What if Putin is Telling the Truth?

[Jerky]

Are you freaking kidding, Sounder? "Old chestnut"? I take it you don't think there was anything fishy about those apartment bombings? What's your opinion on the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 I wonder?

Or, back in Russia now, do you think all the talk about disappeared and murdered journalists and political opposition figures is also a "chestnut"? The absolute eradication of independent (forget about dissident!) media outlets there? Or Putin's decision to essentially declare himself dictator for life? That's all copacetic with you, too, I suppose?

J

[Sounder]

Ha, you would try to shame me into accepting the exceptionalist position that it is 'good' and necessary to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries. Nice try, but my concerns lie more along the lines of the shortcomings in the internal affairs of my own country not Russia.

Clearly it is the US and allies that contain the greater proportion of warmongers.

That's all copacetic with you, too, I suppose?

That is such a convenient thing to suppose, you must be a philosopher.

[DrEvil]

^^Notice that Jerky never said we should interfere? That's just a poor straw man to detract from your own position.
And you completely avoided the rest of his post with another one of your trademark evasive comments.

Fact of the matter is that you're defending a man who is responsible for bombing several apartment buildings full of his own people, disappearing, murdering or arresting journalists and political opponents, annexing parts of a neighboring country, bombing the shit out of civilians in Chechnya and Syria, financially supporting far right movements all over Europe (you know, meddling in other countries), suppressing the rights of LGBT people and setting himself up as a lifetime ruler. That's one heck of nice guy.

[Morty]

According to the "relatively good Putin" reading of history, Putin came to power as pretty much a stooge to replace stooge Yeltsin. But then slowly, quietly, started acting independently. He was (only) a colonel in the FSB, and wasn't in the FSB at the time of the bombings (he was prime minister at the time, and soon to become president...if I've got that right).

So according to this take, y'all are blaming the new stooge for being responsible for the false flag apartment bombings.

But at any rate, it's a good time to revisit the OP of this thread, which accuses the CIA and George H W Bush of being behind the decade long Islamic terror campaign in Chechnya which preceded the apartment bombings.

[stillrobertpaulsen]

According to the "relatively good Putin" reading of history, Putin came to power as pretty much a stooge to replace stooge Yeltsin. But then slowly, quietly, started acting independently. He was (only) a colonel in the FSB, and wasn't in the FSB at the time of the bombings (he was prime minister at the time, and soon to become president...if I've got that right).

No, you don't have that right. Far from being "(only) a colonel in the FSB", Putin was the Director of FSB from July 1998 – August 1999. A simple Wikipedia search would tell you that.

So according to this take, y'all are blaming the new stooge for being responsible for the false flag apartment bombings.

And what is your take? What responsibility do you think Putin has for the bombings?

[Morty]

And what is your take? What responsibility do you think Putin has for the bombings?

Anywhere from mastermind, to entirely complicit, to entirely innocent of all wrong-doing but embarrassingly implicated given the strong false flag evidence. He obviously didn't do the bombings himself, and he didn't really need to know that the bombings were false flag, in fact it would likely be better for him and the plotters if he didn't know the bombings weren't done by Chechen terrorists (so why would they let him know of the false flag plan if he didn't need to know?)

But even if he was the mastermind, what has he done since then that is so monstrous that it should distract us from addressing the crimes of the Anglosphere over the same period? He's no Hitler or Stalin or George W Bush, after all.

[stillrobertpaulsen]

But even if he was the mastermind, what has he done since then that is so monstrous that it should distract us from addressing the crimes of the Anglosphere over the same period?

Kind of a straw man argument as it pertains to RI. Hell, I personally just bumped up The Criminal N.S.A. because of a timely story. RI can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time.

[seemslikeadream]

what is Putin worth?

200 billion?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcy8uLjRHPM

[Elvis]

what is Putin worth?

No one has been able to answer that question, no one proved he has even one billion, but a lot of absurd numbers have been thrown out into the memestream. We were supposed to believe th figure "$70 billion," but with inflation and all...I expect we'll soon here that Putin has $100 trillion stashed away in a volcano.

Also, interesting that while he was a lowly civil servant and bribery was an established practice, Putin wouldn't take bribes—but now that he's got a big presidential salary, he suddenly needs to take bribes and kickbacks?

[American Dream]

"A pox on all their houses" is a legitimate socialist response.