Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

[Hunter]

For sure, I certainly do not have any answers and everything I say is just guesswork and grasping at straws but I do trust my eyes, I know it when I see it.

[Hunter]

Here is a sick bastard for you:

Greg Ball @ball4ny

So, scum bag #2 in custody. Who wouldn't use torture on this punk to save more lives?

To be honest, people like him worry me more than the kid does, he is a sick sociopath to advocate torture of any human being no matter what they did, not to mention torture is the least effective way to get accurate information out of someone, and they KNOW THAT, which makes me wonder if they simply dont just like torturing people for the fuck of it even though they know it wont get them the info they want and the person being tortured will just say whatever they have to say to make it stop.


Greg Ball @ball4ny

So, scum bag #2 in custody. Who wouldn't use torture on this punk to save more lives?

Greg Ball, a state senator in New York, suggested Friday that authorities should "torture" the captured Boston bombing suspect, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, who is a naturalized American citizen and remains in serious condition at an area hospital.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/e ... ng-suspect



I believe very firmly that everyone, no matter what they did or are accused of, should have the right to counsel and should have the same fair trial that every American citizen is entitled to. I would personally have no conflict representing this kid and I would do everything in my power to make sure that the state had to prove their case and meet their burden of beyond reasonable doubt and if they didnt I would further work to make sure he wasnt convicted, that is just how our system works and the only way to keep it healthy is to hold the state to its duty and obligation to prove its case and if they cant the accused should walk, regardless of who they are and what they did.

[justdrew]

get in line, ramsey clark inbound in 3.... 2....

---

yeah, torture. crazy shit. Let in all probability, a sizable percentage of the population would agree with Mr Ball. Why? Because they don't care about stupid things like facts. Until the American people change, the policy of the leadership will not. Unfortunately A LOT of people can't be bothered to vote. If they did, we might, might be able to get the Mr. Ball's the hell out of power.

but you know, we've got a sizable PRO TORTURE lobby in this country, they're overwhelmingly republicans.

[divideandconquer]

Okay, I'll admit, I have no idea how heavy weapons, ammo, and tactical gear weigh, so I'll post the quote from a guy who has studied the Adam Lanza case and who does understand military equipment and the like..

Mike Powers: “That get’s us to the surveillance video, Sandy Hook had just recently installed a very high protocol security system. The teachers were taught how to react and received certain instructions. They had all received a set of keys to lock their classrooms, with the exception of Lauren Rousseau. She was a Canadian national substitute teacher, hers was the first classroom that sustained heavy casualties according to the story, and eventual it was her car out in the parking lot that also sustained massive amounts of gunfire, which indicates there was gunshots fired outside in the parking lot. This draws another question, why was there only one call to Sandy Hook dispatch?”

[...]

Mike Powers: “None of the neighbors heard massive amounts of gunfire, from all these enormous weapons? In the timeline recordings you can hear that Staff members at Sandy Hook Elementary believes they hearing what they believe to be gunfire at this time. The typical AR 15 Rifle has a 16 inch barrel, and in States where it is not legally prohibited, comes with a muffle break. Anybody who has any education in the firearm industry will tell you, that this combination of the 5.56 millimeter rounds with the muffle break and the short barrel, produces a much more loud then average hyper-sonic snap. They’re consistently known of being louder.”

"This only re-doubles our opinions in this matter, how could this individual walk into an enclosed space, with an un-suppressed carbine and fire 100 of rounds. He fired hundreds of rounds in the school, and was still carrying on his person hundreds more that he had not discharged. Essentially you are talking about 165 decibel or better percussive impact on the human nervous system, inside of an enclosed space like that. That’s simply just not possible.”

“I had actually 2 phone interviews with Doctors from Otolaryngology yesterday, and this is the level we take our investigation to. I’m not going to asses it on my own personal information, or my own personal level of training. I’m going to take this to industry professionals who have PhD’s in these matters to make sure that my information is correct, and both of those Doctors in Otolaryngology have indicated that the impact on the Eustachian tube of the inner ear would be devastating under those conditions.”

“The individual would lose balance, cognitive ability, just from the shock of the incident. So, it is all of these things. Not just one isolated thing, or one minor detail. It’s the entire pile of all the details, from all different directions. This is one of the main reasons why we are committed to this. If this is to be the catalyst, that fundamentally changes this nation at its core, constitutionally, we’re not going down without a fight.”

[...]

Mike Powers:“You can go on YouTube and look up Green Barrett, Navy Seal, Army Delta, even basic infantry operators these days, will carry a minimum of 210 rounds, on a standard combat level, which is 7 magazines, one in the weapon and six on the kit, but what they alleged him to have had was 100 of rounds that he shot, hundreds of rounds that he didn’t. They indicated that he was wearing a bulletproof west, that he was wearing some form of tactical west, which enabled him to carry all of this.

“...look up tactical gear on the internet, you can see where a basic tactical vest will have pockets on one side or both for carrying magazines. Now in order for him to be in full compliance with the story and actually carrying those hundreds of rounds, what that indicates to me is that he would have had to have pockets on both sides of the vest. So Adam Lanza is about 120 pounds, they say he came into the building approximately carrying his ammunition and body weight in kit.”

“He had 4 handguns, then he had a rifle, they can’t make up their mind. Let’s go back to the tragedy of the DC sniper. The very moment they took the DC Sniper into custody, within minutes the media had pictures of the AR15 rifle. You have not seen a single picture of the weapons, or any of the kit. This is also to tie into Aurora Colorado, James Eagan Holmes, all these other most recent incidents.”...

“As far as the weapon is concerned, gaining access to the school. I have a picture that shows the front of the school, with all the glass being intact. When you listen to the dispatchers initial report to the first responding officers, they believe the front glass has been broken out and they are unsure why. Not shot out. The picture that I have in my possession now, is a Connecticut police officer, escorting 2 women and a child away and you can clearly look over his shoulder and see another officer standing there at the entrance with the carbine and all the glass is still intact.”

[...]

Mike Powers: “As far as access to the building is concerned, you are talking about a 120 pound mentally disabled kid, who’s carrying an immense amount of weight and equipment, btw one thing that I do wanted to point out is, that if he was wearing a tactical vest with all these magazines on them, a tactical vest is made for heavy set guys, he is a skinny lanky kid. He would have a very difficult time locating equipment properly. Some people would argue and say he was wearing a fire rig, which is a holster that drops your belt line to carry additional kits. But you can bet your dollars that the media would have reported that.”

“This again presents the problem of dynamic flow, first, how did he compromise the door? All security doors are hinged on the inside. If it was glass, it would have been made of sufficient thickness to sustain weather conditions, slamming of doors, so you’re not talking about a single pane of glass here. The particular round he used is also very well documented for fragmentation, when it strikes its target, it tends to fragment apart and create a type of form, where it bounces off and goes in different directions.”

“This also leads to yet another problem. They are saying he piled all these kids up in the corner and just started shooting. Statistically and physically speaking I’m not convinced that this round would have the ability to penetrate through that thick off a wall of meat, I apologize for further grotesque reference, but it’s necessary to explain it so people can understand. Penetration is everything, for every inch of flesh that this round penetrates, it looses energy.”

[...]

Mike Powers:“It would have been virtually impossible for someone of Adam’s size, lack of stature. Even if it did shatter, it would become so unwieldy, sharp edges, busted glass. Now that’s the thing you really got to think about logically, you have to assume, that the foundation of the front door of an Elementary school is safe, there are regulations in place, state safety regulations. You wouldn’t want a glass door to shatter into 1 billion little glass pieces to shred your child in case of an accident you would want their to be some level of protection, which also indicates there should be laminated glass.”

“Which makes the official story that much more difficult. You sit there and notice the lack of pictures. There have been no pictures whatsoever.. My first thought in any of these high stress situations, mass casualty incidents, when you go in there, being an instructor of personal defense, is very simple. Why did you not push to children out the window? You heard somebody shooting outside in the hallway, or in another classroom, why would you huddle up in the corner and read the children Christmas stories. Why wouldn’t you open the Windows, push the kids out the window and tell them to run to the fire-station, which was just up the end of the driveway.”

These are the things, that occupy my mind at night. This prevents me from going to sleep, this will be my first thought for the preservation or the protection of the life of those children. You would do anything to get them out of harms path. I question any professional instructor, that would teach teachers to have kids sit down Indian style, in a target shape circle, and wait for a madman. Oh, we will just lock the door. Well, if he had all the firepower they alleged he had, he can simply shoot the lock out of the door and kick it in with his Super huge Rambo legs and then he is off on his killing spree. I also find it highly suspect that substitute teacher Lauren Russo one of the only staff members present was not issued a set of keys to lock the door.

[...]

Mike Powers: “There are military operators, SWAT operators, there are guys who trained their entire life, hours and days in the gym, getting to the best possible fitness they can and possibly be in. Training their entire lives to do it. And you don’t just walk into one of these teams, you have to prove yourself, before you get to that level and can be brought in to that community. And I’m going to keep stressing this, because it’s critically important.”

“A 120 pound developmentally disabled kid, to suddenly reach the exact same peak of operational performance and pull of a stunt, within the first 3 min. he discharged hundreds of rounds which as we discussed earlier would have beat him senseless physically. You have one call and get a massive level of response, which is one of the reasons that there are people out there suggesting that this was actually part of a mass casualty drill, that was taking place 35 min. away from Sandy Hook.”

“They are already set up, prepped in their kit. One of the most disturbing details that initially came out was, within the first 60 min., at 9:37, they said the first call came in, at 9:41 was the initial dispatch that they gave to the responding officer, that said they believe what appears to be gunfire from outside the school. Okay, that was a huge red flag. If they hear gunfire outside of the school, why did not any of the neighbors hear it and why didn’t they call?”

[Hunter]

Oh and for those of you who looked at the pic I posted, the gory one of the older brother on the autopsy table, there was a huge HOLE in the side of his chest the size of a regular computer keyboard and some suggested it was from a VEST BOMB he may have detonated, while he did apparently detonate one the hole, I found out, was from a medical procedure called a Thorocotomy.

So anyway, just wanted to pass that along.




THIS FOLLOWING LINK IS ABOUT THAT PICTURE AND HIS MEDICAL CARE it does show the dead body but they BLUR OUT THE GORY PART so this may be easier for some of you to look and not get too freaked out, the related story is about the doctors being pissed that the picture was released because of HIPPA laws and the hospital chief said that they did NOT take the picture or release the picture and it was taken by someone else AFTER the hospital turned his body back over to the FBI and it was in their care and the hospital had nothing to do with releasing or taking that photo.


AGAIN THE PIC SHOWS A DEAD BODY WITH SOME BLOOD, the actual injuries are quite disturbing and the gore stuff in this pic is at least blurred out so its not so bad. SO KEEP THIS IN MIND IF YOU CLICK THIS LINK:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/tam ... oto-478612



A grisly post-mortem photo of one of the suspected Boston Marathon bombers appears to have been taken early today after medical personnel turned the body over to law enforcement officials.

The image of Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, began circulating online this afternoon after it was posted on popular web sites like Reddit and 4chan. The source of the photo remains unclear.

Seen above, the picture shows Tsarnaev--naked from the hip up--after he died at 1:35 AM at Boston’s Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. Tsarnaev was mortally wounded during a gun battle between him and his 19-year-old brother Dzhokar and police.

In an interview, Dr. Richard Wolfe, chief of the hospital’s emergency medicine department, said that he had seen the photo, but stressed that the image “was not taken during the medical procedures or when the medical team had control of the body.”

While Wolfe said that he would be greatly concerned “if it was a health care provider,” he flatly added that, at no point, did hospital staffers photograph Tsarnaev’s body.

Wolfe said that after Tsarnaev was pronounced dead, his body was moved to a “non-clinical area” where custody of the corpse was turned over to law enforcement officials.

The graphic photo shows gunshot wounds to Tsarnaev’s body as well as a large thorocotomy incision on his chest. Additionally, portions of Tsarnaev’s face and right shoulder reflect a discoloration that Wolfe termed “purplish lividity.”

[justdrew]

this adds what Alchemy? enough already.

[FourthBase]

Let's assume, purely for the sake of discussion, that it's just two random Chechen brothers who did it all by themselves from scratch, and the surviving brother stays alive and isn't sent to a torture dungeon to invent whatever "facts" will establish the right narrative, etc. Let's say he goes to trial, but is acquitted purely on a technicality and then flies to an non-extraditable country where he brazenly unrepentently on television admits to and boasts of the marathon bombing. Then someday after that, I'm walking around Boston and, lo and behold, I bump into him, and there's no one else around. And I ask him if he is indeed Suspect #2, and he affirms, smiling. In that very narrow, impossibly-unlikely scenario, and probably only such a scenario, I would, in fact, beat the shit out of him with whatever object I could find, but not kill him, and would, in fact, try my best to overcome my nausea over the prospect of deliberately committing any physical violence even to a minuscule insect, and try to cause him as much physical pain as humanly possible in ways I will not describe here. Sue me, lol. Is that what the kind of torture he'd get at Gitmo would be? No, that would be inhuman brainwashing kind of torture, for a sinister purpose, most likely. The kind I described above comes from a very human impulse. Revenge? Sure, that. Reciprocity, more like. A principle of behavior as old as sentient life, ingrained in us as an instinct. It's only human to want to torture the kind of person I described above, in that scenario. Thing is, that scenario is what most of the Bostonians you will hear clamoring for real-Tsarnaev's torture perceive as reality. Should you blame them? Hate them? I don't think so. Try reasoning with them, informing them, clue-ing them in to the bigger, deeper, stranger picture that may lurk behind this one 19-year-old's long Bin-Laden-ish face. If you condemn them reflexively for expressing a somewhat-normal human emotional reaction, then they may not listen to the information and questions you have to offer them. We need Boston to ask questions, not be put on the defensive about the ethics of blurting a natural sentiment. You need to wise up Bostonians, not look for an opportunity to indict them so that their...our...feelings will stop making you feel uncomfortable. (This was directed to no one in particular, really, just a general point.)

[FourthBase]

this adds what Alchemy? enough already.

Am I the only person here who has viewed autopsy photos of JFK hundreds of times?
I cannot be. That picture of #1 is hardly even close to the brain-spilling JFK gore.
(If he's guilty, actually, that picture kind of sort of pleases me.)

[Hunter]

Just passing information along, there are several choices the reader has if they dont like another posters contribution, one would be to simply scroll past it, another would be to go in to user controls and use ignore and a third would be to whine about it.

Ill be happy to delete the fucking post if it offends that much, I am one who believes things should be documented for posterity and that was my intention with this.

That said, I agree there is no further reason to revisit the issue beyond this.


The issue with the article in this case is to highlight that someone with the FBI who the body was turned over to, decided it was a good idea to take a picture and leak it because the hospital is saying they had nothing to do with it and respected HIPPA LAWS. I think this point was worth noting and I could not post the source of the article without the link and the link includes the offensive pic, so I did the best I could do.


Have a nice evening.

[justdrew]

really! how do you scroll? is that like clicking? or?

[Hunter]

really! how do you scroll? is that like clicking? or?

Lets not do this, I like your contributions here Drew, my apology for being snarky, I have been attacked all day on some other forums for discussing things that we all openly discuss here and I am on edge, again my apologies for being an ass to you.

[FourthBase]

Just passing information along, there are several choices the reader has if they dont like another posters contribution, one would be to simply scroll past it, another would be to go in to user controls and use ignore and a third would be to whine about it.

Ill be happy to delete the fucking post if it offends that much, I am one who believes things should be documented for posterity and that was my intention with this.

That said, I agree there is no further reason to revisit the issue beyond this.


The issue with the article in this case is to highlight that someone with the FBI who the body was turned over to, decided it was a good idea to take a picture and leake it because the hospital is saying they had nothing to do with it and respected HIPPA LAWS. I think this point was worth noting and I could post the source of the article without the link and the link includes the offensive pic, so I did the best I could do.


Have a nice evening.

Yep. And, why? To please people more or less like me?
To reinforce the sense of focusing blindly on these two?

Inquiring minds...

[barracuda]

Okay, I'll admit, I have no idea how heavy weapons, ammo, and tactical gear weigh, so I'll post the quote from a guy who has studied the Adam Lanza case and who does understand military equipment and the like..

Post this in the Newtown thread and I'll be tempted to deconstruct the various problems and assumptions at play that render these arguments null. Not here, though.

[divideandconquer]

Just passing information along, there are several choices the reader had if they dont like another posters contribution, one would be to simply scroll past it, another would be to go in to user controls and use ignore and a third would be to whine about it.

Ill be happy to delete the fucking post if it offends that much, I am one who believes things should be documented for posterity and that was my intention with this.

That said, I agree there is no further reason to revisit the issue beyond this.

Have a nice evening.

I, for one, appreciate your contributions. You never know when a piece of evidence may become important.

[justdrew]

really! how do you scroll? is that like clicking? or?

Lets not do this, I like your contributions here Drew, my apology for being snarky, I have been attacked all day on some other forums for discussing things that we all openly discuss here and I am on edge, again my apologies for being an ass to you.

it's fine, I'm just saturated with this shit and a little over sensitive to reading (well, scanning actually) some of that text, the picture is actually less annoying than the text for me. but that's just me.