Texas Walmart mass shooting in El Paso gun attack

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Re: Texas Walmart mass shooting in El Paso gun attack

Postby Sounder » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:42 am

Picciolini: It’s a very parallel process. The propaganda is very similar. The internet itself is a platform. Thirty years ago, marginalized, broken, angry young people had to be met face-to-face to get recruited into a movement. Nowadays, those millions and millions of young people are living most of their lives online if they don’t have real-world connections. And they’re finding a community online instead of in the real world, and having conversations about promoting violence.


Sad, but predictable when one is de-facto required to share the common ideological bent in order to participate. And if you don't, a caricature of some silly opposing ideology will be invented and imposed on you so that fellow conformists will reliably discount your words.

Long live Antifa, death to the Nazis.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Texas Walmart mass shooting in El Paso gun attack

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:46 am

trump visits El Paso, provin’ that the criminal always returns to the scene of the crime.


Burnett: Trump said hospital visit was no photo op, then they made a video

trump made himself the victim on a day meant to be about the victims of mass shootings


All eight El Paso shooting victims declined to be visited by the president

Image
Image


In a hospital after a tragedy, he starts talking about his El Paso rally crowd size...because of course the White Nationalist did


Laurence Tribe
Trump’s totally gratuitous attack on Dayton Mayor Nan Whaley as he moved from Dayton to El Paso — and his false claim that she “misrepresented” what went on during his hospital visit — were just what we’ve learned to expect from this horrible man. He disgraces the office daily.



8/07/2019

This Desperate, Armed Land
One afternoon in Barcelona last week, I walked back to the small apartment building where I was staying to find two police officers waiting for the elevator. The elevator was tiny and could only fit one person at a time, so one cop went up while her partner waited to take the next one. I asked the remaining officer if everything was okay, hoping he spoke some English as my Spanish is pretty much nonexistent.

"Yes, it's fine. Someone had some things stolen," he said in better English than most Americans. "It happens all the time here." He asked where I was from and I told him, and that prompted him to say, "Oh, it's not like the United States here. We have pickpockets and some robberies. But no one is shooting people." While he was underselling crime overall in the city, he was absolutely right on that last point. No one worries about being shot for going to a festival or a Walmart or a club or a school or anywhere, really. Barcelona has over 1.6 million people with millions of tourists visiting. There were 10 murders last year.

In the ten days I was out of the United States, there were three mass shootings: Gilroy, El Paso, and Dayton. In Spain, the murder rate is about 0.6 per 100,000 people. In the United States, it's currently at around 5 per 100,000. So the US has 8-9 times the murder rate of Spain, which isn't even the lowest in Europe. If you visit Italy or the Czech Republic, you could write this about how they are even safer when it comes to murder.

Other countries have mentally-ill people. Other countries have young people who play violent, first-person shooter video games. Other countries have racists and fascists and white supremacists who shit-post on online message boards. What these countries don't have is the staggering number of guns that we have in the United States. They don't have the ludicrous availability of weapons originally designed for war. And thus they almost never have a mass shooting, despite the presence of mental illness, violent video games, and the ineluctable array of assholes.

When our savage lump of a president undulated over to the microphone on Monday to give a flat, forced, utterly false speech about the two massacres in 24 hours, he absolutely refused, as ever, to place any blame on the out of control gun lobby and manufacturers and sellers. And owners. In that slurred, trash-Muppet voice of his, squinting as if light from the teleprompter would melt his eyeballs, Donald Trump blurbled blame at video games and "a culture that celebrates violence."

It should be noted here that right after the Dayton shooting, Trump praised an MMA fighter and wished him luck. It should also be noted that Trump participated in WWE events and was a regular in attendance at boxing matches, with promoter/criminal Don King as one of his "friends." In other words, (mostly) real violence occurred for his entertainment and somehow that's more noble than pretend-shooting enemy soldiers and hell beasts. This is not to mention his threats of violence against protesters at his rallies, his musing on nuking Afghanistan and North Korea, and every filthy fucking word out of his shit-filled mouth that degrades immigrants and non-whites.

He also said, "[W]e must reform our mental health laws to better identify mentally disturbed individuals who may commit acts of violence and make sure those people not only get treatment, but, when necessary, involuntary confinement. Mental illness and hatred pulls the trigger, not the gun." Except that the gun provides the trigger. No gun, no trigger. Also, if you're going to assert that people should get treatment, then the government ought to offer medical care to those diagnosed "mentally disturbed."

And let's talk for just a moment about that idea that these mass murderers must be mentally ill. I read the "manifesto" or "screed" or "decent sophomore-level college essay" by the El Paso shooter, as I've read the words of just about every one of these shits. Inasmuch as we all pretend we can distance diagnose someone through their writings, this one was not written in any kind of state of mental breakdown. It was a calm argument on various points, like he had just gotten a class assignment on racist murder.

Calling mass shooters "crazy" for committing the shooting may be comforting because it makes them Not Like Me, but it's a lie. It degrades the real sufferers of mental illness, and it demonizes them. It places the blame at arm's length and gives every NRA-owned politician an out. This is much the same as Trump's offer to discuss even weak gun control measures in the context of immigration reform. It blames the wrong thing and the wrong people. Immigrants aren't what ail the country.

Simply put, the special sickness in the United States is the guns. The majority of Americans know that. I'd venture that the majority of politicians know it. But the Republican has a stake in keeping its voters stoked with paranoia about outsiders, about any government programs, about their own neighbors who aren't like them. The GOP needs its base to be desperate and then to exploit that desperation in order to maintain power. But the desperate need to have something that gives them comfort, that makes them feel safe in a world that they are constantly told by their leaders and their media is out to destroy them and their fading way of life. Guns provide that security. No, they may not have health care, access to a good education, a fair wage at a fair job, or decent infrastructure, but, goddamnit, they can have guns and the belief that it inoculates them should shit go south. Or if they believe it's finally go time to act on whatever belief is driving them, never realizing that the people who sold them this bill of goods are the real enemy.

In his statement after El Paso and Dayton, former president Barack Obama made guns the very first point: "First, no other nation on Earth comes close to experiencing the frequency of mass shootings that we see in the United States. No other developed nation tolerates the levels of gun violence that we do." Yeah, he said, there are these other factors (not violent video games because that's just stupid). But as any law enforcement officer will tell you, you have to disarm someone or render them no longer dangerous before you can do anything else for them.

Of course, Trump, who is the king of misdirected grievance and thus the ideal leader for the desperate and armed, only saw that Obama said, "We should soundly reject language coming out of the mouths of any of our leaders that feeds a climate of fear and hatred or normalizes racist sentiments," and made the whole thing about himself and unwittingly admitting he uses that very language. Then he started tweeting about how the Dayton shooter had leftist leanings and that people should stop blaming him and Beto O'Rourke sucks. The guns may be the sickness. Trump is the parasite that feeds on the ill.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com


it's the trump defense

Man Who Attacked Boy for Wearing Hat During National Anthem Thought He Was Acting on Trump’s Orders: Attorney
Olivia Messer
Reporter
Published 08.08.19 9:21AM ET

REUTERS/Christian Hartmann
The lawyer for a 39-year-old man in Montana who fractured the skull of child for wearing a hat during the national anthem at a rodeo says his client believed he was acting on behalf of President Trump. Curt Brockway, who was charged this week with felony assault on the 13-year-old boy, suffered a traumatic brain injury and was honorably discharged from the U.S. Army over his disability, which his lawyer Lance Jasper said contributed to his actions. “His commander in chief is telling people that if they kneel, they should be fired, or if they burn a flag, they should be punished,” Jasper said. “He certainly didn’t understand it was a crime.” Brockway told deputies that he noticed the boy hadn’t removed his hat and confronted him about it, to which the boy responded “fuck you.” Brockway told authorities that he grabbed the boy by the throat, lifted him into the air, and then slammed him onto the ground. The boy was flown to a hospital, where he was diagnosed with a concussion and a fractured skull. Witnesses told reporters that Brockway defended his actions afterward because the boy had been disrespectful. “Trump never necessarily says go hurt somebody, but the message is absolutely clear,” Jasper said. “I am certain of the fact that [Brockway] was doing what he believed he was told to do, essentially, by the president.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/man-who-a ... itter_page
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Texas Walmart mass shooting in El Paso gun attack

Postby DrEvil » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:12 pm

Sounder » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:42 pm wrote:
Picciolini: It’s a very parallel process. The propaganda is very similar. The internet itself is a platform. Thirty years ago, marginalized, broken, angry young people had to be met face-to-face to get recruited into a movement. Nowadays, those millions and millions of young people are living most of their lives online if they don’t have real-world connections. And they’re finding a community online instead of in the real world, and having conversations about promoting violence.


Sad, but predictable when one is de-facto required to share the common ideological bent in order to participate. And if you don't, a caricature of some silly opposing ideology will be invented and imposed on you so that fellow conformists will reliably discount your words.

Long live Antifa, death to the Nazis.


Why on Earth would you put that in green? In case you hadn't noticed it's the white supremacists going around murdering people, not Antifa.

(And no, I'm not advocating killing Nazis, I'm advocating killing their movement. They should shut the fuck up and crawl back in their basements. Their ideology is worthless.)
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Re: Texas Walmart mass shooting in El Paso gun attack

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:21 pm

White Supremacist Attacks Have Grown Deadlier During Trump’s Presidency

Law enforcement leaders say they are also facing a surge in far-right plots and threats.

Two years ago, after President Donald Trump infamously defended a white supremacist rally that brought violence to Charlottesville, Virginia, some law enforcement leaders sounded the alarm about a resurgent threat of far-right extremism. Trump’s “very fine people” remarks in the aftermath of the deadly car attack in August 2017 amounted to “a disaster,” as one high-level federal law enforcement official put it to me then, warning: “There are real concerns about where it leads the country.”

By last July, a Mother Jones investigation documented a spate of far-right violence dating from the 2016 election, including two bomb plots and 15 attacks and killings around the country committed by people who expressed racist, xenophobic, anti-Semitic, or extreme anti-government views. A couple of cases included perpetrators who explicitly embraced Trump’s nativist ideas and rhetoric.

Since then, violence linked to far-right extremism has not only continued apace but has grown deadlier as the trend has converged with the mass shootings epidemic. According to Mother Jones research, there have been at least six gun rampages since last October marked by far-right ideology, including the mass murders at a Walmart in El Paso, Texas; a food festival in Gilroy, California; and a synagogue in Pittsburgh. Other recent shootings—at a synagogue near San Diego, a supermarket in Kentucky, and a yoga studio in Florida—were committed by individuals who harbored racist or anti-Semitic hatred. In total, these attacks resulted in 41 victims killed and at least 52 others wounded—nearly double the amount of casualties seen from such cases during the first year and a half of Trump’s presidency, and bringing the overall carnage since Trump was elected to at least 62 people dead and 79 others injured.

The attacks resulted in a total of 41 victims killed and at least 52 others wounded—nearly double the amount of casualties seen from such cases during the first year and a half of Trump’s presidency.
“This attack is a response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas,” the El Paso shooter stated in a document posted online just prior to his rampage, echoing a theme about migrant invasion frequently espoused by the president and his reelection campaign. The Gilroy shooter was also found to have possessed and posted about white supremacist materials on social media, although the FBI said on Tuesday that it hasn’t drawn conclusions due to his possible interest in several violent ideologies. Last fall, the synagogue attacker focused his rationale for mass murder around “caravans of migrant invaders” coming to the US border, another theme repeatedly highlighted by Trump, Fox News pundits and other political allies.

There has also been a spate of arrests in the past year for threats and plots of this nature, including by a heavily armed member of the US Coast Guard, a heavily armed man in Washington state, and a would-be arsonist in Florida. Enraged Trump supporters have targeted members of the so-called House Democratic “squad,” including one who violently threatened Rep. Rashida Tlaib of Michigan in a profane phone tirade, and another who called Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota a “radical Muslim” and vowed to “put a bullet in her fucking skull.”

An enraged Trump supporter called Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota a “radical Muslim” and vowed to “put a bullet in her fucking skull.”
An FBI counterterrorism official stated in congressional testimony in May that “domestic terrorists pose a present and persistent threat…in fact, there have been more arrests and deaths caused by domestic terrorists than international terrorists in recent years. We are most concerned about lone offenders, primarily using firearms,” he added.

In July, FBI director Christopher Wray told Congress that the bureau had made about 100 arrests over the previous nine months stemming from domestic terrorism investigations, and that a majority of the perpetrators were “motivated by some version of what you might call white supremacist violence.”

Two law enforcement leaders I spoke with recently confirmed the trend. A long-time state law enforcement official told me he was aware of numerous thwarted attacks that remain unknown to the public. Federal, state, and local agencies “all have their hands very full these days,” he said, confirming that many cases have had the hallmarks of far-right extremism. “This [threat] has always been around,” noted a veteran US law enforcement agent with expertise in domestic attacks, “but this is as active as I’ve seen it in a long time.”

It is unclear whether political extremism may have been a factor in Sunday’s mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio, where nine people died and more than two dozen were injured. At a press conference on Tuesday, the FBI said it was investigating the 24-year-old shooter’s alleged interest in “violent ideology”—though amid partisan claims that the shooter held “extreme leftist views,” the bureau declined to provide any details. Ohio authorities have said that no writings or other evidence collected so far show that the shooter—who murdered his own sister in the rampage—was motivated by political views. He was reportedly also kicked out of high school for maintaining “rape” and “kill” lists of fellow students, and had long been fixated on mass shootings and compelled by violent misogyny—a factor seen in many shooting cases.

What is clear is that the further rise of online radicalization and Trump’s bitter politics of grievance have made for an increasingly explosive mix. And there is no sign it will abate. Trump urged “unity” when reciting remarks from a teleprompter shortly after last weekend’s two mass attacks (having already suggested on Twitter that he might horse-trade gun safety legislation for backing of his anti-immigration policies). But then Trump followed a familiar script that evoked his widely condemned response to Charlottesville—reverting to divisive partisan vitriol and again suggesting without evidence that “both sides” are equally to blame for politically motivated mass attacks.

On his way to Dayton and El Paso on Wednesday to meet with local officials and victims, Trump also insisted that his rhetoric, which frequently includes demonizing immigrants and attacking women, African American and Latino leaders, “brings people together.” The American public, however, takes a grimmer view. According to a recent survey from the Pew Research Center, a majority think the president has made race relations worse, with roughly two-thirds saying that it’s become more common for people to express racist views since Trump became president.

As former FBI agent Michael German put it to me last year, “Clearly, [Trump’s] racist rhetoric has empowered white supremacist groups to be much more public. It’s very dangerous because these people who have a history of violence now feel they have state sanction to commit violence.”

FACT:

Mother Jones was founded as a nonprofit in 1976 because we knew corporations and the wealthy wouldn't fund the type of hard-hitting journalism we set out to do.

Today, reader support makes up about two-thirds of our budget, allows us to dig deep on stories that matter, and lets us keep our reporting free for everyone. If you value what you get from Mother Jones, please join us with a tax-deductible donation today so we can keep on doing the type of journalism 2019 demands.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... shootings/
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Texas Walmart mass shooting in El Paso gun attack

Postby Sounder » Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:55 am

Dr. Evil wrote...
Why on Earth would you put that in green? In case you hadn't noticed it's the white supremacists going around murdering people, not Antifa.


It seems that most people notice only what fits.

https://www.whio.com/news/local/dayton- ... qHNRGXyoL/

The Dayton Daily News reported Monday that a friend of Betts told police the would-be Dayton shooter discussed mass shootings. But the friend, Will El-Fakir, told the newspaper Betts was “definitely not a right-leaning person. His political views definitely leaned to the left.”


First off, I usually do not participate in threads like this because I find it sad that people make political hay out of tragedies. People that kill and/or are willing to kill find meaning in a empty life as they are egged on by those of a similar ideological bent.

The 'friend' says Betts discussed mass shootings, but two or more are required for a discussion. That 'friend' never reported Betts to authorities, nor did any other 'friends' in his click of misogynistic metal heads.


(And no, I'm not advocating killing Nazis, I'm advocating killing their movement. They should shut the fuck up and crawl back in their basements. Their ideology is worthless.)


Ideology in general is worthless because it removes agency from the individual as it claims to represent the proper basis for all thought. We see the sad results as the 'other' is continually dehumanized.

I should have stayed out of it, -go back to my basement, and cry in private.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Texas Walmart mass shooting in El Paso gun attack

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:50 am

Image


CNN's @Acosta reports that the 2-month old baby orphaned in the El Paso shooting was discharged from the hospital and then brought back yesterday only for Trump's photo op

the dad was a trump fan

"Sorry what I said got your parents murdered."
Image

‘Sorry About The Tornado Or Whatever,’ Says Trump Wolfing Down Bowl Of Chili While Consoling El Paso Shooting Victim
Image
https://politics.theonion.com/sorry-abo ... 1837074904



Image


The Dayton shooter murdered his sibling, who was reported (for days) to be his sister. Turns out, his sibling was a trans man who went by the name Jordan Cofer — and his family apparently allowed him to be misgendered even in death.
https://splinternews.com/friends-say-th ... 1837035664


Image
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Texas Walmart mass shooting in El Paso gun attack

Postby DrEvil » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:10 pm

Sounder » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:55 am wrote:Dr. Evil wrote...
Why on Earth would you put that in green? In case you hadn't noticed it's the white supremacists going around murdering people, not Antifa.


It seems that most people notice only what fits.

https://www.whio.com/news/local/dayton- ... qHNRGXyoL/

The Dayton Daily News reported Monday that a friend of Betts told police the would-be Dayton shooter discussed mass shootings. But the friend, Will El-Fakir, told the newspaper Betts was “definitely not a right-leaning person. His political views definitely leaned to the left.”


First off, I usually do not participate in threads like this because I find it sad that people make political hay out of tragedies. People that kill and/or are willing to kill find meaning in a empty life as they are egged on by those of a similar ideological bent.

The 'friend' says Betts discussed mass shootings, but two or more are required for a discussion. That 'friend' never reported Betts to authorities, nor did any other 'friends' in his click of misogynistic metal heads.


(And no, I'm not advocating killing Nazis, I'm advocating killing their movement. They should shut the fuck up and crawl back in their basements. Their ideology is worthless.)


Ideology in general is worthless because it removes agency from the individual as it claims to represent the proper basis for all thought. We see the sad results as the 'other' is continually dehumanized.

I should have stayed out of it, -go back to my basement, and cry in private.


So we have one attack from a far leftist, and every other attack from the far right. Sound balanced to you?

Last year every domestic terrorist attack came from the far right (one of them switched from white supremacy to Islamic extremism before the act). If you look at the numbers the far right is wildly over-represented. Your kind of bothsiderism is one of the reasons it's not being taken seriously. The problem isn't extremists from both sides, it's extremists from the far right.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ng/581284/
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Re: Texas Walmart mass shooting in El Paso gun attack

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:05 pm

he probably missed this post on page 5


Only 32 mass shootings in Obama's entire 8 years as Trump states. Look how many mass shootings in only first 8 months of just 2019 under Trump
Image
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
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Re: Texas Walmart mass shooting in El Paso gun attack

Postby Karmamatterz » Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:48 pm

Only 32 mass shootings in Obama's entire 8 years as Trump states. Look how many mass shootings in only first 8 months of just 2019 under Trump


Only 32 under Obama? What's an acceptable number? Does Obama, Clinton or Dubya get preferential treatment because they were all Time Magazine Person of the Year?

How many of those shootings was Obama responsible for? Was he responsible for the Aurora, Colorado movie theater shooting with the crazed Joker? You've assigned a lot of blame specifically to Trump for shootings. How does one differentiate between presidents to determine which president is responsible for whatever crimes are committed by the citizenry? What evidence that would stand up in a criminal prosecution do you have to show that Trump is in any way responsible for these mass shootings? You keep posting cartoons and all sorts of "journalism" articles that reference how Trump is responsible. Some real evidence would be nice to see as I'm very curious how any politician should be held accountable for what crazy loons are doing.

Have you read the "manifesto" that government officials stated the El Paso shooter posted on 8Chan? The document that the founder of 8Chan said was not posted by the shooter? Do you know how many times the alleged shooter mentioned in the alleged "manifesto" that Trump had nothing to do with it and zero influence? For that matter, I'm curious if anybody has read it. Much of it what is in it would seem to resonate with a lot of folks on RI.
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Re: Texas Walmart mass shooting in El Paso gun attack

Postby Karmamatterz » Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:57 pm

Last year every domestic terrorist attack came from the far right (one of them switched from white supremacy to Islamic extremism before the act). If you look at the numbers the far right is wildly over-represented. Your kind of bothsiderism is one of the reasons it's not being taken seriously. The problem isn't extremists from both sides, it's extremists from the far right.


There is some accuracy to what you wrote, but you're also not entirely correct either. Sounder, you're going to have to dig around to come up with the list of crazy loons that have blown up or shot up people that were lefties or liberals. I'm sure the list is smaller than the far right folks. Was Uncle Ted K. a liberal? What about the loon that shot up the Republican congressmen at the softball game? How far back should we go? The Weathermen? SDS?

The thing is, Sounder has a point even if the numbers are not balanced, which doesn't matter. Slad commented the other day that it's only males doing all this. Does her anger at males perhaps have a role in any of her projections? It's super easy to immediately layer on political affiliation to these events because some people can only see through those type of lenses. Wombaticus posted very interesting info early on in this thread that touched on things besides politics. But you know, what one is fracking OBSESSED with binary thinking of left or right that is all they will see. They are unable to consider multiple other factors. Multiple possible shooters, drug use, upbringing, mental health, etc...

Assigning a political angle to this only fuels more polarization. It's also like reading the shitty mainstream media where much of this crap originates.
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Re: Texas Walmart mass shooting in El Paso gun attack

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:58 pm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt5dzCd1pJQ
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
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Don’t forget that.
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Re: Texas Walmart mass shooting in El Paso gun attack

Postby DrEvil » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:03 pm

Karmamatterz » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:48 pm wrote:
Only 32 mass shootings in Obama's entire 8 years as Trump states. Look how many mass shootings in only first 8 months of just 2019 under Trump


Only 32 under Obama? What's an acceptable number? Does Obama, Clinton or Dubya get preferential treatment because they were all Time Magazine Person of the Year?

How many of those shootings was Obama responsible for? Was he responsible for the Aurora, Colorado movie theater shooting with the crazed Joker? You've assigned a lot of blame specifically to Trump for shootings. How does one differentiate between presidents to determine which president is responsible for whatever crimes are committed by the citizenry? What evidence that would stand up in a criminal prosecution do you have to show that Trump is in any way responsible for these mass shootings? You keep posting cartoons and all sorts of "journalism" articles that reference how Trump is responsible. Some real evidence would be nice to see as I'm very curious how any politician should be held accountable for what crazy loons are doing.

Have you read the "manifesto" that government officials stated the El Paso shooter posted on 8Chan? The document that the founder of 8Chan said was not posted by the shooter? Do you know how many times the alleged shooter mentioned in the alleged "manifesto" that Trump had nothing to do with it and zero influence? For that matter, I'm curious if anybody has read it. Much of it what is in it would seem to resonate with a lot of folks on RI.


Come on, it's pretty simple:

1. Trump embraces and encourages the far right with copious amounts of nudging and winking and outright endorsement.
2. Far right takes this as license to crawl out of their basements and start doing what they've been saying they want to do for years.

Did Obama encourage any domestic extremist movements? Did he talk about beating up or killing people or label the press as the enemy of the people, or label specific groups of people as vermin and rapists (incidentally the same people the shooter went after at Walmart)?

You don't need a written statement saying "Trump made me do it" to see the connection.
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Re: Texas Walmart mass shooting in El Paso gun attack

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:09 pm

even though there are a number of them

Man who assaulted a boy during national anthem is convinced Trump ordered it, lawyer says
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 958043001/



Sayoc became "infatuated" in Trump.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
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Re: Texas Walmart mass shooting in El Paso gun attack

Postby DrEvil » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:24 pm

Karmamatterz » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:57 pm wrote:
Last year every domestic terrorist attack came from the far right (one of them switched from white supremacy to Islamic extremism before the act). If you look at the numbers the far right is wildly over-represented. Your kind of bothsiderism is one of the reasons it's not being taken seriously. The problem isn't extremists from both sides, it's extremists from the far right.


There is some accuracy to what you wrote, but you're also not entirely correct either. Sounder, you're going to have to dig around to come up with the list of crazy loons that have blown up or shot up people that were lefties or liberals. I'm sure the list is smaller than the far right folks. Was Uncle Ted K. a liberal? What about the loon that shot up the Republican congressmen at the softball game? How far back should we go? The Weathermen? SDS?


Of course there have been leftist terrorists, no one is disputing that, but right now the largest threat is the far right. What happened fifty years ago isn't really relevant to what's happening today. But since we're going there, how about we go back to the forties? That would be about 70-85 million dead in the far right column, but hey, the Weathermen accidentally killed three of their own and no civilians so that's totally the same thing!

The thing is, Sounder has a point even if the numbers are not balanced, which doesn't matter. Slad commented the other day that it's only males doing all this. Does her anger at males perhaps have a role in any of her projections? It's super easy to immediately layer on political affiliation to these events because some people can only see through those type of lenses. Wombaticus posted very interesting info early on in this thread that touched on things besides politics. But you know, what one is fracking OBSESSED with binary thinking of left or right that is all they will see. They are unable to consider multiple other factors. Multiple possible shooters, drug use, upbringing, mental health, etc...


So I'm assuming you have a list of all the female mass shooters ready at hand to support your point, right?

Assigning a political angle to this only fuels more polarization. It's also like reading the shitty mainstream media where much of this crap originates.


We're assigning a political angle to this because there is a political angle. With very few exceptions all the recent mass shooters are from the far right. Your desperate attempts to deflect blame away from them is pretty disgusting.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
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Re: Texas Walmart mass shooting in El Paso gun attack

Postby Karmamatterz » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:27 pm

Come on, it's pretty simple:

1. Trump embraces and encourages the far right with copious amounts of nudging and winking and outright endorsement.
2. Far right takes this as license to crawl out of their basements and start doing what they've been saying they want to do for years.


No, it's not that simple. It's BS arguments with a lot of wishful thinking no matter what Drumpf says.

I sttill want to know if Obama was responsible for any shootings? Or are his hand clean? Dubya? Clinton was prez during Columbine. Hell Johnson was president, and from Texas, (oh my) when the nutjob tower shooter killed several.

The arguments are lame. It's really about as close to hearsay as you can get. Provide documentation from shrinks, doctors, law enforcement, court testimony or wherever to back up your claims. Rhetoric does not kill people. I would posit the polarization in media and the Internet has done much more harm in pissing people off or pushing them over the edge. Funny how RI is supposed to be this super cool place to explore MK Ultra and other nefarious programs, but when it comes to linking fucked up shit that either our government or corporations are involved in the default is always political. I'm sure that D.C. Beltway shooter was driven mad by Dubya! No way was he programmed at all. :roll:
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