Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Iamwhomiam » Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:25 am

...nobody died until 05:13 in the morning, when the SWAT team entered. Prior to that no one had been killed. The 53 that were injured, and the 49 that were murdered all met their fates at the time of, and during, the police entry into the building,” Judge Napolitano said.


We know this is untrue, that no one died or was killed until SWAT entered. The 911 calls record callers expiring hours before, with the police removing many dead and injured in the intervening hours.

However, this is interesting:
Mateen himself came through the hole, still shooting. He hit Swat officer Michael Napolitano’s Kevlar helmet, directly in front of his forehead
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby SonicG » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:10 pm

A few things trickling out but most news is about tributes to the victims.
Sure, go rummage through the shooter's apartment, and, hey, who cares about his wife and supposed accomplice in the biggest terrah attack since 911, but no public records for you!

FBI seeking to prevent disclosure of information about Orlando shooting
In the wake of the horrific attack on the Pulse nightclub, the Justice Department initially released a redacted transcript of one of the shooter’s 911 calls. Although that decision was quickly reversed, the Justice Department is still seeking to prevent the disclosure of information related to the shooter’s contacts with local law enforcement during the attack and standoff with the police, including information that is supposed to be publicly available under Florida law.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... -shooting/

Can we put to rest this Napolitano idiocy?
The Orlando Police Department has said that no shots were fired in the club after 2:18 a.m. until the final gun battle about three hours later.

At least four witnesses have reported that they heard gunfire after that time. The SCSO report lists "Shots Fired ATT" at 2:26:35, and notes that there is a "subj[ect]" in the bathroom with a "semi automatic" at 2:26:53.

A note in Seminole County's report at 3:08 a.m. reports that units "inside the building going to [take] him down through the double doors." Later, it says at 3:40 a.m.: "SWAT ins the building."


There is this page of records.
But, what is in the 911 calls?
Information about 911 call requests/body camera video & audio:
On June 23, at the direction of Mayor Buddy Dyer, the City of Orlando filed a lawsuit seeking declaratory relief to get guidance from the court on what public records, specifically 911 calls, related to the Pulse tragedy are releasable. The City has received voluminous public records requests from the media. In response to these requests, the City is attempting to satisfy the requirements of state law, the direction from the FBI, the needs of the media and Mayor Dyer’s commitment to be responsive and transparent to the public.

Since the incident on June 12, 2016, Mayor Dyer has encouraged the FBI to release as much information to the public as possible. While the FBI has released transcripts of some of the 911 calls, the City still maintains hundreds of 911 communications that cannot be released until the City receives guidance from the court.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Burnt Hill » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:43 pm

Here is some of the 911 call info that was released SonicG, yea nothing from Mateen.

The city did not release audio recordings or full transcripts of the 911 calls or of shooter Omar Mateen's communications with a police negotiator, only the computer-assisted dispatch logs that lay out radio communication among first responders. Callers and victims are not named in the logs.


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pulse-orlando-nightclub-shooting/os-pulse-timeline-records-20160628-story.html

No bombshells or smoking guns here- just some interesting -and heart wrenching- info.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby SonicG » Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:48 am

Some spin-off stories...

Muslim Man Beaten Outside Florida Mosque Attended By Orlando Shooter Omar Mateen
There was disagreement on whether the attack was racially motivated?

A Muslim man was beaten on Saturday outside a Florida mosque attended by the gunman who killed 49 people at an Orlando nightclub, though authorities and a Muslim civil rights group differed as to whether the attack was racially motivated.

The St. Lucie County Sheriff’s Office said the assault outside the Fort Pierce Islamic Center was reported around 4:11 a.m. local time and that deputies found the victim, who had been punched in the head and face, bleeding from the mouth.

The suspect, 25-year-old Taylor Anthony Mazzanti, was arrested shortly thereafter and booked on a charge of felony battery, the office said.
“Interviews by the deputies and supervisors on scene and a written witness statement completed by the victim do not indicate any racially-motivated comments were made by the suspect prior to, during or after the incident,” Sheriff Ken Mascara said in a statement.

Mascara said the investigation was ongoing.

The Florida branch of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) gave a different account of the incident.

The organization said a senior official with the Muslim non-profit, ICNA Relief, was with the victim and that the attacker approached spouting racial slurs and other offensive language.

CAIR said the attacker, who is white, allegedly said, “You Muslims need to get back to your country,” before assaulting the victim, who was not identified by CAIR or authorities. CAIR said the victim was Muslim and attended the Islamic Center.

The Islamic Center’s imam had requested extra security following the mass shooting last month by Omar Mateen at the gay nightclub Pulse in Orlando, about 120 miles to the north, according to CAIR and mosque spokesman Wilfredo Ruiz.

Ruiz said Mateen had infrequently attended the mosque.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mus ... d?section=

4:11 AM? Sunrise isn't until 6:30 it seems...Oh and that last line, I had thought the story was he went all the time with his father...


California Gun Laws Bring Sweeping Restrictions In Wake Of Orlando Shooting
Gun rights advocates called bills a “Gunpocalypse.”

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (Reuters) - California Governor Jerry Brown on Friday signed a sweeping package of gun control bills, banning high-capacity ammunition magazines and expanding the definition of prohibited assault weapons in the wake of mass shootings in San Bernardino and Orlando.

Democrats in the legislature rushed the measures through in hopes of passing them before their summer break, in part to try to forestall a competing gun control proposal headed for the November ballot.

California already has some of the toughest gun control laws in the nation, but after the shooting spree in the Southern California city of San Bernardino last December, lawmakers began work on measures they said would close unintended loopholes.

“My goal in signing these bills is to enhance public safety by tightening our existing laws in a responsible and focused manner, while protecting the rights of law-abiding gun owners,” Brown said in a signing measure.

It was a rare success for advocates of greater gun control.

U.S. lawmakers have fallen short in attempts to tighten gun laws after the killing of 49 people at a gay nightclub in Orlando last month.

Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives introduced a measure on Friday that would give authorities three days to prove that someone on a terrorism watch list should not be allowed to obtain a firearm. But Democrats rejected it as “toothless.”

The bills signed by Brown ban so-called bullet buttons, which allow quick changes in the magazine of a military-style weapon, and require background checks for purchasers of ammunition.

Ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 bullets at a time will also be banned, and background checks will be needed for people borrowing guns from non-family members.

Brown also vetoed several bills, including one that would have allowed co-workers, educators and mental health professionals to request restraining orders forbidding people deemed dangerous from owning guns.

Gun rights advocates called bills a “Gunpocalypse.”

“The California Legislature showed their true faces today,” said Craig DeLuz, spokesman for the Firearms Policy Coalition. “They abused the legislative process to enact their depraved anti-civil rights agenda.”

Their efforts spilled into intra-party politics as well, after Lieutenant Governor Gavin Newsom, who is expected to run for governor in 2018, gathered enough signatures to place his own gun control referendum on the November ballot.

The move angered the state Senate’s top Democrat, Kevin de Leon, who had been working to pass many of the same measures through the legislature.

Worried in part that Newsom’s initiative would boost turnout in November among Republicans who oppose gun control, legislative Democrats rushed to pass their bills in time for Newsom to withdraw his measure.

But the lieutenant governor refused.

“Today’s steps in the right direction will grow into a giant leap forward for public safety if voters pass the Safety for All initiative to keep guns and ammo out of the wrong hands,” he said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cal ... 29c1aa1f9c
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:25 pm

The cover-up is now blatant, and the FBI's intention (to terrorize the populace) is now explicit:

Image

https://i2.wp.com/www.activistpost.com/ ... 29-001.jpg

It's there in black-and-white: last paragraph, second sentence: Anyone who tries to find out anything about this case will be identified, pursued and silenced by the FBI.

ON EDIT: Reported only yesterday:

Leaked Documents Reveal How Easily FBI Can Spy on Journalists

July 2, 2016

By Dierdre Fulton

“The other major question here is: why are these rules secret in the first place?”

Newly leaked documents published by The Intercept expose just how easy it is for the FBI to spy on journalists using so-called National Security Letters (NSLs).

The classified rules, which had previously been released only in heavily redacted form, “show that the FBI imposes few constraints on itself when it bypasses the requirement to go to court and obtain subpoenas or search warrants before accessing journalists’ information,” The Intercept‘s Cora Currier wrote on Thursday. [...]

http://www.activistpost.com/2016/07/lea ... lists.html
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:37 pm

Image
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:43 pm

Sunrise in Orlando was at 6:28 am on the 2nd. Where I live, a few miles west of the Hudson River, 10 miles south of Albany, sunrise occurred at 5:20 am.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:29 pm

Iamwhomiam wrote:Sunrise in Orlando was at 6:28 am on the 2nd. Where I live, a few miles west of the Hudson River, 10 miles south of Albany, sunrise occurred at 5:20 am.


What is the relevance of this?

---------

mentalgongfu, which "conclusion" did I "jump to"? None. I said this:

It's there in black-and-white: last paragraph, second sentence: Anyone who tries to find out anything about this case will be identified, pursued and silenced by the FBI.


...and supplied the evidence to support it, which you just ignored completely while posting your someone else's Comedy Gold.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:45 pm

I read your post, Mac, and your evidence. I must have missed that statement you quote, as I did not see it in black and white or any other color except perhaps the cloudiest of grays, which you are citing as an obvious smoking gun. If you can't see your own leap of logic there, my further comment on the matter will be of no use.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:48 pm

"Leap of logic"? Don't be shy. Go ahead. Spell it out for us thickoes in the back row.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:20 pm

Alright, at your insistence, I'll oblige, though I do resent being put in a position to be de-facto defending the FBI, when my actual qualm is with the fact that your interpretation of the letter and what it plainly states are not necessarily the same thing.

Since the link to the FBI letter you posted cuts off the far left and far right of said letter, I will have to interpret a few words that cannot actually be read in that document, which I will demonstrate using parentheses.

Mac said:
The cover-up is now blatant, and the FBI's intention (to terrorize the populace) is now explicit:


It's there in black-and-white: last paragraph, second sentence: Anyone who tries to find out anything about this case will be identified, pursued and silenced by the FBI.


Last paragraph, second sentence of FBI letter said:
We further ask that you immediately noti(fy th)e FBI of any request your agency receives pursuant to Florida's Sunshine Law or any equivalent law (or o)ther judicial, legislative or administrative process, for records or information pertaining to the FBI's (a)ctive, on-going investigation so that the FBI can seek to prevent disclosure through appropriate chan(nels as) necessary.


Forgetting the niggling detail that we do not actually have a full and clear image of the document and must assume that it is actually related to the Orlando investigation, it does not actually state what you claim it states.
I'll grant that your conclusion can be legitimately drawn, but it is hardly clear or black-and-white. However unlikely you think it may be, it is, in fact, technically possible the FBI could have a legitimate law enforcement interest in requesting notification and seeking to prevent disclosure of certain information in an active case, aside from silencing someone seeking to expose a cover-up, if there is one. .

I find your certainty about the meaning of this one letter, with zero context and not even a full, unobstructed image,, to be very jarring in contrast to your refusal to consider the validity of any other information in the media about this case.

On edit:

Here, I did your homework for you and tracked down the story in the Orlando Sentinel from which this letter arose before it was shared on activistpost.com. Here it is, without the accompanying hyperbole.

FBI asks agencies who responded to Pulse to deny records requests

by Christal Hayes

The FBI has asked law enforcement agencies who responded to Pulse nightclub to withhold records from the public, according to officials.

A June 20 letter from the FBI, attached to the City or Orlando's lawsuit over withholding 911 calls and other records from 25 media outlets including the Orlando Sentinel, was also sent to the Seminole County Sheriff's Office with instructions pertaining to how they should respond to records requests.

The letter requests that agencies deny inquiries and directs departments to "immediately notify the FBI of any requests your agency received" so "the FBI can seek to prevent disclosure through appropriate channels, as necessary."

The Seminole County Sheriff's Office sent the Sentinel the letter Tuesday night in response to a request for documents, video and audio recordings from the early morning hours of June 12.

A spokeswoman for the Sheriff's Office said the FBI sent them the letter Monday night and "instructed us to forward it to anyone requesting records."

The lawsuit, which was filed in Orange County Circuit Court, moved to federal court after the City of Orlando named the Department of Justice as a defendant in the case. An attorney for the city said the change was made because "the dispute is really between the FBI and the media."

Barbara Petersen, President of the First Amendment Foundation, said the "FBI doesn't have the authority to hijack Florida's constitution, which guarantees us a right of access to all non-exempt public records."
Letter from FBI

The FBI is asking other law enforcement agencies who responded to Pulse to withhold records. They are also asking agencies to "immediately notify the FBI of any requests your agency received" so "the FBI can seek to prevent disclosure through appropriate channels, as necessary."

She said these records are public record subject to the state's law.

In the letter, the FBI says they are concerned releasing records would "adversely affect our ability to effectively investigate the shooting and bring the matter to resolution." They also say the records could endanger witnesses and law enforcement officers involved in the case.

Paul Wysopal, special agent in charge of the FBI's Tampa field office, signed the letter. He refused comment Wednesday.

Lawyers for the media outlets argue the records should be released because there is "a strong public interest in fully evaluating how first responders and police reacted during the most critical phases of this incredible tragedy," the lawsuit states.

The city, in its filing, said it has not released all records "out of respect for the Pulse shooting victims and the families" and at the "direction of the FBI."

On Wednesday, the FBI denied the Sentinel's request for records related to the shooting.

Staff writers Elyssa Cherney and David Harris contributed to this report.

chayes@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5493


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pulse-orlando-nightclub-shooting/os-fbi-letter-law-enforcement-20160629-story.html
Last edited by mentalgongfu2 on Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:23 pm

I'll grant that your conclusion can be legitimately drawn, but it is hardly clear or black-and-white.


What other conclusion could possibly be drawn? Seriously. It is perfectly clear and literally black-and-white.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:34 pm

However unlikely you think it may be, it is, in fact, technically possible the FBI could have a legitimate law enforcement interest in requesting notification and seeking to prevent disclosure of certain information in an active case, aside from silencing someone seeking to expose a cover-up, if there is one.


I've stated my piece and will henceforth cease to quibble on this particular matter.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Karmamatterz » Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:09 pm

Stalling to release anything relevant by the alphabet agencies is a time honored tactic they have perfected. Let things quiet down. Enjoy your summer, watch a baseball game, have a bbq and for chrissake don't think about malfeasance on the part of the government.

These national insecurity letters are despicable.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:11 pm

mentalgongfu2 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:20 pm wrote:However unlikely you think it may be, it is, in fact, technically possible the FBI could have a legitimate law enforcement interest in requesting notification and seeking to prevent disclosure of certain information in an active case, aside from silencing someone seeking to expose a cover-up, if there is one. .


Don't you think that the document is written specifically in that sort of bureaucratic legalese such that it could be interpreted either way? So that people who aren't as (rightly) cynical about the gubmint as Mac and Me (lol) can predictably step forward to say "wait a minute! this could be interpreted as far less sinister than you paranoids are imagining it to be!" Of course it can, that's how you're supposed to read it, with a trusting eye, when in fact the other interpretation is just as likely, if not more so, to be the intended one, given how we know government operates.
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