shooting at DC Holocaust museum

[Sweejak]

You know what I find mysterious about this a is how can a person achieve 88 years of age and still be so consumed. One would think a certain amount of wisdom had made it's way into his mind at that ripe old age. Elaine's blog entry went into that a bit. I don't know many people that age, the few that I do have a decidedly calm outlook even as they are aware of the daily outrages.

[AlicetheKurious]

If it hadn't been for the obnoxious neocon U.S. ambassador David Welch, and the hysterical reaction by American Jewish groups like the ADL, not to mention the letter signed by 46 congressmen demanding that the soap opera not be aired, and the threats to cut off U.S. aid to Egypt, the mini-series would have come and gone with barely a blip on the radar.

Because of all the publicity, I tried to watch it, but I couldn't get through even one episode because it was so boring and so poorly done. Apparently I wasn't alone, because nobody seems to have liked it -- not because of the negative publicity, but despite it.

Context: the series was made in 2002, at a time when people were deeply outraged and disgusted by Israel's recent re-invasion of the Palestinian territories and the indiscriminate killing of so many innocent people. The Israelis' refusal to allow the UN to investigate what they did in Jenin refugee camp, and the UN's meek acceptance of Israel's orders, only added fuel to the fire.

Similarly, the Americans' belligerence toward Iraq's supposed violations of UN resolutions, so aggressively stoked by the neocons, while they supported far worse crimes by Israel, provoked helpless fury in ordinary people.

A fanatic neocon and tireless advocate for a U.S. invasion of Iraq, David Welch had already made himself intensely disliked for his constant attempts to dictate to the Egyptian press what they should or should not say. Rather than an ambassador to a sovereign country, he behaved as though he considered himself a colonial administrator. Besides, he was always superciliously lecturing Egyptians about how the U.S., unlike them, values 'freedom', especially freedom of expression'. Nobody could stand him.

So, when His Excellency started making threats and explicitly ORDERED the Egyptian government to stop the privately-owned satellite channel from airing the series, this was a great opportunity to tell him where he could shove it. Not that the Egyptian government would have stood up to him on their own, but in this case the popular mood was ugly. Nobody missed the irony of these pro-Israeli congressmen supporting the indiscriminate slaughter of Palestinian refugees by the illegal Israeli occupation, while wetting their panties over a soap opera.

Because that's all it was -- one soap opera among the hundreds competing for a tiny slice of audience share over the month of Ramadan.

As for the Protocols, the series' writer, producer and lead actor, comedian Mohamed Sobhi, readily said that he's aware they are a forgery, but that he'd used them as a literary device in one episode where the protagonist, a journalist who had witnessed the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, the British and French takeover of the Middle East and the rise of zionism, accidentally comes across the book and compares what it says with what is actually happening around him.

The over-the-top reaction further convinced many here that the Americans are dangerous hypocrites who finance and defend the Israelis' extreme racist incitement, genocide and ethnic cleansing against Arabs, but whose moral wrath and self-righteousness is suddenly unleashed by a minor part of a minor soap opera made for teevee by an Arab guy.

Especially when I take into consideration how Hollywood has been portraying the eeeeevil, cunning and bloodthirsty Arabs for the past century, and the Protocols of the Al Qaeda Cave Dwellers, I think they're right.

I could easily list dozens of examples of films and shows made in Hollywood and Israel that are routinely incite extreme racism and dehumanization of Arabs and Muslims, compared to which A Knight Without a Horse is truly innocuous. I'll be happy to start a new thread all about those, if anyone's interested.

We can go back on-topic now.

On edit: I hadn't read the Linda Heard article when I posted this, but it's uncanny how we covered many of the same points.

[Nordic]

Thanks, Alice. I love getting your point of view. Any point of view other than the "official" American position is sorely lacking in our country.

It's like a new iron curtain.

[Percival]

You know what I find mysterious about this a is how can a person achieve 88 years of age and still be so consumed. One would think a certain amount of wisdom had made it's way into his mind at that ripe old age. Elaine's blog entry went into that a bit. I don't know many people that age, the few that I do have a decidedly calm outlook even as they are aware of the daily outrages.

The story taking shape now, as told by those close to him, was that he was recently notified that his SS check was being cut off completely and he was convinced that it was because the govt was reading his website. He told friends that he was financial dire straights because of it and that he was going to do something about it and that they probably would be seein him anymore.

So apparently he had no real intention of doing something like this until he was pushed overboard because his check was being cut off, which makes me wonder if someone maybe sort of thought he would react this way, I mean it is handy to have another right wing extremist attack to piggy back last weeks abortion doctor murder, esp now that we see FOX and CNN running streams at the bottom of the screen telling viewers to contact DHS if they know anything about Von Brunn OR OTHERS WHO HAVE BELIEFS LIKE HIS, basically meaning conspiracy types, I assume.

[Sweejak]

Wow, that's sort of reminds me of the synagogue terrorist a few weeks back whose brother needed a liver transplant and Mr FBI was going to pay for it all.

[American Dream]

As to the Protocols, I can't even imagine such a thing airing in the United States, certainly not without a major uproar.

That is could and did air in Egypt says something about a very real difference between the two places. Not that I think the United States is so utterly commendable, but certainly different in this regard.

[OP ED]

ha. only in its choice of victims.

[AlicetheKurious]

As to the Protocols, I can't even imagine such a thing airing in the United States, certainly not without a major uproar.

That is could and did air in Egypt says something about a very real difference between the two places. Not that I think the United States is so utterly commendable, but certainly different in this regard.

ha. only in its choice of victims.

And the number of dead, maimed, orphaned, stripped of everything they have and treated worse than animals.

Nothing that's EVER been aired on Egyptian tv can come close to comparing with the virulence and racism that Hollywood has been systematically promoting for the past 100 years:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko_N4BcaIPY

Fucking hypocrites. That means you too, "American Dream".

[American Dream]

Alice, you excel at filtering everything through your own lens, and I would say that lens has some pretty serious distortions here.

In this particular case, anyone who reads will notice that I did not say that Egypt is somehow more horrible than the United States.

I did say that they were different.

Here where we're talking about a hateful racist who murdered innocent people in cold blood, I don't think I would be trumpeting the superiority of "my" country. Martin Luther King correctly called it the "number one purveyor of violence in the World", and while he was referring to the government itself, individual citizens here do often reflect the violence and racism inherent within the system, often to very deadly effect.

What I think you're not acknowledging here sufficiently is the power of any and all forms of racism to make the world worse, and the reality that anti-Semitism exists as part of a larger package which does very much hurt people and make the world a shittier place.

Please note that I am in no way excusing nor minimizing the importance of Islamophobia and anti-Arab racism, neither Israeli or American military aggression in general.

I am however saying that a principled and moral stand should lead to definitively rejecting all forms of racism. In your case this would naturally lead towards taking a longer and harder look at models of global Jewish/Zionist conspiracy and the destructive role which they play in our world.

Nowhere is this more important than in the question of how to intelligently and effectively confront the violence and aggression of the Israeli State.

[AlicetheKurious]

American Dream said:

In your case this would naturally lead towards taking a longer and harder look at models of global Jewish/Zionist conspiracy and the destructive role which they play in our world.

"Our" world? Does your world include the crushing of Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, secret international renditions, the trail of devastation left by the IMF & the World Bank, the Western/Israeli-backed bloodbaths in Africa, the Western media's warmongering agitprop based on lies about Iran, prominent neocons' accusation that Obama is a "secret Muslim" and the "international community's" highly selective unwillingness to enforce international law?

In your world, presumably, none of it is planned, certainly not by anyone identifiable (unless they're part of the 'WASP global elite'), it's a no-no to ascribe zionist ideological motives to any of the perps, but it's ok to mention perps who are 'neo-nazi' or 'imperialist' ideologues. If the latter, it's all interconnected in a nefarious web rooted in the early part of the 20th century -- otherwise, especially if zionist fanatics are involved, none of it is connected to anything else and to demonstrate otherwise means one is a kooky conspiracy theorist, and anti-semitic, to boot.

I think we maybe don't live in the same world.

[American Dream]

Alice, we do live in the same world and you know full well that I also reject the kind of bullshit you just described.

The big difference is that you are far more willing to blame it all on a global "Zionist" conspiracy. While I do see those sorts of ideas being peddled here by black nationalists and white racists, they would never air on TV here, much less any sort of TV sanctioned by the State.

Here the media is more likely to encourage us to blame immigrants, Moslems, poor people and etc., but not a Jewish/Zionist conspiracy per se.

This doesn't mean that the United States is "better", just that the context is somehow different.

[AlicetheKurious]

Here the media is more likely to encourage us to blame immigrants, Moslems, poor people and etc., but not a Jewish/Zionist conspiracy per se.

This doesn't mean that the United States is "better", just that the context is somehow different.

To what do you ascribe this strange 'encouragement' by the U.S. media "to blame immigrants, Moslems, poor people and etc."? Could it have anything to do with who is in a position to shape that media and its message? It's hardly hateful to point out that the media's clear ideological (and racist) bias strongly influences American perceptions of the world, most egregiously that of children, as represented by the blatant and very well-documented anti-Arab and anti-Muslim demonization and dehumanization 'peddled' by Disney.

If a nation's media is abusing its power, especially if it can be demonstrated that it does so in service of a foreign agenda, surely citizens have a duty to critically scrutinize the ideological biases of those who dominate that media.

If those who own and run the media were behaving responsibly, this wouldn't be an issue. But if they persist in using the media as their bully-pulpit from which to propagate a monolithic, warmongering racism and to otherwise promote their own hateful world-view they can't simply silence dissent by cynically claiming that they're the victims of racism.

In a just world, they wouldn't be allowed to get away with that, but would be held accountable and at least openly denounced for their abuse of power. But they're not.

Why not?

[American Dream]

AlicetheKurious wrote:

To what do you ascribe this strange 'encouragement' by the U.S. media "to blame immigrants, Moslems, poor people and etc."? Could it have anything to do with who is in a position to shape that media and its message?

I'd say it's pretty clear that the U.S. is the global hegemon in a military/economic sense and to a significant degree, in a cultural sense also.

Please note that what I am referring to has little relation to what you allude to when making insinuations about how "they" run the U.S. media and government, where "they"=Zionists/Jews. I believe that this is an extremely misguided way of trying to make sense of the world.

Especially given that this is a thread about a man who organized his life around global Jewish conspiracy models and other such racist tropes, I'm wondering what your reaction is to the question of how this sort of theory shaped von Brunn as a social actor.

If you try to tell us that the bloodshed in Washington is simply proof of how devilishly sophisticated the Zionist conspiracy is, please provide some evidence to back up your assertions.

[AlicetheKurious]

Binghamton Rampage Leaves 14 Dead, Police Don't Know Motive

Shooter's Sister: 'He Shot Those People? No, No'

By RICHARD ESPOSITO, PIERRE THOMAS, RUSSELL GOLDMAN, NED POTTER and SCOTT MICHELS
April 3, 2009

As many as 14 people have been shot dead in a murderous three-minute shooting rampage inside an upstate New York civic association building that caters to immigrants, according to federal and state authorities.
A mass shooting in Binghamton, New York leaves at least fourteen people dead.

The gunman was identified by some police sources as Jiverly Voong.

According to Binghamton Police Chief Joe Zikuski, the gunman entered the one-story American Civic Association in downtown Binghamton at 10:31 a.m. today and began his shooting spree.

By 10:33 a.m., the shooting was over and 14 people -- including the gunman -- lay dead, the chief said. ...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7249853&page=1


Worst U.S. shooting ever kills 33 on Va. campus
15 others wounded as panic grips Virginia Tech for 2½ hours
Alan Kim / The Roanoke Times via AP

updated 1:07 a.m. ET April 17, 2007

BLACKSBURG, Va. - Local, state and federal investigators scoured a university campus in Virginia for clues to what set off the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history after a gunman shot two people to death in a dormitory Monday morning before making his way to a classroom building where, silently and coolly, he killed 30 more people before turning his weapon on himself, authorities said.

At least 15 other people were wounded in the shootings, which took place over 2½ hours at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University. Some of them were injured as they leapt to safety from the windows of their classrooms.

The shootings, which came just four days before the eighth anniversary of the Columbine High School bloodbath, in which two students killed 13 people and themselves near Littleton, Colo., created panic and confusion at the university, which was already on edge after two weeks of bomb threats. ....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/


Authorities: Ala. shooter sued mom's employer
Gunman in spree that left 11 dead trained as police officer, recently quit job

March 11: Authorities are still trying to sort out what might have caused a 28-year-old Michael McLendon to go on a murderous rampage across South Alabama, claiming the lives of at least 10 people. NBC's Ron Mott reports.

updated 8:37 p.m. ET March 11, 2009

SAMSON, Ala. - The gunman who killed 10 people then himself in a rampage in south Alabama had filed a lawsuit along with his mother against the poultry plant that suspended her from her job, federal court records show.

Authorities said the company, Pilgrim Pride, was on a list that Michael McLendon kept of employers and people "who had done him wrong."

The records show McLendon and his mother, Lisa McLendon, are among employees who sued over compensation claims from 2006. McLendon killed his mother and nine others in a burst of gunfire across two counties. ....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29623587/



Santa Shooting Rampage: 9 Killed in Brutal Murder Suicide
December 25, 2008 at 03:09 pm
10639 views | 42 Recommendations | 25 comments

Breaking news. Man in Santa suit kills three people at a Christmas Eve party, throws Molotov Cocktails, commits arson and burns down home. Tragic! Breaking news this evening, death toll later at seven and increased to nine as of 20:54 PT!

Man Dressed As Santa Clause Starts Shooting At California Christmas Eve Party

Witnesses stated that a male suspect dressed in a Santa Claus suit, burst into a Covina home and blasted occupants with a firearm at close range, while the people in the home celebrated a Christmas Eve party. It is further alleged that Santa then threw Molotov Cocktails (A Russian form of Napalm in a bottle) into the Covina home in the suburbs of Los Angeles, California.

The Covina home then caught fire. At least three people were confirmed dead earlier in the day according to the Covina police.The death toll increased to seven dead as the search through the burned out home progressed for charred remains. The death toll is now at nine.

The Santa impostor showed up at the Christmas party, began shooting the occupants with a handgun according to Covina police Lieutenant Pat Buchanan.

Officer Buchanan stated that at least three bodies were initially found when the fire was finally put out. It was later determined that the Santa used the fire bombs to ignite the fire. ...

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/santa-sh ... er-suicide

Especially given that this is a thread about a man who organized his life around global Jewish conspiracy models and other such racist tropes, I'm wondering what your reaction is to the question of how this sort of theory shaped von Brunn as a social actor.

If this is part of a trend, I think it's more likely to be a trend of social alienation, frustration, feelings of helplessness and untreated mental illness than any specific 'theory' these individual killers latch on to. The violence-saturated media doesn't help, I would imagine.

If you try to tell us that the bloodshed in Washington is simply proof of how devilishly sophisticated the Zionist conspiracy is, please provide some evidence to back up your assertions.

I don't know about "devilishly sophisticated", but it will be interesting to see whether this relatively minor incident is exploited to serve a political agenda, and if so, whose. Ok?

[American Dream]

Pretty much everything that happens is grist for the propaganda mill, especially with regards to the "Israel Lobby" inside the United States, so without a doubt the shooting will be exploited to full effect.

This by itself proves nothing whatsoever about what may have motivated von Brunn, including in regards to alleged plots to discredit the supposed "truth" about a global Jewish conspiracy. No doubt though, allegations about this kind of thing will be surfacing in the weeks to come, originating from the usual "unbiased" sources.