The Syria Thread 2011 - Present

[AlicetheKurious]

anybody else thinking (tho not surprised), given its geopolitical staggeringness - not nearly by half enough coming out of the Russian bombing, and the Chinese support......

should i be going to AlJazeera? - am going to RT....interested to see what kind of gloss they will give it

admittedly has been only a few days, but whilst there's no deafening silence, the opaqueness is very opaque.
- perhaps they've got to re-calibrate the hypocrisy quotient filters on the wurlitzer before trying to push 'destabilising' or 'aggressive' or 'invasion' through it again?

Funny you should mention that, zangtang. News coverage and analysis of the Russian campaign in Syria is pretty much wall-to-wall on tv, and on social media over here in the Arab world. I've been monitoring international news channels too, and it's the big story on BBC World, France 24 and of course on Russian and Iranian channels. But there's been a shooting in the US, and of course Trump...you know.

It's not surprising the US channels are less than eager to broadcast what's happening, because it's truly scandalous:

- Russia has done more to cripple "ISIS"/Daesh, and destroyed more terrorist camps and weapons storage facilities in Syria in just a few days, than the US has done in months of bombing (during which "ISIS"/Daesh grew exponentially bigger and richer and better armed);

- Russia estimates that the operation to clean out "ISIS"/Daesh will take no more than 3-4 months. The US estimated that its own campaign, leading a coalition of 40 countries, including major military powers, would take at least three years;

- "ISIS"/Daesh fighters are abandoning their camps and desperately trying to flee from Syria. Fascinatingly, when the US was supposedly fighting "ISIS"/Daesh in Syria, there was an huge surge in "ISIS"/Daesh terrorists flocking to Syria;

- The photos used by the Americans to "prove" that Russia was killing civilians, turned out to have been taken days before the Russian operation began, and were unrelated; meanwhile, the Americans bombed a Medecins Sans Frontieres hospital in Afghanistan, killing volunteer doctors and burning patients alive, and now MSF is demanding that the US be investigated for war crimes;

- In a Senate hearing, it came out that the US spent $500 million training and arming "moderate Syrian opposition fighters", only to have them surrender all their weapons and equipment to the Islamic terrorists and either pledge their allegiance to "Al-Qaeda" or flee, leaving a grand total of "4 or 5" actual US-trained "moderate" fighters still on the ground;



- In the past 48 hours, Syrian insurgents have been rushing to surrender their weapons to the Syrian Army, and to sign affidavits pledging never to take up arms against the state again, in exchange for amnesty;

- The government of Iraq has officially invited Russia to expand its destruction of "ISIS"/Daesh into Iraq;

- There has been much hilarity over the US' claims that Russia is hitting the "wrong" targets in Syria, in one instance reportedly claiming that "ISIS"/Daesh was actually located "6.5 kilometers" away from the Russian target. Which begs the question: if you know exactly where they are, why didn't YOU target them?

- The Russians bombed a convoy of trucks transporting stolen Syrian oil to Turkey, something that the US never did, for some reason.

Oh, and lots of other stuff. I can hardly keep up. President Assad's popularity has surged far beyond Syria's borders, and as for Putin...let's just say he's The Man.

Concerning Al-Jazeera, don't forget "ISIS"/Daesh represents a LOT of Qatari money, now going up in smoke, and that's reflected in their stupid coverage. Turkey's Erdogan is also freaking out, as are the US and Saudi Arabia (although Egypt is working very hard on Saudi Arabia, trying to knock some sense into them.)

Mind you, there have been some bright spots in American media coverage, including this interview last Spring with President Assad by Charlie Rose for CBS News. It's very informative and well worth investing 26 minutes to watch, if you missed it before:

[norton ash]

^^ Thanks, Alice.

[AlicetheKurious]

[zangtang]

many thanks for that, getting stuck in.

I hope there aren't too many pardons being bandied about - I fully concede I want most if not all of them killed stone dead. When i say most, i mean 98% at least.
no need for vengeance or torture - just one bullet apiece.

Also I hesitate to speak for my whole country, but the teenage idiot ones from England who found the siren call of 'radicalisation' impossible to resist? - don't really want them back.Much prefer them dead.

[AlicetheKurious]

I'm certain the amnesty only applies to actual Syrians who demonstrate that their genuine regret and vow in writing never to take up arms against their country again. As for the others, especially the foreign infiltrators, they're fair game. Don't forget that there are an estimated 2,500 Russians among them, and Russia sure doesn't want them back, either.

[General Patton]

Western intelligence agencies rely almost exclusively on SIGINT to get actionable information. NSA (#1), Navy and AirForce do most of the heavy lifting. Whenever they get HUMINT it's almost through allies, e.g. Israel (which has given them a lot of leverage in ME ForPol). As much as people bitch about drone strikes, I've heard a lot of rumors over the last several months of sorties coming back fully loaded because the US couldn't find targets to hit.

Putin isn't a strategic genius but he can at least formulate a clear goal and leverage his competent intelligence services to execute it. I have no problem with ruthless intelligence agencies, as long as they accomplish their job. And their intelligence generally does and at a fraction of the cost that western agencies incur. Their counter-terrorism record is tactically incompetent and sloppy but strategically solid. They can win the long game even with repeated blunders. This stands in contrast to the US that has tactically brilliant (and expensive) maneuvers that lack serious strategic merit (lol hearts and minds). Putin isn't getting himself into a quagmire here, unlike when the West intervenes. Russia has set itself a place at the head of the table.

[AlicetheKurious]

So it's "incompetence"? That seems to be the go-to cure for cognitive dissonance arising from any information about the US and its actions in the Middle East.

[General Patton]

So it's "incompetence"? That seems to be the go-to cure for cognitive dissonance arising from any information about the US and its actions in the Middle East.

Yeah that's about the size of it. The US has failed again and again in it's attempts to project power in the region or balance powers against each other. They even fucked up the proxy war and aftermaths of revolutions they nurtured. Unless you think the Pentagon wanted to get pants'd by Russia.

[AlicetheKurious]

Not at all. America's opponents called its bluff, and now the US is being hoist on its own petard. America had a plan, but also fatal hubris. Its backroom conspirators overestimate their own cleverness, and too often flatter themselves, that's all.

[Nordic]

I just have to repost what I stayed on the Oregon college shooting thread. I think what's going on in Syria is a major turning point in history:

Consider this:

We just witnessed what is the biggest military and political blunder of my life time. And I'm not young. Obama and his idiot neo-con pals just had their ASSES handed to them by the rest of the world. This is possibly the most embarrassing event to ever happen to the United States.

Obama and the U.S. are in the position of defending Al Queda terrorists and admitting they funded and trained these enemies of the state in order to destabilize Iraq. Aiding and abetting the enemy, the very people they claim attacked us on 9-11 and who we have been fighting and killing for 14 years.

That is treason, pure and simple. The enormity of this is pretty fucking enormous. But it's not even the half of it.

The U.S. also just got played by Russia so hard, with Putin pulling the rug out from under them so quickly and with such sudden force that their asses haven't even hit the ground yet. It's a glorious thing to witness, actually, with Russia suddenly in the drivers seat, destroying our terrorist proxy force and forcing the U.S. to admit that ISIS is indeed the US proxy force. Gosh no wonder we couldn't/wouldn't kill these fools.

I mean the U.S. just fucking completely imploded in the last five days over this. They admitted publicly all those they trained went right to ISIS, the money went to ISIS, their public plan to train and equip "moderate" terrorists publicly and humiliatingly exposed as a complete joke, then Germany - Germany!!! -- abandoning them and SUPPORTING RUSSIA!! -- then even the Chinese getting in on the act, bringing their aircraft carrier to Syria, and now the Russians own Syria with barely lifting a finger, and now Iran is going to help them as well? This is the biggest "go fuck yourself" I have EVER seen the U.S. have to eat, and the biggest humiliation I've ever seen, probably worse than throwing those helicopters into the ocean during the evacuation of Saigon. .

Treason, failure, utter humiliation, total exposure as enemies of the statw.


My main points I don't see people addressing: the loss of German support for the U.S. Huge!

Treason. Hello?! We've been supporting, arming, training and funding the people "who attacked us on 9/11". That is aiding and abetting the enemy!! Our entire government guilty of treason. When is anybody gonna call it?

[backtoiam]

I am not insinuating that this is the case but my cynical side never sleeps.

Alice do you think it is a possibility that the U.S. is secretly playing footsy under the table with Russia? Is it possible that the factions armed by the U.S. have become so unmanageable that in order to save face they are letting Russia clean up the mess? Maybe after it is cleaned up Russia and the U.S. have agreed on a split of the spoils?

[justdrew]

My main points I don't see people addressing: the loss of German support for the U.S. Huge!

well, I did say in the Volkswagen thread, which I remind broke days before Russian action began, that the US appeared to be pissed at Germany. Suddenly the EPA grows teeth? all by itself? doubtful. suddenly some 'intellectual science report' is driving policy and costing billions of dollars, when has that ever happened before?

[justdrew]

I am not insinuating that this is the case but my cynical side never sleeps.

Alice do you think it is a possibility that the U.S. is secretly playing footsy under the table with Russia? Is it possible that the factions armed by the U.S. have become so unmanageable that in order to save face they are letting Russia clean up the mess? Maybe after it is cleaned up Russia and the U.S. have agreed on a split of the spoils?

well, I'm not Alice, but... it's a slight possibility, one thing I thought possible is that ISIS has been setup as a honeypot, attracting and concentrating willing militants, so that when the time is right, it'll be easy to liquidate them, why Russia is getting to do the deed, I don't know, maybe everyone was sick of waiting for the trap to be spring, which was seeming to never quite happen.

[tapitsbo]

If all this spreads to a more direct, open war between Russia and the Saudis, etc. it would weaken/overstretch both.

[seemslikeadream]

how long will the world let the Untied States government get away with war crimes?

Doctors Without Borders closes Afghan hospital, says U.S. may have committed war crime

sooner or later someone has to go to the Hague