Are animal activists insane??

[Horatio Hellpop]

'We want this baby polar bear dead' say animal rights lobby

http://tinyurl.com/273k7t

[jingofever]

"The zoo must kill the bear," said spokesman Frank Albrecht. "Feeding by hand is not species-appropriate but a gross violation of animal protection laws."

I agree absolutely. This animal must die the traditional polar bear's death, by lethal injection.

[orz]

The world needs more human activists

[11:11]

Like all other groups of people, animal rights activists, of which I am one, are not monolithic. Many of us do not believe in nonsense like this.

[Sepka]

These are the sort of people who view animals more as an abstract symbol of 'nature' than as living individuals.

[Horatio Hellpop]

PETA have a facility where they put down dogs rather than have them 'enslaved' by human owners

[FourthBase]

PETA have a facility where they put down dogs rather than have them 'enslaved' by human owners

Good god that's retarded.
So is this polar bear nonsense.

[11:11]

PETA believes in the idea of dead over suffering. I understand that, but they have put ZERO effort into other solutions, such as no kill shelters, like Best Friends Animal Sanctuary. Believe, most people in animal rights and rescue are not in favor of killing as a solution. PETA has done great work exposing the atrocities of vivisection, and for that I am grateful, but their stance on companion animals is full of shit, imo.

[FourthBase]

There's an obvious and profound difference between vivisection/torture and what the retards at PETA define as "suffering". People already know that torturing animals is wrong. There is absolutely nothing else PETA should be doing right now besides stopping people from eating meat. Animals aren't suffering too much -- if at all -- from being milked, egged, shaved, kept as pets, kept in zoos, etc. The problem is that they're being murdered for their flesh, and most human beings don't think it's wrong. No other problem matters at the moment. The fact that PETA is so perversely misanthropic that they're the ones murdering an animal to keep it away from human "slavery", i.e., being a surrogate member of a human family albeit with limited rights...that makes me hate PETA almost more than I hate McDonald's.

[Joe Hillshoist]

So what do you lot think of mulesing?

[FourthBase]

Mulesing seems to be not much worse than circumcision, if done properly. The fact that PETA is paying any attention to mulesing when some of the lambs it's performed on will be murdered and eaten...that's obscene. There's a hierarchy of what needs to be stopped, and mulesing isn't even remotely fucking close to the top. If African slaves in the 1600's were being murdered and eaten wholesale by colonialists, what kind of abolitionist would spend any time protesting anything else? A retarded abolitionist, that's what kind.

[11:11]

There's an obvious and profound difference between vivisection/torture and what the retards at PETA define as "suffering". People already know that torturing animals is wrong.

I beg to differ. Lab torture goes on all over the world, and if people were so concerned about it, they wouldn't patronize the companies involved. And, medical "research", i.e., research welfare, is still a lie bought by most speciecentric humans.

There is absolutely nothing else PETA should be doing right now besides stopping people from eating meat.

Disagree. See above.

Animals aren't suffering too much -- if at all -- from being milked, egged, shaved, kept as pets, kept in zoos, etc.

Bullshit. It's called factory farming, and it's torture. As for zoos, it depends on what kind of zoo. Cages, or the big drive through preserves? BIG difference.

The problem is that they're being murdered for their flesh, and most human beings don't think it's wrong. No other problem matters at the moment.

I agree about flesh eating, but there are many, many other atrocities that our fellow earthlings suffer. ALL of those need stopping.

The fact that PETA is so perversely misanthropic that they're the ones murdering an animal to keep it away from human "slavery", i.e., being a surrogate member of a human family albeit with limited rights...that makes me hate PETA almost more than I hate McDonald's.

I know what you mean. They're a very strange lot.

I don't know what muesling is.

[FourthBase]

I beg to differ. Lab torture goes on all over the world, and if people were so concerned about it, they wouldn't patronize the companies involved.

If they know which companies were involved, and exactly what the companies were doing, then most people instantly cease using the products involved, and many of the companies cease their torturing. PETA has been fairly effective in that regard, I must admit. Still, the number of animals tortured in labs is a drop in an enormous bucket compared to the number of animals killed (and tortured) for meat.

And, medical "research", i.e., research welfare, is still a lie bought by most speciecentric humans.

Eh. I think it's clearly unnecessary in some cases. Others, not so sure.

Bullshit. It's called factory farming, and it's torture.

Yeah. I guess.

But PETA is opposed to milking cows and stealing eggs no matter how comfortable the animals are. And that is ludicrous. There's a difference between mistreating animals and exploiting them. Factories = mistreatment, sure. Milk, eggs, honey, wool = mere exploitation. There's nothing inherently wrong with exploiting, i.e., using a live animal. And even if there is, it's an abstract philosophical wrong, not an immediate abomination like torture or murder.

As for zoos, it depends on what kind of zoo. Cages, or the big drive through preserves? BIG difference.

As long as the cages are big enough and filled with enough stimulation for the animal, I don't really care. I think some activists get a little projection-happy when they decide how much and what kind of space is humane, based on how much they would want if they were the animals. If the animals seem content at all times, and don't consistently display obvious signs of discomfort, that should be the test of any circus or zoo.

I agree about flesh eating, but there are many, many other atrocities that our fellow earthlings suffer. ALL of those need stopping.

Murdering animals is the subconscious template for all human violence. At least other atrocities are recognized as atrocities. And in terms of sheer nightmarishness, you can't really top murdering a sentient being and eating its corpse. Well, you could torture it before you murder it...and that's also happening to animals in slaughterhouses. You could rape it, too, I guess? Funny enough, though: Most people are disgusted by the thought of, say, giving a pig a handjob...but they love eating a dismembered pig. If that's not psychotic, I don't know what is. Mass psychosis, celebrated and ritualized by the overwhelming majority of the world's cultures. Practiced knowingly by even the most "progressive" people. It's enough to make me not give a shit about the world, because I have a feeling things won't change for another 50 or 100 years. But...nah, I can't not give a shit. Still, it's beyond depressing.

I don't know what muesling is.

Basically a sheep farmer cuts off a square of skin around a sheep's ass so the sheep isn't infested by maggots in that area and eaten alive. They don't use painkillers, and I guess a lot of them in Australia don't perform the "surgery" early enough where the sheep would feel less pain and there'd be less to cut. Yeah, the horror. Gotta leave PETA's priorities.

[Joe Hillshoist]

I am one of those abhorrant humans that loves eating animal carcas. My wife is not yet 30 and has been vego for 20 years. I fully respect her and her reasons - which are don't kill animals. But I am not prepared to take that step yet. To tell the truth, plants are sentient too. So that narrows the list of consumable food (imo) to fungi (provided the mycelium isn't destroyed), most fruit, and green leaves off plants you don't uproot. Maybe some root crops if you do it right. in all cases tho cept maybe fruit and fungi the plant will probably feel something akin to pain. Milk and eggs are probably OK in that context, provided the eggs aren't fertilised.

None of this is scientific, but it is my opinion. Its my karma and I'll wear it but I have a grudging respect for people who can take that respect for life further than me.

Apart from that i agree with everything you guys say. I suspect the PETA vs mulesing thing might have political overtones too - or undercurrents. Wonder if there has been any funding for them by non Australian wool producers? I have seen flyblown sheep, its a horrible sight, but it must feel 1000 times worse for the sheep.

I dropped out of uni cos I was sick of the senseless killing, ie causing somethings death for simply learning purposes. It struck my how like the holocaust keeping critters in cages then killing them to illustrate how their nerves worked or some other thing, to students, was. And then the animals were disgarded, killed even if the experiment didn't actually hurt them or casue them any serious damage. not to mention the fact that they had no lives outside a cage...

Factory farming is evil. No doubt about it. But not all farming. The cows on the farm I live on have a great life. medical treatment (against ticks fluke and the like) Awesome food (not much grain feed, mostly pasture), fairly great climate. Beautiful place to live. If it was still a dairy i guess it would be the perfect place for a cow to live. I have even seen the old farmer crying after some cattle went off to the slaughterhouse, tho he would never admit that.

But PETA seem weird. HTF is killing a polar bear to keep it out of a zoo ethical. or killing pets for that matter. For that matter in so many ways how is life itself ethical?

I like South Park's take on PETA btw.

BTW Not all animal killing leads to atrocity (tho I suspect the casual attitude to meat, where it comes from and what happens and a lack of respect for the life you consume does), the Blackfella's have some awesome stories in that regard.

[Horatio Hellpop]

Fourth Base - I don't know how to say this but....you have the most consistent moral stance I've come across here. It's not that I follow your personal philosphy - cause I don't, but as far as I can see I can't fault you as a hypocrite.

.....Wait a minute maybe I could start an argument with you that male circumcision is a form of torture and mutilation????????