So what do yall think the new currency is going to be?

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Re: So what do yall think the new currency is going to be?

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Sat Nov 09, 2024 11:18 pm

Agent Orange Cooper » Thu Mar 14, 2024 5:12 pm wrote:I think Bitcoin will become the next default world reserve currency and store of value! We will find out what happens when an infinite supply of centralized fiat meets an absolutely scarce supply of decentralized uncensorable digital money. Exciting times.


We now have a pro-Bitcoin President with a transition team headed by Howard Lutnick (the CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald, who lost his brother and 100s of employees at the top of the WTC on 9/11, and holds the $billions in US t-bills owned by Tether, the stablecoin issuer and crypto-bank)—and BTC is trading at all time highs (currently around $77200).
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Re: So what do yall think the new currency is going to be?

Postby Elvis » Sat Nov 16, 2024 2:21 am

Elihu wrote:usfedgov entity gets for itself tax money, spends more, conjures the difference (the debt).

There's a problem with your sequence: the government spends first, and then it taxes back some portion of what it spent, ex post.

Let's back up and ask where the dollars used to pay federal taxes come from: they come from previous federal spending. Bank lending can't fund taxes.

There's no difference between "spending tax money" and "spending more"; it's all issued by the government.

People have no money until either the government or banks issue it.

The problem with high interest payments on govt bonds is that it goes to rich people who already have money—in proportion to how much they have. (Paying it is not the problem.) It's insanely regressive, true "drunken sailor" spending. The solution? Leave the interest rate at or near zero. The only reason they raise rates is to "slow the economy" by throwing people out of work.


P.S. Another solution: stop selling bonds. The government doesn't have to sell bonds when it deficit spends, especially after 2008 when the Fed started paying interest on reserves—obviating the need to drain bank reserves with bond sales. However, the private sector loves safe govt securities, which are the foundation of the financial system. Some countries have their central bank sell bonds—purely for monetary policy (maintaining target interest rates), not for raising revenue.
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Re: So what do yall think the new currency is going to be?

Postby Elihu » Tue Dec 24, 2024 3:29 pm

https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-fina ... -you-ready


distilled from the article: regarding debt jubilees. if you read the whole, the rest was air imo with a really good punchline zinger right there in the middle somewhere, see if you catch it:
All it takes is a President’s pen stroke to wipe out hundreds of billions in debt.
But it’s not just consumer debt that’s unsustainable. The biggest problem is the US government’s federal debt—a much larger issue looming on the horizon.
The US federal government has the largest debt in the history of the world—and it’s growing at a rapid, unstoppable pace.
In short, the US government is fast approaching its financial endgame.
Here’s why…
And that assumes the debt stops growing, which it won’t.
The growth rate is not even going to slow down. It’s going to increase exponentially.
In short, efforts to reduce expenditures will be meaningless unless it becomes politically acceptable to make chainsaw-like cuts to entitlements, national defense, and welfare while reducing the national debt to lower the interest cost.
In other words, the US would need a leader who—at a minimum—returns the federal government to a limited Constitutional Republic, closes the 128 military bases abroad, ends entitlements, kills the welfare state, and repays a large portion of the national debt.
However, that’s a completely unrealistic fantasy. It would be foolish to bet on that happening.
In short, the US government is trapped. It’s game over.
They have no choice but to “reset” the system—
Given a choice, I don’t think the US government would choose immediate self-destruction.
Those storing wealth in government currencies, bonds, and other paper assets will be the biggest losers.
Debtors and owners of scarce, unencumbered, hard assets will be the big winners.
It’s certainly not a just outcome.
But notions of what is just or not didn’t stop Biden’s student loan jubilee—and they won’t stop the coming jubilees.
Although it will be an unfortunate outcome for many people, there is simply nothing anyone can do now.
The debt levels have already reached a critical point, and the government may soon see jubilees as a politically expedient option.
That’s why it’s crucial to recognize the reality of this Big Picture and position yourself accordingly.
I believe this “reset” could happen soon—and it won’t be pretty for many.
Most people have no idea how bad things could get—or how to prepare.


friend Elvis i know this is going to pique you. i know you could easily spot my cheesy articles even before i do!

XMas24! I love you guys and gals!
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Re: So what do yall think the new currency is going to be?

Postby Elihu » Tue Dec 24, 2024 3:43 pm

22 minutes ago
Why would "they" stop the implosion of America? That's the plan. Sure some politicians and executives might fear for their future but the " big club that we ain't in", H/T G Carlin, could care less. They already bought their bugout places and have them stocked for years of unrest.

Hey I almost forgot, Merry Christmas y'all!!

21 minutes ago
so the US goes from $36.5 trillion in debt to $38 trillion in debt it's just an acceleration of the end game
All roads lead to debasement and collapse (especially hyperinflation). Those and all loans will be "forgiven", one way or another.

30 minutes ago
Last time this was brought up, some time around Sept 10, 2001 Rumsfeld said $2.2 Trillion (give or take) was missing for the Pentagon budget. Not feeling very optimistic with this one as well.

44 minutes ago
"Debt jubilee" means bank failures, pension plan failures, annuity failures, insurance company failures, credit card failures, and a general breakdown of markets and trade. In a "debt jubilee," cash will be king. However, who takes cash anymore and who hold much cash anymore? Besides, "cash" is valuable only because we believe that it holds value. The reality is that cash is just fancy paper with numbers written on it. Once the "money illusion" disappears, "cash" is just worthless wallpaper.

32 minutes ago
"money" is an interesting concept to study
one of the interesting aspects is the transition from 'inflation' to 'hyperinflation'
the transition occurs literally overnight when the people realize that the "money" is just fancy paper with numbers on it
you have to protect yourself BEFORE the transition occurs

45 minutes ago
Debt cannot magically disappear. The piper must always be paid.

22 minutes ago
The thing that worked with ancient debt jubilees is that lenders knew when they would happen and adjust credit extensions in advance to minimize exposure at the zero hour. This acted as a way to moderate excessive credit expansion and stabilize activity. If a jubilee is a surprise, that’s a different, violent story.

23 minutes ago
Bitcoin is the Debt Jubilee they are doing for themselves.

27 minutes ago
My savings are sometime else's debt. Please don't jubilee that.

aaaand i'll close with these two:

49 minutes ago
Why has not Japan defaulted or suffered hyperinflation ?

46 minutes ago
You ask the most salient question to date.

The answer is because extend and pretend can go on much longer than anyone imagines. And it will.

long may elvis and i hypothesize!!!!
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Re: So what do yall think the new currency is going to be?

Postby Elvis » Tue Dec 24, 2024 9:56 pm

Elihu wrote:friend Elvis i know this is going to pique you.

:D So much crazy in this. You've gotta stop reading Zerohedge, they'll fill your head with nonsense.

Elihu wrote:The biggest problem is the US government’s federal debt—a much larger issue looming on the horizon.

This is crazy. The US federal govt "debt" is not a burden on anybody. The madness must stop!

Elihu wrote:In short, the US government is fast approaching its financial endgame

You realize that people have been saying this about US govt spending for over 200 years, and it hasn't happened.

Elihu wrote:returns the federal government to a limited Constitutional Republic, closes the 128 military bases abroad, ends entitlements, kills the welfare state, and repays a large portion of the national debt.

Severe craziness. Closing military bases, great idea. But that has nothing to do with any imminent US sovereign "debt crisis."
End entitlements? That means slashing the private sector income—which means a deep recession or worse.

Repaying govt debt means transferring the dollars in the bond accounts to the associated reserve accounts. Debit the bond account, credit the reserve account. This happens continuously, while we sleep. Nobody has to find or cough up any money to redeem the bonds. The dollars are in the bond accounts at the Fed. Worrying about how to "repay" Treasury bonds is a fool's errand.

Elihu wrote:In short, the US government is trapped. It’s game over.

:roll: The crazy thing is people expending so much energy over this non-problem. There's a reason for that; can you guess?

Elihu wrote:The debt levels have already reached a critical point

Why are they "critical"? What does "critical" mean? There is no logical justification for this fear. (It's pure fearmongering.)

Elihu wrote:Most people have no idea how bad things could get—or how to prepare

Most people have no idea what will happen if federal spending is slashed.

These fools want to slash the private sector income with no means of replacing it. That will be the disaster. If Musk gets his way, the private sector income will tumble, payments will stop, total spending will drop further, production will drop, spurring yet more layoffs—in short, the US will fall into a deep recession or depression. For no other reason than a small gang of amateurs lie Musk who think that slashing federal spending will give people more money. Slashing federal spending will impoverish the economy. Idiots.

The real problem is private debt. Slashing federal spending will only increase private indebtedness—to new unsustainable levels. That's where the kettle is going to boil over.

Wm Vickrey on deficits.png
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Re: So what do yall think the new currency is going to be?

Postby Elvis » Tue Dec 24, 2024 11:11 pm

Elihu wrote:around Sept 10, 2001 Rumsfeld said $2.2 Trillion (give or take) was missing for the Pentagon budget

That money was not missing from "the budget," it was the portion of total spending over many years that an audit couldn't account for. Unsurprising for a huge military. But still bad. And it has nothing to do with any sovereign "debt crisis."


Elihu wrote: Besides, "cash" is valuable only because we believe that it holds value. The reality is that cash is just fancy paper with numbers written on it. Once the "money illusion" disappears, "cash" is just worthless wallpaper.

Paper cash, of course, has nothing to do with federal spending or "the debt." Dollars (mostly electronic entries) are in demand not least because the govt requires them in payment of taxes, etc.
Reminder that the dollar is above all a unit of measure. It's not supposed to "hold value" intrinsically except as a tradable tax credit.


Elihu wrote:"money" is an interesting concept to study

Understatement! I wish they would learn about money and save themselves all this trouble.


Elihu wrote:the transition from 'inflation' to 'hyperinflation'
the transition occurs literally overnight when the people realize that the "money" is just fancy paper with numbers on it

No, the transition occurs when a severe resource shock creates shortages, which causes stuff people want to become more valuable. Contributing factors include weak tax collection/compliance regimes—if a govt won't or can't excercise its taxing authority, insufficient consumer demand is removed from the economy and eventually inflation occurs. Plus you have opportunistic price setters with market power who further jack up prices, under cover of existing inflation.

As prices rise, for commerce to continue, more currency (paper or electronic) must be issued. Issuing more money is the response to high inflation, almost never the cause.

Hyperinflation is rare, requiring a given set of conditions that seldom exist together, and certainly don't exist in the USA.


Elihu wrote:Debt cannot magically disappear. The piper must always be paid.

:lol: Debt can disappear by marking down the debt. Changing a number on the spreadsheet to zero erases debt. But let's ask, what defines "debt"? Is all "debt" the same? No.

"There is no good reason to use the term 'debt' when referring to outstanding Treasury securities. The expression 'national debt' is really 100 years out of date for America, and does not reflect the modern U.S. financial system."

—Frank N. Newman, former Deputy Secretary of the Treasury


If the piper is the currency-issuing governement, it doesn't have to be repaid. The piper, does, however, need to regulate its regular issue of money by also regularly recalling some portion of it back out of the economy.

A $100 Federal Reserve Note in your wallet (recorded as a govt liability) is paid for at the time its purchased, and doesn't have to be "repaid." Likewise, nor does a $100 Treasury note have to be "repaid," because it was paid for at the time of purchase.

Some versions of the fantasy-horror narrative say that we have to pay the Fed interest, the govt has to pay the Fed interest, and the Fed is "private," stealing from us, etc. All utterly ignorant, paranoid crap.


Elihu wrote:My savings are sometime else's debt.

Net savings come from federal deficits. Real dollar savings in the economy isn't owed to anyone else, not owed to banks, not owed to government. On the other hand, absent federal injectiions (via spending), it's possible for some people to save, but in that case, their savings is indeed owed by someone else to banks.

The private sector cannot produce its own net financial surplus (aka net savings). If the govt never spent more than it taxed back, there'd be no net private savings.

Look at the graph below and see how when the federal deficit rises, so do household savings & business profits. :yay

When the federal deficit falls, so do savings & profits. :hrumph

fredgraph - savs-profits-deficit.png

That's right—federal deficit spending is a primary source of business profits. Cutting the deficit cuts available profits. The idiots coming into power believe the opposite. They are either insane, ignorant, or they're lying (or some combination). Either way, they will set off a severe downturn that won't recover until federal spending is restored. This happens every time. Will they ever learn?


Elihu wrote:Why has not Japan defaulted or suffered hyperinflation ?

A) Because a sovereign nation that issues its own floating exchange rate currency cannot default, cannot become insolvent, can never "go bankrupt."
B) Because the Bank of Japan knows what it's doing. Japan has turned mainstream neoclassical/trickle-down macroeconomics upside down— for the correct orientation.

You've heard of "the widow's trade"? Some people lost 100s of millions of dollars betting that Japan would default. (At least one guy leapt out a window.) See (A) above.


If you listen to Michael Hudson (I hope you do), he explains that the eventual problem could be other nations holding dollars while the US is not producing enough stuff for their dollars to buy.

What's the solution? Modern money economists generally advise cessation of selling bonds altogether when the govt spends more than it taxes back. Or limiting govt securities to very short-term notes. The central bank could issue securities for conduct of monetary policy, if necessary.

That's the other thing—selling bonds is entirely optional for the government, especially since 2008 when the Fed started paying interest on reserves.

Treasury bond issue is an interest rate maintenance operation—not a means of "borrowing" to pay for federal spending.

But FFS, get US productive capacity going again. Four decades of "trickle-down" economics has gutted the US industrial base. INVEST NOW.


:basicsmile Write this down and put it on your 'fridge door:
Bart govt money.jpg
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Re: So what do yall think the new currency is going to be?

Postby Elihu » Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:17 pm

ssssonuva...... football yanked again and by that i mean i was hoping to see the clowns with the mathematical egg on their face one morning but alas not to be. elvis and i will have to traverse the fourth turning arm-in-arm and hand-in-hand with neither of our cases proved out by world events due to the trumpolution or whatever you want to call it. does it matter? the realist in me knew it couldn't be allowed to happen but the dreamer wouldn't listen

All of which is to ask, have you planted a garden? By which I mean are you ready? Because this is going to get really bumpy. The economy and financial systems may well crash or seize up.

And that’s if things go well. If the neocon/Deep State raccoons feel like they need to detonate something to survive, trust me, they will. That’s the wild card in all this, and why I continually beg, plead, and cajole people to consider taking steps to build their personal resilience.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/wha ... eathtaking
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Re: So what do yall think the new currency is going to be?

Postby Elvis » Wed Feb 05, 2025 11:32 am

Coming federal spending cuts + blanket tariffs + further financial deregulation will impoverish the economy and trigger a recession when payments stop flowing. And, almost certainly, a financial system crisis. Like before, the financial crisis won't be an accident; but rather a business plan.

If the new tariffs proceed, in the first year they'll remove $300B from the US economy—with no plan to replace it.

The currency will remain; we'll just have much less of it.
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Re: So what do yall think the new currency is going to be?

Postby Elihu » Fri Feb 07, 2025 2:19 pm

cros post to trump 47 thread
Last edited by Elihu on Fri Feb 07, 2025 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So what do yall think the new currency is going to be?

Postby Elihu » Fri Feb 07, 2025 2:22 pm

i'm sorry, cross ref trump47 thread.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42496&p=712302#p712302
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Re: So what do yall think the new currency is going to be?

Postby Elihu » Wed Feb 26, 2025 8:57 pm

i think i comprehend the doge now. there's a reason they seized that cash volcano first. the revelation that it's all graft and now doge is in control of it. and everybody's guilty. achilles heel, they may leak it out as appropriate. key to the kingdon right there. incredible. with it .....
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Re: So what do yall think the new currency is going to be?

Postby Elihu » Wed Feb 26, 2025 9:03 pm

was it putin who said they would meekly wag their tails at the master's feet,
wow. a new era
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Re: So what do yall think the new currency is going to be?

Postby Elihu » Wed Feb 26, 2025 9:15 pm

let's remind ourselves of the magnitude of the money. it's too big to be accounted for and yet they know everything. an incredible power. and they're counting on us to just forget about it because math is hard. no more taxes, no more banks, no more cops. honesty, transparency. no need for wars or great powerful leaders. why not
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Re: So what do yall think the new currency is going to be?

Postby Elvis » Mon Mar 31, 2025 10:43 pm

Elihu wrote: all graft


Federal spending is all graft?
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Re: So what do yall think the new currency is going to be?

Postby Elihu » Fri Apr 04, 2025 7:11 pm

it was a quick revelation, one had to be paying close attention, i sqauked about it.
congress is a television show. they don't know where bond and tax money comes from or where it goes to, or how it works, or how to control it, or how to do anything about it. If trump could seize it like that, well, have you ever heard pukey republicans this docile? with the world on the brink?)

anyone heard from drevil?

notice the new alignment is corresponding with war activity. Europe is insane if headlines are to be believed. should we pray for the populace to rise up against war insanity? but they're kinda intimidated by their governments and the influx of a new population. that war could be peace tomorrow. post war plan in mind? and russia seemingly getting stronger. wonder what happened with that gold redeeming scheme of theirs?

twitter is considered a reputable source

turkey /syria
v
russia / iran

isreal both sides
usa with isreal

i'm taking europe to be a toothless culturally influential poodle

does that about sum it up?, asia in there somewhere in the mix

and the ultimate, ultimate, ultimate fact (again are headlines believable?, dunno): the government maybe hasn't been keeping books, but the banking system has. you know what you're looking for: somewhere between 4.7 and 6 trillion dollars. until you can add up to that, uh, graft

limit intake from headlines and news sources. zerohedge makes me nautious, noshis, nauzius?

gold coins in hand fix this because it's the only bi-lateral money in existence. that bi laterality is needed to facilitate spontaneity which equals growth. system money is tri-lateral. it consumes the energy needed for spontaneity at the source and returns nothing to that system, work the next day and wastes everything it consumes on vanity.. hence six trillion. it's not a creed. it is a system that works.
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