The 2012 "Election" thread

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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:40 pm

DrVolin wrote:
bks wrote:The well-named Dick Morris is full of his usual shit. A Romney landslide would almost certainly mean widespread election fraud occurred. His poll numbers are completely made up, best I can tell.


Exactly. I don't expect a landslide, but at this point I expect a Romney win. Not widespread fraud, but very targeted fraud as smalll as possible to ensure the outcome.


I found Lucas selling off everything to Disney for essentially a fire sale price to be more of a shock than if Mittler Zombey "wins" next Tuesday.

I remember the state vote map on the tv news channels eight years ago. Was it me or did the states that went for Kerry seemed to mostly be coastal areas?
It seems to me that, and it's not really being talked about online, that most the states Sandy affected would be ones to vote for Kerry. I dont really buy HAARP theories at all, but
the universe as a whole sure has a strange way about it.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:43 pm

barracuda wrote:
American Dream wrote:4 year old is tired of hearing about Bronco Bama, Mitt Rominey, and the elections


Another whiney non-voter opting out of the election process. Doesn't she know this is just a vote for Romney?

DrVolin wrote:I don't expect a landslide, but at this point I expect a Romney win. Not widespread fraud, but very targeted fraud as smalll as possible to ensure the outcome.


The media has maintained the illusion of a close race for a reason.



It'll be awesome(not!) to be called every dirty name in the book next Wednesday by fellow so called-liberals, as if our not voting for Obama will be solely to blame. Shit happened to me when people found out I
voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. Seriously, if Romney wins you'll have both the Obamabots and Lesser-of-two-evilers going into total frothing at the mouth attack mode at left leaning people who decided they couldn't
in good conscience vote for Dronebama.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby barracuda » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:42 pm

Yes, yes, you are correct. I will indeed lay the blame directly upon the doorstep of your perfidious conscience and the consciences of all those of you whose usernames shall crawl in infamy upon the wasteland of the new and fetid Republican dominion for the venal sin of doing what you thought you ought. A pox on your progeny and all their BFF's til judgement day cometh should the moon-face of Willard rise above this nation 'pon the morning of the 7th.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby ninakat » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:14 am

8bitagent wrote:It'll be awesome(not!) to be called every dirty name in the book next Wednesday by fellow so called-liberals, as if our not voting for Obama will be solely to blame. Shit happened to me when people found out I
voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. Seriously, if Romney wins you'll have both the Obamabots and Lesser-of-two-evilers going into total frothing at the mouth attack mode at left leaning people who decided they couldn't
in good conscience vote for Dronebama.


Prolly, but it's unlikely Dronebama won't continue his brand of carnage. You voted for Nader in 2000? Seriously? Wow, man, way ahead of the curve. If only I had been that enlightened back then. :praybow
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:36 am

ninakat wrote:
8bitagent wrote:It'll be awesome(not!) to be called every dirty name in the book next Wednesday by fellow so called-liberals, as if our not voting for Obama will be solely to blame. Shit happened to me when people found out I
voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. Seriously, if Romney wins you'll have both the Obamabots and Lesser-of-two-evilers going into total frothing at the mouth attack mode at left leaning people who decided they couldn't
in good conscience vote for Dronebama.


Prolly, but it's unlikely Dronebama won't continue his brand of carnage. You voted for Nader in 2000? Seriously? Wow, man, way ahead of the curve. If only I had been that enlightened back then. :praybow


People might forget, but the summer of OTPOR and Playstation brought about Rage Against the Machine and their giant protest...oh, not at the RNC. But at the DNC. The anti WTO crowd, anarchists, etc was
quite booming and I remember seeing this image a lot by the fall of 2000:
Image

Yet, like a lot of liberals by September 12th 2001, this is what happened:


BIG hats off to Michael Rupert for putting together the first sound 9/11 truth presentation video just a couple months after, even warning of conspiracy disinfo to add noise.
I haven't posted yet in the "what made you awake" thread, and while I was looking up "conspiracy" stuff online way back in 1996, it wasn't really til 2004 I was starting to wake from the post 9/11 coma. By 2004 I was so mad at Bush, I voted for Kerry. Yet was back to the third party thang' by 2008, proudly voting for Cynthia Mckinney.

Btw with Kerry, he helped expose the CIA drug cartel shenanigans in 1988. I can't recall anything Obama has done to expose the powers that be.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:00 am

I thought this was interesting. For those who are not fans of Obama but can't allow a Romney win(and I more than can understand this) Cannonfire blog
has this to say...and it does make sense for whoever wins

As readers know, I think Mitt Romney is sufficiently vile to warrant support for Barack Obama in this election. But the day after that election, we should try to implement the key recommendation of this piece -- an independent movement designed to pressure the Democratic party to become, once again, a true alternative.

There's a difference, of course, between a movement and a third party. In American history, movements create change; third parties do not. The civil rights movement did a lot a good; the Peace and Freedom Party, not so much.

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/

I don't like seeing liberals fight amongst eachother, but instead I feel this is ultimately something powerful. As someone else said, one word: Wisconsin 2011.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby ninakat » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:21 am

8bitagent wrote:BIG hats off to Michael Rupert for putting together the first sound 9/11 truth presentation video just a couple months after, even warning of conspiracy disinfo to add noise.
I haven't posted yet in the "what made you awake" thread, and while I was looking up "conspiracy" stuff online way back in 1996, it wasn't really til 2004 I was starting to wake from the post 9/11 coma. By 2004 I was so mad at Bush, I voted for Kerry. Yet was back to the third party thang' by 2008, proudly voting for Cynthia Mckinney.


Nice -- very much my evolution as well (bold faced = same for me). I knew you were one of the good guys :yay .

Although we may diverge this year -- no biggy -- I'm so fucking confused, I still haven't made a final decision. It just won't be for either Obama or Romney. It'll be Stein or I might stay home. Hedges blames the people who stay home, but I don't quite see the world the way he does, plus I don't have as much of an investment in this life -- he's got a son. That almost forces him to become hopeful, perhaps. I'm not hopeful, because the numbers aren't adding up well for humankind now. We can, though, individually and collectively (small groups), start doing the right thing and withdrawing from consumerism, another wasteful part of living in their world. Babylon Is The Vampire. We can do other things to at least divert more of own individual energies away from the machine. We need to disconnect, en masse, in order to take back control. And then, it's going to have to be real austerity mixed with social safety nets (austere socialism, anyone?) if humans will survive. I don't see the remotest chance of that, even though I'm "being the change" an awful lot and creating a smidgeon of hope at home (it's what keeps me going). None of my colleagues in various past or present circles are changing a damned thing about how they live, and it really irks me and has left therefore quite isolated (except for this fine on-line premise). So, that was a long way of explaining why I probably won't vote at all. But then I might vote for Stein afterall.... see, I'm fucked up on this decision-making shit. lol
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Nordic » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:56 am

8bitagent wrote:I thought this was interesting. For those who are not fans of Obama but can't allow a Romney win(and I more than can understand this) Cannonfire blog
has this to say...and it does make sense for whoever wins

As readers know, I think Mitt Romney is sufficiently vile to warrant support for Barack Obama in this election. But the day after that election, we should try to implement the key recommendation of this piece -- an independent movement designed to pressure the Democratic party to become, once again, a true alternative.

There's a difference, of course, between a movement and a third party. In American history, movements create change; third parties do not. The civil rights movement did a lot a good; the Peace and Freedom Party, not so much.

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/

I don't like seeing liberals fight amongst eachother, but instead I feel this is ultimately something powerful. As someone else said, one word: Wisconsin 2011.



That's a joke, right? Because all of that is, frankly, a joke.

Like the Democratic Party gives a rats ass what we, or anybody else, thinks of it. That's the biggest joke of all. How are we supposed to "pressure" them? Call them ugly names? Make them feel guilty? Hold our collective breaths until we turn blue?

How about we don't vote for their sorry asses?

How about we put them on "ignore" and build our own representatives and our own government. You know, this thing called "Democracy".
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:35 am

ninakat wrote:
8bitagent wrote:BIG hats off to Michael Rupert for putting together the first sound 9/11 truth presentation video just a couple months after, even warning of conspiracy disinfo to add noise.
I haven't posted yet in the "what made you awake" thread, and while I was looking up "conspiracy" stuff online way back in 1996, it wasn't really til 2004 I was starting to wake from the post 9/11 coma. By 2004 I was so mad at Bush, I voted for Kerry. Yet was back to the third party thang' by 2008, proudly voting for Cynthia Mckinney.


Nice -- very much my evolution as well (bold faced = same for me). I knew you were one of the good guys :yay .

Although we may diverge this year -- no biggy -- I'm so fucking confused, I still haven't made a final decision. It just won't be for either Obama or Romney. It'll be Stein or I might stay home. Hedges blames the people who stay home, but I don't quite see the world the way he does, plus I don't have as much of an investment in this life -- he's got a son. That almost forces him to become hopeful, perhaps. I'm not hopeful, because the numbers aren't adding up well for humankind now. We can, though, individually and collectively (small groups), start doing the right thing and withdrawing from consumerism, another wasteful part of living in their world. Babylon Is The Vampire. We can do other things to at least divert more of own individual energies away from the machine. We need to disconnect, en masse, in order to take back control. And then, it's going to have to be real austerity mixed with social safety nets (austere socialism, anyone?) if humans will survive. I don't see the remotest chance of that, even though I'm "being the change" an awful lot and creating a smidgeon of hope at home (it's what keeps me going). None of my colleagues in various past or present circles are changing a damned thing about how they live, and it really irks me and has left therefore quite isolated (except for this fine on-line premise). So, that was a long way of explaining why I probably won't vote at all. But then I might vote for Stein afterall.... see, I'm fucked up on this decision-making shit. lol


You know when you're a kid, and you and your friend divide a puzzle pile. You have thousands of little pieces, and a half hour later your friend has somehow managed to perfectly piece most of their pile together, while you maybe got a few corner pieces and trying to force others to fit. That's what reading your reply is like. "Nailed it" is an understatement. Grassroots is a vague, almost cliche term. Even when I was stuck in my very naive conspiracy rant phase(which comes out now and then online still), I strongly believed alternative communities and new ways of approaching things was key. I've seen so much evidence that the average person is trusting, good, helpful and just wants to live in a loving community. (Meaning people 30 and up) I think sadly, the people not paying attention as they text away/facebook on their cell phone will get worse. That whole techno addiction(or real life matrix) will get more and more intense.

I am frightened by the conspiracy right/survivalist/patriot types, the GOP faithful, the anarchist black bloc type folks, etc. That's why I stopped following a lot of conspiracy type stuff, as it just became a literal hive of reactionary intolerant bs. I do believe we need government safety nets. But we need so many new ways of approaching things. Clean fast mass rapid transit/bullet trains. The death of GMOs and the rise of affordable community markets.
Real alternative energy. We also need to, even if it impacts the environment, bring back a lot of factory jobs I feel. But overall a lot of out of the box thinkers. Some right wingers talk about "states rights". We need to see cities and communities coming together to create new sorts of framework that can benefit everyone in addition to new ways states operate(social services, transit, etc) I mean, people are just now finally able to accept transgender people or
realize GMO food is horrible for them. Long ways to go. But I get some conservative views. 50% plus divorce rates? Yeah thats not good.

It DOES suck and feel weird to see a lot of people we know not press pause in life and kind of gain a new perspective or see what's wrong. I get the isolationism. I often dont feel too happy about the drama loving, braindead techno addicted vibe society has fallen into. It truly is a real life Matrix that I fear will only get worse. We need to give ourselves permission to cast away habits we dont want, make healthy choices and think in new ways
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:41 am

Nordic wrote:
8bitagent wrote:I thought this was interesting. For those who are not fans of Obama but can't allow a Romney win(and I more than can understand this) Cannonfire blog
has this to say...and it does make sense for whoever wins

As readers know, I think Mitt Romney is sufficiently vile to warrant support for Barack Obama in this election. But the day after that election, we should try to implement the key recommendation of this piece -- an independent movement designed to pressure the Democratic party to become, once again, a true alternative.

There's a difference, of course, between a movement and a third party. In American history, movements create change; third parties do not. The civil rights movement did a lot a good; the Peace and Freedom Party, not so much.

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/

I don't like seeing liberals fight amongst eachother, but instead I feel this is ultimately something powerful. As someone else said, one word: Wisconsin 2011.



That's a joke, right? Because all of that is, frankly, a joke.

Like the Democratic Party gives a rats ass what we, or anybody else, thinks of it. That's the biggest joke of all. How are we supposed to "pressure" them? Call them ugly names? Make them feel guilty? Hold our collective breaths until we turn blue?

How about we don't vote for their sorry asses?

How about we put them on "ignore" and build our own representatives and our own government. You know, this thing called "Democracy".


I was just trying to make peace:) I don't like seeing people fight, and I thought this article was a compromise. In my heart I feel like...Obama the person may be a good man, but what he enables and represents is no by product or accident, and is part and parcel with the same monstrous structure that Bush represented. Not the neocons, but the overall militarization.

People think "OH! Gates seems sensible. OH! LGBT people can only serve. OH! were using drones instead of putting boots on the ground! Hey...we got bin Laden!"
they dont get it. Just because its not obviously frothing evil creatures like Cheney and Rumsfeld at the helm doesn't mean its a different agenda.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby bks » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:16 am

barracuda wrote:
American Dream wrote:4 year old is tired of hearing about Bronco Bama, Mitt Rominey, and the elections


Another whiney non-voter opting out of the election process. Doesn't she know this is just a vote for Romney?

DrVolin wrote:I don't expect a landslide, but at this point I expect a Romney win. Not widespread fraud, but very targeted fraud as smalll as possible to ensure the outcome.


The media has maintained the illusion of a close race for a reason.



Two of those reasons we can probably agree on:

1. It's very good for business, to the tune of billions of dollars in campaign ads in states that are statistically lost, but now being "contested" anyway; and

2. It's perfect for the self-aggrandizing undertaken by election pundits, who crave being treated as oracles for a few months of their lives.


But if you're suggesting something like:

3. the media are playing a willing role in the creation of a close race so that it can be stolen through electoral fraud, please do tell. Love to see some hard-ish evidence.

The Prick Morris and Fox News-type chest-puffing doesn't really count, since they'd be doing that anyway in the absence of a scheme to steal it. Hubris helps to get out the right-wing vote, bandwagon-effect style.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby barracuda » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:04 am

You know bks, I realize that every presidential election (and most congressional elections as well, ftm) are nowadays referred to as THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION OF OUR LIFETIME by much of our compliant and pandering media, but in my honest opinion, in retrospect, the most important election in my lifetime was the 2000 presidential election, and if you want hardish evidence of obvious media complicity in the stealing of an election by the Republicans, I think you can satisfied-ish by looking hard at the response to that travesty of democracy. The crew at the World Socialist Website laid out a pretty nice breakdown of the media bullshit in that case on the ten-year anniversary of the coup.

Sunday, December 12 marks ten years since the US Supreme Court effectively decided the outcome of the 2000 presidential election, halting the counting of votes in Florida and awarding the White House to George W. Bush. The 5-4 ruling in Bush v. Gore, together with the contemptible capitulation of the Democratic Party, constituted a milestone in the decay of American democracy.

In a social and political context in which the debacles produced by the Bush administration loom so large in everyday life, it might be thought that the American media and political opinion makers would devote considerable attention to the tenth anniversary of the event that placed Bush in the White House.

In fact, however, the silence is deafening. Neither the New York Times nor the Washington Post, the two leading national newspapers, published retrospectives to mark the occasion. Their example was emulated in the regional and local press and on the television networks. Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer, one of the four dissenters in Bush v. Gore, gave a rare live interview to Fox News Sunday, but the subject never came up.

Only one bourgeois pundit, right-wing columnist George Will, took up the issue, and he dismissed the Supreme Court action as one of little or no lasting significance, asserting that the passions over the decision “dissipated quickly” and that “remarkably little damage was done” by the post-election crisis.

Significantly, however, Will’s cursory rehash of the dispute included flatly antidemocratic assertions—that the votes of those who “cast ballots incompetently” should simply have been discarded and that the fundamental right at stake in the court fight was the “rights of state legislatures” (in Florida’s case, Republican-controlled), which have “plenary power” to determine voting procedures.

Will, of course, agrees with the five-member majority in Bush v. Gore that the central issue was not to determine, in as objective a fashion as possible, how the people of Florida actually voted—in other words, to count every vote—but to bring the controversy to a speedy end with the result favored by the political right. This entailed ignoring the result of the popular vote, won by Democrat Al Gore.

The silence of the nominally “liberal” press is a guilty one. They do not wish to revisit the history, not so long ago, in which the Democratic Party and the liberal media surrendered to a right-wing judicial coup d’état, whose effect was to install the most right-wing government in American history.

The election of November 7, 2000

The events of Election Day 2000, encompassing the night of Tuesday, November 7 and the early morning hours of Wednesday, November 8, are among the most extraordinary in American political history. Yet they came after a presidential campaign of the most humdrum character, in which no political issues were seriously discussed. The consensus among political pundits and pollsters was that Bush, then governor of Texas, held a narrow but significant lead over his Democratic opponent, Vice President Al Gore.

As in 1998, however, when predictions of major Republican gains in the midst of the impeachment crisis failed to materialize, it appeared as the votes began to be counted that the political establishment had underestimated the popular hostility towards the right-wing program of the Republican Party, founded on tax cuts for the wealthy and the slashing of domestic social spending.

Gore won many of the big industrial states with relative ease, including Michigan and Pennsylvania. The Democrats were sweeping the northeastern states and were expected to win the Pacific Coast, while Bush carried the south and southwest, the Rocky Mountain states and Ohio. It appeared that the election would be decided by Florida’s 25 votes in the Electoral College.

Just before 8 p.m., several US television networks called the outcome in Florida for Gore, based on their exit polls of voters compiled throughout the day. The Bush campaign reacted immediately, breaking with precedent and putting the candidate before television cameras to denounce the network projections and declare his certainty that Florida—where his brother Jeb was governor and the Republicans controlled the machinery of state government—would end up in his column.

The networks backed down, rescinding their call for Gore and declaring the outcome in Florida still undecided. Then, in the early hours of Wednesday, Fox News became the first network to call Florida for Bush, thereby declaring him the victor in the election.

Heading the decision desk, where the network reviewed vote totals and polls to arrive at projections, was John W. Ellis, a first cousin of George W. Bush. Ellis unilaterally called the election for Bush before any determination by the Voter News Service, the consortium of leading newspapers and television networks, after a 2 a.m. telephone discussion with Bush and his brother Jeb.

When the other networks followed suit, pronouncing Bush the winner, Democrat Al Gore telephoned his concession to Bush. But on the way to make his televised concession speech before an audience of supporters in Nashville, Gore received a phone call from campaign aides who advised him that the numbers in Florida showed the race too close to call. Gore telephoned Bush again and retracted his concession.

These events had critical importance for what was to follow. The media coverage, as well as Gore’s premature concession, gave the impression to the public that Bush had “won” Florida—and the national election—by a narrow margin. Throughout the ensuing crisis, the corporate-controlled media largely parroted the official Republican posture that Bush was the presumptive winner. The fact that Gore had won by a sizeable margin in the national popular vote, as much as a half million votes, was dismissed as of no significance.


I would also point to the quite recent re-evaluation of the significance of exit polling on election day. Twenty years ago, the scientific accuracy of such polling was an understanding relied upon by every network and news outlet in the United States. Now for some inexplicable reason, the variation between exit polls and actual results has become a commonplace. The first indication that this was happening was during reporting of exit polls favoring John Kerry in 2004, and although the evidence in this case is not as unequivocal as one might like, I would say, to me, it qualifies as hardish-ish, and bears examination germane to your request.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Unite ... it_polling
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Jeff » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:18 am

Election theft really is like stealing candy from a baby, because the electorate has been infantilized, and even if they notice the theft they'll cry and cry and then fall asleep.

And yes, I'm calling it for Romney.

Whether it's reality or not, the perception exists that he has the edge in independents and whites, and has erased Obama's margin with women. Republicans appear to have the more motivated base and the more likely-to-vote supporters. A little tweaking here and there as necessary should be enough to hand it to him.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby barracuda » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:25 am

Image
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Jeff » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:58 am

barracuda wrote:Image


Image

Ben you're always running here and there
You feel you're not wanted anywhere
If you ever look behind and don't like what you find
There's something you should know you've got a place to go

Ben most people would turn you away
I don't listen to a word they say
They don't see you as I do I wish they would try to
I'm sure they'd think again if they had a friend like Ben
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