Harvard and the Making of The Unabomber

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Harvard and the Making of The Unabomber

Postby Crow » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:02 pm

This article includes many details about the mind-control research Kaczynski was subjected to during his years at Harvard.


Why were the students willing to endure this ongoing stress and probing into their private lives? Some who had assisted Murray in the experiment confessed to me that they wondered about this themselves. But they -- and we -- can only speculate that some of the students (including Kaczynski) did it for the money, that some (again, probably including Kaczynski) had doubts about their own psychic health and were seeking reassurance about it, that some, suffering from Harvard's well-known anomie, were lonely and needed someone to talk to, and that some simply had an interest in helping to advance scientific knowledge. But in truth we do not know. Alden E. Wessman, a former research associate of Murray's who has long been bothered by the unethical dimension of this study, said to me recently, "Later, I thought: 'We took and took and used them and what did we give them in return?'"

What was the purpose of the experiment? Keniston told me that he wasn't sure what the goals were. "Murray was not the most systematic scientist," he explained. Murray himself gave curiously equivocal answers. At times he suggested that his intent was merely to gather as much raw data as possible about one interpersonal event, which could then be used in different ways to help "develop a theory of dyadic systems." At other times he recalled the idealistic goal of acquiring knowledge that would lead to improving human personality development. At still other times his language seemed to suggest a continued interest in stressful interrogations. For example, Murray explained in his "Notes on Dyadic Research," dated March 16, 1959, that an ongoing goal of the research, which focused heavily on "degree of anxiety and disintegration," was to "design and evaluate instruments and procedures for the prediction of how each subject will react in the course of a stressful dyadic proceeding."

Sometimes Murray suggested that his research might have no value at all. "Cui bono?" he once asked. "As [the data] stand they are nothing but raw data, meaningless as such; and the question is what meaning, what intellectual news, can be extracted from them?" In another context he asked, "Are the costs in man-hours incurred by our elaborate, multiple procedures far greater than any possible gains in knowledge?"

Such equivocation prompts one to ask, Could the experiment have had a purpose that Murray was reluctant to divulge? Was the multiform-assessments project intended, at least in part, to help the CIA determine how to test, or break down, an individual's ability to withstand interrogation? The writer Alexander Cockburn has asked whether the students might have been given the hallucinogenic drug LSD without their knowledge, possibly at the request of the CIA.



http://www.steelhorsemag.com/harvard.htm
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Re: Harvard and the Making of The Unabomber

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:28 pm

Image


https://www.yahoo.com/gma/unabomber-ted ... &tsrc=twtr
Unabomber Ted Kaczynski found dead in prison cell

LUKE BARR and MEREDITH DELISO
Sat, June 10, 2023 at 1:35 PM EDT

Ted Kaczynski, the convicted terrorist known as the Unabomber, was found dead in his prison cell early Saturday, according to a Federal Bureau of Prisons spokesperson. He was 81.

Kaczynski was found unresponsive in his cell around 12:30 a.m. ET and transported to a local hospital where he was pronounced dead, according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons.

Kaczynski was previously in a maximum security facility in Colorado but was moved to a federal medical center in Butner, North Carolina, in December 2021 due to poor health.
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Re: Harvard and the Making of The Unabomber

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Jun 10, 2023 5:21 pm

Slothrop
@gnocchiwizard

the reveal that he was isolated in a cabin in montana had a big impact on the public imagination, sort of the creation of an archetype.
·
it was so anticlimactic. after so long they found him and he was just a guy. years later it started dribbling out that the government had experimented on him and while we still don't know the whole story, i do wonder what the impact would've been if that'd been public right away.

https://twitter.com/gnocchiwizard/statu ... 27840?s=20

Legalman
@UScrimeReview
·
Uncle Ted tried to warn us about the electronic prison they're building all around us. People call him a kook but they always leave out the fact he was the victim of the US govt's MK Ultra experiments for years in college and that is what "radicalized him". Now he's gone. RIP

https://twitter.com/UScrimeReview/statu ... 70976?s=20
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Re: Harvard and the Making of The Unabomber

Postby PufPuf93 » Mon Jun 12, 2023 12:52 pm

Belligerent Savant » Sat Jun 10, 2023 12:28 pm wrote:Image


https://www.yahoo.com/gma/unabomber-ted ... &tsrc=twtr
Unabomber Ted Kaczynski found dead in prison cell

LUKE BARR and MEREDITH DELISO
Sat, June 10, 2023 at 1:35 PM EDT

Ted Kaczynski, the convicted terrorist known as the Unabomber, was found dead in his prison cell early Saturday, according to a Federal Bureau of Prisons spokesperson. He was 81.

Kaczynski was found unresponsive in his cell around 12:30 a.m. ET and transported to a local hospital where he was pronounced dead, according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons.

Kaczynski was previously in a maximum security facility in Colorado but was moved to a federal medical center in Butner, North Carolina, in December 2021 due to poor health.


You are so fucked up in the head and heart.

Gil Murray was my friend for over 20 years. Gill was the TA in the first forestry class I took at Cal (UC Berkeley) 49 years ago.

Best thing ever did for myself in life was to get two degrees at Cal, one in 20s and other in early 30. My family was messed up right wing rural with interesting history and location. Father went to 8th grade.

The people that fucked up Kaczynski so bad were fucked up in the head and heart too.
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Re: Harvard and the Making of The Unabomber

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:04 pm

.
Who are you addressing when typing, "you are so fucked up in the head and heart"?

None or the content your're quoting above came from me, though that aside, there is ample evidence of the 'expert' and/or credentialed classes negatively and detrimentally impacting society, demonstrably, over the last several years in particular, so the spirit of Ted Kaczynski's quote resonates , though of course there are exceptions. I work with and am friends with 'university intellectuals', so there is a broad spectrum of personalities in that demo, a subset of which would also agree in varying degrees with the above quote by Ted.

You also typed,
"The people that fucked up Kaczynski so bad were fucked up in the head and heart too."

I don't believe anyone here would disagree with that.

But: who are these 'people' that fucked him up, in your view? What 'people' are you referring to in your comment?
Last edited by Belligerent Savant on Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Harvard and the Making of The Unabomber

Postby PufPuf93 » Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:07 pm

^^^^^^^^^^^

You.
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Re: Harvard and the Making of The Unabomber

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:09 pm

.
Please expound, if you can, on your comment. Cite specifics as to the merits of why you made this claim.
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Re: Harvard and the Making of The Unabomber

Postby Harvey » Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:48 pm

PufPuf93 » Mon Jun 12, 2023 5:52 pm wrote:
You are so fucked up in the head and heart.


Expain or don't, but I'm curious. What do think you mean by this? Making this judgement but unable to articulate it well enough so that any of us poor deluded fools, presumably equally as fucked up, might hope to understand what it is you feel merits it and why you are able to diagnose such malaise in us but wholly incapable of seeing what was right in front of your face for the last three years? How is one supposed to respond to this? With the kind of incuriosity we witnessed from our betters during the Covid lie?
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


Eden Ahbez
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Re: Harvard and the Making of The Unabomber

Postby PufPuf93 » Mon Jun 12, 2023 4:27 pm

Harvey » Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:48 am wrote:
PufPuf93 » Mon Jun 12, 2023 5:52 pm wrote:
You are so fucked up in the head and heart.


Expain or don't, but I'm curious. What do think you mean by this? Making this judgement but unable to articulate it well enough so that any of us poor deluded fools, presumably equally as fucked up, might hope to understand what it is you feel merits it and why you are able to diagnose such malaise in us but wholly incapable of seeing what was right in front of your face for the last three years? How is one supposed to respond to this? With the kind of incuriosity we witnessed from our betters during the Covid lie?


Look at the Ted K. meme.

One could interpret the meme as hero worship of a person who murdered my long term friend who was a good person.

The meme itself is anti-intellectual; and furthers lies, chaos, and division, destroying what is left of degraded institutions.
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Re: Harvard and the Making of The Unabomber

Postby Harvey » Mon Jun 12, 2023 5:11 pm

You're blaming all the wrong people. It's common today.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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Re: Harvard and the Making of The Unabomber

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:36 am

.
Indeed. Presumption and false equivalence, among other displays of faulty logic/reasoning.
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Re: Harvard and the Making of The Unabomber

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:52 am

Bolting on a bit to the content in the OP, the below link from CBS News (from 2010) include a few noteworthy comments regarding the Harvard program, which of course only scratch the surface.

Unabomber Decoded: Did Harvard Study Fuel Rage?

...

A brilliant student, Kaczynski moved up in school and was accepted to Harvard University at 16-years-old. At 17, author Alston Chase says Kaczynski signed up for a psychological experiment led by Dr. Henry Murray.

"He goes to Harvard," says Chase, "and his disappointments begin."

Murray was well known by the CIA and worked with the OSS during World War II training spies to withstand intense interrogations.

"He (Murray) went back to Harvard and got a series of grants," says Chase, "You could say that he was simply continuing on what he had done for the OSS.... at Harvard."

...

Chase says each student was brought into a room with bright lights… seated in a chair facing a one-way mirror. They had electrodes attached to their body, and the person they were supposed to debate turned out not to be an undergraduate.

"A law school student who had been prepped to tear into the student and to mock and ridicule their ideas and their values. To get them as angry as they possibly could," says Chase. "After they had done this film footage… they brought the students back… and showed them the film footage. Showed them being humiliated. They were rubbing salt into the wounds…"

...


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/unabomber- ... fuel-rage/
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