Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby barracuda » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:00 am

divideandconquer wrote:As someone else posted on another site:

So you’ve just committed an act of terror, allegedly.

A few days pass and the investigators still don’t know who you are.

Plenty of time to leave the city, the state, even the country. But you don’t. You stay right there.

To avoid recognition, you could alter your appearance, shave your head, grow some facial hair etc., but you don’t.

Even if you are going to remain in the area, you’re going to “lay low”, not draw any attention to yourselves. But you don’t.

Instead, you go on a crime spree, allegedly shooting a police officer at MIT, robbing a 7-11, then carjacking a Mercedes…

So whats going on here.


All of this makes sense if you were expecting a ride that doesn't show up.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby elfismiles » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:02 am

Ah-fucking-men-Ra bro's and sis' y'all.

divideandconquer wrote:Is it not a bit ironic that April 19 marks the beginning of the Revolutionary War, the Battles of Lexington and Concord? A war for our freedom and liberty. And today, April 19, in the same state, citizens on lockdown in fear of one 19-yr old with a pipe bomb and a gun? An entire city shuts down? Citizens turning over phones and cameras to aid in the capture of this 19-yr old "terrorist."? Extrajudicial punishments? Indefinite detentions? No Miranda rights? No right to a jury trial? No due process?

A sad day, indeed.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Fresno_Layshaft » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:05 am

FourthBase wrote:And no, not like any other East Coast city. A little bit better.
And that little bit might make all the difference.
Because we're not done reacting.
Could go wrong.
Could go right.

Before you make your unjustifiably-certain pronouncements: WAIT. And see. And help.
Right now, though? YOU'RE NOT HELPING.



What are you talking about? You're not done reacting? What does that even mean? Are you gonna send Rondo & Garnett on a commando mission to Chechnya? Get some revenge?
Nothing will Change.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby elfismiles » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:09 am


BOSTON MASSACRE 2013
Bomb mom: FBI monitoring my boys for years
Claims images of sons at blast site a 'set up'

Drew Zahn is a WND news editor who cut his journalist teeth as a member of the award-winning staff of Leadership, Christianity Today's professional journal for church leaders. A former pastor, he is the editor of seven books, including Movie-Based Illustrations for Preaching & Teaching, which sparked his ongoing love affair with film and his weekly WND column, "Popcorn and a (world)view."

The mother of two brothers believed to be responsible for the Boston Marathon bombing insists her sons are innocent and were “set up,” according to a telephone interview with RT-TV, also known as Russia Today.

RT reports it had the accused Boston Marathon bombers’ mother, Zubeidat Tsarnaeva, on the telephone from Makhachkala in Russia’s Republic of Dagestan in the North Caucasus region.

“What I can say is I am really sure, I am like 100-percent sure that this is a set-up,” the woman said. “My two sons are really innocent, and I know that neither of them never, never have talked about whatever they’re saying about now, and what I want to say is … my youngest one was raised actually … from 8 years, he was raised in America, and my oldest son, he is like really, really proper raised in our house, never, nobody talked about terrorism.”

The suspects in the bombing on April 15 that reportedly killed three people and wounded 183 others are 19-year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, who remains at large, and his brother, 26-year-old Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who was killed after a police car chase. Their family originates from Russia’s North Caucasus, but settled in the United States more than a decade ago.

“My son, Tamerlan, really got involved in … religious politics five years ago,” the woman continued. “So he started following his own [religion], and he never, never told me that he would be, like, on the side of jihad; and whatever they are talking, [whoever] is talking about, him being a loser, [they] are the losers.”

In fact, it was the suspects’ uncle, Ruslan Tsarni, who used the term “losers” in an interview in which he speculated his nephews may have been motivated by “hatred” because they were unable to “settle themselves” in America. He begged the young men to turn themselves in and later insisted he wasn’t talking about his nephews as the “losers,” but only “those who are able to make this atrocity.”

“My son would never do this. It is a set-up,” the woman continued in her interview with RT. “He was controlled by FBI for like, three, five years. They knew what my son was doing. They knew what actions and what sites on the Internet he was going. He used to come home, they used to come and talk to me. They used to tell me that, you know, that they are controlling his – they were telling me that he’s really a serious leader and they’re afraid of him. They said, they told me that whatever he is, whatever country decides, whatever is there, whatever information he’s getting, they are controlling him, so how could this happen? How could they – they were controlling every step of him, and they’re telling today that this is a terrorist act. Never, ever! This is not true. My two sons are innocent.”

See “Jihad in America: The Grand Deception,” which reveals the threat that is hidden in plain sight for Americans.

The RT reporter speaking with her asked how she might explain the violent chase the young men were involved in, firing at police and throwing explosives from their vehicle.

“I never believe into it, I never believe into it,” she said. “I know my sons never talk about those things. I am a mother, I raised them. They were highly intelligent. The FBI were scared of my oldest son; they always told me that he was a leader. They were afraid of him because they think that he’s a leader. He talks about Islam a lot, and that they told me what they were talking to my son, and they called me officially, and they told me that my son is an excellent boy and they have no problem with that. … At the same time they were telling that he’s like a, he’s getting the information in a really, extremic [sp] site. So that’s why I think that it’s a set-up.”

The reporter pressed, asking her if she saw any chance her boys were hiding “a side” of themselves from her.

“It’s impossible,” she said. “Impossible for both of them to do such things, so I’m really, really, really telling that this is a set-up. My son would tell me; my son never would keep it in secret, so I would know. … If there was anyone who would be knowing, it would be me. Mother. He would never hide it from me. He would tell me that, but never, never even a word.”

What message might she have for her son still on the loose, the reporter asked.

“I would say, save your life and tell them the truth, that you haven’t done anything, that this is a set-up,” she replied.

The interview can be heard below:

In a similar interview, the suspects’ father, speaking to Reuters TV and translated into English, declared the boys innocent as well.

“Somebody clearly framed them. I don’t know who exactly framed them, but they did. They framed them,” he said. “And they were so cowardly that they shot the boy dead. There are policemen like that.”

He continued, saying, “I can’t reach anyone (on the phone). I want to know about my children. I’m scared for my boy – that they will shoot him dead too somewhere. And then they’ll just say, ‘He had weapons.’ Where can kids get weapons, for God’s sake? They are picking them at a rubbish dump, those weapons?”

The interview with the father can be heard below:

In an interview on CNN’s “The Lead with Jake Tapper,” Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., said it is “offensive” that the suspected bombers’ parents would say the U.S. framed their sons.

King called their accusations “absolutely wrong and really offensive,” given the U.S. “gave (the sons) sanctuary, gave them asylum.”

“It’s bad enough what their sons did. But for their parents to attack the country, to me is wrong,” he said. “To be lashing out at the United States after what the United States did for them and the opportunities the United States gave to their sons is really going much, much too far and I just find it really wrong.”

Meanwhile, Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s in-laws released a statement condemning the suspected bombers’ actions, according to NBC News.

“In the aftermath of the Patriot’s Day horror, we know that we never knew Tamerlane Tsarnaev,” the statement said, using an alternate spelling of the older suspect’s first name.

They continued, “Our hearts are sickened by the knowledge of the horror he has inflicted.”

Another uncle to the suspects, Alviz Tsarni, said, “I don’t know how to say, I don’t feel anything. I’m just tired of everything.’”

Asked if he’s worried about his nephew, the remaining suspect, Tsarni asked, “What can happen to him? They will kill him. We know it, right? We don’t have to worry about this. What’s done is done.”

Tsarni added, “I’m very sorry for what happened,” he said. “From the first day, I was very sorry. I said, ‘Who can do like this stuff just for innocent people? Who? I don’t know what to say. Unbelievable. I don’t believe it now, even now.”

Tsarni said when he sees the evidence, “then I will know they did it.”

“I can’t believe it now, guys, believe me.”

The bombing suspects’ aunt said, “My first reaction was anger. How could this happen? How could this do this? For what? For the sake of what? What beliefs? What prompted them to this, this reaction?

“But then, I went through the material, whatever is in there. Quickly, quickly. My first call to FBI, ‘They could not have done this. Where is evidence? All you’re showing is just footage. Two guys are walking. I found it strange Tamerlan is walking in the front. Dzhokhar is in the back. Why wouldn’t they come together? you know? Together as brothers, as I used to know them.”

Asked if she is suspicious that the brothers really did bomb the Boston Marathon, she said, “No, I’m suspicious that this was staged! The picture was staged.”

When reporters asked the aunt who she believes is staging her nephews, she responded, “Whoever needs this. Whoever is looking for those who need to be blamed for these attacks. … who is interested in this case? When you’re blowing up people and you want to bring attention to something for some purpose, you do that math.”

The aunt also insisted her nephews “are normal young men, athletic … smart” and Tamerlan “seemingly didn’t find himself yet in America, because it’s not easy.”

Are you surprised, like the media and government, that the terrorists were Muslims?

Yes, I really thought this time they were going to be right-wing extremists
Yes, the media kept suggesting this was going to be white Christians
Yes, but I was really hoping that wouldn't be the case
Yes, I really thought it would be North Koreans this time
Yes, statisticaly speaking, odds are that at least one time it would be a non-Muslim terrorist attack
I agree with the mother: This was a false-flag setup
I had no preconceived notions. After all, it's pointless
No, wasn't it obvious?
No, I figured that was the case even before Erik Rush speculated about it
No, anyone with half a brain and any discernment knew who the two suspects were
No, virtually every terror act in the world is committed by Muslims in the name of Islam
No, every day they tell us they're at war with us. Why should we be surprised?
Other

http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/bombing-susp ... -a-set-up/

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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby divideandconquer » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:10 am

And no, not like any other East Coast city. A little bit better.


Well, except maybe for the accent and baseball team, you may have a point.
'I see clearly that man in this world deceives himself by admiring and esteeming things which are not, and neither sees nor esteems the things which are.' — St. Catherine of Genoa
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:11 am

Fresno_Layshaft wrote:
FourthBase wrote:And no, not like any other East Coast city. A little bit better.
And that little bit might make all the difference.
Because we're not done reacting.
Could go wrong.
Could go right.

Before you make your unjustifiably-certain pronouncements: WAIT. And see. And help.
Right now, though? YOU'RE NOT HELPING.



What are you talking about? You're not done reacting? What does that even mean? Are you gonna send Rondo on a commando mission to Chechnya? Get some revenge?


No, you fucking tool, it means we'll we may demand the truth.
It means we'll we may resist any attempt to foist long-term police-state shit on us.
"But you all obediently sat at home today! You clapped for federal police! The pigs!"
Yes, right? That's the uncomprehending crap you were going to post? Save it.
We did all that for ONE DAY, because there was apparently...

A MEGA-TRAINED MEGA-ARMED MANIAC ON THE LOOSE WHO WAS FRIGHTENINGLY GOOD AT EVADING AND FENDING OFF THE LARGEST MANHUNT OF ALL FUCKING TIME.

Try, try, please fucking try to make some reasonable distinctions.
You can't possibly be this debilitated by cynicism.

All of you temporarily disabled by cynical idiocy:
Put away your Worst Possible Interpretation machine.
Garbage in, garbage out. Enough of the garbage. ENOUGH.

Edited a bunch, last edit to be more realistic, provisional.
Because we don't know for sure yet. Could go wrong. Could go right.
Less likely to go wrong if you quit the cynical shit and help sleuth.
Last edited by FourthBase on Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:21 am, edited 6 times in total.
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that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby SonicG » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:11 am

I do wonder how the repercussions with Russia will play out. Perhaps subtly in the spook underworld or perhaps not...it is interesting that the older brother was investigated by the FBI at the behest of Russia.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby elfismiles » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:20 am


Why Should I Care That No One’s Reading Dzhokhar Tsarnaev His Miranda Rights?
When the law gets bent out of shape for him, it’s easier to bend out of shape of the rest of us.

By Emily Bazelon | Posted Friday, April 19, 2013, at 11:29 PM
In this image released by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) on April 19, 2013, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, 19-years-old, a suspect in the Boston Marathon bombing is seen.
Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.

Photo provided by FBI via Getty Images

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev will not hear his Miranda rights before the FBI questions him Friday night. He will have to remember on his own that he has a right to a lawyer, and that anything he says can be used against him in court, because the government won’t tell him. This is an extension of a rule the Justice Department wrote for the FBI—without the oversight of any court—called the “public safety exception.”

There is one specific circumstance in which it makes sense to hold off on Miranda. It’s exactly what the name of the exception suggests. The police can interrogate a suspect without offering him the benefit of Miranda if he could have information that’s of urgent concern for public safety. That may or may not be the case with Tsarnaev. The problem is that Attorney General Eric Holder has stretched the law beyond that scenario. And that should trouble anyone who worries about the police railroading suspects, which can end in false confessions. No matter how unsympathetic accused terrorists are, the precedents the government sets for them matter outside the easy context of questioning them. When the law gets bent out of shape for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, it’s easier to bend out of shape of the rest of us.

Here’s the legal history. In the 1984 case New York v. Quarles, the Supreme Court carved out the public safety exception for a man suspected of rape. The victim said her assailant had a gun, and he was wearing an empty holster. So the police asked him where the gun was before reading him his Miranda rights. That exception was allowable, the court said, because of the immediate threat that the gun posed.
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Fine. Good, even—that gun could have put other people in danger. Things start to get murkier in 2002, after the FBI bobbled the interrogation of Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th 9/11 hijacker—the one who didn’t get on the plane—former FBI special agent Coleen Rowley wrote a memo pleading that "if prevention rather than prosecution is to be our new main goal, (an objective I totally agree with), we need more guidance on when we can apply the Quarles 'public safety' exception to Miranda's 5th Amendment requirements." For a while, nothing much happened.

Then the Christmas Day bomber, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, was apprehended in December 2009, before he could blow up a plane bound for Detroit. The FBI invoked the public safety exception and interrogated. When the agents stopped questioning Abdulmutallab after 50 minutes and Mirandized him—after getting what they said was valuable information— Abdulmutallab asked for a lawyer and stopped talking. Republicans in Congress denounced the Obama administration for going soft.

Next came Faisal Shahzad, caught for attempting to bomb Times Square in May 2010. He was interrogated without Miranda warnings via the public safety exception, and again, the FBI said it got useful information. This time, when the suspect was read his rights, he kept talking. But that didn’t stop Sen. John McCain and then Sen. Christopher Bond from railing against Miranda. "We've got to be far less interested in protecting the privacy rights of these terrorists than in collecting information that may lead us to details of broader schemes to carry out attacks in the United States," Bond said. "When we detain terrorism suspects, our top priority should be finding out what intelligence they have that could prevent future attacks and save American lives," McCain said. "Our priority should not be telling them they have a right to remain silent."

Holder started talking about a bill to broadly expand the exception to Miranda a few months later. Nothing came of that idea, but in October of 2010, Holder’s Justice Department took it upon itself to widen the exception to Miranda beyond the Supreme Court’s 1984 ruling. “Agents should ask any and all questions that are reasonably prompted by an immediate concern for the safety of the public or the arresting agents,” stated a DoJ memo to the FBI that wasn’t disclosed at the time. Again, fine and good. But the memo continues, “there may be exceptional cases in which, although all relevant public safety questions have been asked, agents nonetheless conclude that continued unwarned interrogation is necessary to collect valuable and timely intelligence not related to any immediate threat, and that the government's interest in obtaining this intelligence outweighs the disadvantages of proceeding with unwarned interrogation.”

Who gets to make this determination? The FBI, in consultation with DoJ, if possible. In other words, the police and the prosecutors, with no one to check their power.

The New York Times published the Justice Department’s memo in March 2011. The Supreme Court has yet to consider this hole the Obama administration has torn in Miranda. In fact, no court has, as far as I can tell.

And so the FBI will surely ask 19-year-old Tsarnaev anything it sees fit. Not just what law enforcement needs to know to prevent a terrorist threat and keep the public safe but anything else it deemed related to “valuable and timely intelligence.” Couldn’t that be just about anything about Tsarnaev’s life, or his family, given that his alleged accomplice was his older brother (killed in a shootout with police)? There won’t be a public uproar. Whatever the FBI learns will be secret: We won’t know how far the interrogation went. And besides, no one is crying over the rights of the young man who is accused of killing innocent people, helping his brother set off bombs that were loaded to maim, and terrorizing Boston Thursday night and Friday. But the next time you read about an abusive interrogation, or a wrongful conviction that resulted from a false confession, think about why we have Miranda in the first place. It’s to stop law enforcement authorities from committing abuses. Because when they can make their own rules, sometime, somewhere, they inevitably will.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... orism.html



Home • Stats & Services • Reports and Publications • LEB • February 2011 • The “Public Safety” Exception to Miranda

The "Public Safety" Exception to Miranda

By CARL A. BENOIT, J.D.

police officers at a scene

After 44 years, the Miranda decision stands as a monolith in police procedure.1 Its requirements are so well known that the Supreme Court remarked, "Miranda has become embedded in routine police practice to the point where the warnings have become part of our national culture."2 And, although the Supreme Court has clarified and refined Miranda over the years, its central requirements are clear.3 Whenever the prosecution seeks in its direct case to introduce a statement made by a suspect while in custody and in response to interrogation, it must prove that the subject was warned of specific rights and voluntarily waived those rights.4 The penalty imposed on the prosecution for failing to prove that the Miranda procedures were properly followed is harsh. While some secondary and limited uses of statements obtained in violation of Miranda are permitted, such statements are presumed to be coerced and cannot be introduced by the prosecution in its direct case.5

The strength of the Miranda decision is its clarity in its nearly unwavering protection of a suspect's Fifth Amendment protection against selfincrimination. The commitment to this rule is so strong that the Supreme Court has recognized only one exception to the Miranda rule—the "public safety" exception—which permits law enforcement to engage in a limited and focused unwarned interrogation and allows the government to introduce the statement as direct evidence.

Recent and well-publicized events, including the attempted bombing of Northwest Airlines Flight 235 near Detroit, Michigan, on December 25, 2009, and the attempted bombing in New York City's Times Square in May 2010, highlight the importance of this exception.6 Those current events, occurring in a time of heightened vigilance against terrorist acts, place a spotlight on this law enforcement tool, which, although 26 years old, may play a vital role in protecting public safety while also permitting statements obtained under this exception to be used as evidence in a criminal prosecution. In brief, and as discussed in this article, police officers confronting situations that create a danger to themselves or others may ask questions designed to neutralize the threat without first providing a warning of rights. This article discusses the origins of the public safety exception and provides guidance for law enforcement officers confronted with an emergency that may require interrogating a suspect held in custody about an imminent threat to public safety without providing Miranda warnings.
Special Agent Benoit Recent and well-publicized events...highlight the importance of this exception.
Special Agent Benoit serves as a legal instructor at the FBI Academy.

ORIGIN OF THE RULE

The origin of the public safety exception to Miranda, the case of New York v. Quarles, began in the early morning hours of September 11, 1980. While on routine patrol in Queens, New York, two New York City police officers were approached by a young woman who told them that she had just been raped. She described the assailant as a black male, approximately 6 feet tall, wearing a leather jacket with "Big Ben" printed in yellow letters on the back. The woman told the officers that the man had just entered a nearby supermarket and that he was carrying a gun.

The officers drove to the supermarket, and one entered the store while the other radioed for assistance. A man matching the description was near a checkout counter, but upon seeing the officer, ran to the back of the store. The officer pursued the subject, but lost sight of him for several seconds as the individual turned a corner at the end of an aisle. Upon finding the subject, the officer ordered him to stop and to put his hands over his head. As backup personnel arrived, the officer frisked the man and discovered he was wearing an empty shoulder holster. After handcuffing him, the officer asked where the gun was. The man gestured toward empty milk cartons and said, "The gun is over there." The officer found and removed a loaded handgun from a carton, formally placed the man under arrest, and then read the Miranda rights to him. The man waived his rights and answered questions about the ownership of the gun and where it was purchased.7

The state of New York charged the man, identified as Benjamin Quarles, for criminal possession of a weapon.8 The trial court excluded the statement "The gun is over there," as well as the handgun, on the grounds that the officer did not give Quarles the warnings required by Miranda v. Arizona. 9 After an appellate court affirmed the decision, the case was appealed to the New York State Court of Appeals.

The New York Court of Appeals upheld the trial court decision by a 4 to 3 vote.10 According to the New York Court of Appeals, because Quarles responded "to the police interrogation while he was in custody, [and] before he had been given the preinterrogation warnings…," the lower courts properly suppressed the statement and the gun.11 The court refused to recognize an emergency exception to Miranda and noted that even if there were such an exception, there was "no evidence in the record before us that there were exigent circumstances posing a risk to the public safety or that the police interrogation was prompted by such concern."12 In dissent, Judge Watchler believed that there was a public safety exception to Miranda and that the facts presented such a situation. Judge Watchler noted that "Miranda was never intended to enable a criminal defendant to thwart official attempts to protect the general public against an imminent, immediate and grave risk of serious physical harm reasonably perceived."13 He also believed there was "a very real threat of possible physical harm which could result from a weapon being at large."14 The state of New York appealed the case to the Supreme Court.

The Quarles case provides a framework that police officers can use to assess a particular situation, determine whether the exception is available, and ensure that their questioning remains within the scope of the rule.The Supreme Court ruled on these facts that a public safety exception to Miranda existed. To understand how the Court reached this conclusion and the implications of this exception on the admissibility of the statement and the handgun, a consideration of a summary of the steps used by the Court is important.

The first step toward this conclusion was a discussion by the Court of the relationship between the Miranda requirements and the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The Fifth Amendment provides that "[n]o person…shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself."15 The Fifth Amendment "does not prohibit all incriminating admissions," only those that are "officially coerced selfaccusations…." 16 In Miranda, the Supreme Court "for the first time extended the Fifth Amendment privilege against compulsory self-incrimination to individuals subjected to custodial interrogation by the police."17 Thus, Miranda created a presumption that "interrogation in custodial circumstances is inherently coercive" and that statements obtained under those circumstances "are inadmissible unless the subject is specifically informed of his Miranda rights and freely decides to forgo those rights."18 Importantly, the Court noted that Miranda warnings were not required by the Constitution, but were prophylactic measures designed to provide protection for the Fifth Amendment privilege against selfincrimination. 19

After providing this explanation of the relationship between the Fifth Amendment and Miranda, the Court explained that Quarles did not claim that his statements were "actually compelled by police conduct which overcame his will to resist."20 Had police officers obtained an involuntary or coerced statement from Quarles in violation of the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment, both the statement and the handgun would have been suppressed. 21 And, in this regard, the Court explained that the failure to administer Miranda warnings does not, standing alone, make a confession involuntary in violation of the Constitution. 22

person being placed under arrestThe Supreme Court then proceeded to determine whether the Miranda rule was implicated in this case and agreed with the New York Court of Appeals that it was. The Court agreed with the New York courts that Quarles was in custody. As the Court noted, "Quarles was surrounded by at least four police officers and was handcuffed when the questioning at issue took place."23 Therefore, on the facts of the case, the Court found that the Miranda decision was clearly implicated. The Court then referred to the determination by the New York courts that there was nothing in the record indicating that any of the police officers were concerned with their safety when they questioned Quarles. The Supreme Court noted that the New York Court of Appeals did not address the issue of whether there was an exception to Miranda in cases that involve a danger to the public "because the lower courts in New York made no factual determination that the police had acted with that motive."24

The Supreme Court chose to address whether a public safety exception to Miranda should exist. In this regard, the Court held that: "there is a 'public safety' exception to the requirement that Miranda warnings be given before a suspect's answers may be admitted into evidence, and the exception does not depend upon the motivation of the individual officers involved."25 Thus, according to the Court, without regard to the actual motivation of the individual officers, Miranda need not be strictly followed in situations "in which police officers ask questions reasonably prompted by a concern for the public safety."26

The Court then applied the facts to the situation confronting them when Quarles was arrested. In the course of arresting Quarles, it became apparent that Quarles had removed the handgun and discarded it within the store. While the location of the handgun remained undetermined, it posed a danger to public safety.27 In this case, the officer needed an answer to the question about the location of the gun to ensure that its concealment in a public location would not endanger the public. The immediate questioning of Quarles was directed specifically at resolving this emergency. Since the questioning of Quarles was prompted by concern for public safety, the officers were not required to provide Miranda warnings to Quarles first. Therefore, the statement made by Quarles about the location of the handgun was admissible.28 In addition, because the Court found there was no violation of Miranda, the handgun also was admissible. The Court declined to address whether the handgun would have been suppressed if the statements were found to be inadmissible.29

FRAMEWORK OF THE EXCEPTION

The Quarles case provides a framework that police officers can use to assess a particular situation, determine whether the exception is available, and ensure that their questioning remains within the scope of the rule. This framework includes the presence of a public safety concern, limited questioning, and voluntariness.

Public Safety Concern

According to the Supreme Court, the public safety exception is triggered when police officers have an objectively reasonable need to protect the police or the public from immediate danger. Because the standard is objective, the availability of the exception does not depend on subjective motivation of the officers. Legitimate concerns for officer safety or public safety prompting unwarned custodial questioning arise in a variety of contexts. A common factor that can be gleaned from the courts addressing this issue is the prior knowledge or awareness of specific facts or circumstances that give rise to the imminent safety concern that prompted the questioning.

...the public safety exception is triggered when police officers have an objectively reasonable need to protect the police or the public from immediate danger.For example, in U.S. v. Talley, police officers executing a federal arrest warrant at a residence heard sounds indicating that a number of unexpected people were inside the home.30 The officers returned to their vehicles to get their bulletproof vests and then returned to the front door. After the defendant and another individual were secured by a police officer just inside the residence, the officer noticed other people inside the house who had not complied with the demand to come outside. The officer entered further into the residence to gain control of the unsecured subjects and tripped over a trash can that contained bullets and a magazine for a semiautomatic pistol. The officer returned to the two subjects and asked, "Where is the gun?" The defendant told the officer that the gun was inside a vacuum cleaner, from where it was retrieved. The defendant sought to suppress the gun, claiming the officer did not provide him his Miranda warnings first. The district court suppressed the defendant's statement, finding a violation of Miranda. The circuit court reversed and upheld the admissibility of the statement. The court stressed the context of the arrest in finding that the public safety exception was applicable. The court stated that "[o]nce Officer Rush had seen the magazine, he had reason to believe a gun was nearby and was justified, under Quarles, in asking his question prior to administering a Miranda warning."31

In U.S. v. Jones, members of a fugitive task force arrested Phillip Jones for a homicide he committed with a handgun on June 27, 2006.32 Members of the task force met on August 10, 2006, the day of the arrest, and were briefed about the nature of the homicide, the possibility that Jones may have two weapons, and that he had two previous convictions for gun and drug offenses. After going to search for Jones in a dangerous high-crime area in northeast Washington, D.C., Deputy U.S. Marshal Cyphers made eye contact with Jones, who immediately fled. The marshal pursued and caught Jones in a partially lit stairwell of an apartment building. At some point during the chase, Cyphers heard a gunshot fired. Within 30 seconds of arresting Jones and before providing the Miranda warnings, Cyphers asked if Jones had anything on him. Jones replied, "I have a burner in my waistband."33 Jones sought to suppress his statement. The circuit court had little difficulty in determining that "Cypher's questions fell squarely within the public safety exception."34 The circuit court stressed the information that Deputy U.S. Marshal Cyphers knew about Jones before making the arrest, as well as the circumstances surrounding the chase and arrest, concluding that the question was prompted by a concern for public safety.

In each of the two cases above, information that came to the attention of the law enforcement officers concerning an immediate threat to safety prompted the officers to ask questions directed at neutralizing the danger. In both cases, the reviewing courts agreed with the officers that the information prompted a public safety concern.

person in handcuffsLimited Questioning

The Quarles Court made clear that only those questions necessary for the police "to secure their own safety or the safety of the public" were permitted under the public safety exception.35 In U.S. v. Khalil, New York City police officers raided an apartment in Brooklyn after they received information that Khalil and Abu Mezer had bombs in their apartment and were planning to detonate them.36 During the raid, both men were shot and wounded as one of them grabbed the gun of a police officer and the other crawled toward a black bag believed to contain a bomb. When the officers looked inside the black bag, they saw pipe bombs and observed that a switch on one bomb was flipped.

Officers went to the hospital to question Abu Mezer about the bombs. They asked Abu Mezer "how many bombs there were, how many switches were on each bomb, which wires should be cut to disarm the bombs, and whether there were any timers."37 Abu Mezer answered each question and also was asked whether he planned to kill himself in the explosion. He responded by saying, "Poof."38

Abu Mezer sought to suppress each of his statements, but the trial court permitted them, ruling that they fell within the public safety exception. On appeal, Abu Mezer only challenged the admissibility of the last question, whether he intended to kill himself when detonating the bombs. He claimed the question was unrelated to public safety. The circuit court disagreed and noted "Abu Mezer's vision as to whether or not he would survive his attempt to detonate the bomb had the potential for shedding light on the bomb's stability."39

A common theme throughout cases such as this is the importance of limiting the interrogation of a subject to questions directed at eliminating the emergency. Following Quarles, at least two federal circuit courts of appeals have addressed the issue of the effect of an invocation of a right on the exception. In U.S. v. De- Santis, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals held that the public safety exception applies even after the invocation of counsel.40 According to the court: "The same consideration that allows the police to dispense with providing Miranda warnings in a public safety situation also would permit them to dispense with the prophylactic safeguard that forbids initiating further questioning of an accused who requests counsel."41

In U.S. v. Mobley, the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals also ruled that the public safety exception applied even when the subject had invoked his right to counsel.42 The court recognized that a threat to public safety still may exist even after Miranda rights are provided and invoked.

Once the questions turn from those designed to resolve the concern for safety to questions designed solely to elicit incriminating statements, the questioning falls...within the traditional rules of Miranda.Voluntariness

Voluntariness is the linchpin of the admissibility of any statement obtained as a result of government conduct.43 Thus, statements obtained by the government under the public safety exception cannot be coerced or obtained through tactics that violate fundamental notions of due process.44 Here, it is worth mentioning that prior to the Miranda decision, the only test used to determine the admissibility of statements in federal court was whether the statement was voluntarily made within the requirements of the due process clause.45 This test requires that a court review the "totality of the circumstances" to determine whether the subject's will was overborne by police conduct. If a court finds that the questioning of a subject, even in the presence of a situation involving public safety, violated due process standards, the statement will be suppressed.46

In the Khalil case, Abu Mezer also argued that the statements he made to police officers while he was in the hospital should be suppressed because they were not voluntary. Testimony from the interviewing agent indicated that although Abu Mezer was in pain, "he was alert, seemed to understand the questions, and gave responsive answers."47 Testimony from the surgeon indicated that Abu Mezer "was alert and had no difficulty understanding her explanation of the surgical procedure he would undergo."48 The district court found that under the totality of the circumstances, Abu Mezer's statements were voluntary, and the court of appeals upheld this determination.

Police officers must be vigilant to ensure that the questioning and other actions of the police, even if prompted by an emergency situation involving public safety, permits subjects to exercise their free will when deciding to answer questions. This exception does not permit police officers to compel a statement from a subject. It simply permits them to question a subject before providing any Miranda warnings to resolve an imminent public safety concern.

CONCLUSION

The "public safety" exception to Miranda is a powerful tool with a modern application for law enforcement. When police officers are confronted by a concern for public safety, Miranda warnings need not be provided prior to asking questions directed at neutralizing an imminent threat, and voluntary statements made in response to such narrowly tailored questions can be admitted at trial. Once the questions turn from those designed to resolve the concern for safety to questions designed solely to elicit incriminating statements, the questioning falls outside the scope of the exception and within the traditional rules of Miranda.

Endnotes

1 Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436 (1966).
2 Dickerson v. U.S., 530 U.S. 428, (2000).
3 Berghuis v. Thompkins, 560 U.S.___ (2010) and Maryland v. Shatzer, 559 U.S.__(2010). See also Jonathan L. Rudd, "The Supreme Court Revisits the Miranda Right to Silence," FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin, September 2010, 25-31; and Kenneth A. Myers, "Fifth Amendment Protection and Break in Custody," FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin, May 2010, 26-32.
4 Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436 (1966).
5 Miranda v. Arizona, 389 U.S. 436; Michigan v. Tucker, 417 U.S. 433 (1974); United States v. Patane, 542 U.S. 630 (2004); Oregon v. Hass, 420 U.S. 714 (1975).
6 Holder, Eric, Letter to Senator Mitch McConnell, United States Department Of Justice. 3 Feb. 2010. Web. 8 December 2010.
7 New York v. Quarles, 467 U.S. 649, 651-652 (1984).
8 There is no indication as to why the state did not pursue the original charge of rape.
9 Quarles at 652.
10 People v. Quarles, 58 N.Y.2d 664 (1982).
11 Id. at 666.
12 Id.
13 Id. at 671.
14 Id.
15 U.S. Const. Amend. V.
16 New York v. Quarles, 467 U.S. 649, 654 (1984). See also Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436, 460-461, 467 (1966).
17 Id.
18 Id.
19 Id. Citing Michigan v. Tucker, 417 U.S. 433 (1974).
20 Id. (emphasis added).
21 Add cite regarding remedy for 5th Amendment violation.
22 Id. at 655 fn. 5.
23 Id.
24 Id. People v. Quarles, 58 N.Y.2d 664, 666 (1982).
25 Id. at 655, 656.
26 Id. at 656.
27 Id. at 657.
28 Id. at 660.
29 Id. See U.S. v. Patane.
30 275 F.3d 560 (6th Circ. 2001).
31 Id. at 564.
32 567 F.3d 712 (D.C. Cir. 2009).
33 Id. at 713-714.
34 Id. at 715.
35 New York v. Quarles, 467 U.S. 649, 659 (1984).
36 214 F.3d 111 (2d Cir. 2000).
37 Id. at 115.
38 Id.
39 Id. at 121.
40 870 F.2d 536 (9th Cir. 1989).
41 Id. at 541.
42 40 F.3d 688 (4th Cir. 1994).
43 Colorado v. Connelly, 479 U.S. 157 (1986).
44 New York v. Quarles, 467 U.S. at 655. The Quarles Court made clear that Quarles did not make any claim that the police compelled his statements. The Court also noted that Quarles was free to argue "that his statement was coerced under traditional due process standards." Id. at 655 fn. 5.
45 See New York v. Quarles, 467 U.S. 649, 661 (1984) (Justice O'Connor concurring in the judgment and dissenting in part).
46 See U.S. v. Patane, (2004) (Plurality opinion); Chavez v. Martinez, 538 U.S. 760 (2003) (Plurality opinion).
47 214 F.3d 111, 121 (2d Cir. 2000).
48 Id.

________________________________________________________
Law enforcement officers of other than federal jurisdiction who are interested in this article should consult their legal advisors. Some police procedures ruled permissible under federal constitutional law are of questionable legality under state law or are not permitted at all.

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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby elfismiles » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:22 am

Always good advice to be reminded of ... I'm trying all the time.

FourthBase wrote:
All of you temporarily disabled by cynical idiocy:
Put away your Worst Possible Interpretation machine.
Garbage in, garbage out. Enough of the garbage. ENOUGH.

Edited a bunch, last edit to be more realistic, provisional.
Because we don't know for sure yet. Could go wrong. Could go right.
Less likely to go wrong if you quit the cynical shit and help sleuth.
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the claw end of a hammer

Postby IanEye » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:24 am

82_28 wrote:I don't know what you mean by that, Ian. However, there is no good to come out of this.



where are you going to run to?


i spent this whole week wanting to beat people to a pulp with the claw end of a hammer.

for the most part, my community just chilled, they didn't get goaded by Rupert Murdoch.
We like to tar & feather people here in Boston. But that Moraccan kid that Murdoch tried to finger didn't get fucked up.

It is impressive when people like the Egyptians can bring down a corrupt government by refusing to participate, Mario Savio style.
I say it is equally impressive when a community stays home so that a terrorist can't blend in with the crowd, because there is no crowd.

The Boston Marathon isn't some NASCAR oval where people run in a circle until they have gone 26 miles.

You plant a bomb at the finish line, you've angered every mile of that road.

Every neighborhood wants to shred your flesh.

We will fucking kill you, but we will be patient, and do it our way.

so, if you are being given a bad jacket. you had better turn your self in.
Murdoch is a shit bag. His behavior in this case proves it as much as the phone bugging in the UK.

feel free to point this out.

But here in Massachusetts, we are a commonwealth. The world has seen us act as a society.
Thatcher said, "there is no such thing as a society".

This week, the commonwealth of Massachusetts proved her wrong.

I am proud of my neighborhood.
I am proud of the hospitals.
I am proud of the Governor.
I am proud of Boston's Mayor.

Who feels it, knows it.



.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:29 am

IanEye: [Insert the Orson Welles clapping gif, add tears and a beaming smile]
“Joy is a current of energy in your body, like chlorophyll or sunlight,
that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:31 am

Yes, too, it really should be: Massachusetts wins. Thank you for the tacit correction.
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that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Fresno_Layshaft » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:32 am

FourthBase wrote:
Fresno_Layshaft wrote:
FourthBase wrote:And no, not like any other East Coast city. A little bit better.
And that little bit might make all the difference.
Because we're not done reacting.
Could go wrong.
Could go right.

Before you make your unjustifiably-certain pronouncements: WAIT. And see. And help.
Right now, though? YOU'RE NOT HELPING.



What are you talking about? You're not done reacting? What does that even mean? Are you gonna send Rondo on a commando mission to Chechnya? Get some revenge?


No, you fucking tool, it means we'll we may demand the truth.
It means we'll we may resist any attempt to foist long-term police-state shit on us.
"But you all obediently sat at home today! You clapped for federal police! The pigs!"
Yes, right? That's the uncomprehending crap you were going to post? Save it.
We did all that for ONE DAY, because there was apparently...

A MEGA-TRAINED MEGA-ARMED MANIAC ON THE LOOSE WHO WAS FRIGHTENINGLY GOOD AT EVADING AND FENDING OFF THE LARGEST MANHUNT OF ALL FUCKING TIME.

Try, try, please fucking try to make some reasonable distinctions.
You can't possibly be this debilitated by cynicism.

All of you temporarily disabled by cynical idiocy:
Put away your Worst Possible Interpretation machine.
Garbage in, garbage out. Enough of the garbage. ENOUGH.

Edited a bunch, last edit to be more realistic, provisional.
Because we don't know for sure yet. Could go wrong. Could go right.
Less likely to go wrong if you quit the cynical shit and help sleuth.



You're unhinged and you've ruined this thread all day with your non-stop histrionics and emotional grand-standing. I came here hoping to get the latest updates and insights, but I have go through all your shit about jerking off and duck races (whatever the hell that is)...
Nothing will Change.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:34 am

Fuck off. Get busy sleuthing, then. Please.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby justdrew » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:38 am

it does seem POSSIBLE they were picked to be scapegoats from a list of local possibilities, and went berserk moments after seeing themselves shown as the prime suspects. but if they were innocent, why wouldn't they just turn themselves in? why kill a cop to avoid capture? No, they must have done it. Why? well, who knows, maybe they were mind controlled, maybe, but in that case we don't know by WHO or for what ends. 29 is in the age range for people to go really fuckin dangerous crazy, and he dragged his younger brother into his madness. Not exactly a wild scenario. Very possible.

The idea that Our Government wants to usher in a "NWO police state" I'm sorry, I don't buy that for a second. Status Quo is always preferred. This theory of gradually conditioning people to militarized policing, also nonsense. All of this for that narrow nebulous goal? and why bother? There's no way "our government" benefits from what would essentially be Destabilizing the nation. Also, reject the idea that there's a THEM separate from US; We staff Our government.

Now is there room for some secret society to infiltrate and use elements of the government? Sure, could happen, likely has AT TIMES, but there's a lot of churn and I don't think any secret group would be able to maintain it's agents in control positions all that reliably long term.

No the most likely theory would be destabilization aimed toward political/military takeover of regions of a shattered US. Conducted by a subculture native to the US, with possible assistance from outside ideologically allied secret group(s).

Now if such a thing were going on, and if Our Government knew about it, there's a real possibility they'd cover it up, firstly, to thwart enemy psychological impact goals; and secondly to prevent potential supporters from finding out such a secret group is operating. Also, there ma be a shortage of evidence, a secret group to stay that way can't be all that easily identified. When dealing with such shit in the real world with major consequences and publicly, it's not possible to just assume. You can't expose them without perfect proof, and what these days would that even be?

such a secret group may have been in operation for some time, possibly three generations or more, and may well have global assets and significant resources.

It seems the Profile of such an org would be based on a "right wing" template, Authoritarian Theocratic Personalities can be seen to have a tendency for just such actions on all scales and seek Sovereignty over territory and culture to implement their vision.
Last edited by justdrew on Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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