7,000 years older than Stonehenge

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7,000 years older than Stonehenge

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:39 pm

Before cities, before farming...

7,000 years older than Stonehenge: the site that stunned archaeologists

Circles of elaborately carved stones from about 9,500BC predate even agriculture

Nicholas Birch in Istanbul

The Guardian, Wednesday April 23 2008

As a child, Klaus Schmidt used to grub around in caves in his native Germany in the hope of finding prehistoric paintings. Thirty years later, a member of the German Archaeological Institute, he found something infinitely more important: a temple complex almost twice as old as anything comparable on the planet.

"This place is a supernova," said Schmidt, standing under a lone tree on a windswept hilltop 35 miles north of Turkey's border with Syria. "Within a minute of first seeing it I knew I had two choices: go away and tell nobody, or spend the rest of my life working here."

Behind him are the first folds of the Anatolian plateau. Ahead, the Mesopotamian plain, like a dust-coloured sea, stretches south hundreds of miles. The stone circles of Gobekli Tepe are just in front, hidden under the brow of the hill.

Compared with Stonehenge, they are humble affairs. None of the circles excavated (four out of an estimated 20) are more than 30 metres across. T-shaped pillars like the rest, two five-metre stones tower at least a metre above their peers. What makes them remarkable are their carved reliefs of boars, foxes, lions, birds, snakes and scorpions, and their age. Dated at around 9,500BC, these stones are 5,500 years older than the first cities of Mesopotamia, and 7,000 years older than Stonehenge.

Never mind wheels or writing, the people who erected them did not even have pottery or domesticated wheat. They lived in villages. But they were hunters, not farmers.

"Everybody used to think only complex, hierarchical civilisations could build such monumental sites, and that they only came about with the invention of agriculture", said Ian Hodder, a Stanford University professor of anthropology who has directed digs at Catalhoyuk, Turkey's best known neolithic site, since 1993. "Gobekli changes everything. It's elaborate, it's complex and it is pre-agricultural. That alone makes the site one of the most important archaeological finds in a very long time."

With only a fraction of the site opened up after a decade of excavation, Gobekli Tepe's significance to the people who built it remains unclear. Some think it was the centre of a fertility rite, with the two tall stones at the centre of each circle representing a man and woman. It is a theory the tourist board in nearby Urfa has taken up with alacrity. Visit the Garden of Eden, its brochures trumpet; see Adam and Eve.

Schmidt is sceptical. He agrees Gobekli Tepe may well be "the last flowering of a semi-nomadic world that farming was just about to destroy", and points out that if it is in near perfect condition today, it is because those who built it buried it soon after under tons of soil, as though its wild animal-rich world had lost all meaning.

But the site is devoid of the fertility symbols found at other neolithic sites, and the T-shaped columns, while clearly semi-human, are sexless.

Gods

"I think here we are face to face with the earliest representation of gods," said Schmidt, patting one of the biggest stones. "They have no eyes, no mouths, no faces. But they have arms and they have hands. They are makers.

"In my opinion, the people who carved them were asking themselves the biggest questions of all. What is this universe? Why are we here?"

With no evidence of houses or graves near the stones, Schmidt believes the hilltop was a site of pilgrimage for communities within a radius of roughly a hundred miles. The tallest stones all face south-east, as if scanning plains that are scattered with contemporary sites in many ways no less remarkable than Gobekli Tepe.

Last year, for instance, French archaeologists working at Djade al-Mughara in northern Syria uncovered the oldest mural ever found. "Two square metres of geometric shapes, in red, black and white - like a Paul Klee painting", said Eric Coqueugniot, of the University of Lyon, who is leading the excavation.

Coqueugniot describes Schmidt's hypothesis that Gobekli Tepe was a meeting point for rituals as "tempting", given its spectacular position. But surveys of the region were still in their infancy. "Tomorrow, somebody might find somewhere even more dramatic."

Vecihi Ozkaya, the director of a dig at Kortiktepe, 120 miles east of Urfa, doubts the thousands of stone pots he has found since 2001 in hundreds of 11,500-year-old graves quite qualify as that. But his excitement fills his austere office at Dicle University in Diyarbakir.

"Look at this", he said, pointing at a photo of an exquisitely carved sculpture showing an animal, half-human, half-lion. "It's a sphinx, thousands of years before Egypt. South-eastern Turkey, northern Syria - this region saw the wedding night of our civilisation."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/ ... ogy.turkey
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Some pictures from Gobekli Tepe

Postby barracuda » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:54 pm

The top image is a CGI concept, but the others, I believe, are photos from the site. Not quite devoid of sexual imagery, I would venture.

Image
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Postby stickdog99 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:23 pm

Hominid civilization is many thousands of years and perhaps tens of thousands of years older than currently recognized.

I believe a complete and thorough study of our oldest extent recorded writing would make this clear. So I can't help but wonder to whom Iraq's organized looters sold these pieces.
Last edited by stickdog99 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby stickdog99 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:20 pm

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Postby Stephen Morgan » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:34 pm

There is a false dichotomy maintained between nomadism and agriculturalism. People "before agriculture" didn't roam the steppe and know no home. They stuck in one area, if only because it's hard to move things a long way before the domestication of any large mammal. So it's hardly surprising some of them built themselves a sacred site.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat May 03, 2008 12:51 pm

The photos on the Fortean Times site are fascinating:

http://www.forteantimes.com/features/ar ... ained.html

It's striking that there appears to be not a single image of war or battle or earthly power (kingship) on any of those stones: just lovingly-detailed carvings of men, women and animals -- including scorpions and snakes, and not just creatures that can be hunted and eaten.

Image

in 1994, Klaus Schmidt came here, to begin excavations. “I was intrigued. The site already had emotional significance for the villagers,” he smiles. “The solitary tree on the highest hill is sacred. I thought we might be onto something”.
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Re: 7,000 years older than Stonehenge

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:38 am

Here are the closing lines of another article, from March 2009. What's remarkable is that, around 2,000 years after building and decorating their own "Temple in Eden", the people of Gobekli Tepe then deliberately buried the whole complex, an action that must have required months if not years of coordinated hard labour.

Why did they do it? I think this guy's explanation is plausible. It makes heartbreaking reading.

[...] Thus, when you put it all together, the evidence is persuasive. Gobekli Tepe is, indeed, a 'temple in Eden', built by our leisured and fortunate ancestors - people who had time to cultivate art, architecture and complex ritual, before the traumas of agriculture ruined their lifestyle, and devastated their paradise.

It's a stunning and seductive idea. Yet it has a sinister epilogue. Because the loss of paradise seems to have had a strange and darkening effect on the human mind.

A few years ago, archaeologists at nearby Cayonu unearthed a hoard of human skulls. They were found under an altar-like slab, stained with human blood.

No one is sure, but this may be the earliest evidence for human sacrifice: one of the most inexplicable of human behaviours and one that could have evolved only in the face of terrible societal stress.

Experts may argue over the evidence at Cayonu. But what no one denies is that human sacrifice took place in this region, spreading to Palestine, Canaan and Israel.

Archaeological evidence suggests that victims were killed in huge death pits, children were buried alive in jars, others roasted in vast bronze bowls.

These are almost incomprehensible acts, unless you understand that the people had learned to fear their gods, having been cast out of paradise. So they sought to propitiate the angry heavens.

This savagery may, indeed, hold the key to one final, bewildering mystery. The astonishing stones and friezes of Gobekli Tepe are preserved intact for a bizarre reason.

Long ago, the site was deliberately and systematically buried in a feat of labour every bit as remarkable as the stone carvings.

Around 8,000 BC, the creators of Gobekli turned on their achievement and entombed their glorious temple under thousands of tons of earth, creating the artificial hills on which that Kurdish shepherd walked in 1994.


No one knows why Gobekli was buried. Maybe it was interred as a kind of penance: a sacrifice to the angry gods, who had cast the hunters out of paradise. Perhaps it was for shame at the violence and bloodshed that the stone-worship had helped provoke.

Whatever the answer, the parallels with our own era are stark. As we contemplate a new age of ecological turbulence, maybe the silent, sombre, 12,000-year-old stones of Gobekli Tepe are trying to speak to us, to warn us, as they stare across the first Eden we destroyed.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z0gYdN577Q
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Re: 7,000 years older than Stonehenge

Postby chiggerbit » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:41 pm

There's at least one pyramid in Mexico that was totally covered up with dirt. When I saw it back in the sixties, the archeologists were saying that it had been covered to hide it from invaders. Can't remember the name of it. There's a church on top of it.
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Re: 7,000 years older than Stonehenge

Postby tazmic » Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:17 pm

"So how did Fertile Crescent peoples lose that big lead? The short answer is ecological suicide: They inadvertently destroyed the environmental resources on which their society depended. Just as the region's rise wasn't due to any special virtue of its people, its fall wasn't due to any special blindness on their part. Instead, they had the misfortune to be living in an extremely fragile environment, which, because of its low rainfall, was particularly susceptible to deforestation.

When you clear a forest in a high-rainfall tropical area, new trees grow up to a height of 15 feet within a year; in a dry area like the Fertile Crescent, regeneration is much slower. And when you add to the equation grazing by sheep and goats, new trees stand little chance. Deforestation led to soil erosion, and irrigation agriculture led to salinization, by releasing salt buried deep in the ground and by adding salt through irrigation water. After centuries of degradation, areas of Iraq that formerly supported productive irrigation agriculture are today salt pans where nothing grows."
- http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20030720&slug=civilization20

"They took their agricultural practices with them and interbred with the hunter-gatherers whom they subsequently came in contact with while perpetuating their farming practices. This supports several prior archaeological studies which had arrived at the same conclusion.

Consequently contemporary in-situ peoples absorbed the agricultural way of life of those early migrants who ventured out of the Fertile Crescent. This is contrary to the suggestion that the spread of agriculture disseminated out of the Fertile Crescent by way of sharing of knowledge. Instead the view now supported by a preponderance of the evidence is that it occurred by actual migration out of the region, coupled with subsequent interbreeding with indigenous local populations whom the migrants came in contact with."
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertile_Crescent


Together with the Daily Mail article ('These are almost incomprehensible acts, unless you understand that the people had learned to fear their gods, having been cast out of paradise. So they sought to propitiate the angry heavens.'), this paints the rather ugly picture of a slightly confused bunch of human sacrificing ex hunter gatherers, leaving their ruined lands behind, and unwittingly(presumably) teaching the people they met how to do the same!

Literally sowing their forbidden knowledge...


However, transitional origins remain uncertain:

"There are several competing (but not mutually exclusive) theories as to the factors that drove populations to take up agriculture. The most prominent of these are:

The Oasis Theory, originally proposed by Raphael Pumpelly in 1908, popularized by Vere Gordon Childe in 1928 and summarised in Childe's book Man Makes Himself., maintains that as the climate got drier, communities contracted to oases where they were forced into close association with animals, which were then domesticated together with planting of seeds. It has little support now because climate data for the time does not support the theory.

The Hilly Flanks hypothesis, proposed by Robert Braidwood in 1948, suggests that agriculture began in the hilly flanks of the Taurus and Zagros mountains, where the climate was not drier as Childe had believed, and fertile land supported a variety of plants and animals amenable to domestication.

The Feasting model by Brian Hayden suggests that agriculture was driven by ostentatious displays of power, such as giving feasts, to exert dominance. This required assembling large quantities of food, which drove agricultural technology.

The Demographic theories proposed by Carl Sauer and adapted by Lewis Binford and Kent Flannery posit an increasingly sedentary population that expanded up to the carrying capacity of the local environment and required more food than could be gathered. Various social and economic factors helped drive the need for food.

The evolutionary/intentionality theory, developed by David Rindos and others, views agriculture as an evolutionary adaptation of plants and humans. Starting with domestication by protection of wild plants, it led to specialization of location and then full-fledged domestication.

Ronald Wright's book and Massey Lecture Series A Short History of Progress makes a case for the development of agriculture coinciding with an increasingly stable climate. The case was extended to current issues of global warming/climate change presenting the thought that perhaps a major effect of increased CO2 levels in the atmosphere could very well be a shift to a less stable and more unpredictable climate. Such a shift could impact agriculture in profound ways.

The postulated Younger Dryas impact event, claimed to be in part responsible for megafauna extinction, and which ended the last ice age, could have provided circumstances that required the evolution of agricultural societies for humanity to survive. The agrarian revolution itself is a reflection of typical overpopulation by certain species following initial events during extinction eras; this overpopulation itself ultimately propagates the extinction event."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic_Revolution

Okay, that's enough wiki :o
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Re: 7,000 years older than Stonehenge

Postby Bruce Dazzling » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:29 pm

Image

Could the bottom center image be an ouroboros?

Image
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Re: 7,000 years older than Stonehenge

Postby justdrew » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:35 pm

By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
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Re: 7,000 years older than Stonehenge

Postby tazmic » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:42 pm

Nice link JustDrew.

An early period of generally peaceful social conditions is documented in prehistory, but with a major shift towards patriarchal-authoritarian and decidedly violent social conditions across the Saharasian region after a major climate-shift from wet grassland-forest conditions towards harsh desert conditions at c.5000-4000 BC.

From the wiki, again...

The end of the glacial period brought more rain to the Sahara, from about 8000 BC to 6000 BC......By the 5th millennium BC, the peoples who inhabited what is now called Nubia, were full participants in the "agricultural revolution," living a settled lifestyle with domesticated plants and animals.......By around 3400 BC, the monsoon retreated south to approximately where it is today

It would seem that the agricultural revolution began long before the natural desertification of the Saharan region, and so presumably also before the 'violent patriarchal authoritarian, sex-repressive and child-abusive behaviors' consequently spread around the world from there according to DeMeo.

I wonder how this fits with the Gobekli Tepe story? It would seem that in africa it wasn't the 'traumas of agriculture' in themselves that lead to 'the end', but the conditions that changed sufficiently so that their way of life was no longer sustainable.

Does DeMeo give any clue as to why the authoritarian patriarchal response was necessary, or if it were inevitable, or indeed, related to sedentary agriculture??
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Re: 7,000 years older than Stonehenge

Postby justdrew » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:57 pm

tazmic wrote:Nice link JustDrew.

An early period of generally peaceful social conditions is documented in prehistory, but with a major shift towards patriarchal-authoritarian and decidedly violent social conditions across the Saharasian region after a major climate-shift from wet grassland-forest conditions towards harsh desert conditions at c.5000-4000 BC.

From the wiki, again...

The end of the glacial period brought more rain to the Sahara, from about 8000 BC to 6000 BC......By the 5th millennium BC, the peoples who inhabited what is now called Nubia, were full participants in the "agricultural revolution," living a settled lifestyle with domesticated plants and animals.......By around 3400 BC, the monsoon retreated south to approximately where it is today

It would seem that the agricultural revolution began long before the natural desertification of the Saharan region, and so presumably also before the 'violent patriarchal authoritarian, sex-repressive and child-abusive behaviors' consequently spread around the world from there according to DeMeo.

I wonder how this fits with the Gobekli Tepe story? It would seem that in africa it wasn't the 'traumas of agriculture' in themselves that lead to 'the end', but the conditions that changed sufficiently so that their way of life was no longer sustainable.

Does DeMeo give any clue as to why the authoritarian patriarchal response was necessary, or if it were inevitable, or indeed, related to sedentary agriculture??


there's this: from here
"Famine and starvation is a severe trauma from which survivors rarely escape unscathed. A lot of people die, families are split apart, and babies and children are often abandoned, and suffer enormously. Starvation affects surviving children in an emotionally severe manner. They shrink from the exhausting heat and thirst, emotionally withdraw from the painful world, and simultaneously suffer a severe stunting of the entire brain and nervous system due to protein-calorie malnutrition. Even if such starved children later get all the food and water they want, they are deeply scarred in an emotional-neurological manner which forever changes their behavior - specifically, there is an implanted inhibition of any impulse of a pleasure-seeking, outward-reaching nature, and a discomfort with deeper forms of body-pleasure, in both maternal-infant or male-female expressions. Additionally, the child's view of the mother, who could not protect or feed the child during the famine period, is thereafter colored with suspicion and anger. These attitudes and behaviors are deeply protoplasmic in nature, and are passed on to ensuing generations no matter what the climate, by social institutions which reflect the character structure of the average individual at any given period of time."
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Re: 7,000 years older than Stonehenge

Postby barracuda » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:05 pm

tazmic wrote:Does DeMeo give any clue as to why the authoritarian patriarchal response was necessary, or if it were inevitable, or indeed, related to sedentary agriculture??


Interesting question. Could it be that when writing became a necessity due to the record keeping of argriculture, creation via words (John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word...") took dominance from creation of the womb, and the mysteries of the matriarchy lost their power? Or did control of the surplus food become a matter of conflict beyond the abilities of the women to handle? Or did early marshalled armies of men fed by these surpluses destroy the priestesses of the old ways to install their own gods?
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Re: 7,000 years older than Stonehenge

Postby justdrew » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:19 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_glacial_period

glacial maximum was 18,000 years ago, with end at ~10,000. So it was a rapid retreat of the glaciers. This would have inundated large areas that had been land during the glacial maximum, when sea levels fell significantly. Take a look at all the land lost just in this region: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundaland

lots of people would have been on the move. Gobekli Tepe was probably intentionally buried in an effort to preserve it from destruction. the good news: it worked! :P
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