White Power USA: Video Report By Al Jazeera

[American Dream]

Here is something on the Pacifica Forum, from Wikipedia:

Controversies

Valdas Anelauskas, a Lithuanian immigrant who describes himself as a white separatist, hosted a series of Pacifica Forum talks in 2006, 2008 and 2009. Another speaker, Jimmy Marr, described Martin Luther King, Jr. as a "moral leper and communist dupe", and that the American Civil Rights Movement was funded by Jewish communists and the USSR in an attempt to incite violence. Orval Etter and many other attendees strongly reject this perspective.[2][6][7][8]

The group hosted right-wing intellectual Tomislav Sunic, former Croatian diplomat and author of Homo Americanus: Child Of The Post-Modern Age as a speaker in June 2008. David Irving was also a featured speaker during the same month, speaking on his imprisonment in Austria for Holocaust denial.[9]

In November 2007, Mark Weber of the Institute for Historical Review, appeared at an event organized by the Pacifica Forum. Weber was billed by the group as "America's most prominent revisionist historian". The Weber event was promoted using a flyer that depicts a snake curled in the shape of a Star of David and the headline: "Free Speech versus Zionist power". The meeting was attended by an estimated 60 people.[9]

Orval Etter attended both the Irving and Weber talks, and states that both men are legitimate historians. The SPLC claims he stated "I admit that there were some bad things done to Jews during World War II, but I don't believe that everything they claim is truthful."[6] Etter and other regular attendees say the same of the SPLC, and gave a series of talks during 2009, based on the research of John Tanton,[citation needed] who criticizes the organization for innacuracy.[10]

The former president of the UO, David B. Frohnmayer, criticized the Pacifica Forum and stated that its views do not represent those of the university. The forum is the only group Frohnmayer has singled out in this way.[citation needed] It has also drawn criticism from the University of Oregon Hillel, a Jewish student group.[6] The forum has access to campus facilities, despite attempts by local anti-hate campaigners to evict it, due to a university policy allowing retired professors to host meetings on campus.[1][9]

In December 2009, speaker Jimmy Marr gave a presentation entitled: "National Socialist Movement: An Insider's View of America's Radical Right." During the presentation, Marr invited all those in attendance to join him in giving the Sieg Heil salute. Marr also showed video footage from a National Socialist Movement demonstration in Phoenix, Arizona. According to a report in the Eugene Weekly (EW), the video shows one of the speakers pointing at a protester and shouting: "YOU are a Jew! A traitor Jew!".[11]

On January 8, 2010, Pacifica Forum held a meeting entitled "Everything You Wanted to Know About Pacifica Forum but Were Afraid to Ask". [4] Of the seventy-five people in attendance, about half were protesting the forum.[4] The protest was organized in reaction to Marr's December speech.[4] The forum's supporters responded that the group champions free speech and has nothing to do with Neo-Nazism.[4] One angry and tearful UO student spoke to Valdas Anelauskas, saying that statements he had made in the past had made her feel unsafe.[4] At that point ASUO student body president Emma Kallaway asked the Pacifica Forum members to leave the building.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacifica_Forum

[AlicetheKurious]

Quote from the Pacifica Forum's own website:

Irving was in better form than he was in Eugene last year. I am not a historian, but I do know about two things he talked about: code-breaking and postwar UK government secrecy. In all sorts of details, Irving was scrupulous. He makes mistakes - like saying Britain had a queen during the war - but I didn't hear any evidence of deliberate falsification. He continues to do research into the vast piles of decoded messages from Bletchley Park, England - no honest person could say they are sure he is not telling the truth - unless they are a historian of WWII who can show how Irving is wrong.

The internet antifascists and the protesters outside are not historians, but they have no shame in shouting 'Nazi' and 'Holocaust denier'. Both of these descriptions are lies, pure and simple. They call Irving a 'fraudulent historian', but how would they know? Judging by their comments on Indymedia, they can barely read and write English, and certainly not check thousands of documents in German typed by the employees of Bletchley Park. My point is not that Irving is right - I do not know whether he is right or wrong, so I do not claim to know. His antifascist opponents claim to know something which they do not know - that he is definitely wrong. This means they are lying, even if it turns out that Irving is in error.

The main reason I and the others went was to defy the people who have slandered us on Indymedia and tried to get one of us fired from his job. But as it turned out, I learned something. So we should thank the antifascists for daring us to go. I sometimes wonder if Zionists wonder how useful their useful idiots really are. Link

Reading the Wiki thing and reading what the Pacifica Forum blog itself had to say, shows why it's so important to allow people to speak for themselves, especially on controversial and emotionally explosive issues, rather than have their enemies speak for them. Heck, I wouldn't even let my friends speak for me! Even the closest people to me are not qualified to do so.

Reading this on the blog, I was genuinely reminded of myself when I was a student. Like this kid, I always tried to hear the "other" side -- I went to a university whose administration was unabashedly zionist and took classes with some of the most extremist professors, many of whom were Israeli and for more than a year was sincerely best friends with a former captain in the Israeli army, the daughter of a former Israeli consul. Without that exposure, my convictions would be as fragile as a hot-house flower: ignorance is a very poor basis for building a strong and intelligent, let alone a moral, case. In the same way, any denial of rights to others can never be the basis for one's own rights, and is the farthest thing there is from "anti-fascism".

Indeed, the zionists' essential solipsism is one very important reason for the fatal weakness of the zionist case. Their actions show that they're aware of it, even if they don't want anybody else to know. It's no accident that zionism's defenders are always trying to shut up and shut out their opponents, to maliciously misrepresent their views, and failing that, to threaten them into silence, imprison them, even kill them. Clearly they understand that only when theirs is the only voice, and when they're the deciders of what everybody else can know, say and think, do they have a chance of persuading anybody else. On an equal playing field, their "case" simply falls apart on factual, logical and moral grounds.

[American Dream]

Alice, I think you should remove the link to the Pacifica Forum site. Jeff has said that " Propagation of fascist, neo-Nazi and "white pride" causes, including sympathetically linking to sites which advocate such, will not be permitted. This includes revisionist histories of the Holocaust.".

Even if these people are kinda dishonest about their support for fascist, neo-Nazi and "white pride" causes, you would do us all a favor by not linking to their site.

Anyway, here is more on the Pacifica Forum:

Pacifica Forum draws campus protest

UO officials are re-evaluating their policy of allowing free use of buildings by noncampus organizations

BY MARK BAKER AND GREG BOLT
The Register-Guard

Appeared in print: Saturday, Jan 9, 2010

The young woman, a University of Oregon student who would only give her name as Katie, couldn’t take it anymore. She had to come forward, had to say something. To his face.

“This is not acceptable!” she said more than once to Valdas Anelauskas, tears streaming down her face. “You’re making me feel unsafe.”

She came all the way from the back of the room, the Walnut Room at the UO’s Erb Memorial Union, Friday during the latest Pacifica Forum talk.

She said she had to tell Anelauskas, a Lithuanian native who has described himself as a “white separatist and racialist,” just what she thought of a remark he admits to making during a talk last summer about the late radical feminist and writer, Andrea Dworkin.

Anelauskas had said Dworkin, known for her views that pornography can lead to violence against women, was “too ugly to rape.”

The young woman was joined by several others in Friday’s crowd, most who came to protest the Pacifica Forum, and huddled with her to support her after Anelauskas tried to comfort her by saying, “No, you’re not ugly.”

The exchange, by far the most intense among many heated moments during the discussion and profanity-laced protest that came with it, occurred about an hour into the 90-minute session titled, “Everything You Wanted to Know About Pacifica Forum But Were Afraid to Ask.”

The confrontation is the latest chapter involving the controversial group that has UO officials examining its policy over free meeting space for noncampus organizations. The Pacifica Forum has been allowed to gather on campus because its founder, 94-year-old Orval Etter, is a retired UO public policy professor.

Friday’s protest was organized after opponents were riled by a Dec. 11 Pacifica Forum talk by Springfield resident Jimmy Marr, in which Marr is said to have given the Nazi salute, “Sieg heil!” Dressed in full Scottish regalia on Friday, Marr mockingly stood and gave the salute over and over to protesters.

At least half of the 75 in attendance Friday were there to protest the Pacifica Forum, named as one of 926 American “hate groups” last year by the Southern Poverty Law Center. The protesters held signs that said, “Pacifica Forum — Nazi Dupes,” “No Platform for Fascism” and “Hate Speech is not Free Speech.”

After witnessing the female student’s tears and anger, UO student body president Emma Kallaway asked the Pacifica Forum members to leave the EMU.

“I want our women to feel safe,” Kallaway said. “I don’t want you here.”

Kallaway said the EMU is home to several diverse students group such as the UO’s Black Student Union, Jewish Student Union and the school’s Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Queer group. Kallaway said she has received lots of complaints about Pacifica Forum talks and has approached UO President Richard Lariviere’s office about getting them moved to another building or off campus completely.

“It’s not appropriate for them to be in this building,” Kallaway said.

Anelauskas and another group member, Billy Rojas, who led the meeting, reiterated several times during Friday’s meeting that Pacifica Forum is a “free speech group” that has nothing to do with neo-Nazism.

Anelauskas, who said his daughter attends the UO, said a university is a place for the “free exchange of ideas,” regardless of whether one finds them offensive.

As a result of the uproar over Marr’s talk, UO administrators are reassessing the policy that allows retired professors to book space for public events.

Speakers at Pacifica Forum events address a range of topics, from environmental issues to politics. But in addition to Marr, whose talk was affiliated with the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement and titled “An insider’s view of America’s radical right,” the group also has invited controversial speakers such as Mark Weber and David Long, who question aspects of the Holocaust.

http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/si ... -group.csp

[Sounder]

Sounder wrote:

If the ADL is so bad to you, then why do you so closely follow and use their methods?

AD wrote....
Well, I'll just say that I very much don't agree, and let it go at that for the moment.

Wow, what an erudite response. Of course you ‘very much don’t agree’ and of course you would like to let it go for the moment. But this is a different moment so try this. After all if you did give consideration the similarity in tactics between you and ADL you might have to reconsider the validity of your personal identity. And the American Dream cannot handle that, can it?

Feel free to ignore the following, but here it is in as simple a form as I can muster.

Both of you attempt to distract focus away from an actual nexus of bad deed doers and towards sets of marginalized folk. Then you consider that if these folks can only be marginalized further maybe then all the problems of this world will be solved. And as another plus, because these folk are so odious, you can slander by association anyone that says anything similar to part of the stuff that comes out of these odious people’s mouths.

So here’s the thing AD, you have no standing or business to insinuate that Alice ‘sounds’ like Nazis. In this thread alone Alice riffed on 8-bit’s observation about similar feelings shared by very different mental types. Her post was rich in observation, reflection and positive advice. This can be compared to your literary output which mostly comes down to; I mostly disagree with this (sometimes you go with the extreme and say, I very much don’t agree, Oh dear, your strength makes me faint) or, well I don’t really come here for conversation or, that’s a strawman or, I don’t have much time right now, gotta run.

Some day AD, you might want to step back and wonder why you have these limits in alliteration and a near blindness in regard to any acknowledged value in the writing of others. But don’t do it anytime to soon, cause it’s nice you are willing to be a strawman that’s so easy to knock down.

Alice wrote….

Furthermore, by leaving its ghetto, the Left becomes available as one of many political alternatives for individuals who are not happy with the Right but are repulsed by the insularity and ideological squabbles and impotence of the Left. This benefits society by increasing the choices available, and it benefits the Left by exposing it to the real concerns of real people. I think in itself this will help to break down a lot of the seemingly insurmountable barriers that have been deliberately erected between subgroups in society in order to fragment potential opposition. Simply by transforming Black and White people into valuable potential allies on specific issues that matter to both, you're eating away at the "us vs them" mentality.

[American Dream]

Sounder wrote:

Both of you attempt to distract focus away from an actual nexus of bad deed doers and towards sets of marginalized folk.

Huh???

This is coming from somebody who seems to think that the Militia Movement and the Oath Keepers are A-OK?

And are saying Nazis and other white supremacists are the marginalized folks and that they are not bad deed doers?

If so, I agree to a certain point, but I significantly disagree, also...

[Sounder]

you are so funny AD, I mean funny haha not funny peculiar.

I could have written that response for you. Now let’s see, insinuate by association and maybe a little reading something in that was never there. That should do for now. Fancy that, just like ADL again. You en old dog AD.

Here I will try to keep it simple.

Just because I think you are an asshat and am willing to tell you this does not mean that I in any way endorse the Oath Keepers the Militia Movement or anyone else you care to put forward as a big bad threat to civilization. But whatever, you just keep on going around telling others that sounder thinks Oath Keepers are A-OK. Maybe you and VM could do some 'projects' together.

Second point; Bad deeds and odious people go together so of course Nazis do bad deeds. Sheesh, there cannot be any 'real' need to explain this, can there be? Bad deeds of marginal people have less impact that does the activities of say; any one of the tentacles of the octopus, let alone the whole thing.

wrote...

Huh???

This is coming from somebody who seems to think that the Militia Movement and the Oath Keepers are A-OK?

And are saying Nazis and other white supremacists are the marginalized folks and that they are not bad deed doers?

If so, I agree to a certain point, but I significantly disagree, also...

Anyway AD, no worries cause I think you are not a human being at all. I'm thinking you are only a beta version of a NSA counterinsurgency webbot. The last sentence gave it away.







Just kidding AD, but you do seem to be an asshat. Thanks just the same, you're awesome.



By the by, you might want to check yourself on that passive aggressive thingy, it’s kind of leaking through. (or maybe the whiz kids could tweak your program) ((Then I would really be in a pickle, because if you change I will see you as a program but if you don't change I may suspect that you are human, and now my head is really spinning, OH, OH, its working, send word back to computer central immediately, Hah, those 'bloggers' are such easy pickings.

[American Dream]

Sounder, today Jeff reminded me of a part of the guidelines which I think are very important:

Suggesting a poster is purposefully spreading disinformation is not permitted. The charge or insinuation of "disinfo agent" can almost never be proven, and it poisons and often ends the discourse. If you have evidence that a poster is a disinfo agent, IM me with it.

Please refrain from personal attacks, and let's try to keep arguments issue-based.

I would be willing to work on our interactions to better fulfill these principles.

Would you?

[Sounder]

I'll be happy to when or if you stop twisting what other people say. Till then, you will know what I think of you although I will attempt to express these opinions with style rather that vitriol. That is the best you can hope for.

OK -you, mister rule appealing rebel you.

After all it would be a little odd if you did your inuendo and slander, and then not be called a creep or something worse for doing it.

You stop, I stop.

Oh yeah, and all that crap propaganda you post also makes you look like an asshat.

Just trying to help, public service an all.

[American Dream]

Sounder, that doesn't give me enough clear and specific information to work with.

Can you give tell something more concrete that would help me figure out what specifically you are asking for?

[Sounder]

AD wrote...

Sounder, that doesn't give me enough clear and specific information to work with.

I know, because you are a webbot; -you can never get enough information or clarity.

Can you give tell something more concrete that would help me figure out what specifically you are asking for?

Gee AD, I cannot imagine saying it any simpler, but because I have the patience of Job I will give it one more shot.

When you say;

This is coming from somebody who seems to think that the Militia Movement and the Oath Keepers are A-OK?

I resent you connecting me to people that I do not connect with by word or deed.

And are (you) saying Nazis and other white supremacists are the marginalized folks and that they are not bad deed doers?

The innuendo of the second sentence continues the guilt mongering by associating Nazis and a asserted endorsement of Oath Keepers. And its flourish is to assert that I would suggest that Nazis are ‘not bad deed doers’. Boy that’s just great, it’s probably on my permanent record now, sounder says that Nazis are not bad deed doers. Thanks AD, you passive aggressive freak. And yes I am restraining myself from personal attacks. But the fact remains, you twist words and attribute things to me that are not mine, then you can expect to be called an asshat or worse.

Thank-you very much for your time and have a good day.

[American Dream]

Sounder-

I am making you a good faith offer to try to find a way that we can treat each other with respect. What I'm getting back from you is a stream of vitriol and sarcasm that makes me think there is so little good will on your part that it's doubtful this could succeed. I'm really wondering if all you want to do is dump on me, and so I shouldn't even try to change things.

Here's the bottom-line: I'm not going to stop disagreeing with Alice or plenty of other people on certain issues, and there's always going to be people I won't agree with here. I do have my beliefs- some will change over time. A lot won't.

I highly doubt that I'm suddenly going to start agreeing with you on everything. What I am willing to do is to make every effort possible to not have it be so personally provocative, and to work towards having our differences and agreements be more issue-based instead.

I'm basically undecided about whether to write you off completely, and quit trying to have conversations with you, or not. What I want to know is whether I actually should be trusting of your having any intentions in good faith to treat me differently, to treat me with more respect. To do that, I'm asking what your bottom-line is in terms of what you need, and I want you to be as clear as possible- because that 's what I can work with to make my decision.

What have you got to say about this?

A.D.

[Sounder]

redundant questioner wrote...

What have you got to say about this?

Oh dear me, you are a piece of work AD.

[AlicetheKurious]

AD wrote...

Sounder, that doesn't give me enough clear and specific information to work with.

I know, because you are a webbot; -you can never get enough information or clarity.

Sounder, I swear, and I'm not joking here, I've seriously considered the possibility that AD is in fact some sort of mechanical post-generating device. I still can't quite discount it, though I have no idea if that kind of technology exists. Or perhaps there's a human/machine partnership going on there, like human pilots switching on the auto pilot to get some shut-eye. Some of his responses don't ring quite human, if you get my drift, and his repertoire seems oddly limited and inflexible, incapable of apprehending nuance or complex ideas. For example, in response to any attempt to venture beyond a very cold and simplistic Bad vs Good in relation to a limited subcategory of stimuli, invariably he will issue almost identically worded posts with a maddeningly robotic repetitiveness, that either translate as: "Does Not Compute, Does Not Compute" even when the points made seem obvious to (human) others (regardless of whether they agree or disagree), or he will repeat a very simplistic and somehow machine-like version of the malicious distortions and insinuations that are a signature of groups like the ADL and the SPLC, bizarrely followed by equally machine-like disclaimers that "he does not agree" with the ADL and the SPCL, followed in turn by yet another robotic imitation of those very groups. It's very strange.

Anyway, glad I'm not the only one who noticed the clicking sounds, even if you were only joking.

[American Dream]

Whatever, you two.

Sounder, good to know where you stand. I'll stop wasting my breath.

Alice, none of your personal attacks makes you any more right about the Pacifica Forum, or about bringing Nazis into Palestinian solidarity work. I think you know this.

[AlicetheKurious]

I rest my case.