How the Counterculture Ushered in Fascism

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How the Counterculture Ushered in Fascism

Postby Uncle $cam » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:27 am

'Industrial Music' and Futurism

Snip:

To make the point more clear, let's look at an example of this. Prior to the 1970s, the term industrial referred to something having to do with productive labor. Industry referred to a trade, or the way in which mankind was able to harness its power over nature. It was connected to a productive process. That changed, in a specific way, through the 1970s. “Industrial” became a genre of “music,” or perhaps anti-music. It became something to consume. Moreover, it was something arbitrary to consume.




'Where Pain Became Entertainment'

Snip:

Industrial music culture was an attempt to reintroduce the same philosophy in England and the United States in the 1970s, after the economic shift was made. Timothy Leary, the Harvard professor who worked with Aldous Huxley to distribute psychedelic drugs, especially LSD, on college campuses, also worked with, and lived with, Neil Megson,3 otherwise known as Genesis P-Orridge, the founder of Industrial Records and industrial music.

Megson formed a “performance art” group called Coum Transmissions in the late 1960s. This group was comprised of Megson, a stripper named Christine Newby, who took the name Cosey Fanni Tutti (a take on a Mozart opera), and Peter Christopherson, nicknamed “Sleazy.” With the addition of Chris Carter, they became Throbbing Gristle—a slang term in Yorkshire for an erection—on Sept. 3, 1975, the anniversary of Britain's entry into World War II. Throughout the '70s, this group of people consistently pushed the limits of what was acceptable, and by doing this, transformed the standard of what is considered art to an ever more degraded notion. According to Megson, “We were interested in taboos, what the boundaries were, where the sound became noise and where noise became music and where entertainment became pain, and where pain became entertainment. All the contradictions of culture.”

The group was catalyzing an acceleration of the process of the degeneration of society. At the start of their careers they were receiving many grants from arts councils, including the British Arts Council, to enable them to work and participate in exhibitions. And the term exhibition is all too ironically appropriate. Megson called the group an embodiment of the “secret fears and neuroses” of society. He continued:

So many people repress or dismiss large areas of themselves that they find it easier to dismiss Coum, but, like dismissed and suppressed emotions and desires, Coum is never totally forgotten.... Sex is sensual, delirium, escape, key to magick, joy, excitement.... We expand ourselves to boundaries, even destroying, condemning ourselves to forms of madness and isolation, to damnation in evil forms.... We need each other, hate each other, hate is nothing.... We want people to be themselves, and the price of that is to abandon thee [sic] false ideas one has of oneself.... Coum explore their ideas and obsessions and live them out where possible.



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Postby 8bitagent » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:37 am

As someone whose been involved in the "industrial music" scene big time for 13 years, I can tell ya that industrial has more to do with German electronic dance music than flirting with fascist imagery and cheesey s and m stuff.

Actually, a lot of industrial music seems to be very much anti war, and and anti nwo.

What youre talking about is experimental music, of which industrial used to be. And yeah, those guys were some pretty weird guys.
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Postby Uncle $cam » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:38 am

How the Counterculture Ushered in Fascism
http://www.gnosticliberationfront.com/w ... e_club.htm

Assemblage 23: Cocoon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McG0ABtb2a0
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Postby 8bitagent » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:05 am

Uncle $cam wrote:How the Counterculture Ushered in Fascism
http://www.gnosticliberationfront.com/w ... e_club.htm


Again, this article is talking about experimental/obscure noise bands who have always cloaked themselves in esoteric occult themes and psuedo fascism.

Im reminded how many "countercultures" eventually dont really make a stand against authority.

Like Marilyn Manson. Tried to be mr anti establishment, anti Christian. But his promotion of Satanism is precisely what the elites are into.

Or how in the 60's, the anti war peace groups of youth eventually got cointelpro'd by Rockefeller groups to be ineffective.

But yeah, Genesis P Orridge, Boyd Rice, Douglas Pierce, etc...these are
artists that are definately troubled, heh
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:43 am

Well reading that was a waste of time.

How to write off an article in 7 words;

Don't listen to techno, Join Larouche Youth.
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Postby yathrib » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:59 am

Did you check out the originating site? Bizarre, to say the least.

http://www.gnosticliberationfront.com/
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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:32 am

heh..

I'm one of those 'experimental/obscure noise' artists and I can tell you this is a major insult to what I do. I know dozens of unique artists around the world and none of them come even remotely close to good old conservative republican ideologies and justifications for the whacked out things they do.

Most of these people, like me, had whatever shred of conventional 'faith' they possessed ripped from them and passed through the meat grinder of 'industrial'-based society, and are largely atheists or agnostics. There is no high-weirdness or satanic bullshit to be found; only disillusionment.

Also, I knew Marlyn Manson quite well at the beginning of his career and did some of his tattoo work. He had a chance to make a difference of sorts when we realized that his act was going to be received as the Alice Cooper of the 90's. Instead of choosing his listeners and pushing for awareness, he chose himself in instead, and few people from his original circle have any respect for him at all and haven't for many years. Despite this, at least at the start he was virulently anti-establishment.

Until the checks started coming in, anyways..

:roll:

That's one of the reasons I've never charged for any of my own material. Having some shitheads like these people point a finger in my general direction is a reward of its own.
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Postby Jeff » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:38 am

yathrib wrote:Did you check out the originating site? Bizarre, to say the least.

http://www.gnosticliberationfront.com/


I'll say more than that.

Frankly, I'd rather not see their mystical fascist, "third-way" Jew-baiting bullshit posted here.

I stumbled upon it yesterday and was reading their Beyond Left and Right" page, which champions "left Nazis" like Otto Strasser and American fascists like Francis Parker Yockey.

When it comes to this "beyond Left and Right," Red/Brown alliance that we see reflected in Ron Paul's camp, I'm a divider, not a uniter.
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Postby IanEye » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:44 am

In terms of the “tone” of this thread, I would recommend RI readers listen to any of the following:

Coil:
Love’s Secret Domain
Time Machines
Queens of the Circulating Library
Musick To Play In The Dark V.1

CTI [Chris Carter]:
EAR3 [uses original Throbbing Gristle rhythm tracks as a platform and takes off from there]

Psychic TV:
Live in Thee East Village

The Kooky Scientist [Fred Giannelli]:
Kook Kontrol

!!!Special bonus album!!!
Current93: In Menstrual Night

All of the above artists “get” Fascism, but I wouldn’t say they embrace it necessarily…..


Also worth checking out is the book "Wreckers of Civilisation"
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Postby yathrib » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:49 am

You're preaching to the choir in my case. But I understand why you might not want to have hits on that place from your site. I just wanted ppl to know where it was coming from. Nazism is not and will never be cool, no matter how "openminded" people like Jeff Rense get.

Jeff wrote:[

I'll say more than that.

Frankly, I'd rather not see their mystical fascist, "third-way" Jew-baiting bullshit posted here.

I stumbled upon it yesterday and was reading their Beyond Left and Right" page, which champions "left Nazis" like Otto Strasser and American fascists like Francis Parker Yockey.

When it comes to this "beyond Left and Right," Red/Brown alliance that we see reflected in Ron Paul's camp, I'm a divider, not a uniter.
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Postby Jeff » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:16 pm

yathrib wrote:You're preaching to the choir in my case. But I understand why you might not want to have hits on that place from your site. I just wanted ppl to know where it was coming from. Nazism is not and will never be cool, no matter how "openminded" people like Jeff Rense get.


I know. It's just I think there's a lot of naivite on the left, middle and moderate right - particularly within "conspiracy" circles - about "unity" that's exploited by some very ugly, far-right elements. It shouldn't take much time on that site, browsing their books and links, for anyone to recognize their agenda, regardless of their "anti-globalist" buzzwords.
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Postby John E. Nemo » Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:10 pm

There is definitely some Nazi fetishism within the electro/industrial scene.

I still can't believe that the members of the bands Warsaw/Joy Division/New Order got away with using names so closely related to Nazism.

One need only look at bands like Death in June and Boyd Rice's work to see lots of Nazi imagery, such as Totenkopfs.

(BTW, I'm not posting any imagery or links. Google them yourself, as I don't want to support fascism or sh*te music, in any way.)

Throbbing Gristle's lil lightning bolt logo looks ALOT like the SS lightning bolts. So much so, in fact, that one of the members, when imprisoned, was thought to be a member of the Aryan Brotherhood, and was left alone.

Nitzer Ebb's music always sounded to me like an industrial aerobics soundtrack for Brownshirts, and they also flirt wth a lot of fascist imagery and sounds.

If you watch the video for Ministry's "Stigmata", you can see Nazi skinheads "sieg heiling" the band all throughout the video.
I know some of the guys from Ministry and asked one of them why this was so, to which he replied that he was "so strung out when they filmed the video, he never even noticed it."
I called BS on that.
But...what do you expect from a bunch of junkies with a love of Crowley?

Killing Joke was the band that disappointed me the most.
They started out doing some pretty decent music and then became Luciferian nutbars.
Maybe the stress of seeing Kurt Cobain ripoff their song "80s" for Nirvana's "Come As You Are" was too much for them.
Some of the imagery they use now looks kinda fascist, but they used pics of the Pope blessing Nazis early on to show they were anti-fascist, so I'm giving them a break.
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Postby orz » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:00 pm

Well, I read the title of that article, stopped at "LaRouche Youth:" :)

If the slightly ambiguous use of Nazi-ish imagery by TG etc still has the power to shock/confuse, then I think some people on this board would just about explode if they listened to (or read about) [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitehouse_(band)"]Whitehouse[/url], let alone any number of the 1000s of truely obscure noise/power electronics acts operating today...

I don't worry at all about what very little genuine neo-nazi sentiment is to be found in the industrial/noise scene. This music is about as far from mass appeal as is possible, highly unlikely to gain many followers for anyone's far-right cause. If anything it will isolate them from the mainstream even further.


The article's title reminded me of 'Suicide Club' aka Suicide Circle, a very strange and somewhat disturbing Japanese film which many on this board would find much of interest in, one way or another. Definitely "triggering" whatever that even means. There's all sorts of mind control and secret messages via pop culture etc.




Grr this board can't do wikipedia links! if there are brackets it breaks the tag... :(
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Postby Uncle $cam » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:02 pm

I'll say more than that.

Frankly, I'd rather not see their mystical fascist, "third-way" Jew-baiting bullshit posted here.

I stumbled upon it yesterday and was reading their Beyond Left and Right" page, which champions "left Nazis" like Otto Strasser and American fascists like Francis Parker Yockey.

When it comes to this "beyond Left and Right," Red/Brown alliance that we see reflected in Ron Paul's camp, I'm a divider, not a uniter.



Gosh Jeff, this is the second time you have said something to that effect on something I have posted. It certainly was not my intent to post anything near ""third-way" Jew-baiting bullshit" here. I merely thought it an interesting read and wasn't sure I understood it's thesis and further, was hoping to see a discussion about it, because admittedly after reading it I didn't really understand it's point, so lazily perhaps, I brought it here to see what the bright minds on this board had to say about it. I certainly hadn't thought of the consequences of having, 'hit's from this board', --actually that never even occurred to me-- show up there.

To be completely honest, if I read something and can't understand where it's coming from I often repost it somewhere to see what other have to say about it. Selfish perhaps, but truthful.

I apologize. Again it was never my intention to offend anyone, and I respect you and most here far more than to do that. I will think twice before posting again, I think you will find, if you look at my past comments and posts I am far from an pusher of any type of dehumanizing behavior or ideology. Hell, I'm survivor of sexual and dehumanizing abuse within my own family, as I suspect many are, --whether they know it or not--not to mention a soul sick American culture.
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Punk or Disney?

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:14 pm

Jeff wrote:When it comes to this "beyond Left and Right," Red/Brown alliance that we see reflected in Ron Paul's camp, I'm a divider, not a uniter.


Right on.

There's a UTexas prof who has written two books claiming that Disney "ushered in the counterculture." :P

From Walt to Woodstock: How Disney Created the Counterculture
Image

http://www.amazon.com/Walt-Woodstock-Disney-Created-Counterculture/dp/0292702736/ref=pd_sim_b_4/002-9905503-0107258

Multiculturalism and the Mouse: Race and Sex in Disney Entertainment
http://www.amazon.com/Multiculturalism-Mouse-Race-Disney-Entertainment/dp/0292709609

Image

This is counterpropaganda meant to hide Disney's long relationship with the Pentagon planting military recruiting memes.

Oh, and guess who owns the label that the Insane Clown Posse spewed from?
Disney. A journalist called Disney's Michael Eisner "Insane Clown Michael" in his expose book I've linked to below.

[url]http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9405EFDB1331F934A15755C0A961958260&n
=Top%2fNews%2fBusiness%2fCompanies%2fDisney%2c%20Walt%2c%20Company
[/url]
DISNEY RECALLS AN OBSCENITY-LACED ALBUM FROM STORES

Published: June 27, 1997

The Walt Disney Company recalled an estimated 100,000 copies of a new obscenity-laced hip-hop album from store shelves this week, days after Southern Baptists began a morality boycott against the company. Disney officials said the album, Insane Clown Posse's ''The Great Milenko,'' slipped through the company's review system and had nothing to do with the boycott. The recall, which is expected to cost Disney more than $1 million, is virtually unheard of in the record business. No Disney record label has ever recalled an album before.


An expose on Disney written by Carl Hiaasen makes a good case for Disney's Insane Clown Posse album recall being planned in advance as a culture war tactic.
Highly recommended book. If you know that Disney is CIA for Kids! then the whole book makes tremendous sense and provides much evidence of spookery.

Team Rodent : How Disney Devours the World
http://www.amazon.com/Team-Rodent-Disney-Devours-World/dp/0345422805

In Team Rodent: How Disney Devours the World, Hiaasen paints a witty and sarcastic portrait in this nonfiction account of a company who can control the press, manipulate local governments, and because it's Disney, get away with it.
Last edited by Hugh Manatee Wins on Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
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