Hezbollah in Lebanon, and undermine the power and influence of Iran, which of course includes any other government or group in the MENA region friendly toward Tehran.
Image: ISIS corridors begin in Turkey and end in Baghdad.
Billions in cash have been funneled into the hands of terrorist groups including Al Nusra, Al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), and what is now being called "Islamic State in Iraq and Syria" or ISIS. One can see clearly by any map of ISIS held territory that it butts up directly against Turkey's borders with defined corridors ISIS uses to invade southward - this is because it is precisely from NATO territory this terrorist scourge originated.
by Luther Blissett » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:27 pm
8bitagent » Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:46 pm wrote:Hunter » Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:32 am wrote:I read Hezbollah is even against them which I guess makes sense, and thus Iran, since Hezbollah and Iran are Shiites and those are some of the people the Sunni ISIS are targeting.
Some are saying ISIS will soon control Gaza and throw Hamas out because Hamas is not brutal enough, if that happens we can be sure Gaza will no longer exist, Israel will level the entire region in short order.
I do not doubt that such a group as ISIS could come about organically but I am also skeptical insofar as they are really serving a nice purpose and giving good reason for the west, namely Israel and the US to further justify the war on Islam. So who knows? What makes me skeptical is that you now have a lot of people who were against any sort of war over there now calling and even demanding the US go in and totally wipe these folks out. I dont like ISIS, I hate war, if they are legit they need to be stopped but who the fuck knows anymore what is real and what isnt. People are dying, that is real, aside from that I dont know.
Also from what I understand this is basically the same group that we ARMED in Libya and early on in Syria, so we did in some way or another, create and help ISIS become what they are today.
Even as a long time anti war/"conspiracist" who went to protest rallies against US involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, and as someone who never ceases to be disgusted at the anti Arab/anti Muslim propaganda from Europe and America.....I will say that ISIS absolutely does represent pure evil. But I feel it's made to be that way. I mean this is a group we're hearing could bring the US and Iran together militarily. A group al Qaeda is now horrified by and considers too extreme. Their existence and swift takeover of half of Syria and most of Iraq coupled with the over the top social media and brutality of ISIS is extremely unique and very "of the time".
So yeah, I'm in a position where I do see images of tens of thousands of beautiful vibrant people in Iraq of Yazidi/Christian/Shiite and even Sunni faiths under ethnic cleansing and it's heartbreaking.
However, while I find myself agreeing with even the worst of opposite idealogues on the evil of ISIS....isnt it curious how we have now the steroid mutant face of all the right wing fears of a Sharia law caliphate obsessed super jijadi group? This is a Lovecraftian monster that even the tried and true secret/not so secret Arab elite backers of jihadis and al Qaeda like groups are worried about. But I'm thinking of both the possible secret globalist (intentional) frankensteining and desire for ISIS to exist and an esoteric underpinning. They call themselves "The Islamic State" now, the White House calls them ISIL, but for all intents of purposes the media and public will refer to them as ISIS. And ISIS does have a forebodding scary sound to it. Like a hydra. Many GOP are calling them "more frightening than al Qaeda ever was".
by 8bitagent » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:06 pm
Searcher08 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:57 am wrote:I have a big thing for Mongol history and wanted to share some very disturbing parallels between the unifying effect of ISIS and the strategies used by Temujin to unite the Mongols. These are the parallels I have seen so far.
1 Tribes were deeply divided, warring, caught in wasteful inter-generational resource stealing and revenge dramas and controlled by outside forces.
2 He was imprisoned.
3 He spent years thinking through his plans.
4 He started small and built alliances.
5 People who joined him were treated well, with spoils shared evenly.
6 He was taken under the wing of a bigger and corrupt leader who grew afraid of his power and later was defeated by him.
7 Started in their own population by setting a goal of the extermination of a group.
8 They were consistently underestimated by their enemies.
9 They created terror, drove whole populations (human waves) before them to new towns
10 Offered terror-inducing time-lined ultimatums involving surrender or extermination
11 Practiced mass executions which enemies witnessed before being set free - to tell others of what they saw.
12 Many battles were won psychologically with whole much larger modern armies melting away.
13 Operated with a speed and through territories thought impossible / secure
14 Used the expertise and technology from those captured was incorporated and used as soon as possible - (eg Arab siege engineers were used to demolish the walls of huge Chinese cities.)
15 Opponents thought they could contain them via 'counter-intelligence' - it failed.
16 Attracted the best talent, utilised local intelligence and operated as de-centralised as possible
17 Did not play according to traditional rules of engagement - (eg they staged fake retreats; their bows arrows fired farther than the Chinese - so the Chinese could not keep out of range and were just mown down by a hail or arrows till they broke and fled in all directions.)
If my assumption about ISIS being similar to the Mongols strategy (either through synchronicity of through ISIS studying Genghiz Khan), then I predict that they will rapidly consolidate in Iraq and gain access to aircraft and missiles. Their aim is to exterminate / convert the Shia first and thus are planning on heading to Iran, which I think will happen by their attacking the Shia in Baghdad first, which will mean the Revolutionary Guards getting involved at the minimum. ISIS are a Saudi-Qatari proxy to turn Iran into a graveyard but who will turn on their funders when they have become more self-reliant.
Huge dangers to the West, particularly if Hamas are transformed into an ISIS.
by cptmarginal » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:13 pm
smiths » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:28 pm wrote:thats what i keep shouting at the TV news, "where the fuck is the connection to the Saudi's and Qatar"
thats why we got this 'story' a couple of months back
ISIS just stole $425 million, Iraqi governor says, and became the ‘world’s richest terrorist group’
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn ... ist-group/
otherwise people might start asking tricky questions like, Who's funding this army that just emerged and swept across parts of Iraq and Syria?
by 8bitagent » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:57 am
ISIS: a monster made by the moralists of the West
The West weeps over the Yazidi people, yet is responsible for their suffering.
by smiths » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:50 pm
Anti-Israel activists are the attack dogs of a new Western imperialism
There is nothing remotely progressive in today’s myopic, disproportionate Western fury with Israel. On the contrary, it is a profoundly ugly phenomenon, masquerading as a peace movement but actually devoting its energies to drumming up hatred, sanctions and possibly even intervention against a state that it has found guilty in the kangaroo court of liberal opinion of being a ‘rogue’.
... But it’s particularly concerning to see Israel branded a ‘rogue state’. For whether you like it or not, Israel is intimately bound up with the Jewish people. Recent outbursts of anti-Semitism in Europe suggest it could be a short step indeed from labelling Israel a rogue state to looking upon the Jews themselves as rogues.
Your pity for Palestinians is making things worse in Gaza
"But there is something else, too, another side to this sordid story, another aspect to these allegations about Hamas’s complicity in, or lack of care about, the rising death toll in Gaza. And that is the question of what urge, what audience, Hamas is allegedly trying to satisfy with its imagery of dead Palestinians. The answer is us, individuals in the West who cannot get enough of horror stories of Palestinian victimhood, campaigners and journalists over here who now barter in gory images of killed Palestinians and who promote and share such images both to demonstrate their own emotional intelligence and to put pressure on international institutions to rein in Israel and recognise Palestinian statehood."
Our need for paedos: why society obsesses over child abuse
"Having well and truly trawled the world of Seventies-era celebrity for evidence of paedophilic behaviour, now the paedo-hunters are scouring the annals of parliamentary memos and rumours for signs that child-abusing beasts lurked here, too, at the very heart of the establishment. The Sunday papers were packed with whispers, all unsubstantiated, about ‘VIP paedophiles’, about ‘child sex rings’ made up of super-powerful abusers, with tub-thumping editorials demanding that these monstrous MPs who allegedly did wicked things in the Seventies and Eighties be found and exposed."
Same-sex marriage: coercion dolled up as civil rights
"It’s four weeks since Javascript inventor Brendan Eich was hounded out of his job at Mozilla by a virtual mob of intolerant tweeters and campaigners. His crime? Failing to genuflect at the altar of gay marriage, which is now the closest thing our otherwise godless, belief-lite, morally vacuous societies have to a sacred value. For refusing to bow down before this new sainted institution, and for having the temerity to donate money to a campaign group opposed to it, Eich was found guilty by the mob of sacrilege and was hounded out of public life as a modern-day heretic."
Brendan O’Neill meets the Voltaire-inspired attorney general of Australia.
"Well today, Australia contains what must surely count as the most exotic, rarely sighted creature of the twenty-first century: a politician who believes in freedom of speech. Extinct in Europe, seriously endangered in America, this most hunted of the modern era’s political beasts still survives Down Under, and it goes by the name of George Brandis.
And since taking office with the election of Abbott in 2013, Brandis has doggedly, and often controversially, devoted himself to reforming the section of the Oz Racial Discrimination Act that forbids people from ‘offending, insulting or humiliating’ a person or group on the basis of their racial or ethnic origins. Why has he done this? Why is he so determined to rip up restrictions on insulting ethnic minorities? Why has he allowed himself to be branded by many on the Australian left as a ‘friend of bigots’ who is using his power to help ‘unleash Australia’s racists’?
‘Because’, he says, ‘if you are going to defend freedom of speech, you have to defend the right of people to say things you would devote your political life to opposing. Your good faith is tested by whether or not you would defend the right to free speech of people with whom you profoundly disagree. That’s the test.’"
The LM Network and the idea of free speech
In spite of its name, the RCP was neither communist nor revolutionary. When the RCP was wound up in the late 1990’s, it splintered into a variety of smaller groups (they haven’t lost their penchant for spawning front groups): the Institute of Ideas (IoI), Sense About Science, The Manifesto Club and Spiked Online to name a few. While these groups may appear to be separate, they form the LM network (named after the magazine of the same name). The entire existence of the RCP and its successor groups has been to insert its ideas into public conversations thereby influencing society and culture.
... You may have noticed that I used the word “supporters” rather than ‘members’ when I refer to people associated with the RCP. This is because the RCP was a rather tight-knit group whose core membership probably numbered around 12; these 12 people were all located at the Universities of Kent and Sussex and were led by Hungarian born sociologist Frank Furedi (who called himself Frank Richards). To be a member one had to be initiated into the small but select group of insiders, but this never really happened and the core membership remained the same while the numbers of supporters fluctuated.
... It is instructive that the LM Network has been funded by a variety of private interests. For instance both Spiked and the IoI have been funded by the pharmaceutical giant, Pfizer (makers of Viagra). Pfizer also funds the Cato Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute and the Netherlands-based Edmund Burke Foundation. Therefore the work of the LM network adheres to a certain agenda, namely those of corporate interests. Other funders of LM have included BT, Monsanto and Exxon.
https://buddyhell.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... ee-speech/
There is one group to which Tony Abbott has kept his promises since becoming prime minister: the Institute of Public Affairs.
We are talking about the members and generous benefactors of the Institute of Public Affairs, Australia’s – and, it claims, the world’s – oldest right-wing think tank.
So old is the IPA that when his father helped establish it, Rupert Murdoch was but a callow youth of 12. Gina Rinehart, another of its most prominent members, was not then even a gleam in the eye of Lang Hancock. But age has not wearied it. The IPA has never been more powerful than it is right now.
Before he won the prime ministership, in April last year, at a dinner celebrating the IPA’s 70th anniversary, Abbott took the opportunity to commit to a whole raft of big promises, with Rinehart, Murdoch and Cardinal George Pell as his witnesses.
He noted the IPA had given him “a great deal of advice” on the policy front, and, offering “a big ‘yes’”, promised them he would act on it.
“I want to assure you,” he said, “that the Coalition will indeed repeal the carbon tax, abolish the department of climate change, abolish the Clean Energy Fund. We will repeal Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act, at least in its current form. We will abolish new health and environmental bureaucracies. We will deliver $1 billion in red-tape savings every year. We will develop northern Australia. We will repeal the mining tax. We will create a one-stop shop for environmental approvals. We will privatise Medibank Private. We will trim the public service and we will stop throwing good money after bad on the NBN.”
The IPA and the Liberal Party share DNA. The institute came first, formed in 1943 by a group of Melbourne businessmen concerned by the decline of the Liberals’ predecessor, the United Australia Party, and by the increased role of government during World War II. It was in turn one of the groups that helped found the Liberal Party. Initially, it served as a vehicle for fundraising as much as for policy formulation.
Its core concerns were those of big business: it was for smaller government and less regulation, and against labour unions and the Labor Party. In the 1980s and early ’90s, particularly under the leadership of John Hyde, the prototypical Liberal “dry”, it adopted more rationalist economics, and pushed privatisation, deregulation and internationalisation of the economy.
Notably, the institute was a strident supporter of those who would deny the ugly reality of Australia’s treatment of Aboriginals. It fostered the likes of revisionist historian Keith Windschuttle.
The current IPA executive director, John Roskam, will not talk about the institute’s donors, and certainly not ex-donors. Back in 2003, though, Roskam’s predecessor Mike Nahan was more forthcoming, revealing the names of some big corporate donors: Caltex, Esso, Philip Morris and British American Tobacco. He admitted the institute had “lost” Rio Tinto because the company wanted to maintain good relations with the Aboriginal community.
http://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news ... 1401458400
by smiths » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:59 pm
by 8bitagent » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:07 pm
The hijackers were instruments of evil who died in vain. Behind them is a cult of evil that seeks to harm the innocent and thrives on human suffering. Theirs is the worst kind of cruelty, the cruelty that is fed, not weakened, by tears. Theirs is the worst kind of violence, pure malice while daring to claim the authority of God. We cannot fully understand the designs and power of evil; it is enough to know that evil, like a goodness, exists. And in the terrorists evil has found a willing servant." The cruelty that is "fed, not weakened, by tears
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