rigorousintuition.ca

Forget "melting points", forget "pentagon holes", forget "fake calls and fatty Osamas", or the ever popular meme of "hijackers alive".

Lost in the noise, 9/11 "truthers" or questioners of 9/11(of which I am)
have fallen for their own frankensteinish counter-counter legend...

when the truth of 9/11 was right in front of em months after the attacks.

The ever growing comical tale of the popular parroted truth meme(Bush, Cheney, fake planes, missiles, exotic weaponry, fake Osama, etc)
has had the intended effect of making even dyed in the wool "conspiracy researchers" and anti establishment liberals roll their eyes.

I say forget all that noise, there *is* something to 9/11 that's very hideous and troubling, and it has zilch to do with "physical anomalies".

The truth of 9/11 is that there are many layers, each layer obfuscating and protecting the layer beneath that, while muddying the waters enough...ultimately to the point people get frustrated and say "I'll just stick with the Osama story".

This article from october 2003, while very long, is so important.
It breaks down essentially the very dark secrets and origin of 9/11 in very provable real world terms.

How Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Israel were all used in 9/11, but in a way to where they could then be set up as second tier patsies underneath "al Qaeda".

How ISI *IS* the smoking gun. Because they were set up as the obvious fall guys as far back as 1999 when FBI informant Randy Glass heard ISI official RG Abbas say "those towers are coming down"

How the Phillipines Abu Sayyaf group lies at the formation of the core legend of the Yousef-WTC 1993-Khalid-9/11 official story, yet dovetails with Oklahoma 1995 and FBI/CIA operative Ali Mohammed(involved in the 1993 WTC attacks and 1998 African embassy attacks) It was Omar Saeed and Ali Mohammed who would create the modern hijacking techniques allegedly.

How Cheney, Rumsfeld and Perle are cutout patsies as well, just another layer of confusion hiding the real culprits.

How Omar Saaed was a British MI6 agent used to infiltrate ISI, as Mussaref has even said. How Mohammed Atta was most likely German intelligence or Mossad or handled by either. How others were handled by French intelligence. And of course KSM, handled by ISI by way of western globalists.

How Omar Saaed, John Oneil, KSM and Atta are the keys to the riddle.

The dark truth about Daniel Pearl's kidnapping.

I HIGHLY reccomend the following four articles:

the real provable exhaustively research truth of how 9/11 came to be and multi counter legends were weaved:
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/KUP310A.html

part 2, which is really part one from summer 2002 describing the full role of John Oneil, Atta(who both were at the same Spanish hotel in early 2001 for an anti terror summit oddly enough), and the setup of the patsy governments:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/KUP206A.html

Great article on the key fact of 9/11:
Khalid Mohammed was working for the ISI
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0303-05.htm

And finally, one of the key origins of Mohammed Atta...before he was doing drug running with CIA linked crime figures in Florida...
he was a protege of David Rockefeller's CDS program in Germany:
http://www.radiofreeamerika.com/Opinion ... TE%20U.htm
(Remember, the WTC Twin Towers came to be from the mind of David Rockefeller and the Bin Laden Group's star architect)

And if after all that, you're still hungry for more...

Evidence that Islamic millitants tied to 9/11 licence/passport scams
sabotaged the sprinkler systems in the WTC:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/Sakhe ... _9-11.html

Evidence that a government/al Qaeda front company sabotaged FAA computers on 9/11:
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... _pt1.shtml

And evidence that Zacharius Mousaoui and other hijackers were part of a
sting operation/surveilence program involving Nick Berg and the purchase of the Flight 93 tickets in Norman Oklahoma:
http://members.aol.com/mpwright9/sting.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2091676.stm

Evidence of Saudi involvement in controlling two of the hijackers
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature ... 08/graham/

Able Danger
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167130,00.html

and of course, the Israeli Mossad "involvement" in trailing/infiltrating/following/living next to the hijackers
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/cont ... ghijackers
and the "white van Mossad teams" in NYC on 9/11
http://infowars.net/articles/april2007/230407vans.htm

THESE, not the David Ray Griffin red herrings, are the prima facie smoking gun of something "not quite right" with the official story.

You factor in the Sibel Edmonds ATC angle, Hopsicker and Peter Dale Scott's research, NORAD phantom blips, etc and there's quite the tale to weave that has ZILCH to do with thermate or missiles.

**Post Script**

I've begun to ponder if real life mind control brainwashing/manchurian techniques were used on the hijackers themselves. I say this, because this fascinating 2004 PBS Front Line documentary called "al Qaeda's new front" shows some of the mk ultra like tape loop techniques used on would be suicide bombers:
(got to video 3)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... ront/view/

Could Atta have been a mk ultra type?

I believe a lot of these "mass shootings" in America are the result of triggered mk ultra like events(DC Sniper perhaps?)
There was the strange coincidences of men with the last name of Ferguson going on shooting rampages...the last one, days before 9/11, shut down
operations temporarily for one of the security companies involved in Logan/JFK security(the other company was an Israeli owned firm)

8bitagent, I can relate to how excited you feel, reading the Kupferberg articles for the first time. I felt the same back in 2004, when I first read them. I was seduced by the sheer number of fascinating facts, facts that he doesn't document or provide sources for, in most cases, but which I was generally able to corroborate.

Of course, my reaction, after meticulously reading the articles, was to ask, "who IS Chaim Kupferberg?".

The answer seems to be: nobody. There is no information on any other works by "Chaim Kupferberg", nor any biographical background at all, no affiliation to any academic or other institutions. The articles appeared out of nowhere sometime in 2004, and immediately spread like wildfire throughout the internet, reprinted on thousands of sites within days.

This ubiquity alone made me suspicious, so I went over the articles again, to see if I could figure out this mysterious person's agenda.

Interestingly enough, although his writing style is dry as heck, chock-a-block full of data that he crams into each paragraph (not very scholarly, though, as he provides no sources), this little bit here stood out as a rather transparent use of propaganda and emotional blackmail:

In short, Loftus was propagandizing his audience toward a highly selective reading of 9/11. Gone were the ominous shadows of BCCI and Iran-Contra, casting their pall over the credibility of those powerful politicians feeding us their take on a new world order. More than anyone (this writer included), Loftus should have been able to detect a high-level disinformation campaign to set up "the Jews" and "the Zionists" as the main evil conspirators behind 9/11. Yet ironically, here was Loftus casting his lot in with those very neo-conservatives who will one day serve as the showcase exhibits for what is sure to be the latest entry in an updated blood libel. From the Crucifixion, to the Rothschilds, and on to the Twin Towers, the Jews were being set up once more to play their historical role as punch toys to smokescreen a powerful oligarchy.

ExCUSE me? This reminds me of Rumsfeld's famous quote (you know, the one where he insists that Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction that represented a major threat to the security of the United States): "The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence", only in this case, Kupferberg seems to be implying that any evidence of Israeli complicity in 9-11 is actually evidence of a global Nazi conspiracy against "the Jews".

Yes, yes, it's getting really old, that one. But believe it or not, there are still people who fall for it and are bullied into pretending there's no gorilla in their living-room. Maybe "Kupferberg" was hoping that this sharp little needle wouldn't be so obvious in his haystack-like articles.



metaphor overdose...

8bitagent wrote:THESE, not the David Ray Griffin red herrings, are the prima facie smoking gun of something "not quite right" with the official story.

I've begun to ponder if real life mind control brainwashing/manchurian techniques were used on the hijackers themselves.
...
Could Atta have been a mk ultra type?

Your post is scattershot, anecdotal, and dismisses the HARDEST EVIDENCE of what happened on 9/11 while you embrace the second level of cover, LIHOP, while dismissing the proof of MIHOP.

Laws of Physics and physical evidence plus hundreds of firefighter eyewitnesses PROVE that the WTC was blown up.

Newton's law Conservation of Momentum proves the WTC can't come down that fast without being blown up and the photos and debris pattern also prove this.

Hundreds of architect, engineering, and aeronotical professionals concur.
Many pilots and even some air traffic controllers deny that those planes could've been all hijacked and flown by humans!

NOTHING proves their were any hijackers in the first place.
NOTHING proves anyone named Atta was involved.

And David Ray Griffin has presented consistently rational logical empirical evidence that the cover story is false from beginning to end.

But you are scattering all that to the winds like stomping in puddle and creating spray with nothing left but damp shoes to walk away in.

I think you just fell to 2bitagent.

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:
Your post is scattershot, anecdotal, and dismisses the HARDEST EVIDENCE of what happened on 9/11 while you embrace the second level of cover, LIHOP, while dismissing the proof of MIHOP.

I don't think it will surprise you, Hugh, that I completely disagree. I think 8bitagent, and Chaim Kupferberg, are on the best-sourced track to uncovering what really went down.

Alice, I don't think there's any reason to suspect Kupferberg because there's little biographical data. Most of us who write online appear to only exist in our online writing. I also don't think he's whitewashing Israel. He acknowledges an Israeli nexus to deep politics and the possible involvement of its criminalized intelligence assets. What he's pointing out is the fallacious reduction of 9/11 to an Israeli job. (As he also points out re a "Saudi job," or a "Pakistani job.")

I also believe this reductionism has been encouraged by covert elements which mean to align the 9/11 movement with antisemitism and Holocaust denial, and they've had a great deal of success in recent years. There are some points of congruity to the floating of the "Oswald was a Soviet spy" cover story after the assassination, which admitted a cover-up for reasons of national security, just not the actual one.

Also, glad to see you posting again.

AlicetheKurious wrote:8bitagent, I can relate to how excited you feel, reading the Kupferberg articles for the first time. I felt the same back in 2004, when I first read them. I was seduced by the sheer number of fascinating facts, facts that he doesn't document or provide sources for, in most cases, but which I was generally able to corroborate.

Of course, my reaction, after meticulously reading the articles, was to ask, "who IS Chaim Kupferberg?".

The answer seems to be: nobody. There is no information on any other works by "Chaim Kupferberg", nor any biographical background at all, no affiliation to any academic or other institutions. The articles appeared out of nowhere sometime in 2004, and immediately spread like wildfire throughout the internet, reprinted on thousands of sites within days.

This ubiquity alone made me suspicious, so I went over the articles again, to see if I could figure out this mysterious person's agenda.

Interestingly enough, although his writing style is dry as heck, chock-a-block full of data that he crams into each paragraph (not very scholarly, though, as he provides no sources), this little bit here stood out as a rather transparent use of propaganda and emotional blackmail:

ExCUSE me? This reminds me of Rumsfeld's famous quote (you know, the one where he insists that Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction that represented a major threat to the security of the United States): "The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence", only in this case, Kupferberg seems to be implying that any evidence of Israeli complicity in 9-11 is actually evidence of a global Nazi conspiracy against "the Jews".

Yes, yes, it's getting really old, that one. But believe it or not, there are still people who fall for it and are bullied into pretending there's no gorilla in their living-room. Maybe "Kupferberg" was hoping that this sharp little needle wouldn't be so obvious in his haystack-like articles.



metaphor overdose...

Aw, but here's the thing. I have poured through The 9/11 commission, Paul Thompson's the Terror Timeline, Ghost Wars, Nafeez Ahmed's The War On Truth, Sander Hick's The Big Wedding, Peter Lance's Tripple Cross, countless articles, obscure mainstream reports, etc.

As far as I can disseminate, the bulk of what he's getting at checks out.

We ALL come from our own biases. So of course he adds his own "Israel is just a scapegoat" caveat.

I myself can show that there was a team of at least 8 Israeli Mossad white vans acting as a second layer in FL, NYC, and NJ the morning of 9/11.
I definately believe theres deep complicity of Israel.
The crippling of backdoor government communications by Israeli and Saudi linked companies.

Heck the FIRST victim of 9/11 was an elite anti hijacking commando/co-owner of advanced technology firms named Daniel Lewin, allegedly shot on Flight 11.

Like I said, we all put a bias or spin on things, the writer doesnt pretend theres no deep Israeli involvement...Hell
while I do believe 19 hijackers hijacked four planes and slammed them into the towers, pentagon and got taken over by passengers...
I believe theres a strong occult/Fortean element to 9/11. But again, thats just my own spin on things.

I see it as perfect: the clear use of elements of Israel means that anyone who takes notice of the "big elephant in the room" is deemed anti Semetic or crazy. Yes, he misses that point...but I think you and I both get that.

This article is exciting(as exciting as it can be...9/11 depresses me to think about how its been used to kill tens of thousands of Arabs) because for the first time that Ive seen, it shows to me the most likely plausible scenario by which the crimes of sept 11th came out.

If you include this clip from Press For Truth, where an ISI official from 1999 is talking about a plan to "bring down the towers",
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0ek8JFEjsUc
a lot of things come together.

Now that said, I do think there's something interesting how where the planes hit the towers and pentagon, respectively. But as far as provable networks, etc I think these are some solid articles.

Jeff wrote:

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:
Your post is scattershot, anecdotal, and dismisses the HARDEST EVIDENCE of what happened on 9/11 while you embrace the second level of cover, LIHOP, while dismissing the proof of MIHOP.

I don't think it will surprise you, Hugh, that I completely disagree. I think 8bitagent, and Chaim Kupferberg, are on the best-sourced track to uncovering what really went down.

Alice, I don't think there's any reason to suspect Kupferberg because there's little biographical data. Most of us who write online appear to only exist in our online writing. I also don't think he's whitewashing Israel. He acknowledges an Israeli nexus to deep politics and the possible involvement of its criminalized intelligence assets. What he's pointing out is the fallacious reduction of 9/11 to an Israeli job. (As he also points out re a "Saudi job," or a "Pakistani job.")

I also believe this reductionism has been encouraged by covert elements which mean to align the 9/11 movement with antisemitism and Holocaust denial, and they've had a great deal of success in recent years. There are some points of congruity to the floating of the "Oswald was a Soviet spy" cover story after the assassination, which admitted a cover-up for reasons of national security, just not the actual one.

Also, glad to see you posting again.

Well I don't mean to step on people's toes...I'm just a little perplexed
why 9/11 researchers switched gears a couple years back to say
"well, theres no evidence of any hijackers, any Arabs...all just the good ol boy Pentagon network, fake planes, missiles, Bush and Cheney"

Im like "huh?" By throwing out the Arab involvement, you throw out the very nexus by which Islamic terror has been a useful globalist proxy tool under the guise of US allied Arab state sponsorship. Like how Pakistan is ALWAYS the go to guys for conduiting out post 9/11 "al Qaeda" cells.
Nafeez Ahmed wrote some amazing articles detailing the use of al Qaeda elements in Azerbaijan in 1991-1993 and against Serbs in the mid to late 90's in former Yugoslavia, as well as against Iran by way of the CIA and ISI.

I myself try to stear clear of the simplistic al Qaeda is CIA, because I think thats a misnomer. The majority of the CIA and FBI is convinced there is a legitimate al Qeada threat. The villagers of Baluchi and Warzaristan are convinced of al Qaeda. All the meanwhile its kind of like rats in a big maze...the rats don't know that doors in the maze are being left open. They think "oh, ISI is helping us, we got friends in high places".
When in reality, there entire course has been deliberate set, so all they have to do is physically press the trigger and run around like idiots.

What happened with JFK? All the focus was put on the head shot and grassy knoll. Then underneath that there was the Mafia/Cuba did it patsy layer. It's almost too bizarre how that same template has been used
with 9/11. And again, thats not to say Oswald was innocent...often times "patsys" are all too eager and willing patsies, such as the case of KSM, Atta, Omar and the 19 hijackers.

I think there's a deliberate reason why even the most well paid official investigators dared not try to ascertain what Mohammed Atta was doing pre summer 2001 in America, and why he went to Vegas...Portland Maine and what he was doing on his off time in Florida when he wasnt "flight training". It's in his final days in Florida then to Portland that reveal
almost as much as her Carl Duizberg/Hamberg/early 2000 American "hey Im hear to learn to fly crop dusters...for Osama" days.
Atta was there to make a lot of loud noise while flailing his arms up and down, right under the watchful eye of Mossad, Able Danger, the FBI, etc.

Jeff wrote:

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:
Your post is scattershot, anecdotal, and dismisses the HARDEST EVIDENCE of what happened on 9/11 while you embrace the second level of cover, LIHOP, while dismissing the proof of MIHOP.

I don't think it will surprise you, Hugh, that I completely disagree. I think 8bitagent, and Chaim Kupferberg, are on the best-sourced track to uncovering what really went down.

Alice, I don't think there's any reason to suspect Kupferberg because there's little biographical data. Most of us who write online appear to only exist in our online writing. I also don't think he's whitewashing Israel. He acknowledges an Israeli nexus to deep politics and the possible involvement of its criminalized intelligence assets. What he's pointing out is the fallacious reduction of 9/11 to an Israeli job. (As he also points out re a "Saudi job," or a "Pakistani job.")

I also believe this reductionism has been encouraged by covert elements which mean to align the 9/11 movement with antisemitism and Holocaust denial, and they've had a great deal of success in recent years. There are some points of congruity to the floating of the "Oswald was a Soviet spy" cover story after the assassination, which admitted a cover-up for reasons of national security, just not the actual one.

Also, glad to see you posting again.

Agreed. Now if I was Hugh, I would point out how movies and tv have conditioned us to the fact that the complex world of intelligence and its ways of doing business in that milieu will mean that we never get all the info we want from them nor should we both for security reasons and because of their enormous screwups.

8bitagent said...

I definately believe theres deep complicity of Israel.
The crippling of backdoor government communications by Israeli and Saudi linked companies.

Heck the FIRST victim of 9/11 was an elite anti hijacking commando/co-owner of advanced technology firms named Daniel Lewin, allegedly shot on Flight 11.

I'm not sure how you are connecting your dots here 8bitagent. You seem to be using the reported assassination of Daniel Lewin on Flight 11 as evidence in support of Israeli involvement in the attacks on 9/11. To me, this points to the likelihood that there was at least one very significant group of Israelis possibly tracking Atta or his accomplices on Flight 11 or even attempting to thwart the attacks.

For those who don't know, Lewin was a member of Israeli military intelligence.

Lewin was born in Denver, Colorado and raised in Jerusalem, where he served for four years in the Israel Defence Forces. He was an officer in Sayeret Matkal, an elite and secretive intelligence unit.

URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_M._Lewin

Another noteworthy individual that I suspect was not only associated with Israeli intelligence but working from an angle most of us who post here would appreciate, is the late Nicholas Berg. As I've mentioned before, the release of the video of his beheading during the week of the Abu Ghraib scandal coming to a head in the MSM was the event that turned my world upside down and eventually led me here.

Though I don't deny that there may have been one or more groups of Israelis with some level of complicity in the 9/11 attacks, even if their actions were only to establish Israeli involvement in a way to provide a scapegoat to the US agents if the first version of the official narrative collapsed, that should not be construed as broad based support for the attacks among Israeli intelligence professionals, much less the Israeli government.

I would like to see your evidence for the eight vans of Mossad agents, however.

You later say...

By throwing out the Arab involvement, you throw out the very nexus by which Islamic terror has been a useful globalist proxy tool under the guise of US allied Arab state sponsorship.

I'm 100% on board with you here.

The following quote is from Hugh Manatee Wins in the John Loftus Vs. 9/11 "Theories" thread. Knowing what I do of cops and soldiers, who are likely cut from a similar cloth as at least the lower level spooks, I have a feeling that this is a pretty insightful statement. And, it is something to bear in mind both when sourcing information from intel types, both working and retired, as well as interpreting their role in various events.

[Loftus] just may illustrate a problem with looking to intel culture to validate the truth of the 9/11 Inside Job. I think spooks are too committed to the idea that they aren't all that bad to admit just how wrong the cover-up of the Inside Job really is.

Because it would invalidate their entire secretive controlling culture by showing the ultimate end result of its abuse, a world of horrors spinning out of control based on a lie.

And spooks think the justification for secret elite culture is to prevent exactly that!

URL (currently): http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewt ... a8f6857e9c

8bitagent wrote:I myself try to stear clear of the simplistic al Qaeda is CIA, because I think thats a misnomer. The majority of the CIA and FBI is convinced there is a legitimate al Qeada threat. The villagers of Baluchi and Warzaristan are convinced of al Qaeda. All the meanwhile its kind of like rats in a big maze...the rats don't know that doors in the maze are being left open. They think "oh, ISI is helping us, we got friends in high places".
When in reality, there entire course has been deliberate set, so all they have to do is physically press the trigger and run around like idiots.

You mean like the "Israel done it gambit" ? Or that Bush/ the neocons done it

Rule Brittania, Tavistock institute rule the waves,
Britain, never never never shall be slaved.

"till we have built Jerusalem on Englands green and pleasant land"

Get the Jordan Maxwell books out.

Read Anti aristos posts.

Iroquois wrote:For those who don't know, Lewin was a member of Israeli military intelligence.

Quote:
Lewin was born in Denver, Colorado and raised in Jerusalem, where he served for four years in the Israel Defence Forces. He was an officer in Sayeret Matkal, an elite and secretive intelligence unit.

URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_M._Lewin

Another noteworthy individual that I suspect was not only associated with Israeli intelligence but working from an angle most of us who post here would appreciate, is the late Nicholas Berg. As I've mentioned before, the release of the video of his beheading during the week of the Abu Ghraib scandal coming to a head in the MSM was the event that turned my world upside down and eventually led me here.

Though I don't deny that there may have been one or more groups of Israelis with some level of complicity in the 9/11 attacks, even if their actions were only to establish Israeli involvement in a way to provide a scapegoat to the US agents if the first version of the official narrative collapsed, that should not be construed as broad based support for the attacks among Israeli intelligence professionals, much less the Israeli government.

I would like to see your evidence for the eight vans of Mossad agents, however.

You later say...
Quote:
By throwing out the Arab involvement, you throw out the very nexus by which Islamic terror has been a useful globalist proxy tool under the guise of US allied Arab state sponsorship.


I'm 100% on board with you here.

PLEASE forgive me here.

When bringing up Lewin, I in no means meant he was in on it.

Ive long believed there was a dual purpose of Israeli spies in America.

One, to cripple security and set a seperate ledge.

The other, that genuinely stumbled upon this ghastly 9/11 plot.

My exhaustive research shows Nick Berg was an FBI or Mossad informant
trying to find out more about the Moussaoui/9-11 hijacker cell in Oklahoma.

He may have purchased the tickets for 93 at the OKU library as part of a sting op.

He ends up killed in a grizzly al Qaeda webcam snuff flick in an act that shocks the world...allegedly by the same guys he had met a few years prior.

The hijackers on Flight 11 KNEW they had to shoot Lewin first. Evidence from Time Magazine and MSNBC show knives were preplanted on the four flights, and guns may have been used.

As far as Mossad white vans, this article(as much as people may hate AJ's site) has good mainstream reports and police reports of white vans of "Arab" looking men. Some called police to say "Palestinians" were driving in explosive laden white vans. Some were filming the attacks as they happened, some were allgedly planting explosives on the GW bridge, some were trying to "interview" Bush in Florida. One van may have exploded. One had a mural of the WTC with a plane flying into it.

http://infowars.net/articles/april2007/230407vans.htm
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/cont ... veisraelis

theres endless mainstream proof of Israeli spies living next to and following the hijackers, maybe these were the good guys in the Mossad?

And yes, I do believe that contrary to pop truther culture legend, al Qaeda and Islamic terror DOES exist, and is real...but its a useful tool of the global elites...a thesis antithesis synthesis paradigm.

On the apparent surface, these terror groups are proxies of the ISI, Saudi intel and Dubai officials as well as Sudan.

slimmouse wrote:

8bitagent wrote:I myself try to stear clear of the simplistic al Qaeda is CIA, because I think thats a misnomer. The majority of the CIA and FBI is convinced there is a legitimate al Qeada threat. The villagers of Baluchi and Warzaristan are convinced of al Qaeda. All the meanwhile its kind of like rats in a big maze...the rats don't know that doors in the maze are being left open. They think "oh, ISI is helping us, we got friends in high places".
When in reality, there entire course has been deliberate set, so all they have to do is physically press the trigger and run around like idiots.

You mean like the "Israel done it gambit" ? Or that Bush/ the neocons done it

Rule Brittania, Tavistock institute rule the waves,
Britain, never never never shall be slaved.

"till we have built Jerusalem on Englands green and pleasant land"

Get the Jordan Maxwell books out.

Read Anti aristos posts.

Well given most tourist city "al Qaeda" terror ops are a mix of London mosques visa vi Pakistani trained millitants...

you may be onto something with England.

Before Shayler went nuts, he was exposing MI6 use of al Qaeda to try and kill Khadagi in 1994.

And as intel spook Loftus is, I think theres something to Haroon Aswat masterminding 7/7 for MI6.

The elites of England in a way had a hand in the shaping of America, and who knows...maybe the elites of the European side of the NWO still play the US like a fool.

The UK sure got the US to jump to their tune in Iran in 1953 and Indonesia in 1965.

And its been shown Omar Saaed was an MI6 operative.

Iroquois wrote:The following quote is from Hugh Manatee Wins in the John Loftus Vs. 9/11 "Theories" thread. Knowing what I do of cops and soldiers, who are likely cut from a similar cloth as at least the lower level spooks, I have a feeling that this is a pretty insightful statement. And, it is something to bear in mind both when sourcing information from intel types, both working and retired, as well as interpreting their role in various events.

[Loftus] just may illustrate a problem with looking to intel culture to validate the truth of the 9/11 Inside Job. I think spooks are too committed to the idea that they aren't all that bad to admit just how wrong the cover-up of the Inside Job really is.

Because it would invalidate their entire secretive controlling culture by showing the ultimate end result of its abuse, a world of horrors spinning out of control based on a lie.

And spooks think the justification for secret elite culture is to prevent exactly that!

...

Thanks for noticing, Iroquois, I thought that was insightful, too. lol.

I'm shocked by people saying that the WTC demolition eliminates all that other spooky badness. That's like Douglas Rushkoff or George Monbiot or Norman Solomon claiming that 9/11 truth "distracts from real problems."

The physical realities of how 9/11 was pulled off from the inside IN NO WAY eliminates the complicated web of drugs, intel agencies, triple agents, etc.

But there is NO evidence of there actually being hijackers.
Perhaps the model of Oswald's innocence of shooting JFK while being enmeshed as perhaps a double agent to prevent it or do other infiltrations only to become the patsy is the most instructive model.

The characters cited, like Atta, may have been used to create both the first level of cover, "terrorists!" and the second level of cover, "spooks!" but still not be the third level where the physical evidence points, a rogue cabal of US intel-Pentagon-contractors taking advantage of a NORAD excercise and having conveniently already set up a trail of Evil Arabs Who Hate America to hide behind.

Perhaps a larger group of false-flag complicity of only LIHOP plane hijacking was under way, or, like OKCity, was being watched and allowed to carry on... but the rogue cabal cleverly took it a step further to MIHOP with controlled demolition which nobody else expected and which was now even better insulated by the LIHOP people who all have a vested interest in supporting the first level of cover story, Evil Arabs Who Hate America.

So oil, drugs, and triple agents all remain on the table. They just CAN'T be blamed for hijacking planes....because there is no evidence whatsoever that hijackers were on those planes or even had to be for what happened.

Possibly any people who might've seemed to be hijackers were actors playing their part in NORAD's live fly excercise only to find out...the play was the real thing and something else was now flying them to their deaths as patsies.

It seems something like that happened with the 7/7 London tube bombings where an excercise was going on and the last of the four guys with backpacks was last seen scrambling to see what was in his pack after the other bombs had gone off.
He was too late, according to witnesses. So those four might've been hired to play act for a security excercise and ended up the eliminated patsies.

MI6 has done precisely that to a soldier they had infiltrate the IRA only to then arrest their own mole as...a terrorist.

Mom always said, "don't mug, you're face might stay that way."

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:So oil, drugs, and triple agents all remain on the table. They just CAN'T be blamed for hijacking planes....because there is no evidence whatsoever that hijackers were on those planes or even had to be for what happened.

So the cell/airphone calls and Atta's speaking to FAA were all fake?

I do believe flight 11, 175, and 93 were on autopilot at some point, with coordinances typed in to fly directly to where they did...or perhaps meeting the signal of beacons placed in Fuji and Marsh and Mcleanan, respectively.

But no hijackers? Im not buying that

And if "controlled demolition" is so obvious, how has the government been able to make all the world's engineers and scientists save for a few be convinced the top gave way by way of the planes?

8bitagent wrote:So the cell/airphone calls and Atta's speaking to FAA were all fake?

No need for them to be real. And there are real technical issues with successfully making and sustaining cellphone calls from planes.

I do believe flight 11, 175, and 93 were on autopilot at some point, with coordinances typed in to fly directly to where they did...or perhaps meeting the signal of beacons placed in Fuji and Marsh and Mcleanan, respectively.

But no hijackers? Im not buying that

You just contradicted yourself. Auto and beacons plus hijackers? Why don't you "buy it?" Were they in the sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository? lol.

Even the FBI admits that bin Laden is not a suspect for 9/11 due to no hard evidence.
Ouch. Right outloud they say this. Hmm...

And if "controlled demolition" is so obvious, how has the government been able to make all the world's engineers and scientists save for a few be convinced the top gave way by way of the planes?

They haven't "been able to make all the world's" etc.
Here's a very new professional organization-

http://www.ae911truth.org/

Welcome to Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth!

180 architectural and engineering professionals
and 464 other supporters including A/E students
have joined us in demanding of Congress
a truly independent investigation.

Many simply haven't bothered to look past the cover story at the facts in the first place since the shock and cover story and new war 'facts on the ground' keep the intellectual agenda.

Those that do run into the first level of deflection, the snow job from government shills at NIST and college profs working with the gov't like Manuel Garcia.

It took a while for some of the herd that doesn't expect to be lied to to look up and say "Wait a minute. This is a slaughterhouse we are being led to, not a grassy field."

I can provide mainstream links that show some of the hijackers bought GPS positioning systems, some Islamic extremists had all sorts of WTC pass access under the guise of "sprinkler fixers"(look where the plane hit on the WTC tower 2), and its possible the hijackers handlers told them coordinates to punch in.

Again, I dont believe "al Qaeda" or Muslim extremists orchestrated or came up with the 9/11 plot, Im just saying it follows reason to see how Islamic terrorists are used.

Are we really to think that when Atta says "we have some planes", when the cell/aircalls etc describe hijackers with guns and knives...thats all what, voice spoof software?

Do you believe the real flight 11, 77, 93 and 175 were used, or millitary drones?

Yes, the surface story of four hijacked planes flying into the towers/pentagon/taken down by passengers on many levels is true.

Its clear Flight 93 was a messup in the plans, regardless whose plans those were.

They found charred ID, passports, etc in the pentagon and shanksville debris along with stuff from the passengers.

Am I the only one here who poured over the Moussaoui trial exhibits?
Its hard to imagine everything in that case exhibit photographed was planted or faked. Thats a LOT of people that would have to be in on it.