Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby bks » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:39 am

Can someone take mercy on a later arrriver? I've read the last few pages but wish to know:

1. What is the first confirmed contact between either of the brothers and US intel/law enforcement?

2. What if anything remains strange about the brothers' behavior after the bombing? One might expect them to act normally until they've been identified as suspects, after which all bets are off, obviously. Was there something strange about their behavior to indiciate they felt they had protections, were double crossed, etc?

3. What are the best reports for the extent and nature of the paramilitary action undertaken by the police/gov't? How many people in Watertown had their homes entered, best estimate? Was the whole city ordered to stay still? That can't be, can it?

4, What other important inconsistencies remain to this moment?

Link/summaries vastly appreciated. :)
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Sounder » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:49 am

Thanks elf, from your link, this seems to be the good explanation from sanderbelts.

I should have known from the music and production values that that vid was disinfo. Oh well, I am thick.



[–]sanderbelts 5 points 4 days ago

I made a mistake with the times that I posted (and edited out), because the time of posting reported in a tweet's details will change depending on the timezone that is set in your account.

Either way, the only thing that matters is the order of the tweets, not the times that twitter shows.

First report of explosions

Notice about controlled explosions 1

Notice about controlled explosions 2

You're trying to give the impression that the tweets about controlled explosions came before the first explosion tweet. You never linked to the first explosion tweet.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:59 am

Alchemy wrote:Wanted to add that if you go and read the kids twitter one tweet he is talking to someone about something not sure what but he says to the other person:

https://twitter.com/J_tsar

HERE IT IS can someone get the actual screen shot of it up for us?

Jahar ‏@J_tsar 16 Apr
@therealAbdul_ #heavy I've been looking for those, there is a shortage on the black market if you wanna make a quick buck, nuff said..


I have no clue how you post a picture of a tweet on here, but if someone could go look at his twitter and geta copy of that tweet it would be good to have for the thread. You dont have to dig deep, its in the first few tweets down just a bit.


This tells me he is likely in contact with someone selling black market items, gee I wonder what those things would be, bombs, grenades, which they were reported to have used, and I further I wonder who his friendly local black market salesman is, I will let you draw that conclusion...I think you can come up with a good one.


I can just envision it all:

Informant to handler "yea he is buying all sorts of shit from me man, looks like he is gonna pull something off, what should we do about it."


Handler to informant "not a thing, we got it under control, just keep taking care of business on your end and let us handle the specifics."


Handler to supervisor "boss we got a live one, its the kid we been watching from Chechnya, looks like he has big plans, we got him were we want him now, lets bring him in."

Supervisor to handler "dont do anything, word from above says the kid is untouchable, we have been ordered to stand down, word is he might be working for us deep cover to smoke others out, the threat is not real, just play along and handle your informant and have him keep doing what he does and I will be talking to some of the brass this week about what the plan is."

Handler to supervisor "so wait, youre saying my informant is working another informant, im getting confused who the good guys are here sir."

Supervisor to handler "dont worry about that, just do your job, thats why I get paid the big bucks, let me do the worrying and you just do what I tell you to."

Handler walks off scratching his head...

:praybow


On CBS Sunday Morning, the uncle was interviewed and was INSISTENT that the older Tsarnaev was turned radical by someone physically in Cambridge, not anyone overseas or only online. Not in a sense that "It must have been", but that he was very sure that IT WAS.

I mentioned above the deported Russian spies, who had lived in that area of Cambridge where the carjacking occurred. Are there more spies there? (The night in early 2008 when I went to a party in that area, got extremely weirdly drunk on not so much alcohol, blacked/browned out as I left and refused a ride with a dear friend who I was worried was too drunk to drive but may have actually been sober in retrospect, wound up staggering up and down Mass Ave. in the middle of the wee hours, literally shrieking at God for a host of things but especially for the existence of meat, wound up waking up in fucking Hyde Park at a bus stop as the daily commute commenced, wondering how the fuck I got there, why my pants pocket was slightly torn, vaguely remembering an encounter with police...at that party, in the room I did not hang out much in, were an assortment of foreign nationals including at least one Russian. Was it maybe just some predatory eurotrash douche who slipped something into a drink for a female, which I accidentally consumed? Perhaps. Is it strange to see foreign nationals at a party in Cambridge? Nope, it would be strange not to, if you're friends with enough smart people and the party there is large enough. Still, for whatever reason, for whatever it's worth, that happened.)

But let's not overlook the possibility that there genuinely are Muslim radicals in the world, real ones not only the puppets, and perhaps there are some genuine violent extremists lurking and hiding in local mosques amongst all the good decent Muslims, and perhaps one of them in Cambridge or Boston took the older Tsarnaev under his (or her) wing. And, of course, perhaps he will receive a nice bonus in his FBI paycheck this week? Who knows. Just speculation, but well-reasoned speculation.

The older Tsarnaev has a wife, by the way.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:03 am

Context and Contact: Exploring Agents of Influence in the Boston Attacks
Written by Chris Floyd
Saturday, 20 April 2013 10:11

Without wishing to indulge in deep-fried conspiracy gobbling at this point, I will say that the revelations about the FBI's prior involvement with one of the suspected Boston attackers, apparently going on for years, are of great interest. Even more so in the light of the fact that a very large number of the terrorist attacks and attempted terrorist attacks in the United States over the past two decades have turned out to have had significant FBI involvement, often in the form of outright provocation by FBI infiltrators, egging on and sometimes even planning attacks that were later "foiled" -- by the FBI.

This doesn't automatically mean that the FBI or other government agencies were "behind" the events in Boston; sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes people do bad things without government prompting. But the consistent pattern of prior FBI involvement, in various degrees and at various stages, with people and groups that later go on to attempt or carry out violent actions cannot be ignored, and should be more thoroughly explored in this case. Particularly considering the fact the agency at first denied having any contact with the suspect -- until her mother outed them to the media. From CBS News:

Although the FBI initially denied contacting Tsarnaev, the brothers' mother said they had in an interview with Russia Today. Zubeidat Tsarnaeva said her son got involved in "religious politics" about five years ago, and never told her he was involved in "jihad."

She insisted the FBI "knew what he was doing on Skype" and that they counseled him "every step of the way."

Tsarnaeva went on to say that "they were controlling him, they were controlling his every step...and now they say that this is a terrorist act." That may or may not be true; certainly if I were the parent of someone in this situation, that's what I would want to believe. But the now-established involvement of the FBI, as well as the probable involvement of both the American and Russian intelligence agencies with Tamerlan Tsarnaev, should not be ignored when the reasons and roots behind the Boston attack and its bloody aftermath are explored.

That said, it is of course very likely that these connections will be ignored, as the well-worn narrative of "good boys turned bad by Islam" hardens into conventional wisdom. This narrative might be the truth in this case -- but it also works to the advantage of so many powerful forces. This is true not just for those opposing immigration in the the United States (that bloody shirt is already being waved frantically by many American politicians and other high-toned peddlers of racial and ethnic enmity), but even moreso for all those in power structures around the world who profit -- politically and financially -- from the vast engines of a military-security complex gorging on the fear of Islamic terrorism. (Other kinds of terrorism -- particularly the far more constant and far more murderous attacks of state terrorism -- don't bother them too much.)

Most immediately, this incident will greatly strengthen the military-security apparat in the United States and Russia, helping further demonize Muslims in general for the American apparatchiks and Chechens in particular for the Russians -- especially all those opposed to the brutal rule of the Kremlin and its satrap in Chechnya. But every political power structure that feeds on fear -- and which ones do not? -- will benefit from the crime spree in Boston, whatever its origins.

Again, these are just speculations, drawing on the few facts that are known at present, and putting them in the context of recent history. Perhaps the Tsarnaev brothers were lone operators: tormented individuals emerging from the brutal and brutalizing background of invasion, repression, violence and murder that characterizes modern Chechnya, who then internalized this violence and hatred, and sought, in anguish, ignorance and error, to expel it by directing it outward toward some generalized enemy, a demonized Other. Perhaps not. Perhaps other psychological factors were at work that we know nothing of at the moment. Perhaps not. Perhaps some agency or other of some military-security apparat somewhere seized on these troubled individuals and turned them toward the agency's own ends, with results that were either intended or else slipped far beyond the agency's wishes or control. Perhaps not.

But I think there are deeper contexts to the case -- whether these are restricted to the twisting of individual psyches by the greater geopolitical and cultural forces that have done so much pointless violence to us all, and in particular to the direct targets of massive power structures, such as Chechnya or, latterly, the Muslim world at large, or whether there are more specific involvements of military-security apparatchiks in the development of this murderous tragedy. Yet, as already noted, we will almost certainly see none of these deeper contexts explored in the earnest postmortems -- by politicians, pundits, academics and self-appointed "experts" of every stripe -- in the weeks and months to come.

Listen to Scott Horton - good shows this week


http://scotthorton.org/

4/19/13 Philip Giraldi

Philip Giraldi, Executive Director of The Council for the National Interest, discusses the Boston Marathon bombing; the “surgical strikes” legal justification for drone attacks; the war in Syria; and the US empire’s messy and ugly decline.


4/19/13 Anthony Gregory

Anthony Gregory, author of The Power of Habeas Corpus in America: From the King’s Prerogative to the War on Terror, discusses the 20 years of state terror since the FBI/ATF massacre of Branch Davidians at Waco; the precedent of killing rather than capturing criminal suspects; and why blood-lusting Americans are eager to accept the lies


Scott Horton from anti-war has done a good job interviewing people, exposing numerous deliberately unsucessfull FBI created false terror attacks. But this attack was now successful. Allowing for some government involvement, is the FBI or other government agency now using patsies, to not just scare most of the American people with failed terror attacks which had minimal pubic fear response, to now deliberately murdering fellow americans to create hyper fear in the people ? Just look at the public and media reaction. No matter if the Tsarnaev brothers were working alone, this is just what the abusers of power love to see. The upcoming increase in more government and corporate fascist powers based on the Boston Attack, will be the answer to just how much more abusive the elite can get.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Karmamatterz » Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:58 am

If the Boston PD had only had a well funded drone program these suspects could have been caught so much sooner. Ya know, one of them new ones that have the billion pixel cameras...... :moresarcasm

It's very interesting about this all happening so close to huge areas of Interest to a lot of intel agencies, not just U.S. agencies either. You know we'll for sure the other countries are interested in who works for DARPA, MIT, Harvard etc... These agencies also want to know what they are working on. Only seems to make sense they would have boots on the ground to collect data. Have no idea of the actual connections, but when you look at the totality it this entire menagerie there is as as Jeff or others say, "a lot of high weirdness."

Also, IF the FBI had been in contact with the brothers from a Russian intel tip they would have had photographs. There would have been at the very least a passport photo if the kids were traveling back to Russia/Cheneya et al...right?

If there were photographs of the suspects that the U.S. intel agencies had from either interviews, surveillance or passport, why ON EARTH DIDN'T THEY GET A MATCH WITH FACIAL RECOGNITION SOFTWARE AFTER THE VIDEO IMAGES WERE RELEASED?

Was the whole release of images to the public on April 18 a ruse? Or am I missing something? If so, somebody please point out my fallacy in this thinking..... Thanks.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:13 pm

NY Post, I know. Don't care. Could be useful.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/s ... EZRFhdcOsI
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby compared2what? » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:18 pm

stickdog99 wrote:What is exactly is the difference between between cops who look and perform their duties exactly like like military troops "securing" my neighborhood and actual military troops "securing" my neighborhood?


Think about it.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Hunter » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:29 pm

You know, there isnt even a need for crazy conspiracy theories anymore, just looking at the raw facts and data in front of us these days is wild and crazy enough.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:42 pm

compared2what? wrote:
stickdog99 wrote:What is exactly is the difference between between cops who look and perform their duties exactly like like military troops "securing" my neighborhood and actual military troops "securing" my neighborhood?


Think about it.


You can, too. If it looks like troops, shoots like troops, and busts in my door like troops ...

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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:48 pm

we will almost certainly see none of these deeper contexts explored in the earnest postmortems -- by politicians, pundits, academics and self-appointed "experts" of every stripe -- in the weeks and months to come.
-- Chris Floyd
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:50 pm

Where is the pic of a door being busted in, family accosted, etc.?

Pics, or it didn't happen. (Testimony could work, too, though.)
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:01 pm

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/boston-bombings-how-cops-citizens-tech-lead-to-quick-success-in-manhunt_843714.html

The next big break came during the pre-dawn hours of Friday when a motorist was carjacked and taken hostage.

The two carjackers told the driver that they bombed the Boston Marathon and just killed a police officer.

The brothers then acquired another vehicle in a manner that authorities have yet to detail, the report said.

But it was the first vehicle, a carjacked Mercedes SUV, that gave police a stroke of technological fortune.

The carjacking victim left his cell phone in the SUV.

"Lucky for him and lucky for us that his cell phone remained in that vehicle," said Police Chief Edward Deveau of Watertown, Massachusetts.

Police began tracking the cell phone and the Tsarnaev brothers themselves.

They were in Watertown, a suburb of Boston, where police engaged them, now in two cars, in a fierce gunfight. One of them also threw bombs at police.

But as police handcuffed the older brother, the younger barrelled toward them in the carjacked SUV. He then drove over his older brother, dragging him a short distance down the street, police said.

Authorities did not have an immediate explanation as to why he ran over his big brother.


http://www.wggb.com/2013/04/20/chief-over-200-shots-fired-in-fri-morning-gunfight-with-bombing-suspect/

The events stemmed from the fatal shooting of another officer late Thursday night. Sean Collier, an MIT campus police officer, was responding to a loud disturbance call when one of the brothers shot him in his cruiser, Deveau said.

It was from there the brothers allegedly carjacked the Mercedes, forcing it’s driver to withdraw cash from an ATM. Eventually they did let the victim go, but not before confessing that they were the ones responsible for both the marathon bombings as well as the police officers death, said Deveau.

Luckily for the authorities, the victim’s cell phone remained inside the SUV, allowing them to determine the vehicle was in Watertown and enabling them to catch up to it.


http://fox8.com/2013/04/20/chief-manhunt-began-with-intense-firefight/

Police are confident, however, that there are no other suspects, Deveau said.

“From what I know right now, these two acted together and alone,” he said. “As far as this little cell and this little group, I think we got our guys.”



*****


So they carjack a Mercedes, force the owner to take out cash from the ATM, admit to him that they did everything, and then let the guy go. Who is this guy? What is his name? What does he do for a living? Why hasn't any intrepid news team gotten an interview with this quick thinking hero about his exhilarating and harrowing encounter with the evil terrorists?
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby General Patton » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:12 pm

stickdog99 wrote:
You can, too. If it looks like troops, shoots like troops, and busts in my door like troops ...


These guys are pretty hardcore.

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SOMEBODY GET SOME COLD WATER FOR CP
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby KeenInsight » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:56 pm

The way I see it, the first operation didn't work. The first suspect they brought to a court, and then cancelled, is apparently being deported back to Saudi Arabia. The first patsy solution was the initial setup. If they found that the guy is innocent, then he wouldn't need to be deported right? I see that as trying to appease or not embarrass the Saudi's. There were also Israel cop's or commando's that arrived in the U.S. at the time of this event.

Plan B, or perhaps part of the same plan, was to use the radicalized kids. They were either brainwashed or otherwise handled by a U.S. intelligence agency. That is my prediction for the information that will come out in the coming months or years after this event, as has been the case with other events. We already have the first bread crumbs from the relatives of the suspects themselves. Someone(s) had been in contact with these kids (or the oldest) for 3-5 years! That is plenty of time to brainwash or otherwise push them into radicalization. And if the relatives that are speaking out go missing or end up dead, there is not a doubt in mind who will be responsible.

The first WTC bombing, for instance, an informant was on the inside and did nothing to prevent it, because their orders were not to (that informant was duped by whoever was pulling the strings).

Lastly, the so-called prediction by an anonymous whistleblower, posted on 4Chan on how the event may unfold. It is mostly becoming true.

This was posted HOURS before the attack:

Image

And now look at this:

http://www.lautenberg.senate.gov/newsro ... id=341435&

Newsroom: Press Releases

In Wake of Boston Attack, Lautenberg to Reintroduce Legislation Requiring Background Checks for Sale of Explosive Powder
Current Law Allows "Black Powder" and Other Explosives To Be Purchased Without Any Checks
Lautenberg Press Office, 202-224-3224
Wednesday, April 17, 2013

WASHINGTON, D.C.—In the wake of the deadly bombing attacks in Boston, U.S. Senator Frank R. Lautenberg (D-NJ) today announced that he will reintroduce legislation he has proposed in a prior Congress to require that sales of explosive powder be subject to a background check. He will also file the legislation as an amendment to the gun violence prevention bill currently on the Senate floor.

Current law allows an individual to purchase as much as 50 pounds of explosive “black powder” without a background check, and also permits an individual to purchase unlimited amounts of dangerous “smokeless powder” and “black powder substitute” without a background check. Sen. Lautenberg’s proposal would change that and require a background check for any purchase of these explosive powders. These powders can be used as the explosive material in assembling pipe bombs, used in the Columbine school shooting, and pressure cooker bombs, which may have been used in the recent Boston attack.

“It is outrageous that anyone, even a known terrorist, can walk into a store in America and buy explosives without any questions asked,” said Senator Lautenberg. “If we are serious about public safety, we must put these common-sense safeguards in place. While the police have not revealed what specific explosive materials were used in Boston, what we do know is that explosive powder is too easy to anonymously purchase across the country.”

Lautenberg will introduce the “Explosive Materials Background Check Act,” which will:

· Require a background check to purchase black powder, black powder substitute, smokeless powder, or any other explosive, in any quantity;

· Provide the Attorney General with the authority to stop the sale of explosives when a background check reveals that the applicant is a known or suspected terrorist and the Attorney General reasonably believes that the person may use the explosives in connection with terrorism; and

· Make it illegal to manufacture homemade explosives without a permit.

Lautenberg introduced a similar proposal in 2003 as part of his “Homeland Security Gun Safety Act of 2003.” Current law does not require an individual to produce a permit, identification or undergo a background check when purchasing up to fifty pounds of black powder. To make matters worse, no permit or background check is required for the purchase of any quantity of black powder substitute or smokeless powder. Current explosives laws also do not prevent the manufacture of homemade explosives without a license, unless the manufacturer is “engaged in the business” of making explosives.

In October 2010, Sen. Lautenberg released a report, “Firearms, Explosives and Terrorists – A Looming Threat – A Major U.S. Vulnerability,” examining the dangers posed to the United States by terrorism attacks using explosives. The report points to the Mumbai attacks and attempted bombing in Times Square, as demonstrating the interest and ability of terrorists to launch attacks in the United States using explosives.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby General Patton » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:14 pm

KeenInsight wrote:Lastly, the so-called prediction by an anonymous whistleblower, posted on 4Chan on how the event may unfold. It is mostly becoming true.

This was posted HOURS before the attack:


And reposted, and reposted, and reposted literally hundreds of times on a schedule of about 4 hours on different 4chan boards:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=36276#p498291

Both black powder and reloading powder are classified as low-explosives, though reloading powder really only works as a propellant. Bills like this are shelved for months or years at a time until a political situation comes along that could garner support for it.

Also, I doubt they're going to find an NRA handbook given that his twitter account suggests he was pro gun control.
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