Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby DrEvil » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:39 pm

@lupercal: Have you been reading the "Nasty" thread lately?
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=36172

All of this is from you, today:

"So now you're endorsing America's glorious legacy of racism, genocide and discrimination because you lost an argument? Are you going to post KKK letters next?

Creepy."

----

"that would be you, working overtime to peddle their stupidest pack of lies ever"

----

"Wikipedia was also johnny-on-the-spot with Verbitsky's shit stains, lifted from the Guardian, since "corrected," since removed. The go-to resource for busy ratfuckers,"

----

"So you just discovered anti-Catholic propaganda? This stuff is has been lying around in big stinky piles for centuries and if you like playing in cesspools you're in for good times. Enjoy."

----

"I don't know that I'm defending it, just trying to keep this tiny corner of the screen clear of the horseshit getting fire hosed every which way in this thread for example. And since you asked, sure, I'll be happy to list a few favorites . Hang on.."

That's five posts in a row, with absolutely NO content, just derogatory comments and trolling.
Creepy.
If you disagree so vehemently with Slad, why not refute the arguments instead of acting like a child?
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 4172
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby lupercal » Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:24 pm

^ oh go away. The horse is dead, the links have been posted and explained and explained again, and I consider the case made and closed to all but the trolls who will be flogging this stale menudo from now until doomsday anyway.
...........................

FourthBase wrote:I'm willing to see the great, the good, the mixed, the bad, and the ugly evil about the Catholic church. I'm not the only one so willing. Will you kindly step away from the defensive cannon on the S.S. Catholicism? Let's have it all, all the truth about the church, along the entire continuum of justness and injustice. You got a book or two that epitomizes your individual take on the church? A wikipedia entry, or several?


Okay here's a rough and ready list of 10 arguably Catholic classics anyone on RI might enjoy, a couple of hagiographies but mostly novels with Catholic themes or subjects. Some dates etc from memory:

1. A Man for All Seasons, 1961. Play by Robert Bolt, excellent 1963 film, widely available. Bio of Thomas More, author of Utopia and Chancellor to Henry VIII, executed in 1529 after a lengthy imprisonment and trial. Classic moral agon, great lines.

2. Brian Moore, Catholics: A Novel, 1972. “In the not-too-distant future, the Fourth Vatican Council has abolished private confession, clerical dress, and the Latin Mass, and opened discussions about a merger with Buddhism. Authorities in Rome are embarrassed by publicity surrounding a group of monks who stubbornly celebrate the old Mass in their island abbey off the coast of Ireland... . .” (Amazon description)

3. Graham Greene, The Power and the Glory, 1940. Classic thriller. “In the 1930s in one Mexican state.... The priests have been rounded up and shot by firing squad--save one.... On the verge of reaching a safer region, the whisky priest is repeatedly held back by his vocation, even though he no longer feels fit to perform his rites: "When he was gone it would be as if God in all this space between the sea and the mountains ceased to exist. Wasn't it his duty to stay, even if they despised him … ?" (Amazon).

4. Graham Greene, The End of the Affair, 1951. Short story about moral failing in WWII London, good film version with Julienne Moore.

5. Gustavo Gutiérrez, Las Casas: In Search of the Poor of Jesus Christ, 1973, bio of the extraordinary Bartolomé de Las Casas, bishop of Chiapas and "defender of the indiginas," written by the founder of liberation theology.

6. James Douglass, JFK and the Unspeakable, 2009, detailed account of JFK’s thousand days in office interspersed with healthy doses of Thomas Merton, a mystic and monk who was also whacked.

7. Morris West: Shoes of the Fisherman, amusing 1959 novel about the election of an unlikely pope, made into a popular film with Anthony Quinn.

8. Rumer Godden, In this House of Brede, 1969 novel set in an abbey. Read it long ago, liked it. Basically it’s about nuns.

9. Brian Moore: The Lonely Passion of Judith Hearne, novel and a great film with Maggie Smith. Working class Irish lady’s crisis of faith.

10. Walter Miller, A Canticle for Leibowitz, 1959 sci-fi novel. Really liked this one back in the day. “ A Canticle for Leibowitz opens with the accidental excavation of a holy artifact: a creased, brittle memo scrawled by the hand of the blessed Saint Leibowitz, that reads: "Pound pastrami, can kraut, six bagels--bring home for Emma." To the Brothers of Saint Leibowitz, this sacred shopping list penned by an obscure, 20th-century engineer is a symbol of hope from the distant past, from before the Simplification, the fiery atomic holocaust that plunged the earth into darkness and ignorance.” Great read, very amusing, not overly Catholic, nice Latin flourishes too.

Also:

11. Walker Percy, Love in the Ruins: The Adventures of a Bad Catholic at a Time, 1971 novel. Haven’t read it but it’s well-regarded. “follows the exploits of its flawed hero, Dr. Tom More, a boozing psychiatrist and lapsed Catholic. More has invented the lapsometer - a "stethoscope of the soul" - that enables people to both diagnose and treat their inner demons. ... much of the book traces More's efforts to keep the lapsomoter out of the hands of a government determined to use the lapsometer for its own nefarious purposes. "

12. Cormac McCarthy, The Road, 2006. Ditto, highly regarded. “a frightening apocalyptic vision, narrated by a nameless man, one of the few survivors of an unspecified civilization-ending catastrophe. He and his young son are trekking along a treacherous highway, starving and freezing, trying to avoid roving cannibal armies.”

Hope that's what you had in mind! :thumbsup
User avatar
lupercal
 
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:06 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby FourthBase » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:05 pm

Excellent, thanks lupercal! I especially like the Douglass/Merton inclusion.
For extra measure, how about a list of the Top Ten or Twenty Catholics Ever?

I've got a few in mind. I'm partial to Franciscans. In no order, with no definitiveness:

Francis of Assisi (the Babe Ruth here, the indisputable GOAT, imo)
Jacques Ellul
Thomas Merton
Pope Clement XIV
G.K. Chesterton
Nicolas Copernicus
Frank Capra
Leonardo da Vinci
John F. Kennedy (or Robert F., if you prefer)
Pablo Picasso (or Matisse, if you prefer)
Michelangelo
Gregor Mendel
Simon Bolivar
Hugo Chavez
Thomas Pynchon
Alexander Pope
William Shakespeare
Titian
J.R.R. Tolkien
Oscar Wilde (?)
James Joyce
Renoir (both of them)
Galileo Galilei
Graham Greene
Ernest Hemingway
F. Scott Fitzgerald
Geoffrey Chaucer
Jack Kerouac
Marshall McLuhan
Flannery O'Connor
Charles Baudelaire
Blaise Pascal
Dante Alighieri
Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra
Gerard Manley Hopkins
Helen Prejean
Oscar Schindler
Elisabeth Hesselblad
Ti-Grace Atkinson (probably)
Joan of Arc
Teresa of Avila
Many, many, many saints
A laughably large number of other artists, thinkers, scientists, leaders, etc.

Honorable mention: Bill Murray, lol.
Oh, and: Michael Moore, Stephen Colbert, Conan O'Brien, Jimmy Kimmel...even Babe Ruth himself!

Well, I guess it might be more appropriately a Top One Hundred or One Thousand list.
No, not all of these figures were permanently, indisputably Catholic.
Some of them may have even challenged/opposed the Church.
(Including the GOAT!)

But, once a Catholic, always a Catholic, in some way.
Last edited by FourthBase on Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
“Joy is a current of energy in your body, like chlorophyll or sunlight,
that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
User avatar
FourthBase
 
Posts: 7057
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 4:41 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby lupercal » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:17 pm

FourthBase wrote:William Shakespeare


yep :thumbsup
User avatar
lupercal
 
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:06 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby DrEvil » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:02 pm

Short version: It's not your side of the argument, but the way you present it (as usual).

"Are you going to post KKK letters next? Creepy."

"... peddle their stupidest pack of lies ever"

"Verbitsky's shit stains ..... The go-to resource for busy ratfuckers,"

"... big stinky piles ... playing in cesspools ..."

"... horseshit getting fire hosed every which way in this thread ..."


I'd rather associate with ratfuckers than a misogynistic, homophobic, ritually cannibalistic and child-fucking death cult.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 4172
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:05 pm

The teaching authority and slavery
362 AD

The local Council at Gangra in Asia Minor excommunicates anyone encouraging a slave to despise his master or withdraw from his service. (Became part of Church Law from the 13th century).

354-430 AD

St. Augustine teaches that the institution of slavery derives from God and is beneficial to slaves and masters. (Quoted by many later Popes as proof of "Tradition".

650 AD

Pope Martin I condemns people who teach slaves about freedom or who encourage them to escape.

1089 AD

The Synod of Melfi under Pope Urban II imposed slavery on the wives of priests. (Became part of Church Law from the 13th century).

1179 AD

The Third Lateran Council imposed slavery on those helping the Saracens.

1226 AD

The legitimacy of slavery is incorporated in the Corpus Iuris Canonici, promulgated by Pope Gregory IX which remained official law of the Church until 1913. Canon lawyers worked out four just titles for holding slaves: slaves captured in war, persons condemned to slavery for a crime; persons selling themselves into slavery, including a father selling his child; children of a mother who is a slave.

1224-1274 AD

St.Thomas Aquinas defends slavery as instituted by God in punishment for sin, and justified as being part of the ‘right of nations’ and natural law. Children of a slave mother are rightly slaves even though they have not committed personal sin! (Quoted by many later Popes).

1435 AD

Pope Eugenius IV condemns the indiscriminate enslavement of natives in the Canary Islands, but does not condemn slavery as such.

1454 AD

Through the bull Romanus Pontifex, Pope Nicholas V authorises the king of Portugal to enslave all the Saracen and pagan peoples his armies may conquer.

1493 AD

Pope Alexander VI authorises the King of Spain to enslave non-Christians of the Americas who are at war with Christian powers.

1537 AD

Pope Paul III condemns the indiscriminate enslavement of Indians in South America.

1548 AD

The same Pope Paul III confirms the right of clergy and laity to own slaves.

1639 AD

Pope Urban VIII denounces the indiscriminate enslavement of Indians in South America, without denying the four ‘just titles’ for owning slaves.

1741 AD

Pope Benedict XIV condemns the indiscriminate enslavement of natives in Brazil, but does not denounce slavery as such, nor the importation of slaves from Africa.

1839 AD

Pope Gregory XVI condemns the international negro slave trade, but does not question slavery as such, nor the domestic slave trade.

1866 AD

The Holy Office in an instruction signed by Pope Pius IX declares: Slavery itself, considered as such in its essential nature, is not at all contary to the natural and divine law, and there can be several just titles of slavery, and these are referred to by approved theologians and commentators of the sacred canons … It is not contrary to the natural and divine law for a slave to be sold, bought, exchanged or given".


The turn around

1888 AD

Pope Leo III condemns slavery in more general terms, and supports the anti-slavery movement.

1918 AD

The new Code of Canon Law promulgated by Pope Benedictus XV condemns ‘selling any person as a slave’. (There is no condemnation of ‘owning’ slaves, however).

1965 AD

The Second Vatican Council defends basic human rights and denounces all violations of human integrity, including slavery (Gaudium et Spes, no 27,29,67).

Table prepared by John Wijngaards

Data from: J.F.Maxwell, ‘The Development of Catholic Doctrine concerning Slavery’, World Jurist 11 (1969-70) pp. 147-192 and 291-324.

The Bull Romanus Pontifex (Nicholas V), January 8, 1455.

Background

The kingdoms of Portugal and Castile had been jockeying for position and possession of colonial territories along the African coast for more than a century prior to Columbus' "discovery" of lands in the western seas. On the theory that the Pope was an arbitrator between nations, each kingdom had sought and obtained Papal bulls at various times to bolster its claims, on the grounds that its activities served to spread Christianity.

The bull Romanus Pontifex is an important example of the Papacy's claim to spiritual lordship of the whole world and of its role in regulating relations among Christian princes and between Christians and "unbelievers" ("heathens" and "infidels"). This bull became the basis for Portugal's later claim to lands in the "new world," a claim which was countered by Castile and the bull Inter caetera in 1493.

An English translation of Romanus Pontifex is reproduced below, as published in European Treaties bearing on the History of the United States and its Dependencies to 1648, Frances Gardiner Davenport, editor, Carnegie Institution of Washington, 1917, Washington, D.C., at pp. 20-26. The original text in Latin is in the same volume, at pp. 13-20.

English Translation

Nicholas, bishop, servant of the servants of God. for a perpetual remembrance.

The Roman pontiff, successor of the key-bearer of the heavenly kingdom and vicar of Jesus Christ, contemplating with a father's mind all the several climes of the world and the characteristics of all the nations dwelling in them and seeking and desiring the salvation of all, wholesomely ordains and disposes upon careful deliberation those things which he sees will be agreeable to the Divine Majesty and by which he may bring the sheep entrusted to him by God into the single divine fold, and may acquire for them the reward of eternal felicity, and obtain pardon for their souls. This we believe will more certainly come to pass, through the aid of the Lord, if we bestow suitable favors and special graces on those Catholic kings and princes, who, like athletes and intrepid champions of the Christian faith, as we know by the evidence of facts, not only restrain the savage excesses of the Saracens and of other infidels, enemies of the Christian name, but also for the defense and increase of the faith vanquish them and their kingdoms and habitations, though situated in the remotest parts unknown to us, and subject them to their own temporal dominion, sparing no labor and expense, in order that those kings and princes, relieved of all obstacles, may be the more animated to the prosecution of so salutary and laudable a work.

We have lately heard, not without great joy and gratification, how our beloved son, the noble personage Henry, infante of Portugal, uncle of our most dear son in Christ, the illustrious Alfonso, king of the kingdoms of Portugal and Algarve, treading in the footsteps of John, of famous memory, king of the said kingdoms, his father, and greatly inflamed with zeal for the salvation of souls and with fervor of faith, as a Catholic and true soldier of Christ, the Creator of all things, and a most active and courageous defender and intrepid champion of the faith in Him, has aspired from his early youth with his utmost might to cause the most glorious name of the said Creator to be published, extolled, and revered throughout the whole world, even in the most remote and undiscovered places, and also to bring into the bosom of his faith the perfidious enemies of him and of the life-giving Cross by which we have been redeemed, namely the Saracens and all other infidels whatsoever, [and how] after the city of Ceuta, situated in Africa, had been subdued by the said King John to his dominion, and after many wars had been waged, sometimes in person, by the said infante, although in the name of the said King John, against the enemies and infidels aforesaid, not without the greatest labors and expense, and with dangers and loss of life and property, and the slaughter of very many of their natural subjects, the said infante being neither enfeebled nor terrified by so many and great labors, dangers, and losses, but growing daily more and more zealous in prosecuting this his so laudable and pious purpose, has peopled with orthodox Christians certain solitary islands in the ocean sea, and has caused churches and other pious places to be there founded and built, in which divine service is celebrated. Also by the laudable endeavor and industry of the said infante, very many inhabitants or dwellers in divers islands situated in the said sea, coming to the knowledge of the true God, have received holy baptism, to the praise and glory of God, the salvation of the souls of many, the propagation also of the orthodox faith, and the increase of divine worship.

Moreover, since, some time ago, it had come to the knowledge of the said infante that never, or at least not within the memory of men, had it been customary to sail on this ocean sea toward the southern and eastern shores, and that it was so unknown to us westerners that we had no certain knowledge of the peoples of those parts, believing that he would best perform his duty to God in this matter, if by his effort and industry that sea might become navigable as far as to the Indians who are said to worship the name of Christ, and that thus he might be able to enter into relation with them, and to incite them to aid the Christians against the Saracens and other such enemies of the faith, and might also be able forthwith to subdue certain gentile or pagan peoples, living between, who are entirely free from infection by the sect of the most impious Mahomet, and to preach and cause to be preached to them the unknown but most sacred name of Christ, strengthened, however, always by the royal authority, he has not ceased for twenty-five years past to send almost yearly an army of the peoples of the said kingdoms with the greatest labor, danger, and expense, in very swift ships called caravels, to explore the sea and coast lands toward the south and the Antarctic pole. And so it came to pass that when a number of ships of this kind had explored and taken possession of very many harbors, islands, and seas, they at length came to the province of Guinea, and having taken possession of some islands and harbors and the sea adjacent to that province, sailing farther they came to the mouth of a certain great river commonly supposed to be the Nile, and war was waged for some years against the peoples of those parts in the name of the said King Alfonso and of the infante, and in it very many islands in that neighborhood were subdued and peacefully possessed, as they are still possessed together with the adjacent sea. Thence also many Guineamen and other negroes, taken by force, and some by barter of unprohibited articles, or by other lawful contract of purchase, have been sent to the said kingdoms. A large number of these have been converted to the Catholic faith, and it is hoped, by the help of divine mercy, that if such progress be continued with them, either those peoples will be converted to the faith or at least the souls of many of them will be gained for Christ.

But since, as we are informed, although the king and infante aforesaid (who with so many and so great dangers, labors, and expenses, and also with loss of so many natives of their said kingdoms, very many of whom have perished in those expeditions, depending only upon the aid of those natives, have caused those provinces to be explored and have acquired and possessed such harbors, islands, and seas, as aforesaid, as the true lords of them), fearing lest strangers induced by covetousness should sail to those parts, and desiring to usurp to themselves the perfection, fruit, and praise of this work, or at least to hinder it, should therefore, either for the sake of gain or through malice, carry or transmit iron, arms, wood used for construction, and other things and goods prohibited to be carried to infidels or should teach those infidels the art of navigation, whereby they would become more powerful and obstinate enemies to the king and infante, and the prosecution of this enterprise would either be hindered, or would perhaps entirely fail, not without great offense to God and great reproach to all Christianity, to prevent this and to conserve their right and possession, [the said king and infante] under certain most severe penalties then expressed, have prohibited and in general have ordained that none, unless with their sailors and ships and on payment of a certain tribute and with an express license previously obtained from the said king or infante, should presume to sail to the said provinces or to trade in their ports or to fish in the sea, [although the king and infante have taken this action, yet in time it might happen that persons of other kingdoms or nations, led by envy, malice, or covetousness, might presume, contrary to the prohibition aforesaid, without license and payment of such tribute, to go to the said provinces, and in the provinces, harbors, islands, and sea, so acquired, to sail, trade, and fish; and thereupon between King Alfonso and the infante, who would by no means suffer themselves to be so trifled with in these things, and the presumptuous persons aforesaid, very many hatreds, rancors, dissensions, wars, and scandals, to the highest offense of God and danger of souls, probably might and would ensue -- We [therefore] weighing all and singular the premises with due meditation, and noting that since we had formerly by other letters of ours granted among other things free and ample faculty to the aforesaid King Alfonso -- to invade, search out, capture, vanquish, and subdue all Saracens and pagans whatsoever, and other enemies of Christ wheresoever placed, and the kingdoms, dukedoms, principalities, dominions, possessions, and all movable and immovable goods whatsoever held and possessed by them and to reduce their persons to perpetual slavery, and to apply and appropriate to himself and his successors the kingdoms, dukedoms, counties, principalities, dominions, possessions, and goods, and to convert them to his and their use and profit -- by having secured the said faculty, the said King Alfonso, or, by his authority, the aforesaid infante, justly and lawfully has acquired and possessed, and doth possess, these islands, lands, harbors, and seas, and they do of right belong and pertain to the said King Alfonso and his successors, nor without special license from King Alfonso and his successors themselves has any other even of the faithful of Christ been entitled hitherto, nor is he by any means now entitled lawfully to meddle therewith -- in order that King Alfonso himself and his successors and the infante.may be able the more zealously to pursue and may pursue this most pious and noble work, and most worthy of perpetual remembrance (which, since the salvation of souls, increase of the faith, and overthrow of its enemies may be procured thereby, we regard as a work wherein the glory of God, and faith in Him, and His commonwealth, the Universal Church, are concerned) in proportion as they, having been relieved of all the greater obstacles, shall find themselves supported by us and by the Apostolic See with favors and graces -- we, being very fully informed of all and singular the premises, do, motu proprio, not at the instance of King Alfonso or the infante, or on the petition of any other offered to us on their behalf in respect to this matter, and after mature deliberation, by apostolic authority, and from certain knowledge, in the fullness of apostolic power, by the tenor of these presents decree and declare that the aforesaid letters of faculty (the tenor whereof we wish to be considered as inserted word for word in these presents, with all and singular the clauses therein contained) are extended to Ceuta and to the aforesaid and all other acquisitions whatsoever, even those acquired before the date of the said letters of faculty, and to all those provinces, islands, harbors, and seas whatsoever, which hereafter, in the name of the said King Alfonso and of his successors and of the infante, in those parts and the adjoining, and in the more distant and remote parts, can be acquired from the hands of infidels or pagans, and that they are comprehended under the said letters of faculty. And by force of those and of the present letters of faculty the acquisitions already made, and what hereafter shall happen to be acquired, after they shall have been acquired, we do by the tenor of these presents decree and declare have pertained, and forever of right do belong and pertain, to the aforesaid king and to his successors and to the infante, and that the right of conquest which in the course of these letters we declare to be extended from the capes of Bojador and of Não, as far as through all Guinea, and beyond toward that southern shore, has belonged and pertained, and forever of right belongs and pertains, to the said King Alfonso, his successors, and the infante, and not to any others. We also by the tenor of these presents decree and declare that King Alfonso and his successors and the infante aforesaid might and may, now and henceforth, freely and lawfully, in these [acquisitions] and concerning them make any prohibitions, statutes, and decrees whatsoever, even penal ones, and with imposition of any tribute, and dispose and ordain concerning them as concerning their own property and their other dominions. And in order to confer a more effectual right and assurance we do by these presents forever give, grant, and appropriate to the aforesaid King Alfonso and his successors, kings of the said kingdoms, and to the infante, the provinces, islands, harbors, places, and seas whatsoever, how many soever, and of what sort soever they shall be, that have already been acquired and that shall hereafter come to be acquired, and the right of conquest also from the capes of Bojador and of Não aforesaid.

Moreover, since this is fitting in many ways for the perfecting of a work of this kind, we allow that the aforesaid King Alfonso and [his] successors and the infante, as also the persons to whom they, or any one of them, shall think that this work ought to be committed, may (according to the grant made to the said King John by Martin V., of happy memory, and another grant made also to King Edward of illustrious memory, king of the same kingdoms, father of the said King Alfonso, by Eugenius IV., of pious memory, Roman pontiffs, our predecessors) make purchases and sales of any things and goods and victuals whatsoever, as it shall seem fit, with any Saracens and infidels, in the said regions; and also may enter into any contracts, transact business, bargain, buy and negotiate, and carry any commodities whatsoever to the places of those Saracens and infidels, provided they be not iron instruments, wood to be used for construction, cordage, ships, or any kinds of armor, and may sell them to the said Saracens and infidels; and also may do, perform, or prosecute all other and singular things [mentioned] in the premises, and things suitable or necessary in relation to these; and that the same King Alfonso, his successors, and the infante, in the provinces, islands, and places already acquired, and to be acquired by him, may found and [cause to be] founded and built any churches, monasteries, or other pious places whatsoever; and also may send over to them any ecclesiastical persons whatsoever, as volunteers, both seculars, and regulars of any of the mendicant orders (with license, however, from their superiors), and that those persons may abide there as long as they shall live, and hear confessions of all who live in the said parts or who come thither, and after the confessions have been heard they may give due absolution in all cases, except those reserved to the aforesaid see, and enjoin salutary penance, and also administer the ecclesiastical sacraments freely and lawfully, and this we allow and grant to Alfonso himself, and his successors, the kings of Portugal, who shall come afterwards, and to the aforesaid infante. Moreover, we entreat in the Lord, and by the sprinkling of the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, whom, as has been said, it concerneth, we exhort, and as they hope for the remission of their sins enjoin, and also by this perpetual edict of prohibition we more strictly inhibit, all and singular the faithful of Christ, ecclesiastics, seculars, and regulars of whatsoever orders, in whatsoever part of the world they live, and of whatsoever state, degree, order, condition, or pre-eminence they shall be, although endued with archiepiscopal, episcopal, imperial, royal, queenly, ducal, or any other greater ecclesiastical or worldly dignity, that they do not by any means presume to carry arms, iron, wood for construction, and other things prohibited by law from being in any way carried to the Saracens, to any of the provinces, islands, harbors, seas, and places whatsoever, acquired or possessed in the name of King Alfonso, or situated in this conquest or elsewhere, to the Saracens, infidels, or pagans; or even without special license from the said King Alfonso and his successors and the infante, to carry or cause to be carried merchandise and other things permitted by law, or to navigate or cause to be navigated those seas, or to fish in them, or to meddle with the provinces, islands, harbors, seas, and places, or any of them, or with this conquest, or to do anything by themselves or another or others, directly or indirectly, by deed or counsel, or to offer any obstruction whereby the aforesaid King Alfonso and his successors and the infante may be hindered from quietly enjoying their acquisitions and possessions, and prosecuting and carrying out this conquest.

And we decree that whosoever shall infringe these orders [shall incur the following penalties], besides the punishments pronounced by law against those who carry arms and other prohibited things to any of the Saracens, which we wish them to incur by so doing; if they be single persons, they shall incur the sentence of excommunication; if a community or corporation of a city, castle, village, or place, that city, castle, village, or place shall be thereby subject to the interdict; and we decree further that transgressors, collectively or individually, shall not be absolved from the sentence of excommunication, nor be able to obtain the relaxation of this interdict, by apostolic or any other authority, unless they shall first have made due satisfaction for their transgressions to Alfonso himself and his successors and to the infante, or shall have amicably agreed with them thereupon. By [these] apostolic writings we enjoin our venerable brothers, the archbishop of Lisbon, and the bishops of Silves and Ceuta, that they, or two or one of them, by himself, or another or others, as often as they or any of them shall be required on the part of the aforesaid King Alfonso and his successors and the infante or any one of them, on Sundays, and other festival days, in the churches, while a large multitude of people shall assemble there for divine worship, do declare and denounce by apostolic authority that those persons who have been proved to have incurred such sentences of excommunication and interdict, are excommunicated and interdicted, and have been and are involved in the other punishments aforesaid. And we decree that they shall also cause them to be denounced by others, and to be strictly avoided by all, till they shall have made satisfaction for or compromised their transgressions as aforesaid. Offenders are to be held in check by ecclesiastical censure, without regard to appeal, the apostolic constitutions and ordinances and all other things whatsoever to the contrary notwithstanding. But in order that the present letters, which have been issued by us of our certain knowledge and after mature deliberation thereupon, as is aforesaid, may not hereafter be impugned by anyone as fraudulent, secret, or void, we will, and by the authority, knowledge, and power aforementioned, we do likewise by these letters, decree and declare that the said letters and what is contained therein cannot in any wise be impugned, or the effect thereof hindered or obstructed, on account of any defect of fraudulency, secrecy, or nullity, not even from a defect of the ordinary or of any other authority, or from any other defect, but that they shall be valid forever and shall obtain full authority. And if anyone, by whatever authority, shall, wittingly or unwittingly, attempt anything inconsistent with these orders we decree that his act shall be null and void. Moreover, because it would be difficult to carry our present letters to all places whatsoever, we will, and by the said authority we decree by these letters, that faith shall be given as fully and permanently to copies of them, certified under the hand of a notary public and the seal of the episcopal or any superior ecclesiastical court, as if the said original letters were exhibited or shown; and we decree that within two months from the day when these present letters, or the paper or parchment containing the tenor of the same, shall be affixed to the doors of the church at Lisbon, the sentences of excommunication and the other sentences contained therein shall bind all and singular offenders as fully as if these present letters had been made known and presented to them in person and lawfully. Therefore let no one infringe or with rash boldness contravene this our declaration, constitution, gift, grant, appropriation, decree, supplication, exhortation, injunction, inhibition, mandate, and will. But if anyone should presume to do so, be it known to him that he will incur the wrath of Almighty God and of the blessed apostles Peter and Paul. Given at Rome, at Saint Peter's, on the eighth day of January, in the year of the incarnation of our Lord one thousand four hundred and fifty-four, and in the eighth year of our pontificate.

P. de Noxeto.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:10 pm

hey lupie I need a link for this

Image
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:14 pm

This german calendar predicted Pope Benedict's resignation to the exact day. "Holy smokes! Tomorrow I'll quit!"

An editor of The Anomalist [Twitter @anomalistnews] has shared that Imgur is pointing out that a German calendar predicted the resignation down to the exact day. See below.

"Heiliger Strohsocki! Morgen kündige ich!" translates as "Holy smokes! Tomorrow I'll quit!" on the calendar dated Februar 10 Sonntag ("Sunday"). Note that the number "23" denotes "breaking apart" and "28" is the date in February when Benedict XVI's retirement becomes official.

Image
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:51 pm

Will the real ratfuckers please stand up?

John Kelly was 14 years old when, he says, he lost his faith in God.

"I was taken down these stairs. I only had a nightdress on. It was pulled over my head. I was left naked. This 6-foot, 4-inch [tall] religious brother stood on my hands... and another guy had a whip that we made ourselves, with coins in it. And he would run from a distance to flog me," Kelly remembers.

Kelly, now 59, spent much of his childhood living in institutions run by Catholic orders in Ireland. The abuse he remembers most vividly took place at a reformatory in Daingean, in central Ireland.


Carmine Galasso’s ‘Crosses’: Childhoods Robbed by the Church
by The Daily Beast Mar 11, 2013 1:00 AM EDT
Survivors of clergy sex abuse share their stories in 'Crosses,' by Carmine Galasso
As the Vatican’s cardinals descend upon Rome to elect a new pope, the Catholic Church is coming under heavy fire for including several “princes of the church” embroiled in child-abuse scandals, such as Roger Mahony, the former cardinal-archbishop of Los Angeles, who was ousted from office (but not from the conclave) for mishandling numerous allegations of sexual abuse at his diocese. While Mahony and others have been busy fraternizing and tweeting from the Vatican, groups such as SNAP (the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests) are demanding that the Church confront its sordid history of coverups and denials.


Carmine Galasso

In order to give voice to the survivors whose childhoods were wrecked by priests, monks or nuns in power, Carmine Galasso decided to photograph victims of clerical sex abuse and compile their stories in his 2007 book Crosses. Their tales reveal terrible, systemic molestation, violence, and rape by men and women revered as one step below God, who sniffed out the most vulnerable children to target. Almost all of the survivors have had to undergo years of therapy, and speak of crippling feelings of shame, guilt and worthlessness. In contrast to the carnivalesque atmosphere at the Vatican these days, their images and words stand as quiet, damning testimony about a church that desperately needs to change its ways.

Robert Hoatson
Image

Carmine Galasso

As a student at a Catholic high school in New Jersey, Robert Hoatson was singled out by two different brothers who “told me that I was ‘a very cold person’ and that I needed to be ‘warmed up’,” he told Galasso. “I didn’t realize at the time [they were] talking about sexual abuse.” When Hoatson confided in a superior, he says, that man told him that he was being groomed for abuse—then ended up assaulting the teen himself. “For some reason pedophiles have a nose for vulnerable people,” Hoatson said, “and then try and size the kids up and then they make the kill.”

Even as he pursued a career in the clergy, Hoatson spiraled into severe depression, anxiety, and panic. Finally, in 2003, he testified about abuse in the church before the New York State Legislature—and, he says, was promptly fired. Since then, he’s founded an organization to help other survivors of clergy sex abuse. When a child is attacked by a religious leader, he told Galasso, “it is as if God abused the person ... it essentially takes all hope away.”
“They believe they have been abandoned by God, too.”

Sandra Graves

Image
Carmine Galasso

The victims in Sandra Graves’s Catholic elementary school “all seemed to have a specific vulnerability,” she told Galasso. “Either a parent was dead, or a parent was an alcoholic, or emotionally not there, but there was always some sort of vulnerability that they were more likely to be drawn in and need that attention.”

Graves, whose own father died before she was born, told Galasso that she was only 4 years old when a priest started grooming her for molestation. “When you’re raised in the Catholic Church, you’re raised to believe that a priest is truly just one step below God,” she said. “I lived with a lot of shame and a lot of anxiety.” Years later, Graves revealed the abuse to a therapist when she was trying to get pregnant and struggling with intense fears that “I couldn’t protect my children from being molested.” Now, she works as a therapist herself, helping neglected children and families rebuild their lives.

Gregory Valvo
Image

Carmine Galasso

An altar boy in Brooklyn, Gregory Valvo grew up in a loving family and lived “a real dreamy life up until the age of 10 years old, when I was abused.” A priest in his local district liked to invite boys on sleepovers to a country house, Valvo said, where he plied the children with alcohol and forced them to play sexually charged games. “To this day, when I get in a panic mode, I still remember that was the first time I ever had that true feeling of fear,” Valvo told Galasso, recounting a weekend spent at the priest’s retreat. “Those feelings that were created that evening lasted me a lifetime.”

After his grades started slipping and he began acting out, Valvo eventually revealed the abuse to his family. They reported it to the church, Valvo said, but the priest was just quietly transferred to another parish. As an adult, Valvo has been wracked with anxiety about how many other children may have been abused by the same priest over the years—and has devoted himself to working with SNAP to be “an instrument for someone’s healing.”

“I’m proud that I can sit here and talk because, you know, a lot of victims of sexual abuse kill themselves, or kill themselves in many ways: suicide, drugs, whatever it might be,” he told Galasso. “A lot of people don’t make it to speak about this.”

Michael Johnson

Image
Carmine Galasso

The son of faithful Michigan Catholics—which included members of the clergy—Michael Johnson told Galasso that he was physically and sexually abused by a nun from the age of 10 at his Catholic boarding school. “I was embarrassed to talk about this to anyone,” he said. When the nun dared to slap him in front of his mother, Johnson says, his parents confronted the school's administration. But the next year, the nun's attacks escalated—and, after trying to run away, Johnson was expelled from the academy.

“I developed a way of not feeling. I just don’t feel anything. And alcohol and drugs really helped me with that,” Johnson told Galasso. “Today, being sober 16 years, I can still turn on and off that switch of not feeling ... It’s devastated my life in so many ways with relationships; I don’t trust people to this day.”

“I can’t hardly believe that another human being would do that to a little kid.”

Lynn Woolfolk

Image
Carmine Galasso

Adopted into a devoutly Catholic family in Missouri, Lynn Woolfolk knew his parents “believed the priest was above anything next to God…when he would come to pick me up, there were no questions asked.” Woolfolk told Galasso that the priest started by fondling him as a young boy, which escalated to rape by the time he was 12. “As a child, and still to this day, I have a problem trusting people. I never allow anybody to get too close to me for fear that they will violate my trust,” Woolfolk said. “I always felt that I wasn’t worth anything.”

Later, when the priest was eventually put on trial for abuse, Woolfolk testified against him—and his tormentor was found guilty, despite a concerted defense by the church. “In the archdiocese, unfortunately, what I’ve learned is, they don’t listen to people—regular, everyday people like me,” Woolfolk said. “They listen to lawsuits and attorneys.” Still, Woolfolk has struggled with decades of fallout from the abuse—for years, he told Galasso, he would “look in the mirror and not see anything or just feel like it was a disgrace, or, you know, [that it] was my fault. But [I’ve] come to the realization at 44 that I am somebody [and can] love myself, that I am worthy … It’s almost scary to try to feel good about myself because it’s still that guilt that I did something wrong. But my therapist keeps telling me, ‘You didn’t do anything wrong.’”
“And I’m getting there. I’m trying to.”

Bill Gately
Image

Carmine Galasso

Thirty years after Bill Gately was abused as a teen by a priest who would regularly come through town and stay with his family, his father asked him, ‘Why didn’t you tell me?’ “I said, ‘because you never would have believed me,’” Gately recounted to Galasso “And he said, ‘You’re right.’”

“My parents were very enthusiastic about him … because all my life, they wanted me to be a priest,” Gately said. The abuse left him tortured by shame and guilt. “At the age of 17 I wondered what it would be like to be dead, if being dead would be better.”

Eventually, Gately tracked down his abuser—by then, married with a family of his own—and says the man admitted to him that he’d molested other children abroad. “The damage that had been done to my soul and my psyche is permanent,” Gately told Galasso of the confrontation, “but it would no longer be controlled by the thought of him.”

Johnny Vega
Image

Carmine Galasso

A New Jersey native, Johnny Vega told Galasso that he was an altar boy when he was first raped by a priest and later by a deacon. His family, he said, “had no idea what was being done to me … I didn’t want to say anything because I was too scared.” His life became a morass of anger and self-destruction: suicide attempts, gang activity.

Finally, when the Boston scandal broke in 2000, Vega began to confront his past and question whether his friends and fellow altar boys had also suffered in silence. “Sexual abuse, especially by a priest, I don’t think there’s any worse sin in the world bigger than that,” Vega said. “The first time I was able to drive to the church was one of the scariest moments because of what happened to me—the horror in there.”

Patricia Anne Cahill
Image

Carmine Galasso

The child of a broken home filled with alcoholism and abuse, Patricia Anne Cahill told Galasso that a priest began to molest her as a very young child. “I was told it was my fault,” she said. “I left my body that day. I’ve been trying to get back into my body ever since. I learned how to dissociate. I learned how to abandon myself, and I learned how to please another person all at the expense of myself.” Despite “many attempts to get help” and warning signs such as a sudden change in her ability to speak and unexplained medical problems, Cahill says, the abuse continued. Later, she was abused by a nun; after she told her family about the attacks, she says, they ostracized her.

“I want my life back. I want my childhood returned. I want my innocence back. I want to learn what it’s like to feel alive. I’ve been dead for a long time,” she told Galasso. “What do I see when I look inside of myself? I see someone who has lost so much, someone who is so incredibly broken and wounded.”
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:41 pm

Perhaps it is time Catholics forced the leaders of their church to deal with a history of institutional racism that endures, if the church is truly to live up to its fine words. Apologies are not sufficient, no matter how abject. What is demanded is an acknowledgment of the church's political power and moral culpability, with all the material and legal implications that come with it.

For Rwandans, the pope's apology must be unbearable

If sexual abuse in Ireland warrants his contrition, what contempt is shown by the Vatican's silence over its role in genocide

Martin Kimani
The Guardian, Sunday 28 March 2010

If you are an Irish Catholic, and have suffered sexual abuse at the hands of a priest, you were recently read a letter from Pope Benedict that tells you: "You have suffered grievously and I am truly sorry. I know that nothing can undo the wrong you have endured. Your trust has been betrayed and your dignity has been violated."

For any practising Catholic in Rwanda, this letter must be unbearable. For it tells you how little you mean to the Vatican. Fifteen years ago, tens of thousands of Catholics were hacked to death inside churches. Sometimes priests and nuns led the slaughter. Sometimes they did nothing while it progressed. The incidents were not isolated. Nyamata, Ntarama, Nyarubuye, Cyahinda, Nyange, and Saint Famille were just a few of the churches that were sites of massacres.

To you, Catholic survivor of genocide in Rwanda, the Vatican says that those priests, those bishops, those nuns, those archbishops who planned and killed were not acting under the instruction of the church. But moral responsibility changes dramatically if you are a European or US Catholic. To the priests of the Irish church who abused children, the pope has this to say: "You must answer for it before almighty God and before properly constituted tribunals. You have forfeited the esteem of the people of Ireland and brought shame and dishonour upon your confreres."

The losses of Rwanda had received no such consideration. Some of the nuns and priests who have been convicted by Belgian courts and the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda, respectively, enjoyed refuge in Catholic churches in Europe while on the run from prosecutors. One such is Father Athanase Seromba, who led the Nyange parish massacre and was sentenced to 15 years in jail by the tribunal. In April 1994, Seromba helped lure over 2,000 desperate men, women and children to his church, where they expected safety. But their shepherd turned out to be their hunter.

One evening Seromba entered the church and carried away the chalices of communion and other clerical vestments. When a refugee begged that they be left the Eucharist to enable them to at least hold a (final) mass, the priest refused and told them that the building was no longer a church. A witness at the ICTR trial remembered an exchange in which the priest's mindset was revealed.

One of the refugees asked: "Father, can't you pray for us?" Seromba replied: "Is the God of the Tutsis still alive?" Later, he would order a bulldozer to push down the church walls on those inside and then urge militias to invade the building and finish off the survivors.

At his trial, Seromba said: "A priest I am and a priest I will remain." This, apparently, is the truth, since the Vatican has never taken back its statements defending him before his conviction.

In the last century, Catholic bishops have been deeply mired in Rwandan politics with the full knowledge of the Vatican. Take Archbishop Vincent Nsengiyumva. Until 1990, he had served as the chairman of the ruling party's central committee for almost 15 years, championing the authoritarian government of Juvenal Habyarimana, which orchestrated the murder of almost a million people. Or Archbishop André Perraudin, the most senior representative of Rome in 1950s Rwanda. It was with his collusion and mentorship that the hateful, racist ideology known as Hutu Power was launched – often by priests and seminarians in good standing with the church. One such was Rwanda's first president, Grégoire Kayibanda, a private secretary and protege of Perraudin, whose political power was unrivalled.

The support for Hutu Power was therefore not unknowing or naive. It was a strategy to maintain the church's powerful political position in a decolonising Rwanda. The violence of the 1960s led inexorably to the 1994 attempt to exterminate Tutsis. These were violent expressions of a political sphere dominated by contentions that Hutu and Tutsi were separate and opposed racial categories. This, too, is one of the legacies of the Catholic missionary, whose schools and pulpits for decades kept up a drumbeat of false race theories.

This turning away from the Rwandan victims of genocide comes at a time when the Catholic church is increasingly peopled by black and brown believers. It is difficult not to conclude the church's upper reaches are desperately holding on to a fast-vanishing racial patrimony.

Perhaps it is time Catholics forced the leaders of their church to deal with a history of institutional racism that endures, if the church is truly to live up to its fine words. Apologies are not sufficient, no matter how abject. What is demanded is an acknowledgment of the church's political power and moral culpability, with all the material and legal implications that come with it.

The silence of the Vatican is contempt. Its failure to fully examine its central place in Rwandan genocide can only mean that it is fully aware that it will not be threatened if it buries its head in the sand. While it knows if it ignores the sexual abuse of European parishioners it will not survive the next few years, it can let those African bodies remain buried, dehumanised and unexamined.

This is a good political strategy. And a moral position whose duplicity and evil has been witnessed and documented. For, it turns out, many people, scholars, governments and institutions inside and outside Rwanda are excavating their own roles in the genocide. The Vatican stands as an exception, its moral place now even lower than that of the government of France for its enduring friendship with genocidaires.


Still waiting for that link lupi and for the real ratfuckers to stand up? Would you include Archbishop Vincent Nsengiyumva. in that ratfuckers club or Archbishop André Perraudin???? I would but I don't suppose you have the time, defending the indefensible is such an all consuming affair and the 1990's are so like ancient history being dragged up :roll:



Genocide Watch
The International Alliance to End Genocide

The 8 Stages of Genocide

By Gregory H. Stanton, President, Genocide Watch

Classification Symbolization Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Extermination Denial

Genocide is a process that develops in eight stages that are predictable but not inexorable. At each stage, preventive measures can stop it. The process is not linear. Logically, later stages must be preceded by earlier stages. But all stages continue to operate throughout the process.

1. CLASSIFICATION: All cultures have categories to distinguish people into �us and them� by ethnicity, race, religion, or nationality: German and Jew, Hutu and Tutsi. Bipolar societies that lack mixed categories, such as Rwanda and Burundi, are the most likely to have genocide. The main preventive measure at this early stage is to develop universalistic institutions that transcend ethnic or racial divisions, that actively promote tolerance and understanding, and that promote classifications that transcend the divisions. The Catholic church could have played this role in Rwanda, had it not been riven by the same ethnic cleavages as Rwandan society. Promotion of a common language in countries like Tanzania has also promoted transcendent national identity. This search for common ground is vital to early prevention of genocide.

2. SYMBOLIZATION: We give names or other symbols to the classifications. We name people �Jews� or �Gypsies�, or distinguish them by colors or dress; and apply the symbols to members of groups. Classification and symbolization are universally human and do not necessarily result in genocide unless they lead to the next stage, dehumanization. When combined with hatred, symbols may be forced upon unwilling members of pariah groups: the yellow star for Jews under Nazi rule, the blue scarf for people from the Eastern Zone in Khmer Rouge Cambodia. To combat symbolization, hate symbols can be legally forbidden (swastikas) as can hate speech. Group marking like gang clothing or tribal scarring can be outlawed, as well. The problem is that legal limitations will fail if unsupported by popular cultural enforcement. Though Hutu and Tutsi were forbidden words in Burundi until the 1980�s, code-words replaced them. If widely supported, however, denial of symbolization can be powerful, as it was in Bulgaria, where the government refused to supply enough yellow badges and at least eighty percent of Jews did not wear them, depriving the yellow star of its significance as a Nazi symbol for Jews.

3. DEHUMANIZATION: One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects or diseases. Dehumanization overcomes the normal human revulsion against murder. At this stage, hate propaganda in print and on hate radios is used to vilify the victim group. In combating this dehumanization, incitement to genocide should not be confused with protected speech. Genocidal societies lack constitutional protection for countervailing speech, and should be treated differently than democracies. Local and international leaders should condemn the use of hate speech and make it culturally unacceptable. Leaders who incite genocide should be banned from international travel and have their foreign finances frozen. Hate radio stations should be shut down, and hate propaganda banned. Hate crimes and atrocities should be promptly punished.

4. ORGANIZATION: Genocide is always organized, usually by the state, often using militias to provide deniability of state responsibility (the Janjaweed in Darfur.) Sometimes organization is informal (Hindu mobs led by local RSS militants) or decentralized (terrorist groups.) Special army units or militias are often trained and armed. Plans are made for genocidal killings. To combat this stage, membership in these militias should be outlawed. Their leaders should be denied visas for foreign travel. The U.N. should impose arms embargoes on governments and citizens of countries involved in genocidal massacres, and create commissions to investigate violations, as was done in post-genocide Rwanda.

5. POLARIZATION: Extremists drive the groups apart. Hate groups broadcast polarizing propaganda. Laws may forbid intermarriage or social interaction. Extremist terrorism targets moderates, intimidating and silencing the center. Moderates from the perpetrators� own group are most able to stop genocide, so are the first to be arrested and killed. Prevention may mean security protection for moderate leaders or assistance to human rights groups. Assets of extremists may be seized, and visas for international travel denied to them. Coups d��tat by extremists should be opposed by international sanctions.

6. PREPARATION: Victims are identified and separated out because of their ethnic or religious identity. Death lists are drawn up. Members of victim groups are forced to wear identifying symbols. Their property is expropriated. They are often segregated into ghettoes, deported into concentration camps, or confined to a famine-struck region and starved. At this stage, a Genocide Emergency must be declared. If the political will of the great powers, regional alliances, or the U.N. Security Council can be mobilized, armed international intervention should be prepared, or heavy assistance provided to the victim group to prepare for its self-defense. Otherwise, at least humanitarian assistance should be organized by the U.N. and private relief groups for the inevitable tide of refugees to come.

7. EXTERMINATION begins, and quickly becomes the mass killing legally called �genocide.� It is �extermination� to the killers because they do not believe their victims to be fully human. When it is sponsored by the state, the armed forces often work with militias to do the killing. Sometimes the genocide results in revenge killings by groups against each other, creating the downward whirlpool-like cycle of bilateral genocide (as in Burundi). At this stage, only rapid and overwhelming armed intervention can stop genocide. Real safe areas or refugee escape corridors should be established with heavily armed international protection. (An unsafe �safe� area is worse than none at all.) The U.N. Standing High Readiness Brigade, EU Rapid Response Force, or regional forces -- should be authorized to act by the U.N. Security Council if the genocide is small. For larger interventions, a multilateral force authorized by the U.N. should intervene. If the U.N. is paralyzed, regional alliances must act. It is time to recognize that the international responsibility to protect transcends the narrow interests of individual nation states. If strong nations will not provide troops to intervene directly, they should provide the airlift, equipment, and financial means necessary for regional states to intervene.

8. DENIAL is the eighth stage that always follows a genocide. It is among the surest indicators of further genocidal massacres. The perpetrators of genocide dig up the mass graves, burn the bodies, try to cover up the evidence and intimidate the witnesses. They deny that they committed any crimes, and often blame what happened on the victims. They block investigations of the crimes, and continue to govern until driven from power by force, when they flee into exile. There they remain with impunity, like Pol Pot or Idi Amin, unless they are captured and a tribunal is established to try them. The response to denial is punishment by an international tribunal or national courts. There the evidence can be heard, and the perpetrators punished. Tribunals like the Yugoslav or Rwanda Tribunals, or an international tribunal to try the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, or an International Criminal Court may not deter the worst genocidal killers. But with the political will to arrest and prosecute them, some may be brought to justice.


� 1998 Gregory H. Stanton. Originally presented as a briefing paper at the US State Department in 1996.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby DrEvil » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:24 pm

Thanks Slad, one more for my list.

I'd rather associate with ratfuckers than a genocidal, misogynistic, homophobic, ritually cannibalistic and child-fucking death cult*.

*Death cult as in: Jesus died for our sins. Ergo - he was sacrificed to appease an angry god. See also witch burnings etc.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 4172
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby justdrew » Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:03 am

this is one of those things were you can see it two ways :hrumph

the vocalized intention seems nice, but as Megaforce's motto says, "Deeds not words"

Image
Pope Francis washed the feet of 12 young offenders including two girls and two Muslims at a Rome prison on Thursday in an unprecedented version of an ancient Easter ritual, seen as part of efforts to bring the Catholic Church closer to those in need.

The pope knelt down, washing and kissing the young prisoners’ feet in the first Holy Thursday ceremony of its kind performed by a pontiff in prison, and the first to include women and Muslims.

“Whoever is the most high up must be at the service of others,” Francis said at the mass in the Casal del Marmo youth prison, a fortnight after being elected Latin America’s first pope.

“I do this with all my heart because it is my duty as a priest, as a bishop. I have to be at your service. I love doing it because this is what the Lord has taught me,” the 76-year-old said.

Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi said many of the participants broke down in tears at the ceremony, which was open only to Vatican media. One young man had to be replaced at the last moment because he was too overcome with emotion.

Video footage from the ceremony showed the pope pouring water over the feet — one of them with tattoos — bending down to kiss them and looking each of the 12 prisoners in the eye before moving on.


Lombardi said that while this was the first time a pope had washed women’s feet, Francis had performed this type of ceremony in his native Argentina many times before becoming pope including in jails, hospitals and old people’s homes.

The Holy Thursday ceremony is usually held in a basilica in the city centre and commemorates the gesture of humility believed to have been performed by Jesus Christ before his death to his 12 disciples at their last meal.

Popes performing the ritual have usually washed the feet of priests.

Catholic traditionalists are likely to be riled by the inclusion of women because all of Jesus’ disciples were male — the same justification used to explain why only men can be Catholic priests.

Francis has already broken with several Vatican traditions with his informal style, although he is yet to begin tackling the many problems assailing the Roman Catholic Church including reform of the scandal-ridden Vatican bureaucracy and bank.

Local prison chaplain Gaetano Greco said he hoped the ritual would be “a positive sign in the lives” of the young offenders at the prison, which has around 50 inmates aged between 14 and 21.

Earlier on Thursday, the pontiff told Catholic priests at a mass in St Peter’s Basilica to stop their “soul-searching” and “introspection”.

“We need to go out… to the outskirts where there is suffering, bloodshed, blindness that longs for sight and prisoners in thrall to many evil masters,” he said.

– Via Crucis –

The former archbishop of Buenos Aires, Jorge Mario Bergoglio, was known in Argentina for his strong social advocacy during his homeland’s devastating economic crisis, his own humble lifestyle and his outreach in poor neighbourhoods.

Holy Thursday is the first of four intensive days in the Christian calendar culminating in Easter Sunday, which commemorates Christ’s resurrection.

On Friday, Francis will recite the Passion of Christ — the story of the last hours of Jesus’s life — in St Peter’s Basilica, before presiding over the Via Crucis — Way of the Cross — ceremony by the Colosseum, where thousands of Christians were believed killed in Roman times.

While a frail Benedict, now 85, presided over last year’s celebrations from under a canopy next to the Colosseum, Francis is expected to take part in the procession and even carry the wooden cross on his shoulder for part of the way.

On Saturday, the pontiff will take part in an evening Easter vigil in St Peter’s Basilica. The Vatican has not yet said whether Francis will follow the tradition of baptising eight adult converts to the Catholic Church during the service.

On Sunday the Vatican’s first non-European pope in nearly 1,300 years will celebrate Easter mass in front of tens of thousands of pilgrims in St Peter’s Square and then pronounce the traditional “Urbi et Orbi” blessing to Rome and the world.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby FourthBase » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:06 pm

So, the local FOX affiliate just did a story about a photograph of the Pope blessing a local boy with cerebral palsy. In the pic, the Pope is embracing the boy and kissing the boy on the cheek. It would only let the monsters win by interpreting every display of human affection through the tainted lens of an association with their evil deeds. Hugs and kisses must not be perceived as somehow always suspect. They are an expression of love. A defense against evil, a weapon to fight hate, a blessing for the lonely and unloved. But. This was...just...wrong. The pic had echoes of that famous WWII V-Day kiss. It is sadly inevitable in 2013 that associations with priestly pedophilia come to mind, when seeing Catholic clergy (not so much the nuns) showing physical affection for a child. The anchors reading from teleprompters used language to describe the photo that was written by someone who appears to be utterly oblivious to the Catholic pedophilia scandal, just compounding the ugly associations with some diction that could have just as easily been lifted from the victim statement of an altar boy describing how a priest first crossed the line into abusing him, with inappropriate hugs and kisses. Then, as the icing, after interviewing the proud parents, the anchors ad-libbed some vicarious excitement, along the lines of, "How lucky! What other kid has ever had the chance to be embraced and kissed by such an important Catholic figure!?" Obviously, of course, quite a few. Way, way too many.

(The next segment was a sneaky-hostile interview with Barney Frank, appropriately enough for FOX25. Edit: And, true to form, Frank called the vapid bitch on the stealth hostility, turning the whole interview into a calling-out of the station's transparent agenda.)
Last edited by FourthBase on Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Joy is a current of energy in your body, like chlorophyll or sunlight,
that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
User avatar
FourthBase
 
Posts: 7057
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 4:41 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:30 pm

just who is running Frans' publicity tour.....Burson-Marsteller?

ImageImage
Image
Image
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:39 pm

Image
ImageImageImageImage


Vatican said Pinochet killings were 'propaganda': WikiLeaks
AFP Apr 8, 2013, 09.00PM IST

ROME: The Vatican once dismissed reports of massacres by Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet as "Communist propaganda", according to declassified US diplomatic documents from the 1970s on Monday.

One cable dated October 18, 1973 sent to Washington by the US embassy to the Holy See relayed a conversation with the Vatican's then deputy secretary of state, Giovanni Benelli.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests