Fixed Flat Earth?

[Wombaticus Rex]

This balloon supposedly ascended to an altitude in excess of 75,000 feet, far above the 60,000 feet necessary to see the curvature clearly. No curvature.

Looks like we just hit the event horizon for "What Color Is This Dress?" apophenia, then. That was one of the other videos I contemplated posting, curvature is clearly, repeatedly visible.

....to me. I won't tell you what you're seeing. I will raise my eyebrows and stare at you funny for a few minutes, though.

[divideandconquer]

This balloon supposedly ascended to an altitude in excess of 75,000 feet, far above the 60,000 feet necessary to see the curvature clearly. No curvature.

Looks like we just hit the event horizon for "What Color Is This Dress?" apophenia, then. That was one of the other videos I contemplated posting, curvature is clearly, repeatedly visible.

....to me. I won't tell you what you're seeing. I will raise my eyebrows and stare at you funny for a few minutes, though.

Well, it's possible that you are seeing what you want to see, expect to see, or that your mind won't let you see flat when it's programmed to see curve. I suspect that most people will see curvature as well because of their programming. Don't worry, it's not your fault.

[stoneonstone]

Re: Boylan..,

When I first saw his 'routine' vid, I immediately thought 'a bad early Denis Leary parody'....and we know, early Learly cribbed heavily from an original mind.

A great painter. May have providec some killer texture maps and renderings. So?

[KUAN]

HANG ON,hang on, whoa, not so fast....

THE CONCAVE EARTH HYPOTHESIS

This hypothesis was first conceptualised in the Cellular Cosmogony of Cyrus R Teed, founder of the Koreshan Religion/Society established in 1886. He stated that the Earth is concave (curving upward), thus we are on the inside of a hollow Sphere. All of the stars and planets are illusions due to refraction of curving light in the atmosphere, of which itself is illusory in the general appearance of its shape. Only one half of the sun radiates light, it rotates on an axis at the centre of the hollow cell, and we only ever see a focalised projection of it through multiple layers of the atmosphere.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/foru ... jlkyGQrK8o

Cyrus Reed Teed (1839–1908) was a U.S. eclectic physician and alchemist turned religious leader and messiah. In 1869, claiming divine inspiration, Dr. Teed took on the name Koresh and proposed a new set of scientific and religious ideas he called Koreshanity, including a unique Hollow Earth theory that posits the Earth and sky exist inside the inner surface of a sphere.

In the 1870s, he founded in New York the Koreshan Unity, a commune whose rule of conduct was based on his teachings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_Teed

This was told to me by someone who believes in it... there is apparently someone called Steven Crise? on youtube who expounds it but I couldn't find him.

[seemslikeadream]

oh come on now how can the earth be hollow if it is flat?

[KUAN]

How can eggplant be a fruit when it goes into things like moussaka - I could give other examples

[Project Willow]

I have great admiration for every one who is calmly responding, or quietly tolerating the assertions in this thread, or indeed, its very existence.

I do not have such patience, and I'm sorry if I offend as we're all human and fallible, and nothing I'm about to say means I'm lacking in compassion, I'm just far behind others here in my capacity to distance and understand.

I find the rejection of reality, verified by my own eyes as I've been fortunate enough to have ridden in an airplane and looked at the ocean, utterly and completely maddening. The postings by proponents sound exactly like the musings of the alters under age 8 in my system who are stuck with magical thinking as their sole coping mechanism.

Obviously, the most logical conclusion about these claims is that they serve elementally in constructing the final nail into the coffin of "conspiracy theory" and their introduction is part of a hilarious, but quite intentional psy-op. That people would take them seriously, and expound on that to claim that disparate organizations spanning generations of scientists are some part of some grand, 1,000 year conspiracy is the very definition of madness, the absolute absence of logic and discernment.

I can not live in this pretend space where nothing is real. It is antithetical to everything I depend upon to make my own case appear real to the general public. So ironic that defenders are propagating it, but perhaps not accidental, perhaps they've been "triggered".

*terrified*

*exiting*

*done*

[norton ash]

I'll just stay in my own sphere. So round, so firm, so fully-packed.

[Elvis]

I have a 5 mile non-locked canal separating me from the mainland. And I can see one end to the other, no problem. Markers, walls etc. Doing the math (something I don't do, apart from basics at tax time), I realize that there should be a 16 and a half foot drop from one end to the other, so I should not be able to see what I do. Sure, some can say that the atmosphere is a corrective lens on this, and 'nothing to see here'.

Maybe next year I'll have to arrange my own Bedford Level test here.

The Lake Ontario shipping lanes are out, 10 to 25 miles out from here as well. Maybe my math is wrong, but doesn't that mean over a 66 foot difference, to a 416 foot difference for those distances out? Why can I see the lakers then plying those lanes...hull at waterline up, and not just a telecom mast or something?

The distance to the visible ocean horizon depends on a number of things and can vary massively. Good page about it here:

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~aty/explain/atmos_refr/horizon.html

So the nice-looking formulae for calculating “the distance to the horizon” are really only rough approximations to the truth. You can consider them accurate to a few per cent, most of the time. But, occasionally, they will be wildly off, particularly if mirages are visible. Then it's common to see much farther than usual — a condition known as looming.

How far can you see?

Still, even with those caveats, it's of interest to consider how far the eye can see under different conditions. Usually the visibility is limited by scattered light in the lower atmosphere; see

Craig F. Bohren and Alistair B. Fraser
“At what altitude does the horizon cease to be visible?”
American Journal of Physics 54, Issue 3 (March, 1986) p. 222

for details. Even under extremely clear conditions, it's unusual to see more than a couple of hundred kilometers.

However, there is one situation in which objects can be made out at great distances: when they are silhouetted against a bright background, such as the setting Sun, or (just after sunset) a bright twilit sky.

Here in San Diego, we rarely can see San Clemente Island, about 125 km offshore. The top of the island should just be visible above our horizon with normal refraction, but it's concealed by “airlight” during the day. Even in the clear air of a “Santa Ana,” which causes looming and raises more of the island above the apparent horizon, it's often hard to make out.

But just after sunset, the island is often visible, if you know where to look. The air between you and the island is only dimly illuminated after sunset, but the sky behind the island — i.e., the air beyond the horizon that is still in direct sunlight — is still fairly bright. Then the silhouette of the island is striking, even if it had been invisible a few minutes before sunset.

The Sun itself can be seen through a long duct when it is several degrees below the astronomical horizon; however, its image is then so distorted that any intervening terrestrial object (such as an island, a mountain, or even a cloud) would probably also be so distorted that its silhouette against the Sun would be unrecognizable. Some extreme claims can surely be discounted, such as Jessen's 1914 illusion. (Jessen claimed to have seen a mountain nearly 900 km away, but he certainly did not; Korzenewsky (1923), who refers to this report in a footnote, somehow inflated that to 1177 km.)

What's the record for visibility without help from the silhouetting effect? I think that might belong to the report of the expedition led by Korzenewsky (1923), who reported seeing snow-capped peaks of a mountain range 750 km away. Conditions were perfect: the lower atmosphere was in shadow at sunset; the peaks were quite high (4650 meters, or over 15,000 feet); they were covered with white snow, increasing their visibility; and there must also have been considerable looming to bring these distant features above the observers' horizon. As the observation was made on June 1, near the peak of superior-mirage season, the looming is not improbable, though the amount required is hard to believe. The observers themselves were in the deserts of Turkestan [now southeastern Kazakhstan] at a height of nearly a kilometer, where the dryness of the air favored extreme clarity, and looking across a broad, sandy depression. And, of course, much of the air path was in thinner air well above ground level, because of the mountains' height.

When I worked on boats, the rule of thumb was 9 to 12 miles to see the top of another vessel appear on the horizon -- which I did many times, watching the full height of the ship emerge vertically as it sailed toward us over the curve of the Earth's surface. It's eerie through binoculars.


Once I was camping in the mountains -- true story -- and watched two sunsets on the same evening. From a lake at the bottom of an almost vertical mountainside, I watched a gorgeous sunset. Then I ran as fast as I could up the switchback trail to my camp, gaining a couple hundred feet in elevation, and there was the full disc of the sun on the horizon. I watched it once again slowly disappear under the horizon.

This proves that there are two suns.

[stefano]

I really think there is something to plasma cosmology

Ha. You have trouble understanding gravitation, but you have an opinion on very advanced astrophysics? Have you looked into it and decided that Birkeland currents of 10^18 amps or more over scales of megaparsecs were sustainable in the early universe? Or do you just think there's something to plasma cosmology because most astrophysicists don't? And I'm dying to understand how you can think the Hubble observations are simultaneously shoops and grounds to theorise about fundamental forces.

Actually I know how that works, and, at the risk of becoming tedious, it's because you're not using the word 'think' the way most people do, you're using it the way dogmatic religious people use 'believe'. You adopt theories as badges that say something about you, and are not all that concerned with reality or even consistency.

I mean, do you really think, after 500 years, if they found out they were wrong they would admit it?

It's been over 2,000 years. Well, yes. Because they (meaning we) have admitted they were wrong about just about everything you can think of - the shape of the Earth, its size, whether it goes around the Sun, particle theory, theories of the elements, relativity, evolution, and on and on. If they never admitted they were wrong, they'd still be telling us the Earth is flat and the heavens are fixed. So it's funny and instructive that you'd bring that up in a thread about Flat Earth. The people who have trouble adjusting their world views really aren't the ones you think.

Wombat - "Dietrich Eckart convincing Hitler he was white?" What's that story?

[kool maudit]

Other than as some sort of extensive metaphor for the subjective and/or institutionally created nature of reality, I really can't find much value in this.

It's also suspicious how it's suddenly everywhere.

I have been in boats and planes and balloons and never felt that the spherical model seemed other than true, other than what was plainly visible.

[Elihu]

this has been informative to watch - read - us divide and amalgamate. it is, or could end up, borg - non borg. seems to me.

just to mention, re the years, decades, thousands millions of people, uh no, it's not a clunky conspiracy. it is audacity and delusion. those are what make it work and keep it going. that and terror of thugs and cops. those are a tell-tale sign. that would explain why "conspiracy" won't go away. and also why it gets adopted as a world-view. even they can't guess at the truth.

[divideandconquer]

Let me get this straight. Conspiracies are confined to what? The last 50 years? 100 years? Prior to that conspiracies did not exist? Or cannot span hundreds or thousands of years? The only dogmatic thinking I see here is from the people who allow their emotional attachment to a 500 year old theory condemn anyone who asks questions or who provide contradictory evidence to their ingrained belief system. Using NASA, abstract mathematical models, and mainstream scientists doesn't prove anything to those of us who do not trust these abstractions/people/institutions.

I don't know why it's so hard to say, "I don't know". Because unless you've been to space and have seen the globe spinning at 1000 mph, you don't know. The only thing I know is that I don't know.

One thing for sure. So many of you who post here are skilled practitioners of the rhetoric of contempt. I think I prefer outright ridicule.

[General Patton]

The only dogmatic thinking I see here is from the people who allow their emotional attachment to a 500 year old theory condemn anyone who asks questions or who provide contradictory evidence to their ingrained belief system. Using NASA, abstract mathematical models, and mainstream scientists doesn't prove anything to those of us who do not trust these abstractions/people/institutions.

Indeed, this is a symptom of the lack of trust in government and other assorted institutions.

One thing for sure. So many of you who post here are skilled practitioners of the rhetoric of contempt. I think I prefer outright ridicule.

I recommend a cup of hot coco and a nice warm fire for that smug warmness that can't be faked. Smug shitposting is the best way to post.

[seemslikeadream]

we all have our heavy crosses to bear here...trust me I know