How the Counterculture Ushered in Fascism

Moderators: DrVolin, 82_28, Elvis, Jeff

Postby Truth4Youth » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:15 pm

Jeff wrote:
yathrib wrote:You're preaching to the choir in my case. But I understand why you might not want to have hits on that place from your site. I just wanted ppl to know where it was coming from. Nazism is not and will never be cool, no matter how "openminded" people like Jeff Rense get.


I know. It's just I think there's a lot of naivite on the left, middle and moderate right - particularly within "conspiracy" circles - about "unity" that's exploited by some very ugly, far-right elements. It shouldn't take much time on that site, browsing their books and links, for anyone to recognize their agenda, regardless of their "anti-globalist" buzzwords.


What do you think of Kenn Thomas? He's about the only person on the more progressive side of parapolitical research that doesn't always pull the "far right are all evil Nazis", and he actually let's them have their word as far as I know (he worked w/ militia-type GJ Krupey if I'm correct). And I've met him, he doesn't like everything those guys say.

I'm also curious as to why everything that the far right does is a conspiracy in the eyes of so many RI'ers. I actually have contact with someone you'd all call "far right", he's a man by the name of Mark Glenn. He's said stuff that I disagree with- he's not fond of Judaism and certainly doesn't have kind things to say about the Talmud. Now most people here will take that as evidence he is part of a conspiracy to wipe Jewish people off the the planet. Why is that nobody here ever comes to this conclusion:

Some people are simply misguided!

Ever heard the saying, "Good intentions pave the road to hell"?

Also showing a disadain for Judaism is different than wanting to kill Jews. Personally, I have nothing wrong with Judaism, but some people do. I disagree with them, but I don't immediately assume they are out to kill Jewish people. Actually some of them seem to sympathize with Jews believe it or not (I've learned this from actually speaking with them, but it's interesting to note that this has also been said of Ezra Pound if memory serves me correct) and feel that Jewish people are forced to assimilate into a certain culture (whether they are right on this I don't know). But it really doesn't matter what I say becuase all those "far right" people are part of the Nazi conspiracy anyway and nothing I say will make you believe otherwise because YOU guys KNOW that they want to kill Jewish people.

As I said I don't hate Jewish people or Judaism, and I'm actually a bit more progressive than conservative. I'm just trying to say- Live and let live guys!
User avatar
Truth4Youth
 
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:27 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:47 pm

et in Arcadia ego wrote:heh..

I'm one of those 'experimental/obscure noise' artists and I can tell you this is a major insult to what I do. I know dozens of unique artists around the world and none of them come even remotely close to good old conservative republican ideologies and justifications for the whacked out things they do.


Same here, tho I'd consider myself more industrial dance ala Skinny Puppy. A lot of my themes are more anti government/anti war/anti globalization.
Heck I even have a new harsh industrial song Im working on talking about the Satanic elite of America, the nwo and 9/11.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12065
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Truth4Youth » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:49 pm

8bitagent wrote:
et in Arcadia ego wrote:heh..

I'm one of those 'experimental/obscure noise' artists and I can tell you this is a major insult to what I do. I know dozens of unique artists around the world and none of them come even remotely close to good old conservative republican ideologies and justifications for the whacked out things they do.


Same here, tho I'd consider myself more industrial dance ala Skinny Puppy. A lot of my themes are more anti government/anti war/anti globalization.
Heck I even have a new harsh industrial song Im working on talking about the Satanic elite of America, the nwo and 9/11.


An industrial band in that same vein is coming to mind... oh what was it...

MINISTRY?

They just released there knew CD. Is that Bush as a reptilian there?
User avatar
Truth4Youth
 
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:27 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:52 pm

Jeff wrote:
yathrib wrote:You're preaching to the choir in my case. But I understand why you might not want to have hits on that place from your site. I just wanted ppl to know where it was coming from. Nazism is not and will never be cool, no matter how "openminded" people like Jeff Rense get.


I know. It's just I think there's a lot of naivite on the left, middle and moderate right - particularly within "conspiracy" circles - about "unity" that's exploited by some very ugly, far-right elements. It shouldn't take much time on that site, browsing their books and links, for anyone to recognize their agenda, regardless of their "anti-globalist" buzzwords.


While its true that elements of the Neo Nazi, Jew hating crowd have latched onto 9/11 truth and "conspiracy" political activism to supplant the "evil Jews ruling the world" meme, the overwhelming majority of modern day "conspiracy theorists" are political activists of both the liberal and conservative molds that are against the harm of globalization, the crimes of both Israel and the Arab and Western governments, anti war, and anti human rights violations.

So yes, just because David Duke or Luis Farrakhan "questions 9/11" doesnt mean I say "oh hey, look whose on my side!"

The neo Nazis are strange...they like the post 9/11 world because they can bash Muslims and Arabs with impunity

but then others like Duke, side with the Arab extremist world to bash the Jews.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12065
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Truth4Youth » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:56 pm

8bitagent wrote:but then others like Duke, side with the Arab extremist world to bash the Jews.


Yeah, neo-nazis do seem to be having sex with a very different kind of beast these days.
User avatar
Truth4Youth
 
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:27 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:56 pm

John E. Nemo wrote:There is definitely some Nazi fetishism within the electro/industrial scene.

I still can't believe that the members of the bands Warsaw/Joy Division/New Order got away with using names so closely related to Nazism.

One need only look at bands like Death in June and Boyd Rice's work to see lots of Nazi imagery, such as Totenkopfs.

(BTW, I'm not posting any imagery or links. Google them yourself, as I don't want to support fascism or sh*te music, in any way.)

Throbbing Gristle's lil lightning bolt logo looks ALOT like the SS lightning bolts. So much so, in fact, that one of the members, when imprisoned, was thought to be a member of the Aryan Brotherhood, and was left alone.

Nitzer Ebb's music always sounded to me like an industrial aerobics soundtrack for Brownshirts, and they also flirt wth a lot of fascist imagery and sounds.

If you watch the video for Ministry's "Stigmata", you can see Nazi skinheads "sieg heiling" the band all throughout the video.
I know some of the guys from Ministry and asked one of them why this was so, to which he replied that he was "so strung out when they filmed the video, he never even noticed it."
I called BS on that.
But...what do you expect from a bunch of junkies with a love of Crowley?

Killing Joke was the band that disappointed me the most.
They started out doing some pretty decent music and then became Luciferian nutbars.
Maybe the stress of seeing Kurt Cobain ripoff their song "80s" for Nirvana's "Come As You Are" was too much for them.
Some of the imagery they use now looks kinda fascist, but they used pics of the Pope blessing Nazis early on to show they were anti-fascist, so I'm giving them a break.


Ministry has devoted the last three albums to exposing the neocons, 9/11, the wars, and the powers that be...and thats not including his famous "NWO" song of 1992. So I seriously doubt Ministry are fascists.

Both punk and early industrial embraced fascist imagery for "shock" value in the art sense, but yes it does appear that some of the early adopters of modern experimental noise embraced fascism and crap like the "process church" a little too much.

So its a strange line.

Bands like Skinny Puppy, Ministry, KMFDM, Suicide Commando, etc have made a modern career of devoting whole albums to opposing the Nazi like powers that be and war, but...their predecessors seemed to almost embrace it.

I NEVER understood why it was "hip" for youth to embrace Satanism.
The powers that be are very big into that sort of thing.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12065
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Punk or Disney?

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:01 pm

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Highly recommended book. If you know that Disney is CIA for Kids! then the whole book makes tremendous sense and provides much evidence of spookery.

Team Rodent : How Disney Devours the World
http://www.amazon.com/Team-Rodent-Disney-Devours-World/dp/0345422805

In Team Rodent: How Disney Devours the World, Hiaasen paints a witty and sarcastic portrait in this nonfiction account of a company who can control the press, manipulate local governments, and because it's Disney, get away with it.


Heh, and I bet none of those get into Disney and Monarch programming or occult stuff:)

Image

Are Disney films part of occult mind control programming?
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/ha ... inept1.htm

NY Times: Disneyland, Skull and Bones and secret societies
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/0 ... isneyland/

Orange county register: Walt and Mickey the masons
"Mickey the Mason"
http://www.ocweekly.com/food/feature-re ... son/21187/

Tunnels underneath Disneyland used to sexually torture children:
http://tracyrtwyman.com/blog/?page_id=83
http://www.illuminati-news.com/walt-disney-agenda.htm
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12065
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Punk Neo-nazis

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:07 pm

yathrib wrote:It seems that the (nazi) skinhead scene evolved pretty organically out of the punk scene in a number of places. I was marginally involved in the early 1980s punk scene in college. By that, I mean that many of my friends and more-than-friends were more deeply involved, and I went to shows and got as punked out as possible without permanently (like the next morning) altering my appearance. It wasn't long before many of the (mostly) younger and (always) stupider among us started affecting swastikas and other Nazi iconography. At first it was a fashion statement and a way to shock one's parents in a hurry, but it wasn't long before they began to express hatred of different social and ethnic groups. As Nemo notes, many of these people were hardly pure Aryans themselves, and actually most of the hatred and violence was directed toward gays. Also, anyone who got in their way while drunk. My boyfriend, for example (a bassist) had his left arm shattered when these goons pushed him off a wall out of (I guess) scientific curiosity. One of the most terrifying individuals in this "movement" was actually a black female. Seriously.


It is a strange history.

I just saw a film called "This Is England" that showed how even the Jamaican-English 69-70's working class "skinheads" can get caught up in fascism...even black skinheads. Its utterly strange.

There were a lot of cases of bigoted skinheads that were gay.
Ive seen a number of interesting punk/skinhead documentaries about all that stuff.

But neo Nazi skins have to realize how silly it is, that they are a mix of black and english solidarity(spirit of 69) and laugable George Lincoln Rockwell clownery.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12065
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:10 pm

Truth4Youth wrote:
8bitagent wrote:
et in Arcadia ego wrote:heh..

I'm one of those 'experimental/obscure noise' artists and I can tell you this is a major insult to what I do. I know dozens of unique artists around the world and none of them come even remotely close to good old conservative republican ideologies and justifications for the whacked out things they do.


Same here, tho I'd consider myself more industrial dance ala Skinny Puppy. A lot of my themes are more anti government/anti war/anti globalization.
Heck I even have a new harsh industrial song Im working on talking about the Satanic elite of America, the nwo and 9/11.


An industrial band in that same vein is coming to mind... oh what was it...

MINISTRY?

They just released there knew CD. Is that Bush as a reptilian there?


Who also have a new album out, again...focused on the "new world order".

Ministry even made an MTV video for their song called "Lies Lies Lies" all about exposing 9/11.

Bush as a reptillian? Is that that Icke stuff? I see Bush as a possible compartmentalized sex trauma mind control multiple, and someone I kind of feel sorry for rather than hate.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12065
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Truth4Youth » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:24 pm

8bitagent wrote:
Truth4Youth wrote:
8bitagent wrote:
et in Arcadia ego wrote:heh..

I'm one of those 'experimental/obscure noise' artists and I can tell you this is a major insult to what I do. I know dozens of unique artists around the world and none of them come even remotely close to good old conservative republican ideologies and justifications for the whacked out things they do.


Same here, tho I'd consider myself more industrial dance ala Skinny Puppy. A lot of my themes are more anti government/anti war/anti globalization.
Heck I even have a new harsh industrial song Im working on talking about the Satanic elite of America, the nwo and 9/11.


An industrial band in that same vein is coming to mind... oh what was it...

MINISTRY?

They just released there knew CD. Is that Bush as a reptilian there?


Who also have a new album out, again...focused on the "new world order".

Ministry even made an MTV video for their song called "Lies Lies Lies" all about exposing 9/11.

Bush as a reptillian? Is that that Icke stuff? I see Bush as a possible compartmentalized sex trauma mind control multiple, and someone I kind of feel sorry for rather than hate.


Yeah, I saw the cover of the new Ministry CD and it looks like their portarying Bush as Icke would.
User avatar
Truth4Youth
 
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:27 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:26 pm

Holy crap...you're right!

Image
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12065
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: disinfo about Disney's role in National Security.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:09 pm

8bitagent wrote:Heh, and I bet none of those get into Disney and Monarch programming or occult stuff:)

Are Disney films part of occult mind control programming?
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/ha ... inept1.htm

NY Times: Disneyland, Skull and Bones and secret societies
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/0 ... isneyland/

Orange county register: Walt and Mickey the masons
"Mickey the Mason"
http://www.ocweekly.com/food/feature-re ... son/21187/

Tunnels underneath Disneyland used to sexually torture children:
http://tracyrtwyman.com/blog/?page_id=83
http://www.illuminati-news.com/walt-disney-agenda.htm


Did you read those, 8bitagent? ECH.I read these links.
I need a shower after reading this stuff. AVOID THOSE LINKS.

All those links are either disinformation or a little commerce, but almost completely disinformation.

In case I see them again I'll be sure and remind folks that the Disney-Pentagon connection which began as overt propaganda in WWII and continued as covert subtle social engineering of gender identity for military recruting afterwards... is being obscured with piles of "Illuminati" dreck and woo.

Dreck and woo are not cartoon characters. They are internet characters I see constantly.
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
User avatar
Hugh Manatee Wins
 
Posts: 9869
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:51 pm
Location: in context
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby 8bitagent » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:36 am

Well Hugh I have to say, you brought up an interesting point...


about the skull and bones imagery becoming EVERYWHERE in the youth culture a few years ago around the time S&B was in the mainstream. S&B is both woo and political. And its weird, that emblem is literally everywhere with anyone under 25.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12065
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby yathrib » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:54 am

You would think so, but there are so many psychotic antisemites out there who make it pretty much impossible to discuss Jews and Judaism with the same sort of equanimity and objectivity one could apply to other groups or beliefs. Look at how almost any fair minded discussion of the Mideast eventually degenerates into Jew-listing or someone dragging out the Protocols. Ironically, a lot of the Muslim bashing on the part of neocons and others seems almost like a parody of this, an antisemitism for philosemites.

Anyway, I think it is a good bet that the individuals you refer to probably wouldn't mind seeing the Jews depart this plane of existence by any means available or necessary. Talmudic/rabbinic Judaism is absolutely no more enlightened than any other One God/One Book religion, but antisemites themselves are the ones responsible for the fact that any objective discussion of it sounds like, and probably is, a manifestation of antisemitism.


Truth4Youth wrote:[Also showing a disadain for Judaism is different than wanting to kill Jews. Personally, I have nothing wrong with Judaism, but some people do. I disagree with them, but I don't immediately assume they are out to kill Jewish people. Actually some of them seem to sympathize with Jews believe it or not (I've learned this from actually speaking with them, but it's interesting to note that this has also been said of Ezra Pound if memory serves me correct) and feel that Jewish people are forced to assimilate into a certain culture (whether they are right on this I don't know). But it really doesn't matter what I say becuase all those "far right" people are part of the Nazi conspiracy anyway and nothing I say will make you believe otherwise because YOU guys KNOW that they want to kill Jewish people.

As I said I don't hate Jewish people or Judaism, and I'm actually a bit more progressive than conservative. I'm just trying to say- Live and let live guys!
yathrib
 
Posts: 1876
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Jeff » Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:11 am

Truth4Youth wrote:
I'm also curious as to why everything that the far right does is a conspiracy in the eyes of so many RI'ers. I actually have contact with someone you'd all call "far right", he's a man by the name of Mark Glenn. He's said stuff that I disagree with- he's not fond of Judaism and certainly doesn't have kind things to say about the Talmud. Now most people here will take that as evidence he is part of a conspiracy to wipe Jewish people off the the planet. Why is that nobody here ever comes to this conclusion:

Some people are simply misguided!


I think I've stated that a number of times. The problem and the question I see is that the misguided are being guided by someone, for some reason - why?

By the way, to say Mark Glenn is "not fond of Judaism" is rather an understatement:

"JUDAISM, the cancer that is eating the body away and left it a skeletonized hull of what it once was. JUDAISM, the root of all mankind’s present evils.... Get rid of it. It is a cancer. Cut it out and throw it away, as Jesus instructed that we do. It has never and will never be of any benefit to mankind. We cannot live in any kind of ‘peaceful co-existence’ with it. It is a declaration of war, and as long as it exists out there, mankind will never have peace."

Now most people here will take that as evidence he is part of a conspiracy to wipe Jewish people off the the planet.


He's not part of a "conspiracy," but he's quite upfront about what he'd like to see happen.


I'm just trying to say- Live and let live guys!


With militant racists, anti-semites and neo-Nazis? We're not playing for the same team.
User avatar
Jeff
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11133
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 8:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests