The Force of Modifying Behavior

[Karmamatterz]

You frame it the way you do to liberate yourself from meaningful action. You would rather rant and rail, as you say.

Mini has it right, the majority of people are already inundated with media. Thousands of times per day they are bombarded. What's more interesting? The latest cute kitten on Facebook, the invite to a party this weekend.....or a screed some angry person posted? Hint, it's not the rant about global warming. Most people immediately got turned off. The messaging is absolutely critical.

Curious, how many "paid shills" do you encounter IRL on a daily basis? If you're running into these people all the time you must have a unique job that brings you into contact. Arguing back and forth online probably isn't very effective. Normal conversations over a beer, dinner or coffee are 100x more effective than any anonymous message board.

You still don't get it. Doomsday is around the corner for us, and already here for millions more. I can't help it if you refuse to take in what the scientists are actually saying, but here's a quick summary: If we don't resort to drastic action right now we're all fucked.

Food shortages, droughts, drowning cities, mass migrations, dwindling water resources and wars

We've already got a lot of that. Why are you worried about rich people who live in coastal areas? Aren't those rich fucks part of the problem? Notice the color isn't quite green. What is the reaction the general public has when they see this IRL?


Most people laugh or shake their head thinking the person is a loon. Shouting we're all doomed is very nihilistic and a rather miserable way to live.

[Elvis]

This afternoon I'm seeing my good friend who has devoted countless hours working with the Climate Science Legal Defense Fund to defeat assholes like David Schnare and Chris Horner (just for example) and groups like the American Tradition Institute, now called the "Energy and Environment Legal Institute" (I get angry just typing that name). They are all foul scum.


Here's an outline of the sort of shitty stuff they do:

Climate scientists are under attack from frivolous lawsuits



Anyway, I'll get my friend's take on some the conversation here. He would have some choice words, if I could get him to post here, but he's too busy taking real individual action. An irony is that he can afford to this because oil. And I don't personally know anyone working harder to end the use of oil for fuel.

[DrEvil]

karmamatterz wrote:

Most people laugh or shake their head thinking the person is a loon. Shouting we're all doomed is very nihilistic and a rather miserable way to live.

How about shouting "We're Doomed!" while handing out piles of evidence to back it up? That's what's happening, and people are just throwing the evidence in the trash and pretending it's not real. The scientists have been trying the polite version for decades and no one listened, so now we have Greta Thunberg and Extinction Rebellion. You sound like the politicians telling the kids they shouldn't skip school but sit down and discuss it politely with the people who have known about it and done fuck all for years on end.

The only reason they're even paying lip service now is because all those kids can vote in a few years.

[minime]

karmamatterz wrote:

Most people laugh or shake their head thinking the person is a loon. Shouting we're all doomed is very nihilistic and a rather miserable way to live.

How about shouting "We're Doomed!" while handing out piles of evidence to back it up? That's what's happening, and people are just throwing the evidence in the trash and pretending it's not real. The scientists have been trying the polite version for decades and no one listened, so now we have Greta Thunberg and Extinction Rebellion. You sound like the politicians telling the kids they shouldn't skip school but sit down and discuss it politely with the people who have known about it and done fuck all for years on end.

The only reason they're even paying lip service now is because all those kids can vote in a few years.

Aha! The kids... There you go. The perfect target for you. Educate them. Are they still called millennials?

[Elvis]

So my friend says, in so many words, that if people won't do for themselves the simple and profitable act of switching from a commercial bank to a credit union, they will never do the hard things to head off their own extinction. He says this is especially true in the present melee of know-nothing intransigence.

On the other hand, there's always hope we can believe in for change we can hope for. That is, if a Green New Deal gets enough traction, we might at least save ourselves.

[minime]

So my friend says, in so many words, that if people won't do for themselves the simple and profitable act of switching from a commercial bank to a credit union, they will never do the hard things to head off their own extinction. He says this is especially true in the present melee of know-nothing intransigence.

On the other hand, there's always hope we can believe in for change we can hope for. That is, if a Green New Deal gets enough traction, we might at least save ourselves.

My guess is that if you tell someone they need to change banks (to an S&L) to stop global warming (and that's how they will hear it), they will look at you as if you're insane. Maybe 300 million someones in the U.S. alone. Rendering future conversation impossible.

I believe there's always hope we can believe in for change we can hope for.

[DrEvil]

So my friend says, in so many words, that if people won't do for themselves the simple and profitable act of switching from a commercial bank to a credit union, they will never do the hard things to head off their own extinction. He says this is especially true in the present melee of know-nothing intransigence.

On the other hand, there's always hope we can believe in for change we can hope for. That is, if a Green New Deal gets enough traction, we might at least save ourselves.

Exactly. Sitting around and talking about it politely (because God forbid we offend someone!) is not going to do shit. We need a massive war-time mobilization style effort to mitigate the worst of the damage and adapt to what we can't fix. That means carbon pricing and an immediate halt to all new fossil fuel projects, subsidies for EVs, massive rollout of solar and wind, a huge reduction in meat consumption, effective power storage solutions, subsidies to make housing as power efficient as possible, etc., and it has to be world-wide.

Problem is, too many people are terrified of change (even when that change is for the better long term) and are going full tilt coming up with excuses for why we can't do it, and the vested interests have bought and paid the people in position to make it possible.

[Karmamatterz]

carbon pricing

Why play word games? It's called taxes. Enough of the bs lingo.

Oh, so now you want to tell us what we can eat? Because you deem it important we're supposed to reduce or quit altogether eating meat?

Is it okay for me to flush the toilet twice if I took a big dump?
What type of meat is acceptable to you for us to eat?
How long of a shower am I allowed to take?
Are baths allowed?
Should I stop burning firewood in the winter?
Will there be beatings, incarceration, education camps, flogging or any kind of fun punishments for people who disobey?

You're quite the bossy guy who wants to tell us how to live.

Also consider not everyone can afford an electric car. Who is going to pay for all these new cars? The car fairy? No meat eh? Don't even, I mean really, suggest you know what my or anybody else's diet should consist of. Just don't even go there dude, you're already way over in the deep end.

There is a lot of talk about installing giant wind turbines in Lake Erie nearby where I live. I'm all for it. But the thing is, a lot of birds supposedly get chopped up by them. This area is well known for birders as a special place to come and watch massive bird migrations. These birding folk are super opposed to the wind turbines. Would it be okay if X number of birds got hacked up each year? I'm okay with birds getting chopped up, but what about those who care more about the environment who want critters to live long and prosper?

I wish solar was a good option here, but we have a lot of cloudy days. We do have some solar deployments but they are tiny. I've imagined many times would it would be like if every house and building had solar panels on their roof.

Where will the electricity get generated to power the e-cars? If the timing is not done right an increase in fossil fuel use will be required.

[minime]

So my friend says, in so many words, that if people won't do for themselves the simple and profitable act of switching from a commercial bank to a credit union, they will never do the hard things to head off their own extinction. He says this is especially true in the present melee of know-nothing intransigence.

On the other hand, there's always hope we can believe in for change we can hope for. That is, if a Green New Deal gets enough traction, we might at least save ourselves.

Exactly. Sitting around and talking about it politely (because God forbid we offend someone!) is not going to do shit. We need a massive war-time mobilization style effort to mitigate the worst of the damage and adapt to what we can't fix. That means carbon pricing and an immediate halt to all new fossil fuel projects, subsidies for EVs, massive rollout of solar and wind, a huge reduction in meat consumption, effective power storage solutions, subsidies to make housing as power efficient as possible, etc., and it has to be world-wide.

Problem is, too many people are terrified of change (even when that change is for the better long term) and are going full tilt coming up with excuses for why we can't do it, and the vested interests have bought and paid the people in position to make it possible.

Well, do what thou wilt, Evil.

I'll try to take on your two, or pass them on to someone else. In any case, we'll absorb them, and you keep on doing whatever it is that you're doing. Whatever that is.

[82_28]

I think everyone that are still engaged in this thread are talking over one another. When I think of why I even started it it was just a more guttural response to those around me and others. I had to have an argument today with someone who screwed something up but I met it with sarcasm and then he realized his error which I was telling him. I just left it with "no hard feelings". He didn't say shit in response and I left.

When I got back home I called my "bosses" to tell them what a dick he was and was screwing everything up. So I tried to help him at the moment. No can do. I wasn't trying to "modify" his behavior but I went the kind circuitous route of telling him to fuck off and that yeah, you fucked up. People look right through others when others do not. But I "modified" because I wanted to forewarn them about a possibly angry client.

[Karmamatterz]

You’re right. I got carried away. Stepping away as my own rhetoric is getting carried away.

[Elvis]

if you tell someone they need to change banks (to an S&L) to stop global warming (and that's how they will hear it), they will look at you as if you're insane.

I was not associating changing to credit unions with stopping global warming. It was just an example he gave of people not acting in their best interests.

[Elvis]

Is it okay for me to flush the toilet twice if I took a big dump?
What type of meat is acceptable to you for us to eat?
How long of a shower am I allowed to take?
Are baths allowed?
Should I stop burning firewood in the winter?
Will there be beatings, incarceration, education camps, flogging or any kind of fun punishments for people who disobey?

You're quite the bossy guy who wants to tell us how to live.

This is so silly. "Are baths allowed?"

You seem to be saying, in your hyperbolic way, that it's okey-dokie for people to mass consume as much and however they like—as some 'God-given American right'—without regard to the environment and the health and well-being of anyone.

You got one word right: "education."

[minime]

if you tell someone they need to change banks (to an S&L) to stop global warming (and that's how they will hear it), they will look at you as if you're insane.

I was not associating changing to credit unions with stopping global warming. It was just an example he gave of people not acting in their best interests.

My best interest is banking at a bank rather than a savings and loan--if I had a choice between those two only.

Back to you, Elvis.

[Elvis]

My best interest is banking at a bank rather than a savings and loan--if I had a choice between those two only.

That depends, I suppose, on where you live and what you mean by "savings and loan." A mutual savings bank has some qualities of a user-owned credit union. I've heard that S&Ls are more vulnerable and fail more often than commercial banks. But there's always the FDIC.




Anyway, with this efficient "vape" device, I'm more addicted to nicotine than ever. How do I get off the stuff?