KTLA: Director Tony Scott jumps from San Pedro Bridge

[JackRiddler]

All discourse is attempted mind control.

Wow. We'd better stop then.

[compared2what?]

Can you elaborate how you think CoS could have played a role, I never read that Scott has anything to do with them beyond a friendship with Tom but I think this is something to look in to for sure glad you brought it up.

I have no idea WHY they would do it, it's just not that hard for me to imagine the Co$ being capable of implanting a hypnotic suggestion to commit suicide.

What is the church if not a giant, super rich mind control cult? Not even the IRS is beyond their reach.

The mind control part of it only applies to their members and is very time-and-effort intensive, even then. Because they don't really have that kind of superpower. They just say they do.

I mean, if they'd been able to mind-control the IRS, they wouldn't have had to expend all that energy and money blitzing it with litigation and stalking its employees and so forth.

A comment to the Loren Coleman piece Elfie linked to is interesting:

Tony Scott was connected to the Cruise/Kidman union through Days of Thunder.

Stanley Kubrick was connected to the Cruise/Kidman union in Eyes wide shut.

With paranoid Cruise going through a divorce AGAIN,secrets must be hushed AGAIN,and maybe Tony met the ghost of L Ron H.

Maybe. It's not typically the kind of thing they do, though. There's nothing in it for them. That's not their style.

[jingofever]

I have no idea WHY they would do it, it's just not that hard for me to imagine the Co$ being capable of implanting a hypnotic suggestion to commit suicide.

Is that really possible? I have trouble believing that one of the most insidious weapons in the world is five minutes with a pocketwatch.

[dbcooper41]

has anyone seen the names of the supposed witnesses? i can only find 2, david silva, who has already done interviews with people mag and the la times, and who seems to be pretty difficult to id specifically.
the other is eric s brill, 59, retired oil trader who appears to be quite well off.
he had a nice old house in bedford ny that he rented out for films and photo shoots. the movie "search and destroy" is one example.
one nice little factoid is that eric s brill has a brother named rob brill.
the same rob brill was a drummer for a band called "berlin".
berlin had a number one hit with a song called "take my breath away".
"take my breath away" was of course from the movie "top gun".
as some of you may know top gun was directed by the late tony scott.

small world after all.

[Nordic]

The Hunger was so far ahead of its time its ridiculous.

Enemy of the State was as well, in so many ways. All the surviellance technology on display in that movie turns out to be real, and every bit as insidious as depicted in the film.

Why does anyone think a 68 year old guy would have to be "mind controlled" into doing such a thing? It would be so very easy to coerce such a fellow into doing this -- you simply tell him its either him, or his 2 beautiful children who must go. That's a no brainer. Would explain why he looked scared and desperate. Who wouldn't choose ad he did if forced to make that choice? The people in question are easily that evil -we know they are because they've done it before. Those Abu Ghraib photographs and videos we were never allowed to see, for instance. And the "brain cancer" story would fit right in as well - I'm sure they'd tell him "don't worry, we'll tell the world you had inoperable nrain cancer heh heh".

I don't know what happened, but if he was researching the drone program it's quite easy to speculate that he uncovered, and planned to reveal, details hitherto unknown, and was excited about it, only to run into some folks who forced him to forget all about it.

Who was that screenwriter who had been researching something somewhat along the same thematic lines and ended up disappeared and deaf in a canal out near Palmdale? It happened there so why not in this case? I wonder how well Chris McQuarrie is sleeping these days?

[JackRiddler]

Why does anyone think a 68 year old guy would have to be "mind controlled" into doing such a thing? It would be so very easy to coerce such a fellow into doing this -- you simply tell him its either him, or his 2 beautiful children who must go. That's a no brainer. Would explain why he looked scared and desperate. Who wouldn't choose ad he did if forced to make that choice?

At least you're coming up with a scenario that's possible in the real world. We don't have to posit unknown technologies. Now if only there were any reason to think it... Here's a question. Why can't this potentially apply to any and all cases of suicide? Does anyone really kill themselves?

In the continuation, you've decided the suspects are the same people or kind of people in the same kind of institutions who perpetrated torture at Abu Ghraib. Is there a reason for this, however?

How do we know it's not film critics forced to watch and review the two hours of herky-jerky editing in "Man on Fire"? At least I can imagine why they'd hate him, whereas it's very hard to see why anyone at the Pentagon or CIA would.

[sunny]

I have no idea WHY they would do it, it's just not that hard for me to imagine the Co$ being capable of implanting a hypnotic suggestion to commit suicide.

Is that really possible? I have trouble believing that one of the most insidious weapons in the world is five minutes with a pocketwatch.

How hard would it be for these people?

Estabrooks once amused himself during a party by covertly hypnotizing two friends, who were led to believe that the Prime Minister of England had just arrived; Estabrooks’ victims spent an hour conversing with, and even serving drinks to, the esteemed visitor.LINK

But Nordic's point is well taken:

It would be so very easy to coerce such a fellow into doing this -- you simply tell him its either him, or his 2 beautiful children who must go. That's a no brainer. Would explain why he looked scared and desperate. Who wouldn't choose ad he did if forced to make that choice?

[jingofever]

Serving drinks to a Prime Minister and jumping off a bridge, while similar in kind, differ in degree. From what I have read and heard the victim cannot be induced to do anything against their will. In fact I just saw an episode of The Honeymooners which said the same thing. Estabrooks has stories that argue against that but have his results been replicated?

[LilyPatToo]

Was he perhaps taking zolpidem for sleeping problems, like Junior Seaus? Or like John Steele, the businessman/Sunday school teacher who tried to stab his wife and then stabbed himself to death a couple of days ago? The latter article says:

According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, zolpidem, which is sold under several different names, is used in adults for short-term treatment of insomnia. Possible, serious side effects can include “more outgoing or aggressive behavior than normal, confusion, agitation, hallucinations, worsening of depression, and suicidal thoughts or actions.”

If so, it's more than tragic--it's outrageous that people (myself included) are being prescribed a drug this dangerous for problems with sleep. I only took it briefly and it had no effect on suicidal ideation, thank the ghods, since I've battled that since childhood.

LilyPat

[jlaw172364]

@JackRiddler

Nordic's scenario occurred to me as well, however, I must take issue with your "real world technologies" rhetoric.

Unless you possess Ultra-Double-Top-Secret Clearance, you simply don't have access to "real world technologies," because so many of them are either CLASSIFIED by the government, TRADE SECRETS of corporations, or CLASSIFIED TRADE SECRETS of government contractors.

There are hundreds of thousands of these kinds of secrets.

You know how I posit the existence of the technology I described? I look at the declassified record, and then extrapolate.

I bugs, rats, and bulls can be controlled remotely in the declassified record, in all likelihood, so can humans.

But, Nordic's point is well-taken. If a gang of thugs have your family at gunpoint . . . .

Of course, why would you trust the word of a gang of thugs that have your family at gunpoint? They could easily kill them after you kill yourself.

That scenario is another form of mind control, because the thugs manipulate your psychology by presenting you with the ILLUSION of choice and control, when in fact, they are running things the whole time because they have the POWER to renege. People who would threaten and kill your family are not above welching on the deal.

[JackRiddler]

Yes, even if you accept all that as a possibility, why aren't you applying it to the other 15,000 reported suicides every year in this country? (My guess based on old statistics. Feel free to correct.) Why do you pick this case and talk about the possibilities, when there is so little reason, and make up who it must have been, when there is no evidence? Why not all the others? Tony Scott's jump from the bridge got covered, therefore it is suspicious, therefore the scenario that I pull out of hat (possible or not) must be discussed?

[jlaw172364]

"Yes, even if you accept all that as a possibility, why aren't you applying it to the other 15,000 reported suicides every year in this country?

Assuming I read the facts of each of those suicides, many I might be inclined to consider homicides. And of those homicides, a subset might be greater conspiracies, and not just lesser conspiracies, like a spouse wanting to off their partner.

For example, I haven't read anything about the Empire State shooter that leads me to believe it wasn't anything other than a disgruntled former employee killing his boss, followed by a massive NYPD clusterfuck.

The James Holmes scenario, not so much.

(My guess based on old statistics. Feel free to correct.) Why do you pick this case and talk about the possibilities, when there is so little reason, and make up who it must have been, when there is no evidence?

I have no clue who might be behind Tony Scott's death. I merely find it odd and unlikely that someone in his social position would committ suicide in such a difficult, public way. But just because I find it unlikely, doesn't mean that it's impossible. I'm not omniscient, so I'm dealing in probabilities here. That's why I said, it smells, but I don't have a firm solid absolutist opinion, merely a sense that it was improbable, and that maybe there might be an alternative explanation, just like there is FOR A LOT OF CASES.

Why not all the others? Tony Scott's jump from the bridge got covered, therefore it is suspicious, therefore the scenario that I pull out of hat (possible or not) must be discussed?"

It's true that the news coverage invites me to speculate, as opposed to an obituary posted in the back of a newspaper about the following scenario I'm sure has happened on several occasions: a 7-11 clerk nobody cared about, who might have been offed by his employer because he was caught shagging the teenage daughter of said employer (as witnessed on a surveillance camera), with local authorities used as contract labor hitmen (the government wages are low) through longstanding communal ties (the employer and the authorities live in the same, affluent community; the clerk, an immigrant, commutes 1 hour by public transportation from low-incoming housing in a poorer area; he met the teenage daughter because she worked part time at her father's store).


Here's another example: The Death of Sunny Sheu.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/10943-th ... sunny-sheu

Had Sheu not befriended some journalists before he died, he'd just be another statistic that nobody would have ever read about except for a blurb about another mugging victim flashed briefly on the news, like the cops would want you to think.

And, I've had real-life first-hand experiences dealing with parapolitical events, and I know a lot of people who have as well, all of which leades inexorably to the collision that things are rarely as they appear, and that a seamy underbelly exists for everything, whether we like it or not, and it DOESN'T go away just because we stop paying attention because we get distracted by things.

[Nordic]

Yes, even if you accept all that as a possibility, why aren't you applying it to the other 15,000 reported suicides every year in this country? (My guess based on old statistics. Feel free to correct.) Why do you pick this case and talk about the possibilities, when there is so little reason, and make up who it must have been, when there is no evidence? Why not all the others? Tony Scott's jump from the bridge got covered, therefore it is suspicious, therefore the scenario that I pull out of hat (possible or not) must be discussed?

Because, and i thought we had discussed it upthread, that the man was researching the US Military's Assassination By Flying Robot Program and thus could have concievably become a Man Who Knew Too Much.

Right?

People who know too much often suffer from fatal bouts of depression.

[justdrew]

[82_28]

Yes, even if you accept all that as a possibility, why aren't you applying it to the other 15,000 reported suicides every year in this country? (My guess based on old statistics. Feel free to correct.) Why do you pick this case and talk about the possibilities, when there is so little reason, and make up who it must have been, when there is no evidence? Why not all the others? Tony Scott's jump from the bridge got covered, therefore it is suspicious, therefore the scenario that I pull out of hat (possible or not) must be discussed?

Dude. It's the method in which he did it. Nothing in this case is outside the bounds of possibilities just by dint of who it was as more importantly, how he did it. It's as unlikely as it is likely.

Unlikely: Rich dude who has made a bunch films of various propagandistic importance parks car on shoulder of approach to bridge, climbs fence and plummets to his death and:

Likely: Rich dude who has made a bunch films of various propagandistic importance parks car on shoulder of approach to bridge, climbs fence and plummets to his death and:

And, here we are. We're talking about his madness and we're talking about the madness that drove him to do it. We're talking about reports of brain cancer and then vehement denials from family members. We're talking about what a ridiculous way it would be to do it of such means -- in a Prius, no less. The dude wasn't crazy. Something happened. If he wasn't crazy, but was crazy depressed this would be the last way to fucking do it.

Maybe he just did it. Fuck, maybe he even faked his death. None of us are to say, but it will always remain mysterious.