Giffords shooting

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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby American Dream » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:03 am

http://my.firedoglake.com/valtin/2011/0 ... l-illness/

Jared Loughner’s Possible Mental Illness
By: Jeff Kaye Saturday January 8, 2011 4:07 pm



As more details are revealed about the background of purported 22-year-old shooter Jared Loughner, who is in custody currently for the shooting in Tucson today of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, Federal Judge John Rell and a number of others, at least five of whom have died, a number of people are speculating about his possible mental illness. One diagnosis that keeps arising is schizophrenia. It’s worth looking into what that might mean.

Over the course of my psychology career, I have worked with schizophrenic individuals, and most are quite afraid of the world, and are far more likely to be victims than victimizers. However, there are a small minority whose delusions have led them to commit crimes.

I am a licensed psychologist and from afar, and am not in the position to diagnose Mr. Loughner. However, one can make some initial impressionistic comments based upon the video content he posted on YouTube. The autistic, in the sense of highly encapsulated and personal, nature of his thought processes, his emphasis on coercion from without (see his discussion about being taught letters of the alphabet), the strange nature of his logic and language, the paranoid attitude toward the world in general, are consistent with known cases of schizophrenia, paranoid type.

I cannot know if he is the shooter, but his videos do display a garbled mixture of political concerns, and there is a great deal about conscience (“conscience dreams”), about not doing wrong, about the definition of “terrorist”, about “grammar” and “currency”, about “brainwashing” and “mind control”. At times, appears as if he’s grappling with something struggling inside himself.

There are also indications of a sense of multiple internal selves, or a dissociated kind of experience (“conscience dreaming”) that may also mean he had dissociated personality as well. In fact, this combination of dissociated identity and schizophrenia is much more highly associated with violence than schizophrenia alone. Then again, his comments may only appear to indicate such dissociative processes, and be better accounted for by a thought disorder.

If one researches the words “conscience dreaming” online, you will find a YouTube video with that title, not by Mr. Loughner, and no connection with the latter is inferred, except that he may have watched the video. The video concerns three characters, The Agent, The Assassin, and The Dream Maker. There is also one imprisoned anonymous character. I find it quite coincidental to say the least that a phrase the supposed shooter used a number of times links to such a video which has such characters in it.

I would caution against implying any politics to someone who appears so disturbed, as his interpretation of political symbols and phrases are interpreted in a highly idiosyncratic and irrational way. However, if he were susceptible to violence, then the targets available by the given society, i.e., the rhetoric out there in the society, would have pointed him towards liberals, leftists, Muslims, or other minorities, and that kind of rhetoric has mainly been from the right-wing, as has been copiously commented upon.

As for whether such a person could be manipulated, it’s possible, but if he is as insane as he appears, he would have been a very unstable person upon which to base any such conspiracy. I tend to think, despite his talk about mind control and brainwashing, that he was not the subject of any such conspiracy. More likely, these concerns are more about such an individuals anxieties and paranoia about being controlled from without, about things outside himself threatening to invade his personal world. Concern with brainwashing is a common thread in narratives from schizophrenic individuals.

However, this doesn’t mean that mind control conspiracies by the government don’t exist. I’ve documented government documents, including of contemporary vintage, that prove such activity by the government still occurs. If one reads the history of this kind of research, attempts to really use mind control are not applied to schizophrenic individuals, though one does look for highly suggestible individuals, and then apply drugs and hypnosis and other programming techniques. The success or failure of such enterprises is highly classified.

My condolences to all who were affected by this terrible tragedy in Tucson today.

Update:

Here’s an example taken from one of Mr. Loughner’s videos, showing the strangeness of his thinking and language, which is circular, syntactically intact, but with extremely opaque meaning, which relies on repetitiveness. The language implies something very profound, which only the thinker understands:

Firstly, the current government officials are in power for their currency, but I’m informing you for your new currency! If you’re treasurer for a new money system, then you’re responsible for the distribution of a new currency! We now know — the treasurer for a new money system, is the distributor of the new currency. As a result, the people approve a new money system which is promising new information that’s accurate, and we truly believe in a new currency. And above else, you have your new currency, listener?

Second, my hope is for you to be — literate! If you’re literate in English grammar, then you comprehend English grammar. The majority of people, who reside in District 8, are illiterate — hilarious! I don’t control your English grammar structure, but you control your English grammar structure.


This is not the ramblings of a right-wing crackpot, which some have claimed Loughner to be, but gibberish. This doesn’t take away from the possibility Loughner reacted to right-wing propaganda, but quite likely out of madness, not political motivation, such as we understand such motivation.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby sergeant stiletto » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:06 am

Here is a pic of alleged 2nd suspect:

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/09/pe ... ng/?hpt=C1

Authorities are asking for the public's help to identify a person who is possibly associated with the suspect in Saturday's mass shooting in Arizona.

A gunman went to a town hall meeting at the Safeway supermarket in Tucson. Six people were killed and 12 others were wounded, including U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

Early Sunday morning, investigators released a surveillance camera photo of a man who was seen at the location where the shooting occurred.

Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik told reporters Saturday that authorities were searching for a second individual who was a "person of interest" in the investigation.

He is described as a white male, approximately 40 to 50 years old. He has dark hair and was last seen wearing blue jeans and a dark blue jacket.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby 82_28 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:33 am

matrixdutch wrote:
82_28 wrote:Her husband is to be the commander on the final shuttle flight -- a friend over IM tells me.

Goro Adachi won't have any time to watch any football today it seems. :wink


LOL


Well, for the hell of it, I was just watching NBC news coverage of "Tragedy in Tucson" and they were speaking to people who were there when it happened, helped subdue the shooter and administered CPR and such and one of the guys said a Dr. David Bowman was a doctor who was there at the scene. Anybody who may be down with "synchs" in shit like this, there you have that aspect as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bowm ... Odyssey%29
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Tucy » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:28 am

What a sad day! I hope all the victims find some comfort.

Looks like maybe that crazy nutbag shooter wrote some weird stuff about the space shuttle and other stuff over at Above Top Secret. I don't know what you all think of that site, but most of the posters who reply are like "WTF are you talking about?".

I feel weird linking to them...well here's a couple of thread where they uncover the possibility.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread648543/pg5
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread648608/pg3
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby norton ash » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:13 am

So the young girl who was murdered was born on Sept 11, 2001.

Child of a low, dishonest decade.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:43 am

norton ash wrote:So the young girl who was murdered was born on Sept 11, 2001.

Child of a low, dishonest decade.


You're fucking kidding.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby 82_28 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:50 am

norton ash wrote:So the young girl who was murdered was born on Sept 11, 2001.

Child of a low, dishonest decade.


Holy fucking shit. . .
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby norton ash » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:51 am

Not kidding. MSNBC interviewed her mom on the phone this morning (cool, composed Christian) and now they're remarking on the birthday practically every time they mention the poor kid. The girl appeared in a 9-11 photo book as a 'symbol of hope'... it's all over teh google.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Tucy » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:54 am

Joe Hillshoist wrote:
norton ash wrote:So the young girl who was murdered was born on Sept 11, 2001.

Child of a low, dishonest decade.


You're fucking kidding.


She was featured in a book about hope and 9-11.

Someone ran some quick unscientific numbers and came up with 222 kids were born in AZ on 9-11.

I think it's a horrid coincindence.

They said she was interested in learning about politics...I wonder if her birthday had something to do with her interest.

It's so sad on many levels.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby 82_28 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:54 am

Tucy wrote:What a sad day! I hope all the victims find some comfort.

Looks like maybe that crazy nutbag shooter wrote some weird stuff about the space shuttle and other stuff over at Above Top Secret. I don't know what you all think of that site, but most of the posters who reply are like "WTF are you talking about?".

I feel weird linking to them...well here's a couple of thread where they uncover the possibility.


What? Holy crap. Thanks for the links. Going to check them now.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby 82_28 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:17 pm

"Christina Taylor Green, nine-year-old victim in today's Tucson shootings, once was an infant designated to be a "Face of Hope" by virtue of her birth on September 11, 2001. She was one of the children born on 9/11, reports Tucson blogger David Abie Morales. And she is thereby featured in the book by Christine Pisera Naman, entitled Faces of Hope, Babies Born on 9/11, dedicated to all the mothers who gave birth and to their babies born on the day the World Trade Towers in New York City were taken down by an act of terrorism."

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... nmans-hand

Again, neither here nor there:

Taylor–Green vortex

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor%E2% ... een_vortex

Image
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby norton ash » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:39 pm

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports ... 61519.html

Granddaughter of Phillies manager Dallas Green. Dallas... Green... oh, the humanity.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Tucy » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:52 pm

You're welcome.

I wish I knew how to do a screen shot.

here is a link directly to a thread about the space shuttle that is started by someone that seems to be the Tucson shooter.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread593100/pg1

It feels weird to link to his (maybe) writing. I can't even watch those videos of his.

I got to see her speak on election night--the night Obama won, in downtown Tucson, and she was like everyone says she is, very warm and sweet in a real way. Nothing seemed phony about her. Hope she pulls through.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby hava1 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:58 pm

Apparently the shooter was more into her husband's space shuttle matters than politics and health care... nothing about NAsa will surprise me.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Peachtree Pam » Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:01 pm

http://firedoglake.com/2011/01/08/giffo ... -giffords/

This is text of ad published by Gifford's opponent in the recent election:

Per Puppethead in the comments, Giffords’ 2010 Congressional opponent Jesse Kelly held a June 12 gun event that was billed as follows on the Pima County Republican website:

Get on Target for Victory in November
Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office
Shoot a fully automatic M15 with Jesse Kelly


Kelly’s website has apparently scrubbed the event , but here is the account from the Arizona Daily Star:

Jesse Kelly, meanwhile, doesn’t seem to be bothered in the least by the Sarah Palin controversy earlier this year, when she released a list of targeted races in crosshairs, urging followers to “reload” and “aim” for Democrats. Critics said she was inciting violence.

He seems to be embracing his fellow tea partier’s idea. Kelly’s campaign event website has a stern-looking photo of the former Marine in military garb holding his weapon. It includes the headline: “Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly.”

The event costs $50.
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