Alex Jones and Scientology?

[compared2what?]

Has the possibility of this connection ever been discussed on these forums?

I see reasonable grounds to ask the question, but can't find anyplace asking it that doesn't basically use the same data for proof that they used for hypothesis.

Or that mentions that the link (if there is one) puts him one degree of separation away from NEIL BUSH.

The concise linkage is: Alex Jones promotes Dr. John Breeding, whose book quotes L. Ron, and whose organization, Texans for Safe Education is (as far as I can tell) a dba of Parents for Label and Drug Free Education, aka ablechild.org, which links to, among others CCHR and H.E.L.P. -- as well as the Doc Breedings site and to Ignite!, the company Silverado Neil started in order to sell insanely expensive, intelligence-insulting educational aids. (Which kind of stands out on the links page -- all the others are either nonprofit or individual anti-meds advocates, or obviously compatible with them.)

I raise this now mainly because I was under the impression that Breeding's ties to CoS were that he had written for Freedom Magazine, received an award from a Scientology affiliate, etc., since that's what's been previously reported. It was only after seeing the reference to TSFE as an ablechild.org affiliate, and not finding any sign of TSFE as a freestanding entity that it occurred to me that he himself might be a front, rather than merely a friend with a common cause.

If the link is illusory because there's no separation, rather than because there's no connection -- and either could be the case -- what, if any, do y'all think are the implications for Jones?

The only quasi-supporting evidence I know of is that he has a site named "Prison Planet." But while it's true that it's an L. Ron phrase, and doctrinally so fundamental that if there were a Scientological equivalent to the Nicene Creed, it would probably include the sentence, "I believe that earth is a prison planet".....Well. It's not such a unique and original metaphor that it mightn't be coincidence.

FWIW, around 1994, there was a D.C.-based CoS PR officer named Alex Jones, who was the church's voice during the bickering that ensued when they threw White Supremacist/Holocaust denier Willis Carto (and former friend of CoS) under the bus after regaining exempt status.

But it's a common name, and I don't know what the Austin-based Alex Jones was doing then, or what the D.C.-based Alex Jones is doing now. Plus, if Wikipedia is correct, Bullhorn Alex would only have been about twenty years old at the time that Holocaust-denier-denying Alex was floating across the public record as it's preserved online today.

He certainly doesn't look a day under 34.

Thoughts?

[elfismiles]

Interesting C2W. I doubt it. But interesting ...

Links to Dr. John Breeding vids:

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=%22Dr.+John+Breeding%22

I really like a lot of what he's been saying and doing...

Dr. John Breeding, Ph.D. Psychologist testifies before the Austin City Council about Electroshock Therapy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5LIVAaYNrQ

Dr. Breeding is part of the Coalition for the Abolition of Electroshock Therapy.

The recent 5th annual Roky Erickson Psychedelic Ice Cream Social celebrated psychiatric survivors of ECT. At this concert people signed a petition to present to the Austin City Council requesting a moratorium for ECT in the City of Austin.

Many of psychiatry's practices such as lobotomy and insulin shock have been virtually eliminated due to their barbaric natures. ECT is still used however.

Visit Doctor Breeding's website at

http://www.endofshock.com

[FourthBase]

If a cult campaigned to stop puppy torture because they felt animal control officers were the ultimate source of the world's evil, I guess I would still have to agree with their stance on puppy torture?

I don't think Breeding and "Prison Planet" are enough to seriously suspect Jones as a Scientologist, and I'm the equivalent of Joseph McCarthy when it comes to Scientology. There's also his appearance in "Waking Life"...a movie with some good stuff but it also gives me a creepy inexplicable CoS vibe sometimes.

[theeKultleeder]

I find this hypocritical, since I have been accused of being a cultist for disclosing I know something a little about scientology and I am sympathetic to the freezone.

I hope we've "cleared" that up, though.

I think it's safe to say that the reason scientology is such a successful cult (and I don't mean numbers) is because it is a lie wrapped in some powerful truths.

Like the prison planet thing.

If we look at this without any undue sympathies for Jones, the link between Jones and scientology is just as strong as the link between Paul and Stormfront. Perhaps stronger.

[FourthBase]

Definitely cleared that up, and I understand how you feel, although forgive me for holding onto a speck of uncertainty there, especially if you write things that I perceive as positive about anything involving Scientology's tenets or techniques. I just can't help myself, I'm stubborn. Sorry.

If we look at this without any undue sympathies for Jones, the link between Jones and scientology is just as strong as the link between Paul and Stormfront. Perhaps stronger.

Well, okay...but these are questions that have been asked on the board before, "Why the fuck would Alex Jones be pimping a Scientology culthead on his website?" and "Isn't it weird that the name of his site is a major part of Scientology's language?" Didn't get a satisfactory answer, if I remember. I think somewhere in the Entertainment Monopoly thread, I even noted there seemed to be a connection between Scientology and research about the evils of mind control, and wondered aloud if maybe a larger-than-we-realize chunk of the conspiracy website network was produced or connected in some way to the CoS. So...maybe Jones should be seriously suspected? I don't know. There's always this:

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board/search.php

[compared2what?]

I apologize for the troll-like follow-up on my own post, but...I forgot to include the background that makes the Ignite! link interesting. Because I'm scatterbrained. And it raises a whole other question about how Poppy and Barbara take care of their boys. To wit:

Neil was travelling around with Rev. Moon not so long ago, and, per Businessweek, a Moon-linked foundation ponied up $1 million for Ignite! not long afterward. The Bush family is so Moon'd up in general, that initially seems like business as usual. But...I wonder how deep (or wide) this kind of association really goes for that generation of the Bush family specifically, as well as for their crypto-aristocratic-dynasty contemporaries in general. They may well be simply another source of money for nothing, among many others. But...after Silverado, Neil got hustled off to Europe under the auspices of longtime Bush Personal Evangelist, Doug Wead, who was a major player for Amway/Quixtar, which pretty much uses the exact same playbook that CoS and Moon do, albeit not every chapter. Wead was also W's BF(-not-)F prior to the 2000 campaign. And there are at least two W associates from Texas Air National Guard days with apparent ties to equivalent organizations and/or activities. Not to mention whatever conditioning did or didn't go down at Skull and Bones, or during the sobriety-inducing Born-Again-ness. With the exception (or question mark) of the pre-2000 Wead buddyship, these unions tend to occur at high-stress or transitional points -- in the wake of an ugly divorce, in the case of Ignite! It's not a lot, but as far as it goes, it is kinda cult.

In rebuttal of myself, Jeb's associations with cult-like groups aren't any more elaborate than what you'd expect for the ex-Governor of a state in which both Scientology and the Kabbalah Centre have a major presence, or at least not to my knowledge. He did declare that August 8th would henceforth be Betty Sembler Day a couple of years ago, but I'm pretty sure Straight, Inc. was out of the picture by the time Jeb was in it. And Marvin, to me, is like the Tito of the Bush boys, if not the LaToya. So I don't know enough about him to know what potential thought-reformers he might or might not have encountered.

But for Neil and our 43rd President, I do wonder whose playing who. Same goes double for 41, during the later part of his time in the White House.

It's unusual enough to see such open proximity between a CoS interest and an Imperial-family interest that I might wonder if there's a story behind it even without the above context. With it, I definitely do, and in more ways than one -- for example, you'd think Rev. Moon might be a little miffed, if only because, as a rule, Messiahs don't like to share.

I mean, I have always imagined (literally) that Scientology and the Unification Church run moles into one another's various interests, just because it would be so out of character if they didn't. And I'd love to know what mental shape the moles end up in, if they do. But outside of that and joining every other scary organization on earth that has a front group under the umbrella of the Council for National Policy, they're pretty much the last two institutions I'd expect to find on the same playground.

[compared2what?]

And thanks everyone for feedback! I was too busy typing further drivel when it was coming in to see it, or would have opened on that above.

I agree that the link to Jones isn't much, if that wasn't clear. I was just trying to ask if anyone had anything further, or if it had been discussed, which -- apparently -- it has.

Humbly yours,

[cptmarginal]

If we look at this without any undue sympathies for Jones, the link between Jones and scientology is just as strong as the link between Paul and Stormfront. Perhaps stronger.

That really seems to be stretching it. Where's the Alex Jones Xenu Bulletin, or anything comparable? Let alone multiple of them!

I don't think I have much of a bias for or against either of these people - this statement just seems to be an exaggeration.

[compared2what?]

If we look at this without any undue sympathies for Jones, the link between Jones and scientology is just as strong as the link between Paul and Stormfront. Perhaps stronger.

I'm unsympathetic to all four parties in those two equations! But I don't think it's the degree of sympathy with which one regards them that makes them similar or dissimilar. Balance of power put CoS and Paul, not Jones and Paul, in one part of the parallel. And flow of funds puts Stormfront and Jones, not Stormfront and CoS, on the other.

On review, I probably couldn't have put that less clearly. My point is: The Paul-Stormfront association and the Jones-Scientology (with Breeding intermediary) association are qualitatively different from one another, owing to power and money differentials.

It is the cliched cui bono question. However smooth Breeding's video patter is, insofar as CoS front groups sell his book, if Jones gives him free promotion, CoS clearly either does profit, or, at a minimum, its chances of profit increase. Whereas if Jones gets anything beyond a guest who gives good video, there's no evidence of it.

With Paul-Stormfront, on the other hand, it's obvious that both sides are beneficiaries and in what way: straight-up quid pro quo exchange of cash for influence.

So...they're, you know, just different.

[marmot]

I'm sorry, but Alex Jones is far far far from being sympathetic to Scientology! Grief!

[slow_dazzle]

It has come to our attention that Alex Jones has repudiated having any membership with RSICC. He stated on an April 25, 2006 radio show (about 35-40 minutes in) that he never agreed to membership, but that he was inducted absent of his knowledge or consent..

That is not true.

I spoke with Alex by phone back in December, 2001, and he like the idea of what we were doing, and he agreed to be listed as a member. We modified his membership to "Honorary" in March, 2002, due to his lack of participation in the decision-making process. He was notified of this profile page.

I've never been contacted by Alex Jones requesting removal of this profile, or resignation from membership.

It is worth reading the information in the left hand frame of the web page.

link

[elfismiles]

Prison Planet / Black Iron Prison - Hubbard / Dick

I know there are much more informed Dickheads on this list than I ... so can some of you perhaps clear up whether the idea of a prison planet, black iron prison has roots further back than Hubbard? I know PKD's paradigms were largely Gnosticly informed and so I wonder if Alex Jones' prison planet is more from a that perspective than from a CoS/Hubbard avenue.

Waking Life is a PKD inspired movie and even ends with a scene where the director specifically cites Dick.

The direction this line is going makes me wonder if the Collins brothers have been discussed (or are posters) here at RI. Time for me to hit that search function again.

Paul Collins and Phillip D. Collins
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Commentary/Collins.php

The Ascendancy of the Scientific Dictatorship: An Examination of Epistemic Autocracy, from the 19th to the 21st Century
http://www.amazon.com/Ascendancy-Scient ... 0595311644

SMiles

[theeKultleeder]

I don't much dig the thesis that scientology started out as a mind control op. Hubbard was a mixed bag of grifter and mad genius - if he was a Dungeons and Dragon character his alignment would be chaotic neutral tending towards lawful evil. His early works are often brilliant and very anti-authority. He didn't like cops or the IRS and often made examples of them: "Cops are stuck on 'stop'" and "The IRS stimulates an old implant, you see, the Marcabs used to install 'terror stomach' into its citizens, so every time the tax collector called they would get sick to their stomachs and obey."

He "prevaricated" as they say, and plainly often made it up as he went along, but he had genuine insight into some arcane areas of the psyche. He both revealed that and used it to his advantage simultaneously. Hubbard, in the 1950s (the time of the Manchurian Candidate) played up the mind control angle big time, and in fact the basic old dianetic auditing procedure done without an emeter is a pretty good technique for abreacting trauma, maybe even purposefully installed mind control trauma. The original Auditor's Code (the old unaltered one) is a sound set of principles that any type of counselor would do well in heeding.

One of the main rules for the old time auditors: "Don't evaluate for the preclear." This meant not to tell people what to remember or to suggest how to remember and not to judge what the "pre-clear" (dianetic client) was remembering; an auditor "simply listened."

As the group grew more cultish Hubbard developed an inner circle and began teaching them the "conspiracy mythology" that is at the heart of scientology politics. We are all familiar with the anti-psychologist stance, but it's origins lie in the "research" Hubbard did revealing to the world that modern psychology was a product of Nazi experimentation. Scientology under Hubbard was one of the first substantial groups to make a stink about electroshock. As much as it was spun for political reasons, it has a humanitarian undertone to it.

It might be stated that early scientology was anti-mind-control.

I've said enough sympathetic words for - it is best to remember that it is a complicated story and that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should someone reading this decide to seek "auditing" either in the church or the freezone; both are way too compromised at this point to be considered safe.

If you want to see what an intelligent occultist exposed to freezone scientology ideas can do with them, check out the Ghost Danse articles by a fellow calling himself Ouran.


******************


As far as Jones/Scientology: if he quotes and supports a writer who has concrete links to the Church itself, we should be very suspicious. After all, Jones is a conspiracy theorist, so if he is pretending to be unaware of the issues surrounding the cult, we can be sure he is prevaricating.

[theeKultleeder]

Oh, I wanted to add that there is a definite gnostic strain in scientology, especially in the freezone. They have an elaborate cosmology of prior universes, each earlier one more subtle and "spiritual" than the next.

[compared2what?]

Prison Planet / Black Iron Prison - Hubbard / Dick

I know there are much more informed Dickheads on this list than I ... so can some of you perhaps clear up whether the idea of a prison planet, black iron prison has roots further back than Hubbard?

Based on a brief review of randomly acquired knowledge as it appeared in the card catalog of my mind while still having my first cup of cofee (in other words, don't take it to the bank) -- the concept of earth as a prison is present in at least embryonic form in just about every culture in the archaeological record that had both a religious cosmology and prisons.

But....and this is really heavily qualified as a very provisional statement, because "examples occurring to me at the moment" are not exactly the best historical basis on which to hang your hat -- I don't think "prison" could have had the same connotation it has in Hubbard/Dick until much more recently, at least in the west. However geographically, temporally and culturally far-flung their influences, they were both (like Mark Bolan!) Twentieth Century Boys, and the genius whose thinking utterly transcends the cultural assumptions of his/her time and place is rare indeed -- and the foundations of necessary class and economic conditions for "prison" as we think of it (a fully institutionalized part of a fully institutionalized society; the unique and absolute value of the human individual, etc.) don't really get started until the late-ish Middle Ages. I'm going to guess 11th Century. (Adding, for even more CYA purposes: Give or take a few hundred years.)

But if the concept of a being who is held in or born into captivity on earth (as opposed to prison on earth) for some broadly punitive reason is not at least a narrative feature in the mythology of, as noted above, pretty much every belief system that recognized a planetary system as a planetary system, I can't think of an example.

Which doesn't mean there isn't one. Just that I can't think of it. For instance, I can't remember if Zoroastrianism even had a cosmology, per se, although logic suggests it must have.