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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby backtoiam » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:39 am

mmmm...I don't know. When I see patterns this big I always start to wonder. For myself, if these rape patterns in the "camps" keep growing I am more than willing to consider that the article I posted might be bullshit.

If I were a migrant, desperate, and needed a place to live, food, sleep, safety, shelter, I wouldn't be raping people.I would be tired, scared, knowing I was being watched, and i wouldn't be swinging my ding dong in the wrong direction and drawing attention to myself by creating sexual violence. I would be humble jack glad to have a place to survive.

I'm not saying that a refugee camp couldn't have rape and violence but I would not expect new arrivals, desperate for a pillow, to have rape and violence on their mind.

And, we don't really have any idea how many of these "migrants" really exist.

And, we know if they do exist they were NOT brought their for their safety. Why? Because the people that bombed their houses, killed their children, decided to be SO KIND as to give them a place to live.

Really? I might smell a rat...you don't burn peoples children and then give their parents a place to live because you feel sorry for them unless you are bringing their parents into the equation to cause trouble.

I don't know...might be culture jamming.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby General Patton » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:00 am

backtoiam » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:39 am wrote:mmmm...I don't know. When I see patterns this big I always start to wonder. For myself, if these rape patterns in the "camps" keep growing I am more than willing to consider that the article I posted might be bullshit.

If I were a migrant, desperate, and needed a place to live, food, sleep, safety, shelter, I wouldn't be raping people.I would be tired, scared, knowing I was being watched, and i wouldn't be swinging my ding dong in the wrong direction and drawing attention to myself by creating sexual violence. I would be humble jack glad to have a place to survive.

I'm not saying that a refugee camp couldn't have rape and violence but I would not expect new arrivals, desperate for a pillow, to have rape and violence on their mind.

And, we don't really have any idea how many of these "migrants" really exist.

And, we know if they do exist they were NOT brought their for their safety. Why? Because the people that bombed their houses, killed their children, decided to be SO KIND as to give them a place to live.

Really? I might smell a rat...you don't burn peoples children and then give their parents a place to live because you feel sorry for them unless you are bringing their parents into the equation to cause trouble.

I don't know...might be culture jamming.


According to a recent UN report only about half are Syrian. And they're mostly young men, about 80%. What happens is that a family bankrolls a young man who travels to the country, then later the relatives come over.

I don't think Europe is doing this out of the kindness of their hearts either. They need to either kick up their birthrate or push in a lot of migrants to do work in their countries. The latter is winning out.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:46 am

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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:52 am

Clearly I have a weird sense of humor, because this had me laughing. I'm not even sure why.

DISPATCH
The Men Who Pretend to Be Syrian Refugees
People washing ashore on the Greek island of Lesbos are trying to pass themselves off as Syrian to win a new life in Europe — and overworked officials are struggling to determine who’s telling the truth.

BY SUSANNAH GEORGE
OCTOBER 7, 2015


One by one, the head of the vetting team led by Frontex, a European Union agency that works between member states to secure EU borders, quizzes men and families claiming to be from Syria who arrive on the Greek island of Lesbos.

“I’m a Syrian,” the man repeated to the official cautiously, his shoes and clothing still wet from the journey by sea earlier that day. “From Deir Ezzor.”

The man, who had arrived from Turkey that morning, hesitated and pointed to a yellow bill, a fake note that vaguely resembled Lebanese currency but was clearly not from Syria.

“Are you originally from Iraq, maybe?” the officer asked. After some whispered words with his wife and brother, the man explained that, yes, his family is Iraqi, but they had lived in Syria for many years.

.At a registration center that processes more than 1,000 people a day, there is at most a single Arabic speaker present. In the afternoon, after Frontex agents and NGO workers head home at 2 p.m., there are none. The vast majority of the processing is handled by local policemen and civil servants who have been pulled away from their desk jobs at local municipalities and who are ill-equipped to judge whether a new arrival is actually from where they say they are.

Over the summer, between 3,000 and 5,000 people were arriving to Lesbos every day, about half of whom were registered at Kara Tepe. For many of those people — and those still coming to the island now — their declared country of origin could mean the difference between being allowed to stay in Europe and being sent back home. Syrians fleeing war are largely expected to be granted asylum in countries like Germany and Sweden, but individuals from a relatively safe country, such as Morocco or Turkey, who are just seeking better work and education opportunities in Europe, would generally not qualify for the same benefits and would possibly be sent back to their country of origin. Officials familiar with the vetting process at the Kara Tepe registration center estimate about half of all people who arrive initially say that they are Syrian.

“All nationalities receive the same treatment here,” explained the agent to a crowd of men all claiming to be Syrian. The agent declined requests to speak directly to the media or give out his name, “If you’re Libyan, Moroccan, Iraqi, Syrian, everyone receives the same papers. I’m just trying to do my job.”

The man who initially claimed to be from Deir Ezzor but was in fact Iraqi was just one of many who was cycled through this haphazard process. After being questioned by the Frontex official, he was waved through to other agents who helped him fill out a palm-sized slip of paper with his name, the names of his father, mother, and grandfather, and his nationality. At the next kiosk, that slip of paper became a legal document stamped and signed by a Greek civil servant. After being fingerprinted, the man was handed a single sheet of paper — a transit document — which allowed him to travel through Greece to the rest of Europe.

The next man in line approached the official. “I’m just asking for a friend, not for me, but is it OK if you’re Libyan, will you still get the papers?”

In the back of the crowd, one family debated among themselves whether to try to pass for Syrian. When asked where exactly they were from in Syria, one woman paused and smiled: “From Syria, for sure.”

Greece’s system for processing refugees wasn’t fully functional even before the current influx of people, said Migration Policy Institute analyst Susan Fratzke — and has now “basically been overwhelmed.”

Fratzke says as far back as 2008, Greece was being criticized for its sloppy handling of asylum-seekers. Specifically, the country was failing even back then to keep track of who was entering the EU through Greece and process the claims in-country. Everyone who enters the EU through Greece is supposed to declare asylum there, and Greece is supposed to handle the paperwork and vetting process. But Athens knows these people don’t want to stay, so it is not even attempting to handle the claims and is instead just leaving the work for the countries where the new arrivals are heading, like Germany and Sweden.

“Because the rules aren’t being enforced,” Fratzke said, “it’s really had the effect of placing a higher share of responsibility on some of the more desirable destinations like Germany and Sweden.”

At the Kara Tepe registration center, only a fraction of new arrivals receive any sort of vetting at all. Greek officials lack the capacity to carry it out themselves, and Frontex employees are only present at the registration center for a fraction of the day.

At around 4 p.m., after most employees had left, a group of men arrived at the camp asking how to register; they were directed by fellow refugees and migrants to a messy pile of blank slips of paper stacked on an abandoned desk. The men, speaking Iraqi-accented Arabic and slang, said they were from the northern Syrian city of Aleppo and lacked documentation because all their belongings had been lost at sea.

The men wrote “Syria” under nationality and proceeded directly to the local police officer, where the information was notarized. Within an hour, they were fingerprinted and had received letters of transit listing them as Syrian nationals.

“We are so thankful to the Greek government to give us this chance at a peaceful life,” said one of the men, who asked to be called Ali.

Aid workers say about half the people at this registration center show up without any kind of documentation. Along the island’s beaches, residents have collected identity documents from the rocky shores — Pakistani and Iraqi passports and Turkish national IDs, all presumably abandoned because people from these countries have slimmer chances of being granted asylum and being allowed to stay in Europe.

“We just have to trust what they write down,” said Dimitris Sarras, a civil servant and architect“We just have to trust what they write down,” said Dimitris Sarras, a civil servant and architect who now works part time at the registration center to help fill out paperwork. “There was one man from an NGO who spoke Arabic, but he left last week, so there is no way to know, really.”

Greece’s registration process has not always worked this way. The Greek government quietly changed its registration policies earlier this summer, when a sharp increase in arrivals from Turkey to Lesbos left more than 20,000 refugees and migrants stuck on the island, overcrowding the capital of Mytilene, an idyllic tourist town whose typical population numbers roughly 38,000.

German officials have said that 30 percent of the people claiming to be Syrian asylum-seekers in Germany are not in fact from Syria, but officials in Greece with knowledge of the initial registration process on the Aegean island estimate the number is much higher.

“Honestly, it’s really not that hard. You just need to start by asking the guy about himself,” explained one official involved in EU vetting procedures who asked that his name be withheld as he was not authorized to speak to the media. “One guy, I could tell from his teeth he’s a smoker, so I asked, oh, you smoke cigarettes? Yeah? What is that Syrian brand again? Anyone who is actually from Syria will know, but Iraqis would never know.”

The official says the process is rarely confrontational. “They all respect that I’m just trying to do my job, and no one is being turned away.”

And therein lies a problem: There are no real repercussions if someone is found to be lying about his or her country of origin. If the official doing the vetting isn’t happy with someone’s answer, he or she can detain the refugee in question at the registration center, but this rarely happens at Kara Tepe.

For all those who will qualify for asylum, many others will not, Fratzke says, and Greece is not doing anyone any favors by waving people through. The EU return process, a bureaucratic mess that only manages to send home fewer than half of all those deemed ineligible for asylum, becomes less effective the longer people remain in the system.

“The longer you leave people in the system, the more difficult it is to sort through the cases,” she said, “and the more resources you’re taking for people who might eventually need to be returned.”

ACHILLEAS ZAVALLIS/AFP/Getty Images Link
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:07 am

By the way, for the record Egypt has taken in around a million Syrian refugees (real ones). They've already set up "little Aleppo" and "little Damascus" etc. neighborhoods in the satellite cities surrounding Cairo, where they're all busily earning an excellent reputation for hard work and their skills, not to mention their friendliness and good manners. They are given residence permits that allow them to work, their kids to attend Egyptian schools and give them access to all Egyptian public services for free. They seem to be all over the place, working in all possible fields, from professional to labor. A lot of them have set up their own businesses and hire both Syrians and Egyptians. Even the housewives are busy earning extra money from home.

Just the other day, as I was heading towards my parked car after shopping, a cute young guy, around 18-19 years old asked me with a shy smile if I'd be interested in some Syrian pastries. He was so sweet I said yes, then he ran and got a big plastic bag filled with neatly packed styrofoam trays with a variety of baked goods, sweet and savory. I bought quite a big pile of the trays, figuring even if they weren't any good, I was glad to help. But they all turned out to be delicious, beautifully made and delicately flavored. The Syrians are known for their legendary culinary talents. Their work ethic is also making a lot of Egyptians grumble that they'd hire a Syrian over an Egyptian any day. We're so lucky to have them, though from the bottom of my heart I wish them well, and hope they get their country back, even better and stronger than before.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby 82_28 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:18 am

But they are packing their pastries in styrofoam which means that something is being sourced from somewhere in order to make an "impact".

Prolly:

Gulf Polystyrene Factory (GPF) is a newly renowned polystyrene company set up in Dammam, Saudi Arabia to take a part in the rapid growth development programs of the Kingdom. GPF is equipped with state of the art technology of the millennium in foam cutting industry with a high production capacity to meet the demands of every client.

GPF also owns a huge fleet of specially designed vehicles to transport the polystyrene products to all regions of the Kingdom, and to the neighboring Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) countries.

It has well-established and time-tested logistics set-up to be able to provide consistent, fast and accurate response to client’s needs. The company is supported by well-organized and dynamic skilled teams, Sales and Marketing Engineers, Project Managers and Technical Staff.


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http://www.gulfpolystyrene.com/introduction.php
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:34 am

Syrian women aren't just incredible cooks. Fighting on the ground for their country are some kick-ass Syrian women, who are earning a reputation for bravery and excellent shooting skills:

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Maybe that's why I found that so hilarious, about the fake "Syrians" in the refugee camps.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:41 am

By the way, Syrians in Egypt don't consider themselves to be in a foreign country, but fellow Arabs getting a little help from their friends, just like Syrians have warmly welcomed so many desperate people over the centuries. This is one reason why the Syrian population is so diverse culturally, religiously and ethnically. Syria has never closed its borders or been stingy with help to anyone: most recently, in 2006, at the height of Israel's savage bombing of Lebanon, the Syrian border was opened and swarmed with Syrians offering to take in Lebanese families.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby 82_28 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:48 am

Yes. It's all fake. We all know it. Not only that, it's stupid. If contractors were able to land a few subways, a few pizza huts, a few burger kings etc wherever the fuck they were needed/wanted in the bases of freedom giving angels, that's where that styrofoam came from -- regional contractors.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby 82_28 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:01 am

AlicetheKurious » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:41 pm wrote:By the way, Syrians in Egypt don't consider themselves to be in a foreign country, but fellow Arabs getting a little help from their friends, just like Syrians have warmly welcomed so many desperate people over the centuries. This is one reason why the Syrian population is so diverse culturally, religiously and ethnically. Syria has never closed its borders or been stingy with help to anyone: most recently, in 2006, at the height of Israel's savage bombing of Lebanon, the Syrian border was opened and swarmed with Syrians offering to take in Lebanese families.


Much like any sane American doesn't give a shit if you're Mexican or Canadian etc. However the sentiment pervades that "those people" are "here". I will say that Mexicans and Canadians tip like shit -- but that doesn't count because it isn't relevant. But this whole imbroglio is being contracted I would go so far to say, for propaganda and profit.

Then we'll simply move on to the next act. Point being that someone of some stature needs to come to the fore and call this shit bullshit. Very sadly, it's Donald TRUMP.

I don't think Sanders will live long enough to effect no change. In all honesty I am very confused.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:01 am

82_28 what are you babbling on about? Styrofoam trays? They're sold in supermarkets, made in Egypt or imported from China and elsewhere.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby 82_28 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:20 am

I'm babbling on about that styrofoam is "illegal" at least on the west coast of the USA and making a tenuous connection. Point being, sourced. Point also being that your Syrian bakers might be being "funded" by Saudi Arabia and were set up with the rad containers to sell it in. They may not know it, the good bakers, but that shit has to be sourced and bought. There's a ton of gray area, but that is what sprang to mind and I went to look up "Styrofoam suppliers middle east". It actually isn't babbling, it's simply an association. Something to think about and that is it.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby 82_28 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:37 am

It's also called "pack and hold" or "cash and carry". I have worked in restaurants most of my life and ragtag Syrians would have to have preordained containers even in a major city in America. There are not vast warehouses of styrofoam containers just collecting dust waiting to be used. Thus, they are being supplied. I couldn't begin to tell you the hundreds of times in my life that we ran out of "to-go boxes". It was only my impression because I have seen various boxes come and go and about ordering enough of them and where to get them.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:18 pm

82_28 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:37 am wrote:It's also called "pack and hold" or "cash and carry". I have worked in restaurants most of my life and ragtag Syrians would have to have preordained containers even in a major city in America. There are not vast warehouses of styrofoam containers just collecting dust waiting to be used. Thus, they are being supplied. I couldn't begin to tell you the hundreds of times in my life that we ran out of "to-go boxes". It was only my impression because I have seen various boxes come and go and about ordering enough of them and where to get them.


That's crazy. Syrian women are famous for their culinary skills and their lovely homemade baked goods. These are housewives doing what they can to make some extra money. I don't know about the US, but styrofoam trays of various sizes are readily available and cheap, at many supermarkets in Egypt. They're used in all grocery stores, to package cheese and meat and even butter and all kinds of stuff. What a bizarre and silly tangent. Are you trying to disrupt this thread? Because if it's going to deteriorate into a time-waster about styrofoam trays, then you're welcome to it.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Searcher08 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:50 pm

AlicetheKurious » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:18 pm wrote:
82_28 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:37 am wrote:It's also called "pack and hold" or "cash and carry". I have worked in restaurants most of my life and ragtag Syrians would have to have preordained containers even in a major city in America. There are not vast warehouses of styrofoam containers just collecting dust waiting to be used. Thus, they are being supplied. I couldn't begin to tell you the hundreds of times in my life that we ran out of "to-go boxes". It was only my impression because I have seen various boxes come and go and about ordering enough of them and where to get them.


That's crazy. Syrian women are famous for their culinary skills and their lovely homemade baked goods. These are housewives doing what they can to make some extra money. I don't know about the US, but styrofoam trays of various sizes are readily available and cheap, at many supermarkets in Egypt. They're used in all grocery stores, to package cheese and meat and even butter and all kinds of stuff. What a bizarre and silly tangent. Are you trying to disrupt this thread? Because if it's going to deteriorate into a time-waster about styrofoam trays, then you're welcome to it.


Hi Alice! :hug1:
My take was 82 was talking about a Just-In-Time supply chain item, which would be really relevant - they are very susceptible to shortages. In the US, if a large number of people showed up selling food (with this packaging) like this, it would indicate there had been forward planning. Inventories are extremely tight (which is why it is often NOT possible to NOT get essentials in a big UK supermarket.
I dont think this applies in this situation; no offense to Egyptian manufacturing, but I could see no evidence of it in use outside of a Toyota plant. So unlike in the US, there WILL be a huge warehouse full of them, and the Syrian ladies wont run out of them. No indication of advance planning, just a different supply chain.
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