Which Crowd Do You Belong To?

[Doodad]

Sickman Fraud was virtually wrong on everything.

Thanks,

Telexx

LOL, well technically you are sort of correct. But I hope you aren't suggesting he made no contribution to the consideration of the human condition, liberating the debate of many taboo subjects. The man was a pioneer, and like many pioneers, wrong a lot of the time.

This however has no relation to my original premise that there is a " nexus of neurotic and spiritual/new age or whatever." Asked whether I was referring to death I pointed instead to Freud's discussion of religion. And while he may have a few things wrong in it it certainly looks like pretty sound advice to me. But then I'm an atheist. I believe that theres is, of course, something more to it all than meets the eye. Only a fool wouldn't. But trying to make sense of it from strictly the woo card is silly.

[theeKultleeder]

But trying to make sense of it from strictly the woo card is silly.

That is exactly what Freud was doing in commenting on phenomena he had no experience of.

The word "woo" is becoming dangerously arbitrary and empty of meaning. It shall serve, however, as a great emotional trigger.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

What is the fascination with perception not necessarily being an accurate reflection of surroundings?

Just because the brain can be confused or attempt to make over-reaching connections doesn't mean there isn't material around it creating stimuli. Or material WITHIN it creating stimuli.

If your software is slow or glitches or crashes do you say it or the computer hardware isn't really there unless the software is perfect?

Of course, I share the same 'fascination' but find it understandable, not a leaping off point for 'awe and wonder.'

My question, which a number of you grabbed onto without the following context, was referring to the idea, which I consider unfounded, that 'everything is just in your mind.' As if the mind, and the brain that is the principle location, for it didn't count as a physical thing reflecting physical electro-chemical processes.

When you understand neuro-biology- evolution-psychology, why resort to mysticism?
Not everything about perception is nailed down but more and more everyday and the path consistently underscores physical processes that don't require theology.

You can always ask a bigger question that isn't answered but that doesn't invalidate the ones already accrued.

[Doodad]

But trying to make sense of it from strictly the woo card is silly.

That is exactly what Freud was doing in commenting on phenomena he had no experience of.

The word "woo" is becoming dangerously arbitrary and empty of meaning. It shall serve, however, as a great emotional trigger.

Well I'll give you that to some extent except to say that one doesn't have to have had a broken leg to treat one.

On the subject of woo, you have a point as well. I, for example, have an open mind on a lot of woo but feel compelled to point out the BS even in the stuff I lean towards believing. Mostly I find if I don't "believe," anything I am usually right (for me at least.)

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

Don't believe anything they say.
And at the same time,
Don't believe that they say anything without a reason.
---Immanuel Kant

Great sig quote, PD. And welcome to the forum.
My sig quote is along the same lines on the defensive end.

This is just the kind of thing I'm pointing at. Don't assume there isn't a biological explanation for perceptions.

The admonition that the expression "woo" is being abused goes to the crux of the bisquit, definitions.

I've been saying that woo is falling down the slope of non-understanding to construct an unfounded explanation, mysticism.

Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Meaning, if you don't understand it, it has tremendous power over you and you will then tend to give up more power than is justified. This is precisely what I keep finding in the decades-long scientific deployment of psychological operations and the deploying of cults and religious memes to control people through their conditioned response to intellectually roll over onto their backs and gaze into the sky while perps soothingly rub their bellies. This tends to make people lose sight of what is on the ground.


This makes otherwise thinking people follow Falwell or Chopra or Bush.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

The word "woo" is becoming dangerously arbitrary and empty of meaning. It shall serve, however, as a great emotional trigger.

Nothing wrong with the word "woo" being an emotional trigger. That's what the words with the strongest meaning do, trigger associations that are colored with human values and emotions, the two being nearly synonymous.

I've reacted strongly against the way the word 'materialist' has been used as though it meant "inhuman, Nazi" or the opposite of warm fuzzy nice nice theology or faith.
As if humans weren't made of material.

Work on some definitions we might agree on.

[Pele'sDaughter]

Thanks for the welcome, Hugh. I do like your sig line.

This is just the kind of thing I'm pointing at. Don't assume there isn't a biological explanation for perceptions.

I posted about this on another thread. I learned about the biological explanation from this book:

http://www.redwingbooks.com/products/bo ... TeaPla.cfm

Ancient and indigenous peoples considered their knowledge of plant medicines to have come from the plants themselves. This heart-centered mode of perception can be exceptionally accurate and detailed in its information gathering if the heart's perceptive abilities are opened. The author explores this mode of perception through the work of numerous healers and researchers such as Luther Burbank, Henry David Thoreau, Masanobu Fukuoka, and Goethe, portraying the commonalities among these individuals in their approach to learning from the plant world. As Buhner outlines the specific steps involved in this method of learning, readers will gain the tools necessary to gather information directly from the heart of nature, to directly learn the medicinal uses of plants, to engage in diagnosis of disease, and to understand the implications of this deep connection.

The change from heart-based to brain-based perception has provided ample opportunity for predatory manipulation so that one might wonder if it was entirely accidental.

[Et in Arcadia ego]

Work on some definitions we might agree on.

ITS ALL ABOUT THE WOO WOO..

[H_C_E]

Then how about about "materialist" as meaning thinking there is a "rational" physical and explanable scientific reason for everything. I've never thought of it as meaning inhuman or Nazi-like. It always recalls a James Randi-like mentality to me. A need to have rational explanations for anything remotely "weird" or paranormal. The need to be able to account for those things that can't actual be readily accounted for by our current science. To my mind the materialist/reductionist set not only ignores all of the "spooky" implications of modern quantum theory, the unseating of Einstienian physics but is frequently guilty of an arrogance that the human mind and its science can account for everything.

The mere fact that the act of observation interferes with the behavior of a particle appears to tell us a great deal about how our act of observing "reality" affects the reality we believe we perceive. Anyone who has ever spent time working with psychedelics usually understands intuitively just how flexible, plastic and mutable "reality" is.

Doodad - I am being honest and not trying to nasty or unkind here, but I honestly thought you were about sixteen, maybe eighteen. Sorry if that hurts your feelings, that is not my intent.

HCE

[Doodad]

Doodad - I am being honest and not trying to nasty or unkind here, but I honestly thought you were about sixteen, maybe eighteen. Sorry if that hurts your feelings, that is not my intent.

HCE

No problem. I've mentioned before that my feelings don't enter into any of this. Interesting how wrong someone can be, n'est pas?

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

ITS ALL ABOUT THE WOO WOO..

Argh. People are putting whistlers in their car mufflers that go "whoo whoo."
Recreational noise pollution.

That clip showed how much people need to "message" even when they have nothing to say. Territorial graffiti comes in many forms. And it clutters and disables critical thinking which is needed to survive fascism.

And that's why I am such a purist about devoting personal 'air time' to the most needed information right now and not ruminating whether 'the universe is a hologram or figment of our imagination.'

Despite my username, which is still true, I'm rather curmudgeonly about pointing at Baghdad and New Orleans and saying "quit fooling around with your mind."
Not all thinking is useful anymore than is all reading.

[H_C_E]

You, me and every other human on the damn planet sooner or later. Usually sooner. You seem to think you're excluded though.

Have a good day.


HCE

[Doodad]

You, me and every other human on the damn planet sooner or later. Usually sooner. You seem to think you're excluded though.

Have a good day.


HCE

I thought I was allowed to make my own reality. WTF is going on here? Is it because I'm not Jewish?

[theeKultleeder]

The great thing is, without agreeing in fundamentals, I totally agree with HMW's mission. Him and I can work together on material targets and co-operate in a project of compassion without arguing about where or why that compassion exists.

I'm glad HCE brings up "reductionist" - that is what I have a problem with. "Materialism" is not exclusive of any other philosophy necessarily, but reductionism is, and as such, it's a dangerous fundamentalism. As dangerous as any other fundamentalism.

Humanists are a great lot, in my experience. And tolerant of multiple viewpoints, too.

[H_C_E]

Oy vey...


HCE