Friday night Pandemic Watch - Swine Flu coming to you?

[Col. Quisp]

good points...guess we'll wait and see what is going on once the WHO investigates.

[23]

I'm guessing that you unquestionably trust what the CDC wants you to believe.

Otherwise, you wouldn't be citing their attestations so liberally.

Which I find regrettable. That you trust them the way that you do, that is.

You're in good company, though. Most Americans trust the CDC unquestionable too. You're in good company indeed.

I don't trust the CDC. They lied too many times in the past. As any decent search engine will remind you.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9mh9f ... nda_webcam

From CDC

Does the 2009 H1N1 flu shot have mercury in it?

There is no evidence that thimerosal (a mercury preservative in vaccine that comes in multi-dose vials) is harmful to a pregnant woman or a fetus. However, because some women are concerned about thimerosal during pregnancy, vaccine companies are making preservative-free seasonal flu vaccine and 2009 H1N1 flu vaccine in single-dose syringes for pregnant women and small children. CDC advises pregnant women to get flu shots either with or without thimerosal.

Does the 2009 H1N1 flu shot have an adjuvant or squalene in it?

Adjuvants are agents that are sometimes added to a vaccine to make it more effective. There are no adjuvants (such as squalene) in either the 2009 H1N1 or seasonal flu shot used in the United States.

Is the 2009 H1N1 flu shot expected to be associated with Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS)?

In 1976, an earlier type of swine flu vaccine was associated with cases of a severe paralytic illness called Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS) at a rate of approximately 1 case of GBS per 100,000 persons vaccinated. Some studies done since 1976 have shown a small risk of GBS in persons who received the seasonal influenza vaccine. This risk is estimated to be no more than 1 case of GBS per 1 million persons vaccinated. Other studies have shown no increase in risk of GBS. Pregnant women should tell the person giving the shots if they have ever had GBS.

[lightningBugout]

I could've quite easily hit you with a similarly patronizing condemnation of that part of your reasoning with which I disagree. Please note that I did not.

I did not cite the CDC as a definitive authority. Yet you accuse me of "clinging" to them? You read that in. I was only trying to get clear on what they have said and adding that to the mix.

[23]

I could've quite easily hit you with a similarly patronizing condemnation of that part of your reasoning with which I disagree. Please note that I did not.

I did not cite the CDC as a definitive authority. Yet you accuse me of "clinging" to them? You read that in. I was only trying to get clear on what they have said and adding that to the mix.

You might try being a little more accurate in your counterpoints.

I never said that you clung to them. Where do you see evidence of that?

I did say, however, that you liberally cite their materials to make your points.

A review of your posts easily supports that.

But let's get to the heart of the matter, then.

Do you trust everything that the CDC puts out for public consumption?

It's a simple question.

Do you?

[lightningBugout]

Do you trust everything that the CDC puts out for public consumption?

It's a simple question.

Do you?

Of course not. But I think, as a starting point, it is crucial to be very clear about what they have said.

Shall I ask if you trust everything David Icke puts out for public consumption simply because you linked to that tortured baby propaganda image you took from his website?

[23]

Do you trust everything that the CDC puts out for public consumption?

It's a simple question.

Do you?

Of course not. But I think, as a starting point, it is crucial to be very clear about what they have said.

Good. I'm glad that you clarified that.

Because from this point on, and every time that you cite something that they say about about H1N12 and their vaccination for it, I'll remember that you don't fully trust them.

Thanks for that clarification.

I'll be able to read your future citations, from the CDC, in the proper context.

That they are being submitted by someone who doesn't fully trust what they have to say.

That's helpful.

[lightningBugout]

Do you trust everything that the CDC puts out for public consumption?

It's a simple question.

Do you?

Of course not. But I think, as a starting point, it is crucial to be very clear about what they have said.

Good. I'm glad that you clarified that.

Because from this point on, and every time that you cite something that they say about about H1N12 and their vaccination for it, I'll remember that you don't fully trust them.

Thanks for that clarification.

I'll be able to read your future citations, from the CDC, in the proper context.

Ironically 23, it was you who cited the authority of the CDC to claim that h1n1 was on the decline. Remember?

I see you like to refer to them when they support your own biases.

I do not trust anyone or anything entirely. The CDC is in no way unique in that regard. And I do trust the CDC wrt to the things I posted above. I believe them that there is no thimerosal in single doses of h1n1 vaccine, and no squalene, etc.

[23]

Ironically 23, it was you who cited the authority of the CDC to claim that h1n1 was on the decline. Remember?

I recall that specific subject, and I encourage you to reread my actual words a little more carefully.

I gave them no such authority.

In fact, and when I later comment about the decline of cases in Atlanta, I state what the CDC's position actually is.

Which, historically and not surprisingly, is the denial of certain facts which doesn't serve their purposes.

I've mentioned, on several occasions, that I don't trust them. Which is why I never use their propaganda to support a point. Unless, that is, the point is their propaganda.

[lightningBugout]

Obama calling it a national emergency... after H1N1 had already peaked here and was graphing downwards (according to the CDC)... smells like Big Pharma to me.

So if you don't trust the CDC, how have you reached a conclusion about Obama's declaration? If they are understating the numbers, it would suggest that you think Obama's declaration is, in fact, legitimate? I had the distinct impression you were relying on the discrepancy between Obama's declaration and the CDCs, presumably more reliable "graphing downwards" numbers, to suggest that Obama's declaration was the direct result of intervention by "Big Pharma."

[justdrew]

you can not fully trust them and still not think EVERYTHING they say is propaganda. They could just be wrong for instance. Been known to happen, especially where science is involved and we keep going on and learn more, it's common to find that early best guesses were wrong or only partially right. Unfortunately our society is very bad at hearing, "ok, now this is the best educated guess we have at the moment based on the limited and imperfect information we've been able to gather..." nobody wants to hear that, but... you should just assume that sentence at the start of any sort of official pronouncement on anything.

IF there were something funky going on with swine flu and/or the vaccine there's no reason to assume the folks at the CDC would have been let in on the gig.

It doesn't look to me like there's anything serious going to come of this and that we're perhaps over-reacting, and some other country are surely over reacting, Egypt for instance.

===

some things to look for on the net:
a year or so ago there were reports of a network of folks in Europe setting up virus traps in in people moving areas near airports and identifying various viruses detected and such. Then mapping the info... you could see swarm like strains of flu moving around and track how it flowed into an area and such. cheap equipment was used, school kids or college students involved.

Following up on that it would be totally possible to set up on the internet a distributed people-powered viral monitoring system so we could have some more trust-able information... and help develop a larger population of people who know how to identify wild virus types. and have much better luck spotting new strains when they crop up.

[stickdog99]

From CDC

Does the 2009 H1N1 flu shot have mercury in it?

There is no evidence that thimerosal (a mercury preservative in vaccine that comes in multi-dose vials) is harmful to a pregnant woman or a fetus. However, because some women are concerned about thimerosal during pregnancy, vaccine companies are making preservative-free seasonal flu vaccine and 2009 H1N1 flu vaccine in single-dose syringes for pregnant women and small children. CDC advises pregnant women to get flu shots either with or without thimerosal.

Show me one person who has successfully procured a single dose, non-thimerosal spiked version of the H1N1 vaccine and then tell me how to do the same.

[lightningBugout]

If you actually wanted to get the h1n1 vaccine but avoid thimerosal, you could get the live mist anywhere the vaccine is being administered.

From what I have read, the thimerosal-free single dose vaccine is being reserved for pregnant women who request it specifically from a physician.

[stickdog99]

If you actually wanted to get the h1n1 vaccine but avoid thimerosal, you could get the live mist anywhere the vaccine is being administered.

From what I have read, the thimerosal-free single dose vaccine is being reserved for pregnant women who request it specifically from a physician.

FLUMIST is far scarier than thimerosal, as I pointed out.

[lightningBugout]

Pandemic (H1N1) 2009, Ukraine - update 1 (WHO)

3 November 2009 -- According to the Ministry of Health of Ukraine, the country has now recorded more than 250 000 cases of influenza-like illness, with 235 patients requiring intensive care. As of 2 November, 70 deaths from acute respiratory illness have been reported.

Regions in western Ukraine continue to show the highest rates of acute respiratory illness/influenza-like illness. The level of activity in the Kyiv area is also increasing rapidly.

Laboratory testing in Ukraine has confirmed pandemic H1N1 influenza virus in samples taken from patients in two of the most affected regions. As the pandemic virus has rapidly become the dominant influenza strain worldwide, it can be assumed that most cases of influenza in Ukraine are caused by the H1N1 virus.

As elsewhere, WHO strongly recommends early treatment with the antiviral drugs, oseltamivir or zanamivir, for patients who meet treatment criteria, even in the absence of a positive laboratory test confirming H1N1 infection.

At the request of the government, a multi-disciplinary team of nine experts has been deployed by WHO and arrived in Kyiv yesterday evening. Discussions with the Minister of Health were held this morning to brief the team.

Team members will now begin field investigations to characterize the clinical and epidemiological features of the outbreak. Work will initially begin in Lviv region, where reported numbers of cases showing severe manifestations of acute respiratory illness have been especially high. Two virologists on the team have started working at the National Influenza Centre and the laboratories of the Central Sanitary and Epidemiological Station in Kyiv to provide diagnostic support.

Samples sent by the Ministry of Health were received today by the WHO Collaborating Centre for Reference and Research on Influenza, Mill Hill in London, UK. The laboratory will conduct confirmatory tests and further characterize the virus.

Many questions remain to be answered. The outbreak in Ukraine may be indicative of how the virus can behave in the northern hemisphere during the winter season, particularly in health care settings typically found in Eastern Europe.

Given the potential significance of this outbreak as an early warning signal, WHO commends the government of Ukraine for its transparent reporting and open sharing of samples.

WHO continues to recommend no closing of borders and no restrictions on international travel, including to Ukraine. Experience shows that such measures will not stop further spread of the virus.

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Ukraine - President hears reports of commanders of armed forces on fighting flu

President Victor Yushchenko met the First Deputy Defense Minister Valeriy Ivashchenko, Commander of Interior Troops of Ukraine Oleksandr Kikhtenko, Chairman of the State Border Guard Service Mykola Lytvyn, Chairman of Administration of the State Special Transport Service Mykola Malkov to hear their reports on the execution of Security and Defense Council instructions on protection of national security in an outbreak of pandemic flu in Ukraine.

First of all sides have discussed providing aid to civilians in fighting flu and respiratory illnesses.

In accordance with the instruction of the NSDC of October 30, 2009 "On urgent measures to ensure national security in an outbreak of pandemic flu in Ukraine” the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine was supposed to:

1) provide medical teams and mobile hospitals in consultation with the Ministry of Health of Ukraine to give medical assistance to the population of mainly rural areas

2) provide military mobile hospitals and labs, ambulance airplane AN-26 "Vita" and sanitary helicopter Mi-8 to take part in conducting medical treatment and preventive measures in the regions with the worst sanitary-epidemiological situation in response to the appropriate requests of the Ministry of Health of Ukraine.

The President was also informed on the sickness rate and measures taken to fight the outbreak of flu in military units, prevention of the disease, vaccination and observation of quarantine.

Separately participants of the meeting have discussed the situation with conscription to the armed forces. As a preventive measure the Defense Ministry decided to postpone sending the November draftees to their units for ten days and to suspend gathering the recruits at recruiting stations for the period, as well as to speed up demobilization of soldiers, who have completed their service.

The President has instructed the commanders of military units to enhance coordination with the Ministry of Health, Chief Sanitary Doctor, and to conduct consultations on preventive measures, one of which is vaccination against seasonal flu.

Victor Yushchenko also emphasized the importance of follow quarantine regime and limiting the number of mass events with participation of the military.

The President also stressed the need holding regular testing of all military formations for respiratory illnesses. To ensure that Ministry of Defense and other agencies are to prepare applications to Ministry of Health for provision of test systems that it has, including those received as international humanitarian assistance.

The President requested the present officials to provide information on the sickness rate in regular units daily and in those, where there are conscripts - twice a day.

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Ukraine leader attacks rivals over flu epidemic
Wed Nov 4, 2009 4:19pm EST

KIEV, Nov 4 (Reuters) - Ukrainian leader Viktor Yushchenko on Wednesday accused opponents running against him in a January presidential election of criminal negligence in the way they have handled an outbreak of swine flu. Yushchenko said bitter rival Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, ex-prime minister Viktor Yanukovich and parliamentary speaker Volodymyr Lytvyn were all aware of a flu epidemic in the week they organised mass rallies for their own campaigns.

The government announced a series of strict measures such as school closures and a ban on public events, including rallies, last week after the first confirmed swine flu death.

Yushchenko, unlikely to win re-election with support at 5 percent of the population or under, was due to hold his rally on Saturday -- after the measures were put in place.

"The first and most effective method of prevention is not to allow mass gatherings of people. But, ignoring this rule, hundreds of thousands of people were brought to Kiev for various events from different regions," Yushchenko told television stations in a broadcast to the nation.

"I want to stress that those who organised these events knew the situation and they've ignored it. The parliament speaker and the leader of the opposition and, most importantly, the prime minister, ignored the facts of the epidemics," Yushchenko said.

"This is completely similar to the May Day rallies in Kiev after the Chernobyl disaster," he said referring to the Soviet cover-up of the 1986 nuclear reactor explosion to Ukrainians who were exposed to radiation for days without knowing of it.

Ukrainian authorities have said at least three people have died of the H1N1 variety of flu. Out of some 450,000 cases of acute respiratory illness registered in the country about 20 or slightly under have been confirmed as swine flu.

More than 80 people have died since mid-October of the flu and other respiratory illnesses and the World Health Organisation has said it assumes most flu cases in Ukraine have been caused by the H1N1 virus.

Both Tymoshenko and Yushchenko have sought to take a lead in handling the flu epidemic -- while the president appealed for aid from neighbouring countries, the prime minister met the first consignment of medicines at the airport on Sunday.

"I see not only moral, but criminal responsibility here. I have asked Ukraine's General Prosecutor's office to start a criminal investigation into the cases of negligence" amongst Ukraine's top health officials and government members, Yushchenko said.

Opposition leader Yanukovich leads the opinion polls with about 28 percent and is expected to face Tymoshenko, with about 20 percent support now, in a final round of voting in February. (Writing by Sabina Zawadzki)

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Ukraine flu outbreak widens, Kiev announces control moves - Summary
Posted on : 2009-11-04 | Author : dpa
News Category : Health

Kiev - Ukraine's deadly flu outbreak widened on Wednesday, as government officials announced new emergency measures in an attempt to control the spread of the illness. More than 478,000 people were registered with national health authorities as suffering from the flu, of whom 17 had confirmed cases of swine flu, Health Ministry spokeswoman Lyudmila Luharska said.

The nationwide death count from flu-related illnesses since late October stood at 86, Luharska said at a Kiev press conference, according to the Ukrainska Pravda website.

Flu infection was highest in Ukraine's western Lviv, Ternopil and Ivano-Frankivsk provinces, where reports of flu to health authorities had doubled since the weekend, she said.

Four deaths from the virulent swine flu strain were confirmed as of Thursday, Luharska said.

One man who died of swine flu was a Kiev resident, the news agency Interfax reported. A second person in the Ukrainian capital was suspected of having been infected with swine flu.

The Kiev swine flu death marked the first jump of swine flu from Ukraine's western provinces, where the flu outbreak has been concentrated so far, to Kiev, Ukraine's largest metropolitan area.

Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko said at a meeting that her government would enact more emergency measures to control the disease's spread and to combat retail shortages of anti-flu drugs and protective anti-infection masks.

Tymoshenko said the government would prepare a plan "within a week" to establish a nationwide chain of state-run drug sales centres to combat what she called hoarding and price-gouging by the private health industry, according to a report by the Korrespondent website.

The centres, each offering a limited assortment of some 100 basic anti-cold and flu drugs, would operate in government-run hospitals and clinics, and sell medical supplies at a marginal price mark-up, Tymoshenko said.

Tymoshenko also instructed Foreign Minister Petro Poroshenko to obtain a "special pandemic price" in negotiations with international drug companies for emergency deliveries of anti-flu drugs to Ukraine, according to an Interfax report.

Government textile and clothes factories have received 1 million metres of gauze and cheesecloth from state reserves, Tymoshenko said,and emergency production of surgical masks was beginning, according to a TSN television news report.

Initial deliveries of cloth masks would reach the general public in seven days, "sufficient to provide every Ukrainian citizen two masks," she said.

Factories in Kharkiv and the hard-hit Lviv region would produce the masks, according to Ukrainian media reports. Tymoshenko on Monday said that if necessary, her government would commit 6 million metres of gauze and cheesecloth to the emergency mask production programme.

Tymoshenko was scheduled to travel to the Lviv province, the epicentre of the flu outbreak, on Thursday afternoon, according to a Cabinet of Ministers statement.

[tazmic]

WHO continues to recommend no closing of borders and no restrictions on international travel, including to Ukraine. Experience shows that such measures will not stop further spread of the virus.

Is this obvious to anyone?