Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:37 pm

Luther Blissett wrote:Ryan Lanza sure did receive a lot of phone calls that day, but they seemed to have been coming from journalists and amateur sleuths.


It's obvious - to me - that he or someone in his office noticed his name mentioned as a suspect in the murders on the internet browsers they were reading instead of working.

MacCruiskeen wrote:Why didn't they phone him or his employer?


Er... maybe they thought he was dead.

    "Hi is Ryan Lanza there?"

    "This is he."

    "Hi, this is the FBI. Are you dead?"

    "No."

    "Okay, thanks."

    "Okay, g'bye."

    "Bye."

****END INVESTIGATION****

Then he takes the bus all the way from Times Square to Hoboken


Was he at work in Manhattan? Ernst & Young has offices in Secaucus, minutes from his apartment. So he made it home before police got there, because they found him at his apartment. Then came the press, the cordoning, the search, etc.

The report it might be interesting to find is the one where Ryan is announced as the suspect by CNN, and see if Hoboken is mentioned as his address.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:50 pm

barracuda wrote:
MacCruiskeen wrote:Why didn't they phone him or his employer?


Er... maybe they thought he was dead.

    "Hi is Ryan Lanza there?"

    "This is he."

    "Hi, this is the FBI. Are you dead?"

    "No."

    "Okay, thanks."

    "Okay, g'bye."

    "Bye."

****END INVESTIGATION****


Ho ho. So here's how you would have done it, right?

BARRACUDA AS POLICEMAN: "Here's his ID. Ryan Lanza dunnit. Case closed. Coffee, gentlemen?"

****END INVESTIGATION****


Be serious. The reasons for calling his number are too crassly obvious and too many to list. Or do I really have to list them?

barracuda wrote:
MacCruiskeen wrote:Then he takes the bus all the way from Times Square to Hoboken


Was he at work in Manhattan? Ernst & Young has offices in Secaucus, minutes from his apartment.


Does Secaucus have a Times Square? Daily Mail says that's where he worked.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby solace » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:58 pm

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/sh ... ry-school/

This list of CNN reporting shows a lot of initial misinformation by time reported, along with the odd corrective update.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:19 pm

Thanks very much, solace.

Here are some relevant bits of the timeline, concerning identification of the dead gunman. (Later updates/corrections subsequently inserted into the real-time narrative are marked by CNN in italics.):

[Updated at 1:51 p.m. ET] We have just learned that the suspected shooter is 20-years-old, a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation tells CNN’s Susan Candiotti.

[Updated at 1:47 p.m. ET] A few more details from the White House press briefing earlier. White House spokesman Jay Carney said while today is not the day to debate gun policy, an assault weapons ban "does remain a commitment" of President Obama.

[Updated at 1:45 p.m. ET] We are now learning that a male is being questioned by investigators, but he is not being called a suspect, CNN's Susan Candiotti reports.

[Updated at 1:42 p.m. ET] Connecticut State Police Lt. Paul Vance said the shooter is dead inside the school.



CNN wrote:Updated at 3:09 p.m. ET] The suspect's mother was shot and killed at the school, according to source close to the investigation. She was a teacher there.

And we now know that Ryan Lanza, the suspected gunman, was 24.

(6:44 p.m. ET update – (Three U.S. law enforcement officials say the suspected gunman was Adam Lanza, not his brother Ryan Lanza as officials had previously said. It is not clear what caused the confusion among investigators.


CNN wrote:[Updated at 3:22 p.m. ET] It appears that another member of the alleged shooter's family is dead. A senior law enforcement official familiar with the investigation says a brother of the alleged shooter was found dead in a home searched in Hoboken, New Jersey. We already knew the suspect's mother was found dead in the elementary school.

(6:43 p.m. ET update – CNN’s Susan Candiotti is talking to investigators and has now learned that the mother of the suspected shooter was found dead in the suspect’s home in Newtown. No brother of the suspect has been found dead, and no one has been found dead in the home in Hoboken, New Jersey, investigators say.)

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/sh ... ry-school/


This is striking:

[Updated at 1:51 p.m. ET] We have just learned that the suspected shooter is 20-years-old, a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation tells CNN’s Susan Candiotti.


Adam's exact age. Then came the "correction" that it was in fact "Ryan Lanza, 24":

CNN wrote:Updated at 3:09 p.m. ET] The suspect's mother was shot and killed at the school, according to source close to the investigation. She was a teacher there.

And we now know that Ryan Lanza, the suspected gunman, was 24.


"We now know".

Then, much later, the re-correction of that false correction. The dead killer is suddenly 20 again, not 24.

WTF? So how did they come up with the remarkably specific age of "20-years-old" in the first place? Exactly what ID or other documentation led them to believe that?
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:29 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:20 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:Does Secaucus have a Times Square? Daily Mail says that's where he worked.


Okay, thanks.

Friday morning began like any other work day for Ryan Lanza.

The 24-year-old Hoboken resident commuted into Ernst & Young's Times Square office. He has reportedly been a senior tax employee there for the past few years.

While at his desk, Lanza looked up at the TV and saw a report that he had allegedly killed 20 or more people at Sandy Hook elementary school.

Of course, this wasn't true.

His mother was also pronounced dead.

A coworker recounted what happened next to MailOnline:

"Lanza quickly told his boss: 'I need to go,'" The Daily Mail reports. "He then walked out of his Times Square office. Thirty minutes later, New York Police stormed the office."

Lanza likely walked to Port Authority, where he could catch a bus back to his Hoboken, New Jersey home on 13th and Grand. During that time, Lanza took to Facebook to defend himself.

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-ryan ... z2J26TtEex


First mention I'd heard of the storming. I guess maybe they knew he wasn't dead after all.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:34 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:Ho ho. So here's how you would have done it, right?

BARRACUDA AS POLICEMAN: "Here's his ID. Ryan Lanza dunnit. Case closed. Coffee, gentlemen?"

****END INVESTIGATION****


No, I'd have sent police to his home and office just as investigators did, to mitigate any possibility of flight.

Phone first? Not likely.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:42 pm

And really, WTF? (Yet again.) Look at the specific mention of Hoboken:

CNN wrote:
[Updated at 3:22 p.m. ET] It appears that another member of the alleged shooter's family is dead. A senior law enforcement official familiar with the investigation says a brother of the alleged shooter was found dead in a home searched in Hoboken, New Jersey. We already knew the suspect's mother was found dead in the elementary school.

^^Look how late it was, already.

They still can't make up their minds who's who, who's the killer, whether he's 20 or 24, who works where, or who's dead where. But they've already searched a home "in Hoboken", as well as the house in Newtown where the mother's body was found.

WTF? At the very least, this is a complete journalistic fiasco. But it has to be much more serious than that. They're getting all their info from "A senior law enforcement official familiar with the investigation". And it is too specific in its details (Hoboken, 20, 24, mother dead) to be completely random or just made-up. Yet it's all wrong.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:43 pm

Still holds true...

compared2what? wrote:If all the evidence for the serial lying and disinformation-spreading is going to turn out to originate as wrong information reported during the first 24 to 48 hours of coverage, with a high concentration originating in the first 24, don't bother. The known level of error here is par for the course for almost all breaking-news coverage of equivalently chaotic-to-handle mass-death events. Whether accidental, criminal or natural in cause. And no matter where the press is getting its info.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:44 pm

barracuda wrote:No, I'd have sent police to his home and office just as investigators did, to mitigate any possibility of flight.

Phone first? Not likely.


How many flying corpses have you seen? Pray tell.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:45 pm

Obviously they already thought he could be alive, or they wouldn't have stormed Ernst & Young.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby solace » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:45 pm

"According to the Associated Press, “a law enforcement official mistakenly transposed the brothers’ first names.” The result was that, for a few brief hours in the middle of the day, based on press speculation about the suspect’s identity, social media users brought out the digital equivalent of pitchforks and torches, vilifying the alleged shooter’s brother and haranguing Ryan Lanzas all across the intertubes."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill ... n-newtown/
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:47 pm

barracuda wrote:Obviously they already thought he could be alive, or they wouldn't have stormed Ernst & Young.


How can a dead lone gunman in Newtown still be alive in Manhattan?
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:48 pm

Try shining more light of common sense on this and casting a shade fewer shadows of incredulity and see what happens.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:50 pm

Try answering my questions. How can a dead lone gunman in Newtown still be alive in Manhattan? Why fear flying corpses?
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:51 pm

The media got the facts wrong. In any other case you would taken this as a given.
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